Flacco Won't Be Respected Until He Does It W/o Rice

[mgridda]

From what I've heard from fans of other teams who don't watch Ravens games every week, Flacco made a first impression on the NFL of being a Checkdown King. It may not be true last year when he was only behind Peyton Manning in the most deep balls in the NFL. It may not be true at all, but the first impressions people got lingered. Stat-heads who saw Ray Rice posting an ungodly amount of receptions came to this conclusion. And Rich Eisen loves Ray Rice. He likes the Ray Rice Running/Receiving/Rutgers/Ravens/Rut-Roh aliteration. That first year, Ray Rice made a lot of guys miss and people would see Joe Flacco on their highlight reels and TV screen, but he'd just be the guy throwing a little 5 yard pass to Rice and Rice would be working his third-leg magic picking up 20-40 YAC in with his offensive wizardry.

Rice and Flacco came into the league both in 2008. So far their fates have been linked. And Rice is an extremely talented runningback. He's also a guy who has been a top-5 preseason fantasy player for the past 2 years. Flacco is usually way down there. When people see the Ravens offense, they think of Ray Rice and not Joe Flacco.

I've said it before but I'm pretty sure Flacco won't be extremely respected by analysts and commentators/cement his legacy around the league until:

1) Ray Rice is injured, the Ravens have no other real running game and Flacco still produces elite numbers and takes the Ravens to an 11-5 - 14-2 season and a deep playoff run (or a SB if he wants to do it like Aaron Rodgers in 2010).
2) Flacco gets injured early in the season put on IR, a respectable QB comes in to replace him (Bulger-esque) and the Ravens offense tanks, everything goes wrong, the Ravens lose most games, and end up with a high draft pick etc.

In reality, people point out to the Ravens having a great defense and a good running game too often. Kyle Boller and Steve McNair had both those things for five years and couldn't get anywhere near where Flacco got the last three years. He has more wins than any QB not named Peyton Manning in the last 3 years. Is our defense better than the primes of Ray and Ed? Is our running game better than when Jamal Lewis ran for 2,000?

Or does it all just mean that Kyle Boller was that bad...

Regardless, even if Ray Rice is out for just one game against a top opponent (New England, Pittsburgh, Jets, Atlanta, Green Bay, Philadelphia) and Joe Flacco plays well and wins that game without his rushing attack, I think it'll go a long way to demonstrate his true value and worth. It would probably help (hence why, top opponent) if it happens in a primetime game. Those SNF/MNF games are so crucial to molding public opinion, it's ridiculous.

And then after that we'll start seeing the Pro Bowls and the All-Pros coming in droves.

[Ravenseconbeast]

That or, we can just care less what media has to say.

And last thing I want to see is Ray Rice getting injured.

[theFRANCHISE]

Does it really matter who a player has around him if he finds success, though? Results are results. Football [i]is[/i] a team sport, after all. If a player isn't utilizing all the weapons he has at his disposal (including Rice, in Flacco's case), then what good is having such an arsenal?

If anything, I think Flacco would be criticized [i]more[/i] for [i]not[/i] getting the ball to Rice since Rice is a proven playmaker.

[Irish Raven]

It's a well written thread but I can't help but think of ; so what?

Just win, who cares what other fans think

It doesn't matter how you do it, Superbowl winners have all used different schemes and tactics.
Results are all that matters, not worrying if people approve and what public opinion is or how do we sway it on a primetime game.

We have a playmaker in Rice, just give him the ball

Probowl is just a popularity contest and the best way to get respect from analysts is just win, not worry over winning pretty.

[mgridda]

Great point guys. And I think teams have gameplanned to take away Ray Rice completely before. How did that work out? Imagine if a team shadowed Ray Rice with a good cornerback all the time and the Ravens couldn't get the ground game running.

Could Flacco throw the ball 50 times a game and lead drives down the field all alone? That question is part of why I'm so glad we went out and got Evans/Smith/Doss. We can actually line up in a 5 WR set (Evans/Reed/Doss/Boldin/Smith) and really attack teams vertically. But boy did those 2 TEs work out for us, huh?

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

People who dismiss Flacco as a 'game manager' or 'Captain Checkdown' as I've heard him called are not worth debating with. People who watch the Ravens will know that Flacco is not reliant on Rice to boost his stats to make him look good. Plus, I'd rather see Flacco check down to Rice for a short gain than force a throw to someone else which could get picked or wait even longer for someone to come open and get sacked because of it.

However, like Franny said, it is just getting the ball to your best playmaker and letting him do what he does best. No undue disrespect to Boldin, Evans or the rest of our WR/TE corps but Rice is currently our most dangerous weapon because of the mismatches he creates and his ability to turn short/no gains into first downs or more.

[Ravens549]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1315989380' post='790679']
That or, we can just care less what media has to say.

And last thing I want to see is Ray Rice getting injured.
[/quote]
Exactly!
Why so many threads about Flacco doesn't get respect, Ravens don't get respect...who cares exactly? Lets just win another game.

[Alexir]

Phillip Rivers had LT and he was still getting credit....

[H8R]

I have indigestion, but without Tums... I'm nothing.

[3-4 Assault]

How stupid are people? No respect for Joe until he has no quality skill-position players? wut?

I'm so sick of these Flacco-Haters.

Montana / Young had Rice
Manning had Harrison / Wayne

This is so stupid my head hurts.

[ravensfan160]

If you are going criticize a QB for taking an easy dump off for a first down than I guess you should also criticize a QB for throwing deep to a wide open receiver. After all it can't be too easy you know or what's the point. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/wink.png[/img]

[Bishop]

Peyton manning/ Kurt Warner Marshall Faulk, Joe Montana and Roger Craig, Phillip rivers and sproles, Brady and drop off receiver welker. No way in he'll am I buying this one Joe Flacco does not have to apologize for his favorite target or his weapons. To hell with opinions we don't need Joe to be a top 5 qb by others opinions, we just need him to run our offense efficiently and effectively. Let the haters hate. That's what they do.

[edreedfromtheu]

Everyone knows I'm not Flacco's biggest fan, but I can't agree with really ANY of this proposition.

Flacco was passing the ball all over the field Sunday. And if the entire team, including Flacco, plays like they did Sunday... the rest of the season and postseason and Super Bowl should be proof that Flacco has finally "made it."

[1/28/01]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1316007615' post='790771']
Everyone knows I'm not Flacco's biggest fan, but I can't agree with really ANY of this proposition.
Flacco was passing the ball all over the field Sunday.  And if the entire team, including Flacco, plays like they did Sunday... the rest of the season and postseason and Super Bowl should be proof that [b]Flacco has finally "made it."[/b]
[/quote]
While I appreciate the attempt at a non-critical post about Flacco from you, he already proved this to most of us. His progression over the first 3 years was proof enough, but whatever.....

[I AM LEGEND]

This has to be one the most stupid things I've ever heard...

So in that case..

Ben wont be respected till he does it without a top ranked defense

Brady won't be respected until he does it without B.B.

Aaron Rodgers won't be respected until he does it without the majority of his snaps in the spread

Since when did Flaccos success become related to Ray Rice?

If anything the argument should be Flacco won't be respected until Ray and Ed leave and even that's kind of a reach

And this is coming from me...I'm not even a Flacco supporter like that

[I AM LEGEND]

Wasn't Rice basically our 3rd running back in 08 when Flacco made it the furthest he's ever went in the NFL...

[berad]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1316008017' post='790778']
Wasn't Rice basically our 3rd running back in 08 when Flacco made it the furthest he's ever went in the NFL...
[/quote]

I was going to say something to this effect. Or, last year, when the entire running game was one of the least effective in the league... we still won 12 games.

I'm not going to wish for anyone to get injured just so the darkest of trolls will be proven wrong. Great QBs have great players around them. Kurt Warner was tossing it up to perhaps the greatest trio of playmakers of all time - Holt, Bruce, and Faulk - and no one questioned him. He stank with the Giants but, lo and behold, once he went to Arizona and was paired up with Boldin and Fitzgerald he didn't look too shabby.

[darklight1216]

I don't seem to recall Flacco getting alot of credit when his main receiver was a one armed 35 year old.


As the saying goes: haters gonna hate.

[Natty Boh]

Yeah those people just won't stop. Lets just take away Rice, Boldin, Evans, and heck...the entire O-Line while we are at it and let Joe do his thing.

[PurpleCorsair]

Reading this title I thought of another good RB/QB combo, so lets replace our combo with that combo and see if this line of thought is ridiculous...

Kurt Warner won't be respected until he does it without Faulk.

See how absurd this is?

[PuRock]

Why must we find a way to play this respect card over and over.

Trent Dilfer never got respect but he has a Super Bowl ring. Manning never gets respect but he has a Super Bowl ring. I just want the Ravens to get a Super Bowl ring. As for the respect, WHO CARES!?!

Everybody is entitled to their opinions. I don't need other people to 'respect' Joe to validate the way I feel about him.

[FerrariFan87]

Just when I thought I'd heard it all...

[upanddown85]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1315989046' post='790678']
From what I've heard from fans of other teams who don't watch Ravens games every week, Flacco made a first impression on the NFL of being a Checkdown King. It may not be true last year when he was only behind Peyton Manning in the most deep balls in the NFL. It may not be true at all, but the first impressions people got lingered. Stat-heads who saw Ray Rice posting an ungodly amount of receptions came to this conclusion. And Rich Eisen loves Ray Rice. He likes the Ray Rice Running/Receiving/Rutgers/Ravens/Rut-Roh aliteration. That first year, Ray Rice made a lot of guys miss and people would see Joe Flacco on their highlight reels and TV screen, but he'd just be the guy throwing a little 5 yard pass to Rice and Rice would be working his third-leg magic picking up 20-40 YAC in with his offensive wizardry.

Rice and Flacco came into the league both in 2008. So far their fates have been linked. And Rice is an extremely talented runningback. He's also a guy who has been a top-5 preseason fantasy player for the past 2 years. Flacco is usually way down there. When people see the Ravens offense, they think of Ray Rice and not Joe Flacco.

I've said it before but I'm pretty sure Flacco won't be extremely respected by analysts and commentators/cement his legacy around the league until:

1) Ray Rice is injured, the Ravens have no other real running game and Flacco still produces elite numbers and takes the Ravens to an 11-5 - 14-2 season and a deep playoff run (or a SB if he wants to do it like Aaron Rodgers in 2010).
2) Flacco gets injured early in the season put on IR, a respectable QB comes in to replace him (Bulger-esque) and the Ravens offense tanks, everything goes wrong, the Ravens lose most games, and end up with a high draft pick etc.

In reality, people point out to the Ravens having a great defense and a good running game too often. Kyle Boller and Steve McNair had both those things for five years and couldn't get anywhere near where Flacco got the last three years. He has more wins than any QB not named Peyton Manning in the last 3 years. Is our defense better than the primes of Ray and Ed? Is our running game better than when Jamal Lewis ran for 2,000?

Or does it all just mean that Kyle Boller was that bad...

Regardless, even if Ray Rice is out for just one game against a top opponent (New England, Pittsburgh, Jets, Atlanta, Green Bay, Philadelphia) and Joe Flacco plays well and wins that game without his rushing attack, I think it'll go a long way to demonstrate his true value and worth. It would probably help (hence why, top opponent) if it happens in a primetime game. Those SNF/MNF games are so crucial to molding public opinion, it's ridiculous.

And then after that we'll start seeing the Pro Bowls and the All-Pros coming in droves.
[/quote]


you need stop hanging out with these dump people. the way they saying like OFFENSE won't be respected with out DEFENSE, or DEFENSE won't be respected with out OFFENSE.or QB won't be respected with out WR. or MJ won't be respected with out other good player. just tell these dump people. most sports are a team sport. football need a lot good player to be a good team.is not 1 player sport. anyway u need to stop listen to those dump people

[Crabcakes&Football]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1315989046' post='790678']
From what I've heard from fans of other teams who don't watch Ravens games every week, Flacco made a first impression on the NFL of being a Checkdown King. It may not be true last year when he was only behind Peyton Manning in the most deep balls in the NFL. It may not be true at all, but the first impressions people got lingered. Stat-heads who saw Ray Rice posting an ungodly amount of receptions came to this conclusion. And Rich Eisen loves Ray Rice. He likes the Ray Rice Running/Receiving/Rutgers/Ravens/Rut-Roh aliteration. That first year, Ray Rice made a lot of guys miss and people would see Joe Flacco on their highlight reels and TV screen, but he'd just be the guy throwing a little 5 yard pass to Rice and Rice would be working his third-leg magic picking up 20-40 YAC in with his offensive wizardry.

Rice and Flacco came into the league both in 2008. So far their fates have been linked. And Rice is an extremely talented runningback. He's also a guy who has been a top-5 preseason fantasy player for the past 2 years. Flacco is usually way down there. When people see the Ravens offense, they think of Ray Rice and not Joe Flacco.

I've said it before but I'm pretty sure Flacco won't be extremely respected by analysts and commentators/cement his legacy around the league until:

1) Ray Rice is injured, the Ravens have no other real running game and Flacco still produces elite numbers and takes the Ravens to an 11-5 - 14-2 season and a deep playoff run (or a SB if he wants to do it like Aaron Rodgers in 2010).
2) Flacco gets injured early in the season put on IR, a respectable QB comes in to replace him (Bulger-esque) and the Ravens offense tanks, everything goes wrong, the Ravens lose most games, and end up with a high draft pick etc.

In reality, people point out to the Ravens having a great defense and a good running game too often. Kyle Boller and Steve McNair had both those things for five years and couldn't get anywhere near where Flacco got the last three years. He has more wins than any QB not named Peyton Manning in the last 3 years. Is our defense better than the primes of Ray and Ed? Is our running game better than when Jamal Lewis ran for 2,000?

Or does it all just mean that Kyle Boller was that bad...

Regardless, even if Ray Rice is out for just one game against a top opponent (New England, Pittsburgh, Jets, Atlanta, Green Bay, Philadelphia) and Joe Flacco plays well and wins that game without his rushing attack, I think it'll go a long way to demonstrate his true value and worth. It would probably help (hence why, top opponent) if it happens in a primetime game. Those SNF/MNF games are so crucial to molding public opinion, it's ridiculous.

And then after that we'll start seeing the Pro Bowls and the All-Pros coming in droves.
[/quote]

Really, I'll take it. Sure it would be nice to see Joe get the respect he deserves, but as long as his success continues I'll take it. Rice is his best offensive weapon, why not get the ball to him? It works, I'll take it. Flacco is not seen as a QB who can carry a team because he's never had the opportunity to really carry a team. We are a very well balanced and healthy team, and again I'll take it.

[Dudeman]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1315990918' post='790685']
Great point guys. And I think teams have gameplanned to take away Ray Rice completely before. How did that work out? Imagine if a team shadowed Ray Rice with a good cornerback all the time and the Ravens couldn't get the ground game running.

Could Flacco throw the ball 50 times a game and lead drives down the field all alone? That question is part of why I'm so glad we went out and got Evans/Smith/Doss. We can actually line up in a 5 WR set (Evans/Reed/Doss/Boldin/Smith) and really attack teams vertically. But boy did those 2 TEs work out for us, huh?
[/quote]

The only defense I saw that really was able to smother Ray Rice was the Packers. But that being said we didn't have the down field vertical presence on the offense, and the line protection was sloppy at best in that game. Actually that game was an ugly game all around on BOTH sides, but I digress.

There are a few different kinds of football fans. Those who watch and attend the games. Those who play fantasy football, or those who follow certain players. Also not's not forget those who read about, and analyze games.

Obviously everyone is going to get a different understanding of how teams play by how they followed the game from these different vantage points. I equate this to watching from the upper deck, behind the bench, and down on the field. What I can tell you about this is simply that the stats don't lie. Some of the production actually does matter in the NFL, and the grand daddy of all stats is the win/loss column.

However, I can't help but feel like when you dissect football into the tiniest of parts that you end up missing the bigger picture.

Joe Flacco is an outstanding person first and foremost. The Ravens served our community well by bringing him into the fold. He hasn't let fame, fortune, or success get to his head, and to this point I firmly believe he wont bring scandal to this town either. Secondly, he is a heck of a quarterback, especially when you give him time to throw to open receivers. Every great QB manned a great offense which typically has a great running back. Every QB you can name has elite talent either at the O-line, Wr, Rb, and it could be some or all of the above.

[flynismo]

Haters gonna hate

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

Who was the running back when Peyton was in his first 4 years wasnt it Edgerrin James ??? Does that mean he is not a good QB., Some people are just idiots nothing you can really do about that.... lookin at you merrill hodge

[latenighthero]

I'm sick and tired of all of the people making us out to be these huge underdogs and how every disrespects us like a ginger step-child. It's garbage, this isn't friday night lights or some movie. Flacco has been getting a lot of respect and Florio pointed out that him and Ryan are equal at this point and if Flacco has a significantly better game than Ryan again next week then he would start to consider Flacco as a better QB than Ryan.

[latenighthero]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1315989046' post='790678']
From what I've heard from fans of other teams who don't watch Ravens games every week, Flacco made a first impression on the NFL of being a Checkdown King. It may not be true last year when he was only behind Peyton Manning in the most deep balls in the NFL. It may not be true at all, but the first impressions people got lingered. Stat-heads who saw Ray Rice posting an ungodly amount of receptions came to this conclusion. And Rich Eisen loves Ray Rice. He likes the Ray Rice Running/Receiving/Rutgers/Ravens/Rut-Roh aliteration. That first year, Ray Rice made a lot of guys miss and people would see Joe Flacco on their highlight reels and TV screen, but he'd just be the guy throwing a little 5 yard pass to Rice and Rice would be working his third-leg magic picking up 20-40 YAC in with his offensive wizardry.

Rice and Flacco came into the league both in 2008. So far their fates have been linked. And Rice is an extremely talented runningback. He's also a guy who has been a top-5 preseason fantasy player for the past 2 years. Flacco is usually way down there. When people see the Ravens offense, they think of Ray Rice and not Joe Flacco.

I've said it before but I'm pretty sure Flacco won't be extremely respected by analysts and commentators/cement his legacy around the league until:

1) Ray Rice is injured, the Ravens have no other real running game and Flacco still produces elite numbers and takes the Ravens to an 11-5 - 14-2 season and a deep playoff run (or a SB if he wants to do it like Aaron Rodgers in 2010).
2) Flacco gets injured early in the season put on IR, a respectable QB comes in to replace him (Bulger-esque) and the Ravens offense tanks, everything goes wrong, the Ravens lose most games, and end up with a high draft pick etc.

In reality, people point out to the Ravens having a great defense and a good running game too often. Kyle Boller and Steve McNair had both those things for five years and couldn't get anywhere near where Flacco got the last three years. He has more wins than any QB not named Peyton Manning in the last 3 years. Is our defense better than the primes of Ray and Ed? Is our running game better than when Jamal Lewis ran for 2,000?

Or does it all just mean that Kyle Boller was that bad...

Regardless, even if Ray Rice is out for just one game against a top opponent (New England, Pittsburgh, Jets, Atlanta, Green Bay, Philadelphia) and Joe Flacco plays well and wins that game without his rushing attack, I think it'll go a long way to demonstrate his true value and worth. It would probably help (hence why, top opponent) if it happens in a primetime game. Those SNF/MNF games are so crucial to molding public opinion, it's ridiculous.

And then after that we'll start seeing the Pro Bowls and the All-Pros coming in droves.
[/quote]
You're right. Who else is in with me to Whack Ray Rice before we play the Titans game this week? Or should we just hope for him to get hurt this week in practice?

Plug...

[JohnJohnson]

LOL, of course only people who haven't watched Ravens games would say things like this, because they haven't seen the awesomely thrown 10-30 yard receptions by Rice.