Now That The Ravens Are Down To The 53 Man Roster, What Would The Depth Chart Look Like?

[*kid_chaos100*]

I dont think anyone posted a post like this.. soooo.... please give your opinions on how this team would look after the cuts and the new roster....

P.S. Im sorry if I did not give my opinion on how the depth chart would look....

[Alexir]

I think it's pretty obvious minus Cornerback,IMO

[latenighthero]

Smith - Reed - Pollard/Zibby- Williams

McClain - Lewis - Johnson/Kruger

Suggs - Ngata - Cody - Redding

So Johnson and Pollard would be the starters with Zibby and Kruger rotating in for passing situations.

[latenighthero]

The offense is pretty obvious with Ricky Williams as the goal line back and Torrey and Tandon rotating as the 3rd WR.

[PuRock]

CB is interesting. Most of us would probably go with Smith/C Williams. But it'll be interesting who we go with game 1 against the Steelers. Will it be a youth movement, vet presence or a mix.

We are sort of damn if we do, damn if we don't for game 1. Long term it looks good.

[latenighthero]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1315188438' post='777367']
CB is interesting. Most of us would probably go with Smith/C Williams. But it'll be interesting who we go with game 1 against the Steelers. Will it be a youth movement, vet presence or a mix.

We are sort of damn if we do, damn if we don't for game 1. Long term it looks good.
[/quote]
I think Cary will be starting on one side and it looks like Webb will likely be matched up with Wallace, so I guess that leaves Jimmy as the 3rd guy or maybe they would rather have Carr as the 3rd guy? There's a lot of options thats for sure.

[The Raven]

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1315186567' post='777319']
Smith - Reed - Pollard/Zibby- Williams

McClain - Lewis - Johnson/Kruger

Suggs - Ngata - Cody - Redding

So Johnson and Pollard would be the starters with Zibby and Kruger rotating in for passing situations.
[/quote]

Except we don't run a 4-3...

Suggs - McClain - Ray - Johnson

Ngata - Cody - Redding

My depth chart

Flacco - Taylor - Cantwell (PS)

Leach - Mahaffey (PS)

Rice - Williams - Allen - Berry (PS)

McKinnie - Oher - Reid - Levoir

Yanda - Grubbs - Mattison - Levoir - Boren (PS)

Birk - Gurode - Mattison

Boldin - Evans - Doss - Reed - Smith - Williams

Dickson - Pitta - Wilson



Ngata - Jones/McPhee

Cody - McKinney - Hall (PS)

Redding - Jones/McPhee

Suggs - Kruger - Williams (PS)

Johnson - Kindle - McClellan

Lewis - McClain - Ellerbe - Phillips - Ayanbadejo

Reed - Zibby/Nakamura

Zibby - Pollard/Nakamura

Smith - Foxworth - Carr - Webb - Williams - Brown

KR - Williams - Webb

PR - Williams - Webb

[latenighthero]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1315193519' post='777497']

Except we don't run a 4-3...

Suggs - McClain - Ray - Johnson

Ngata - Cody - Redding

[/quote]
That's a common misconception, but we do indeed run a 4-3 base defense. Base defenses are becoming increasingly irrelevant in the current NFL, but our base defense is considered a 4-3, or at least it was last year and possibly before then too. I know that most fans believe we still operate a 3-4, but that's actually not true.

[The Raven]

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1315195238' post='777523']
That's a common misconception, but we do indeed run a 4-3 base defense. Base defenses are becoming increasingly irrelevant in the current NFL, [b]but our base defense is considered a 4-3[/b], or at least it was last year and possibly before then too. I know that most fans believe we still operate a 3-4, but that's actually not true.
[/quote]

Yes, because Terrence Cody is a 4-3 DT. JJ is fast enough to play OLB in a 4-3. While I totally agree that base defenses are becoming irrelevant, our base is a 3-4. If you watch the preseason games, you'd notice that a good amount of the game feature 4 LB standing up. I've seen Sugg stand up as a backer a good bit as well, a very rare sight. We could debate this til the world ends, but I believe Pagano has even said he runs a 3-4.

Also:

[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Player_Roster/Depth_Chart.aspx"]http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Player_Roster/Depth_Chart.aspx[/url]

[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Player_Roster.aspx"]http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Player_Roster.aspx[/url]

Looks at the depth chart and roster. Suggs is listed as a "Rush" in the depth chart, and an OLB in the roster. Not as a defensive end.

Who considers it a 4-3, other than yourself?

[latenighthero]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1315195826' post='777536']

Yes, because Terrence Cody is a 4-3 DT. JJ is fast enough to play OLB in a 4-3. While I totally agree that base defenses are becoming irrelevant, our base is a 3-4. If you watch the preseason games, you'd notice that a good amount of the game feature 4 LB standing up. I've seen Sugg stand up as a backer a good bit as well, a very rare sight. We could debate this til the world ends, but I believe Pagano has even said he runs a 3-4.

Also:

[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Player_Roster/Depth_Chart.aspx"]http://www.baltimore...epth_Chart.aspx[/url]

[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Player_Roster.aspx"]http://www.baltimore...yer_Roster.aspx[/url]

Looks at the depth chart and roster. Suggs is listed as a "Rush" in the depth chart, and an OLB in the roster. Not as a defensive end.

Who considers it a 4-3, other than yourself?
[/quote]
Sports Illustrated and Pro Football Focus. It's kind of a generally accepted thing.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

We run a 3-4 dude, have for a long time. Granted it is a hybrid but our base is a 3-4.

[joemak]

Yeah bro. we run a 3-4. Its pretty common knowledge. JJ wouldnt play OLB in the 4-3. He weighs like 280.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[b]Flacco, [/b]Tyrod
[b]Rice, [/b]Williams, Allen
[b]Leach[/b]
[b]Boldin, Evans[/b], Doss, Reed, Smith, Williams
[b]Dickson,[/b] Pitta, Wilson
[b]McKinnie,[/b] Levoir (even though I think the primary option if McKinnie goes down is Oher at LT, Reid at RT)
[b]Grubbs,[/b] Levoir, Mattison (maybe Gurode would be the primary option if Grubbs or Yanda are down)
[b]Birk, [/b]Gurode, Mattison
[b]Yanda, [/b]Levoir, Mattison
[b]Oher,[/b] Reid

[b]Redding,[/b] Jones/McPhee
[b]Ngata,[/b] Jones/McPhee
[b]Cody,[/b] McKinney, Ngata (in certain packages)
[b]JJ,[/b] Kindle, McAdoo
[b]McClain,[/b] Ellerbe
[b]Ray,[/b] Philips, Ayanbadejo
[b]Suggs, [/b]Kruger, McClellan
[b]Jimmy, Cary,[/b] Carr, Webb, Foxy, Brown
[b]Reed,[/b] Nakamura
[b]Pollard,[/b] Zibby

Cundiff
Koch
Cox
LaQuan Williams KR and maybe PR instead of Webb.,

[1/28/01]

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1315197998' post='777570']

Sports Illustrated and Pro Football Focus. It's kind of a generally accepted thing.
[/quote]
Its kind of a generally accepted thing that we run out of a base 3-4. Have for a LONG time!

[The Raven]

Wait, isn't PFF the same website that said Birk was the best center last year or somethin? Some real credibility there. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

And we all know about Flacco's haters at SI, the dudes at SI don't seem to know what they're talkin about.

[mhead66]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1315195826' post='777536']

Yes, because Terrence Cody is a 4-3 DT. JJ is fast enough to play OLB in a 4-3. While I totally agree that base defenses are becoming irrelevant, our base is a 3-4. If you watch the preseason games, you'd notice that a good amount of the game feature 4 LB standing up. I've seen Sugg stand up as a backer a good bit as well, a very rare sight. We could debate this til the world ends, but I believe Pagano has even said he runs a 3-4.

Also:

[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Player_Roster/Depth_Chart.aspx"]http://www.baltimore...epth_Chart.aspx[/url]

[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Player_Roster.aspx"]http://www.baltimore...yer_Roster.aspx[/url]

Looks at the depth chart and roster. Suggs is listed as a "Rush" in the depth chart, and an OLB in the roster. Not as a defensive end.

Who considers it a 4-3, other than yourself?
[/quote]
Not disagreeing with your points, but I find that depth chart link is interesting. They have Foxworth & Carr listed as starters, Jimmy & Webb as backups and Cary Williams as the 5th CB...

Why I point that out is: Last year, our Defense's biggest problem was lack of QB pressure. Every depth chart I've seen lists JJ as the LOLB starter, and Cody & Redding as DLinemen starters.

I know this is our base starter package for 1st downs, but I'm hoping that the coaches actively insert McPhee and Kruger/Kindle into the lineup on passing downs, and not simply consider them the 2nd string... Perhaps a hybrid defensive alignment with 2 DLinemen - Ngata & McPhee - and [b]both[/b] Kruger & Kindle rushing the passer on 3rd, in obvious passing situations (along with Suggs, of course).

Last year we tied Buffalo & Cincinnati for 27th in the NFL in sacks, with 27. JJ had 1.5 sacks in 16 games... If we're not blitzing either a corner, Pollard or an ILB, we need to bring 3 DLinemen + 2 OLBs.

[*kid_chaos100*]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1315193519' post='777497']

Except we don't run a 4-3...

Suggs - McClain - Ray - Johnson

Ngata - Cody - Redding

My depth chart

Flacco - Taylor - Cantwell (PS)

Leach - Mahaffey (PS)

Rice - Williams - Allen - Berry (PS)

McKinnie - Oher - Reid - Levoir

Yanda - Grubbs - Mattison - Levoir - Boren (PS)

Birk - Gurode - Mattison

Boldin - Evans - Doss - Reed - Smith - Williams

Dickson - Pitta - Wilson



Ngata - Jones/McPhee

Cody - McKinney - Hall (PS)

Redding - Jones/McPhee

Suggs - Kruger - Williams (PS)

Johnson - Kindle - McClellan

Lewis - McClain - Ellerbe - Phillips - Ayanbadejo

Reed - Zibby/Nakamura

Zibby - Pollard/Nakamura

Smith - Foxworth - Carr - Webb - Williams - Brown

KR - Williams - Webb

PR - Williams - Webb
[/quote]
What about Mcadoo? Where does he line up on DE/DL?

[The Raven]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1315228646' post='777676']
Not disagreeing with your points, but I find that depth chart link is interesting. They have Foxworth & Carr listed as starters, Jimmy & Webb as backups and Cary Williams as the 5th CB...

Why I point that out is: Last year, our Defense's biggest problem was lack of QB pressure. Every depth chart I've seen lists JJ as the LOLB starter, and Cody & Redding as DLinemen starters.

I know this is our base starter package for 1st downs, but I'm hoping that the coaches actively insert McPhee and Kruger/Kindle into the lineup on passing downs, and not simply consider them the 2nd string... Perhaps a hybrid defensive alignment with 2 DLinemen - Ngata & McPhee - and [b]both[/b] Kruger & Kindle rushing the passer on 3rd, in obvious passing situations (along with Suggs, of course).

Last year we tied Buffalo & Cincinnati for 27th in the NFL in sacks, with 27. JJ had 1.5 sacks in 16 games... If we're not blitzing either a corner, Pollard or an ILB, we need to bring 3 DLinemen + 2 OLBs.
[/quote]

The depth chart has yet to be updated since training camp started. It's been that way since PS game 1.

Agreed on all counts, but it'd be challenging to find a spot for Kindle, Kruger, Suggs, Ngata, and McPhee on third down at the same time. I guess we could have a four man front of kruger, suggs, ngata, and mcphee, with Kindle coming as a LB blitz off the edge?

[The Raven]

[quote name='*kid_chaos100*' timestamp='1315243167' post='777822']
What about Mcadoo? Where does he line up on DE/DL?
[/quote]

Oh crap, I kinda forgot about him...

Umm... I guess he can be the third rush. He's far too light to be a 3-4 DL, and I don't know if he can stop the run. I guess he can be the third rush. Idk if his coverage on runstopping is good enough to be a Sam backer.

[*kid_chaos100*]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1315243393' post='777826']

Oh crap, I kinda forgot about him...

Umm... I guess he can be the third rush. He's far too light to be a 3-4 DL, and I don't know if he can stop the run. I guess he can be the third rush. Idk if his coverage on runstopping is good enough to be a Sam backer.
[/quote]
ook...

[The Raven]

[quote name='*kid_chaos100*' timestamp='1315243687' post='777835']
ook...
[/quote]

You confused bud?

[mhead66]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1315243289' post='777824']

The depth chart has yet to be updated since training camp started. It's been that way since PS game 1.

Agreed on all counts, but it'd be challenging to find a spot for Kindle, Kruger, Suggs, Ngata, and McPhee on third down at the same time. I guess we could have a four man front of kruger, suggs, ngata, and mcphee, with Kindle coming as a LB blitz off the edge?
[/quote]
On obvious passing downs, the Steelers sometimes play a ONE DLineman formation - Aaron Smith or Keisel alone - with 6-7 guys just standing upright at the line of scrimmage... and the OLine has no idea who's coming. They'll send anywhere from 3-7...

I think we have the personnel to do something similar, maybe 2 Linemen - Ngata & McPhee - and Kindle, Suggs, Kruger, Ellerbe and Ray floating. Teams' QBs won't know who's coming or from where... Draw plays and screens are difficult to execute with that speed on the field, and any of the 5 LBs can drop into coverage.

It's all about pressure and organized chaos.

[The Raven]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1315243784' post='777838']
On obvious passing downs, the Steelers sometimes play a ONE DLineman formation - Aaron Smith or Keisel alone - with 6-7 guys just standing upright at the line of scrimmage... and the OLine has no idea who's coming. They'll send anywhere from 3-7...

I think we have the personnel to do something similar, maybe 2 Linemen - Ngata & McPhee - and Kindle, Suggs, Kruger, Ellerbe and Ray floating. Teams' QBs won't know who's coming or from where... Draw plays and screens are difficult to execute with that speed on the field, and any of the 5 LBs can drop into coverage.

It's all about pressure and organized chaos. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
[/quote]

That's an interesting idea, that sounds good to me.

[*kid_chaos100*]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1315243778' post='777837']

You confused bud?
[/quote]
O no... I was just thinking the same thing.. where should Mcaddo line up or go.... my bad...

[The Raven]

[quote name='*kid_chaos100*' timestamp='1315244195' post='777850']
O no... I was just thinking the same thing.. where should Mcaddo line up or go.... my bad...
[/quote]

You're good man. Dont sweat it.

[latenighthero]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1315226458' post='777663']
Its kind of a generally accepted thing that we run out of a base 3-4. Have for a LONG time!
[/quote]
"profootballfocus.com analyzed every game from last season and indentified 19 teams as operating a [b]4-3. [/b]"
The ravens are listed as one of those 19 squads and the quote is "Terrell Suggs dropped in coverage just 9% of the time". I believe I read on pro football focus as well that JJ only rushed the passer less than 10% of the snaps as well.

When I first approached this article I looked under 3-4 for us to be listed as well and I figured that they would prove that we didn't run a 3-4 much and that we really mostly ran a 4-3 instead because that's similar to what I read in a specific article about the Ravens defense on that site a month or 2 ago. The fact that SI chose these statistics to be the base of their special NFL preview issue makes me think that they are a pretty credible source of information.

This isn't an oppinion thing, it's a statistics thing. The stats say that we played a considerable amount more snaps as a 4-3 defense than as a 3-4 (It lists only Buffalo as going "back and forth [between 3-4 and 4-3]").

I know that we have a new Defensive co-ordinator but until it is proven otherwise in the regular season this year we are still considered a 4-3.

[latenighthero]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1315226712' post='777665']
Wait, isn't PFF the same website that said Birk was the best center last year or somethin? Some real credibility there. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

And we all know about Flacco's haters at SI, the dudes at SI don't seem to know what they're talkin about.
[/quote]
Ya they're the same dumb asses that picked us to win the AFC North this year.

As for the Ravens base defense, facts are facts. If you don't think that the fact that we played considerably more snaps last season as a 4-3 than a 3-4 means that we are a 4-3 defense then that's your opinion.

[latenighthero]

I couldn't find an article written that specifically said that we employ a 4-3 base defense, but if you look at this article is clearly outlines that Suggs is a 4-3 DE and Ngata is a 4-3 DT.

[url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/08/16/pff-preview-2011-baltimore-ravens/"]http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/08/16/pff-preview-2011-baltimore-ravens/[/url]

[The Raven]

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1315248879' post='777919']
"profootballfocus.com analyzed every game from last season and indentified 19 teams as operating a [b]4-3. [/b]"
[b]The ravens are listed as one of those 19 squads and the quote is "Terrell Suggs dropped in coverage just 9% of the time". I believe I read on pro football focus as well that JJ only rushed the passer less than 10% of the snaps as well.[/b]

When I first approached this article I looked under 3-4 for us to be listed as well and I figured that they would prove that we didn't run a 3-4 much and that we really mostly ran a 4-3 instead because that's similar to what I read in a specific article about the Ravens defense on that site a month or 2 ago. The fact that SI chose these statistics to be the base of their special NFL preview issue makes me think that they are a pretty credible source of information.

This isn't an oppinion thing, it's a statistics thing. The stats say that we played a considerable amount more snaps as a 4-3 defense than as a 3-4 (It lists only Buffalo as going "back and forth [between 3-4 and 4-3]").

I know that we have a new Defensive co-ordinator but until it is proven otherwise in the regular season this year we are still considered a 4-3.
[/quote]

By that logic, Demarcus Ware, Tamba Hali, Clay Matthews, James Harrison, etc are all DE's as well...
The only thing that makes us look like a 4-3 is Suggs' hand in the dirt. Sure alignment is similar at times as well, but Terrence Cody would die in a 4-3 D.

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1315249423' post='777933']
Ya they're the same dumb asses that picked us to win the AFC North this year.

As for the Ravens base defense, facts are facts. If you don't think that the fact that we played considerably more snaps last season as a 4-3 than a 3-4 means that we are a 4-3 defense then that's your opinion.
[/quote]

Show me facts. Not articles from some website that makes up their own stats. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1315250425' post='777948']
I couldn't find an article written that specifically said that we employ a 4-3 base defense, but if you look at this article is clearly outlines that Suggs is a 4-3 DE and Ngata is a 4-3 DT.

[url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/08/16/pff-preview-2011-baltimore-ravens/"]http://www.profootba...ltimore-ravens/[/url]
[/quote]

Really? Where on earth does it say Ngata is a 4-3 DT? It says he's a defensive tackle, but 4-3 is nowhere to be found... Very provocative... Before you counter this in any way, a DE in a 3-4 defense is basically, a DT. They spend a majority of their time at the 3, or 5 tech.

In addition, it clearly states in the article YOU provided that he is a defensive end by their own definiton used at PFF.

This could be debated all day. The defense is a hybrid. We really use a 4-3 alignment and gap integrity, with 3-4 principles and schemes. If you watched the preseason games, which I am [i]heavily inclined [/i]to say you [i]haven't, [/i]you would notice Suggs is standing up more. Cody, is head up on the center. Both prove your [i]theory[/i] wrong. Everyone else seems to accept this as fact, why won't you?

[doublerayven]

The amount of times a OLB/DE rushes the passer is profoundly irrelevant to what the base defense is. There has been plenty of times where reporters have asked the players themselves (Trevor Price, Ray, Suggs, etc) what is our base defense and the first response is that it is a 34.

Suggs has his hands in the dirt and sometimes both he and JJ have. But the main factor is the gaps that the LBs and Dlinemen control. Even when Suggs has his hand in the dirt you can clearly see Ray and McClain between the NT and the 3 technique linemen.

Gap control is what determines a base defense not rush percentages and numbers surrounded by opinions.