Ravens Sign Andre Gurode

[flynismo]

Love it. I didn't think we would actually go after him.
And I'm hoping this isn't just a depth move. I'd feel more secure with him starting at center than Birk.

[flynismo]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1315193177' post='777493']

Seen the article and, as with everything, PFF assigns their own criteria when evaluating players. It is still only their opinion, give the tape to someone else and they might rank him entirely different... even with the same point system.

They also said Matt Ryan was the 8th best player in the NFL last season [i](second best QB in the league) [/i]and Birk was 34th. I can't buy that.
[/quote]


PFF is a joke of a site. We all already know this

[berad]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1315196584' post='777552']

But why? Just because it disagrees against your preconceived notions? What if they're right? Why shouldn't they be? And certainly wouldn't you say they've analyzed more tape and watched more games and recorded their analysis more?

I think it's sort of understandable and reasonable for you to have the cognitive dissonance that you do, but it's not uncommon to historical analysis coming with a result that takes people by surprise.

Like a lot of people just couldn't believe that the sun didn't rotate around the earth for many decades. For many many years people just laughed at that idea.
[/quote]

I didn't think Matt Birk was that good last year. He just wasn't. I could point to the Ravens 3.8 ypc rushing average and be "right". While not all Birk's fault, he was a component of that. And if Birk, Grubbs, and Yanda were good enough to be Pro Bowlers [i](as PFF said)[/i] then what gives? Why was our rushing offense one of the least effective in the league? Solely because of Chris Chester? Because Todd Heap wasn't a great run blocker? I cannot buy that. I saw our OL fail to get a push too many times last season, especially in short-yardage, we could not run when we had to.

There's some value to what PFF says but they're not the end-all-be-all of the NFL world. I like the analogy to the heliocentric/geocentric models... on the other hand, some ideas are mocked just because they're plain wrong.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1315197517' post='777563']


PFF is a joke of a site. We all already know this [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]
[/quote]

Almost all a few people still think it has some credibility.

[BloodRaven]

It's a shame we had to let two talented young guys like Brown and Gaither walk, Birk, McKinnie and Gurode are good, but they're just stopgaps and will need replacing in a few years.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1315190997' post='777438']

You're making a claim that Matt Birk stunk last year. If your claim was true, then you would have a good argument. Really, your argument rests on the validity of this claim.

Matt Birk played excellently last year. You say "he stunk." What leads you to this conclusion? The rantings of Mike Preston?

I watched every game (twice) last year and I disagree. Furthermore, I have it upon TWO independent [b]actual analytic[/b] sources (one that looks at every team, and one guy who records and analyzes every single Ravens game and gives the O-line grades -- I mean guys who focus on independent players and their snaps, not National Opinion columnists or Team Opinion columnists like Prisco and Preston) that Matt Birk was the 2nd best Center in the league last year, and the best offensive lineman (by far) on the team last year.

I will take the analysis of guys who actually focus on Matt Birk and grade him on each snap every week rather than the analysis of Prisco who catches maybe 3 - 4 Ravens games in a season and Mike Preston who watches every game but is likely just following the ball like a regular fan.

So....
[/quote]

You must've not seen his game in steelers playoff. He fumbled twice to hand the ball into flacco's hand, and blocked the wrong man(making him double block along with grubbs instead of covering his man) in 4th quarter. He was one of the major factor why we lost that playoff game. You can go watch it twice, and see if he was 'excellent'

[neoi78]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1315199434' post='777589']
It's a shame we had to let two talented young guys like Brown and Gaither walk, Birk, McKinnie and Gurode are good, but they're just stopgaps and will need replacing in a few years.
[/quote]

LOL you know that Gaither still isn't suited up in KC right? That guy is gonna "milk" that injury till his career ends. Not saying the injury isn't serious - as I have a back issue myself - but I do believe 99% of NFL players play THRU injurys.

Now about Brown, I dont know much about!

[reediddy]

I was chowin on some wings at Buffalo Wild Wings when I saw this news show up on NFL Network, I almost screamed in joy right then and there. The more I think about it, the more it seems like an expensive insurance policy. But with the question mark surrounding Birk and his knees, it was a good pickup. I look for Gurode to start approximately Week 5, especially if Birk's health is even more in question

[gabefergy]

If a OLineman needs to get cut, LaVoir would be the one to go IMO. He didnt look that great from what I remember of him. He doesnt have high upside, and I think Mattison has more potenital as a future reserve G/C who can fill in when needed. If we carry Gurode, Mattison, and Reid we have depth at every OL position. Even if something were to happen to 2 tackles we still have Yanda who can slide over as well. The beauty of versatility.

[bmore187]

Gurode > Birk

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Love this signing... Birk may not be ready to go physically come week 1, and I definitely wasnt comfortable with Mattison stepping in week 1 though I like his upside and versatility. Gurode is at least comparable to Birk if not better IMO though the short amount of time he has to prepare gives me a bit of worry as well. Don't really know what the best option is to be honest. All 3 seem to have a slight bit of risk involved, but at least there are options now.

I'd also like to point out that in Ozzie's statement he says that signing Gurode provides us with great depth across the interior of our line, not necessarily that Gurode is that depth. He could be the starter making Birk the solid backup at C and Mattison with his versatility gives us options at all 3 spots. I wouldnt be shocked to see Gurode starting week 1, and almost expect him to win the job by week 4. In any event I feel MUCH better about our O-line now

[grape drank]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1315192468' post='777477']

We'll they're not just claiming it. They're substantiating ("backing up" for the rest of you) it as well, which is entirely a different matter. Check out this article here:

[url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/02/matt-birk-the-forgotten-pro-bowler/"]http://www.profootba...ten-pro-bowler/[/url]
[/quote]
could you please stop talking to everyone on this board like we're simpletons. Substantiated isn't even that complex of a word.

[73mayhem]

After all the hating and bickering by some fans, it appears Ozzie has shored up every position he possibly could under the rules of the salary cap. This is a good as it could be until Ngata signs long term. Well done Ozzy!!!!!!!!

[The Raven]

Little off topic, but lookin back, I wish we still had Jason Brown, and wish that Gaither never got hurt/turned into a wuss.

Gaither-Grubbs-Brown-Yanda-Oher

It's nice to dream...

[Elmo]

[url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/40048-blogs-mattison-learning-in-his-last-chance/page__hl__mattison__fromsearch__1"]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/40048-blogs-mattison-learning-in-his-last-chance/page__hl__mattison__fromsearch__1[/url]

This article states pretty specifically that Mattison is out of PS elligibility for those of you who were discussing it.

[robermar]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1315172429' post='776956']

His salary is over +6 million dollar for 36 year old center. And his cap value is +4million dollar. His injured and he stunk last year. Why not?

check his salary stats: [url="http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/salaries/player/Matt-Birk"]http://content.usato...layer/Matt-Birk[/url]
[/quote]

Exactly what proof do you have that he stunk last year? The line in general, as a unit, was not very good. But, but Birk, as a Center, played his position extremely well last year. Maybe you got confused and thought the RG was the Center on plays that you did not like?

[robermar]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1315191285' post='777444']
I have a feeling Gurode can play G if Grubbs or Yanda go down, too. Ultimately, he's a mauler who's a great run blocker. His pass protection is a meager average and he has had numerous troubles with snapping the ball out of shotgun to Tony Romo. I don't like the idea of Flacco chasing down Footballs like Tony Romo had to, but I really love this move.

Lack of O-line depth is what killed our season last year. When Jared Gaither went down 3 different O-line spots had a new member of the O-line on them and one was a terribly mediocre and weak Chris Chester at RG (which killed our running game).

Here's what Ozzie had to say:



So yeah, we signed him to be an interior lineman backup. I'm guessing if Grubbs or Yanda go down that he can play guard too. O'Hara is more versatile, but since he has a track record of it he was probably more expensive and less willing to be a backup. Gurode himself is rehabbing from surgery.

The PFF team put Gurode on their NFC Pro Bowl team last year, too. There's not a lot of good centers in the NFC, but he's one above Ryan Kalil. Also said:



Also put him as #10 for Centers over the last 3 years. I'd say that's about accurate.

Birk was #2. Also accurate. Love that beauty from Hahvahd.
[/quote]

I completely agree. I trust their observations and grades way more then the musings of fans (myself included)

[joryb1]

Although Matt Birk is listed as our starting center, it's hard for me to believe that this new pick at center will remain a backup. Considering his Pro Bowl credentials.

[robermar]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1315197517' post='777563']


PFF is a joke of a site. We all already know this [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]
[/quote]

Really? Why do you say that? I am not asking this rhetorically. I truly would like to know. I've seen several national writers mention them with respect.

[robermar]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1315202785' post='777599']

You must've not seen his game in steelers playoff. He fumbled twice to hand the ball into flacco's hand, and blocked the wrong man(making him double block along with grubbs instead of covering his man) in 4th quarter. He was one of the major factor why we lost that playoff game. You can go watch it twice, and see if he was 'excellent'
[/quote]

Was the fumble on the snap on Birk? Or was that on Flacco? Looked to me like it was on Flacco...but I am not sure.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='robermar' timestamp='1315230346' post='777686']


Was the fumble on the snap on Birk? Or was that on Flacco? Looked to me like it was on Flacco...but I am not sure.
[/quote]
Both.....Birk snapped it into his thigh, but Flacco could have (possibly) still grabbed it.

[robermar]

[quote name='joryb1' timestamp='1315230158' post='777683']
Although Matt Birk is listed as our starting center, it's hard for me to believe that this new pick at center will remain a backup. Considering his Pro Bowl credentials.
[/quote]

And Birk's 6 pro bowl credentials mean less? I personally can't stand the "pro bowl" moniker mentioned all of the time when discussing the quality of the player. Making a pro bowl is more about name recognition then anything else.

I would also like to point this article out.:
[url="http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/sports/ravens/ravens-add-former-pro-bowl-center-andre-gurode/article_ed8a2f60-d775-11e0-91b0-001cc4c002e0.html"]http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/sports/ravens/ravens-add-former-pro-bowl-center-andre-gurode/article_ed8a2f60-d775-11e0-91b0-001cc4c002e0.html[/url]

I think it is [b]very [/b]revealing that we only signed Gurode after we attempted a number of other moves at center; according to the above article. I truly believe Birk is the starting center, [i]if healthy[/i].

[Bltravens]

[quote name='robermar' timestamp='1315233519' post='777718']

And Birk's 6 pro bowl credentials mean less? I personally can't stand the "pro bowl" moniker mentioned all of the time when discussing the quality of the player. Making a pro bowl is more about name recognition then anything else.

I would also like to point this article out.:
[url="http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/sports/ravens/ravens-add-former-pro-bowl-center-andre-gurode/article_ed8a2f60-d775-11e0-91b0-001cc4c002e0.html"]http://www.carrollco...1cc4c002e0.html[/url]

I think it is [b]very [/b]revealing that we only signed Gurode after we attempted a number of other moves at center; according to the above article. I truly believe Birk is the starting center, [i]if healthy[/i].
[/quote]
He will start, he knows the offense, has been in it for 3 years and would have an easier time calling protections against the Steelers than Gurode would. He also has familiarity with how Grubbs/Yanda play beside him.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='robermar' timestamp='1315233519' post='777718']

And Birk's 6 pro bowl credentials mean less? I personally can't stand the "pro bowl" moniker mentioned all of the time when discussing the quality of the player.[b] Making a pro bowl is more about name recognition then anything else.[/b]

I would also like to point this article out.:
[url="http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/sports/ravens/ravens-add-former-pro-bowl-center-andre-gurode/article_ed8a2f60-d775-11e0-91b0-001cc4c002e0.html"]http://www.carrollco...1cc4c002e0.html[/url]

I think it is [b]very [/b]revealing that we only signed Gurode after we attempted a number of other moves at center; according to the above article. I truly believe Birk is the starting center, [i]if healthy[/i].
[/quote]

Over the last decade or so as a whole i would agree, however in recent years that has changed quite a bit so there is some value to it. When guys like McCourty, Berry, Collins and Nicks get there.

But again they are doing their best to undermine it because with it being in front of the SB now people who are the best are generally going to be where???? Oh yeah the SB. in a year or two it will be right back to meaning nothing.

[flynismo]

[quote name='robermar' timestamp='1315230183' post='777684']

Really? Why do you say that? I am not asking this rhetorically. I truly would like to know. I've seen several national writers mention them with respect.
[/quote]


Dont have time to give you a real answer right now; I'll come back to this later on.
For now I'll just say that they make up wierd ambiguous formulas to create their own rankings. I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with the results of their formulas ... many examples of that on their site (and mentioned here on the forums)

[The Raven]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1315242202' post='777806']


Dont have time to give you a real answer right now; I'll come back to this later on.
For now I'll just say that they make up wierd ambiguous formulas to create their own rankings. I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with the results of their formulas ... many examples of that on their site (and mentioned here on the forums)
[/quote]

not even just those formulas, but also saying Birk was a better center than Mangold... Just an example.

[ravensfan2430]

Love the signing. I think he will be starting by week 6.

[scrock]

Birk says he will be ready for week 1 but if ot Gurode would have to learn all the calls and get familiar with out offense in a week...thats tough, so hopefully the OL gets it together

If the OL isnt in good shape by the time the Steelers roll into town its going to be awfully hard to beat them..Cam better call some quick slants, some play action, and maybe a flee flicker

[SecretAgentMan]

Simple, we signed Andre for when Birk Retires, so that way, [b]two [/b]All pros can train a rookie center to be at the helm for Flacco. We give Flacco and Rice extensions when Ngata's deal gets done, then we Franchise Andre next season, to help mentor the rookie center we draft next year, what a great move.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1315267659' post='778302']
Simple, we signed Andre for when Birk Retires, so that way, [b]two [/b]All pros can train a rookie center to be at the helm for Flacco. We give Flacco and Rice extensions when Ngata's deal gets done, then we Franchise Andre next season, to help mentor the rookie center we draft next year, what a great move.
[/quote]
No way we franchise Gurode....what? Hahahahaha! Seriously, do you think before you post?

Edit - Also, how would two all pro's be mentoring a new center when Birk retires at the end of this year?