The "Should We Trade Dominique Foxworth" Thread

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1315236075' post='777741']
[b]There is no basis to your year statement. People heal differently. You have people like Gooden who seemly heal slower than molasses moves, and people like Terrell Owens whose healing abilities could rival Wolverine's.[/b]

And for the record, I've never said the man should start, I've said the opposite in other threads. But he does not need to be traded.

And by the way, with how you started that last post towards me, it certainly did not come across as "Hey man, I totally disagree with your stance on Foxworth". So please do forgive me if I took your "extensive football knowledge" comment as a shot at me. All I've discussed in this thread was Foxworth, then you brought personal feelings with that post towards me. Now I'm done arguing over personal stances on posters. Mods will only delete it, now that I think on it. Now if you want to talk Fox, fine. But do not try to trash me again. I respect every opinion on here, it's not my fault if people take the word "pathetic" harsher than it's intended.
[/quote]

That is the only thing about his age. I am not saying he is old, but in[i] general[/i] the older you get the harder it is to come back from.

That being said you did mention TO was is a freak of nature, and then guys like Hardy and Gooden who are young but hurt themselves going to the bathroom.

Now back to Foxy. He is a stand up guy and his mentality hemorrhages class, but as for on the field contributions. It is looking like in the last 3 years he may put together one solid season. I am not saying that we should trade hi either I think in an earlier post in this thread I said him being traded this year is impossible and releasing him would do us no good either.

now going back and looking at it he was released/tradeed his whole career until landing here and this is the only place where he was talked about as a number one corner. That is probably in large part due to Frank Walker and Corey Ivy being on the roster. However we are the only team he has started an entire season for. We actually got taken with the trade for fox because 3 years in denver and Atlanta signs him to a weak contract for weak performance, then he has a good year in Atlanta and we sign him to the crazy deal he has now.

Going back to his 09 season.

The schedule was
chiefs-W
[b]chargers-W[/b]
Cleveland-W
[b]Pats-L[/b]
[b]Bengals-L[/b]
[b]Vikings-L[/b]
Broncos-W
[b]Bengals-L[/b]
Browns-W
[b]Colts-L[/b]
[b]Steelers-W[/b]
[b]Packers-L[/b]
Lions-W
Bears-W
[b]Steelers-L[/b]
Raiders-W

The Broncos game is where he turned it on in many people's eyes so we will start from there, but every team with a good number one WR (highlighted) we got burned that game. Not saying it is all his fault but those one's had decent to big games against him. It was not as though people were running on us that year. Out of his 4 picks (even though he led us that is a pretty anemic number) 2 were against jay cutler and the bears so that stat is useless because it did not come against anybody who was known for accuracy or had good receivers.

I am not sure if his improved play was because him understanding the D better, him using the force, or a very weak second half schedule, but he was not doing it against teams with good passing games or good WR's. I cant take away his performance in the second half or discredit it but he certainly did not do it against good competition is all I have ever said about him.

[YYZ66]

OK, who here could take over a year off in their job and jump right back in as if you didn't miss a beat?
Also, who here bashing him were saying last year "Our season is over, we lost our best CB!" after his injury?

Bottom line - relax people. I believe our FO knows more about football than most of us here.....

[flynismo]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1315225323' post='777658']
In case you weren't watching, Foxworth cost us at least two games by constantly getting beat. We would have beaten Cinci if he wasn't BURNED and then flagged against Chris Henry. We also would have beat the Colts if he hadn't have been two or three paces behind Dallas Clark. Yeah, Walker was worse, but still. I don't get the anti-Ivy thing either.
[/quote]


True, it had nothing to do with Benson running all over us or our offense not putting up any points.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1315237658' post='777748']
Foxworth shouldn't leave but he could restructure his deal. That would be nice.
[/quote]

Yeah, I had him restructuring in all of my mocks. Being a class, team player, I have been waiting for the news to break. Especially this off season when many players are taking pay cuts.

[Thepurplehaze]

I don't think he's worth 6 mil by any means but it would not be in our favor to trade a well-liked teammate a week before kick-off with a group of inexperienced corners.

I think our team is officially set to go.

[Kevin Mullins]

I honestly can't believe this is still an intense argument.

Foxworth is the only corner on the team that has started an entire season as a 1 or 2 corner. Carr has always been a nickel who for us, and the Titans occasionally started on the white.

Cornerback is a vibe position, and a verbal position anyway.

The term "shutdown" corner seems to be given out after a few good games against a few good recievers, and then, for some reason the league as a whole stops targeting that corner extensively out of "fear" of that individual.

Example: Revis and Nnamdi have some of the lowest "targets" over the last 2-3 years, and yet, for some reason, people still hail them as great players, (which they undoubtedly are). However, they hardly dominate INT numbers, and they obviously have low yards on them because of the lack of attempts.

I am FAR more impressed with a player who is target 8-10 times a game and makes 4-8 good stops for short yardage/in completion/interception. Fact of the matter, is that player "played" the game, and didn't just run around in boredom because some offensive coordinator is "scared" of their ability. Corner is a position of vibe anyway. You can get in a rhythm against certain receivers, while others seem to befuddle you.

All in all...Foxy should start because he is a veteran who knows how to prepare Monday-Saturday, and has played enough to understand what a real Sunday is like in the NFL. We champion Cary Williams for being a "playmaker" but he has never contributed in a game that mattered for anything....where a team is actually running complex route trees, and motion-fakes. Lardarius is good, but makes too many mental mistakes in coverage and has very slow hips. Brown is a non-factor. Carr is good only in doses.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Kevin Mullins' timestamp='1315252815' post='778008']
I honestly can't believe this is still an intense argument.

Foxworth is the only corner on the team that has started an entire season as a 1 or 2 corner. Carr has always been a nickel who for us, and the Titans occasionally started on the white.

Cornerback is a vibe position, and a verbal position anyway.

The term "shutdown" corner seems to be given out after a few good games against a few good recievers, and then, for some reason the league as a whole stops targeting that corner extensively out of "fear" of that individual.

Example: Revis and Nnamdi have some of the lowest "targets" over the last 2-3 years, and yet, for some reason, people still hail them as great players, (which they undoubtedly are). However, they hardly dominate INT numbers, and they obviously have low yards on them because of the lack of attempts.

I am FAR more impressed with a player who is target 8-10 times a game and makes 4-8 good stops for short yardage/in completion/interception. Fact of the matter, is that player "played" the game, and didn't just run around in boredom because some offensive coordinator is "scared" of their ability. Corner is a position of vibe anyway. You can get in a rhythm against certain receivers, while others seem to befuddle you.

All in all...Foxy should start because he is a veteran who knows how to prepare Monday-Saturday, and has played enough to understand what a real Sunday is like in the NFL. We champion Cary Williams for being a "playmaker" but he has never contributed in a game that mattered for anything....where a team is actually running complex route trees, and motion-fakes. Lardarius is good, but makes too many mental mistakes in coverage and has very slow hips. Brown is a non-factor. Carr is good only in doses.
[/quote]

Yes but nnamdi and Revis have been tested and there is a reason they dont get thrown to, because it is almost futile. I understand what you are saying, but it makes no sense in regards to the term "shutdown" Take deion for instance you know why people did not test his ability because those that had often payed dearly for their arrogance. The only time you test a corner like that is when you have someone who could be argues is the best WR on the league with a decent QB on their roster. Such as when Brady and moss burned Revis. Outside of that it is better to nt test the waters.

If I had andre Johnson, Calvin johnson, or Fitz then I would test them to keep them honest but that is only because that receiver has a chance to make a play. If you have anquan who is a good receiver in my opinion with revis on them then dont bother because odds are you just lost a down or the ball.

[display name]

[quote name='Kevin Mullins' timestamp='1315252815' post='778008']
I honestly can't believe this is still an intense argument.

Foxworth is the only corner on the team that has started an entire season as a 1 or 2 corner. Carr has always been a nickel who for us, and the Titans occasionally started on the white.

Cornerback is a vibe position, and a verbal position anyway.

The term "shutdown" corner seems to be given out after a few good games against a few good recievers, and then, for some reason the league as a whole stops targeting that corner extensively out of "fear" of that individual.

Example: Revis and Nnamdi have some of the lowest "targets" over the last 2-3 years, and yet, for some reason, people still hail them as great players, (which they undoubtedly are). However, they hardly dominate INT numbers, and they obviously have low yards on them because of the lack of attempts.

I am FAR more impressed with a player who is target 8-10 times a game and makes 4-8 good stops for short yardage/in completion/interception. Fact of the matter, is that player "played" the game, and didn't just run around in boredom because some offensive coordinator is "scared" of their ability. Corner is a position of vibe anyway. You can get in a rhythm against certain receivers, while others seem to befuddle you.

All in all...Foxy should start because he is a veteran who knows how to prepare Monday-Saturday, and has played enough to understand what a real Sunday is like in the NFL. We champion Cary Williams for being a "playmaker" but he has never contributed in a game that mattered for anything....where a team is actually running complex route trees, and motion-fakes. Lardarius is good, but makes too many mental mistakes in coverage and has very slow hips. Brown is a non-factor. Carr is good only in doses.
[/quote]
Uh, Chris Carr started all 16 games last year. Where were you?

[Kevin Mullins]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1315256767' post='778099']
Uh, Chris Carr started all 16 games last year. Where were you?
[/quote]

I know this, and my post stated that....

Starting on the white means being on the outside. Carr for much of the year was inside (especially once Wilson emerged and Webb returned healthy). He began the year on the outside, and played there as part of a rotation with Webb.

[Free Agent]

The new Ravens depth chart has Foxworth starting, but I don't think he is healthy enough to start yet. Let Jimmy Smith and Cary Williams start, and give Foxworth some time to ease his way back into the lineup.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Free Agent' timestamp='1315328215' post='778879']
The new Ravens depth chart has Foxworth starting, but I don't think he is healthy enough to start yet. Let Jimmy Smith and Cary Williams start, and give Foxworth some time to ease his way back into the lineup.
[/quote]

And this is part of the reason this thread irritates me. Fox has not came close to earning that spot, it is always given to him. Where as the last two years Cary Williams has scratched and clawed to get that position after being passed over by the worst DC that we have ever had the misfortune to have on staff, for some reason unbeknownst to us.

Then this season he does it again, and plays really well and then gets passed over for a guy who was less than spectacular before and hasn't played in over a year coming off of an injury this is just ridiculous.

[Free Agent]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1315328460' post='778883']

And this is part of the reason this thread irritates me. Fox has not came close to earning that spot, it is always given to him. Where as the last two years Cary Williams has scratched and clawed to get that position after being passed over by the worst DC that we have ever had the misfortune to have on staff, for some reason unbeknownst to us.

Then this season he does it again, and plays really well and then gets passed over for a guy who was less than spectacular before and hasn't played in over a year coming off of an injury this is just ridiculous.
[/quote]

I completely agree. Cary Williams has certainly shown that he is more than capable of starting at CB. At this point I wouldn't give Foxworth any spot any higher than #4 CB. Let him work his way back into the lineup.

[SuRihtanil]

Id trade him if we get a 3rd round pick or better... but that is highly unlikely. No one really has strong enough interest in him to trade a game changing player for him.

[lgcs27288]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1315328460' post='778883']

And this is part of the reason this thread irritates me. Fox has not came close to earning that spot, it is always given to him. Where as the last two years Cary Williams has scratched and clawed to get that position after being passed over by the worst DC that we have ever had the misfortune to have on staff, for some reason unbeknownst to us.

Then this season he does it again, and plays really well and then gets passed over for a guy who was less than spectacular before and hasn't played in over a year coming off of an injury this is just ridiculous.
[/quote]

Well as anyone else really proven they deserve the spot over Foxworth?

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='lgcs27288' timestamp='1315332588' post='778965']

Well as anyone else really proven they deserve the spot over Foxworth?
[/quote]

Recently I am high on Jimmy and Cary they have both earned their starting roles if you ask me. They have proven recently that they are competitors and have all the tools to succeed. Jimmy with his coverage on dwayne bowe inspired confidence. Sure they have both had their miscues but they both also have the raw ability to be play makers

[Quoth]

This is a business first and foremost. Putting out 7 million per year and getting zero in return for the investment makes no economic sense or any other kind of sense for that matter. Economics 101: Cut the losses ASAP and move on.

[BeastMode]

Foxworth is awful and gets beat so much, he just cant keep up with other receivers in this league anymore, let him go, we have plenty of depth at corner right now especially when carr gets back. Webb and even williams has played better than foxworth has his entire career with the ravens

[Suggs Package]

[quote name='Quoth' timestamp='1317653463' post='814221']
This is a business first and foremost. Putting out 7 million per year and getting zero in return for the investment makes no economic sense or any other kind of sense for that matter. Economics 101: Cut the losses ASAP and move on.
[/quote]

If you understand the business of football, you will understand why Foxworth wasn't cut. The majority of his salary would count against the cap even if he were cut, so there's virtually no financial incentive. The only plus would be to have a free roster spot, but now that is a moot point with Foxworth on IR. You just hope that next year, he is fine, or you cut him then because he isn't as much of a financial burden of the team.

[D-Rey]

Really this thread didn't need to be brought back up

[Ed_Reed20]

So after Ray and Ed showed exactly they shouldn't have been benched, you dig up this relic to try and win back some credibility?

[Purple Punishment]

Trade Foxworth an unproven overpaid CB who didn't bounce back well after a torn ACL. What exactly do you suggest we get in return

[IMissMattStover]

Should we want to trade him, who on earth would want to trade anything of value for him?

[Ravenslifer]

Why do threads from the past keep reappearing? That's 3 I've counted in the last week, and one was from before the Harbaugh Era.

[IMissMattStover]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1327192395' post='961549']
Why do threads from the past keep reappearing? That's 3 I've counted in the last week, and one was from before the Harbaugh Era.
[/quote]

Something I've noticed. People on this site who bring back old threads are usually the ones who have just recently made a seperate thread about something completely rediculous, and they try to regain credibility by resurfacing an old argument.

[Gordo52]

I say we cut him and get as much $ as we can from him.
Goorer looks pretty good. And Foxworth wont start over Webb,Smith,Cary,Carr

[ThePurpleWall]

[quote name='IMissMattStover' timestamp='1327192491' post='961552']

Something I've noticed. People on this site who bring back old threads are usually the ones who have just recently made a seperate thread about something completely rediculous, and they try to regain credibility by resurfacing an old argument.
[/quote]

i was going say this is a old thread.

[IMissMattStover]

[quote name='ThePurpleWall' timestamp='1327193654' post='961569']

i was going say this is a old thread.
[/quote]

Early bird gets the thread. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/minioiseau1.gif[/img]

[K-Dog]

Maybe Dunkin' Donuts might give you a box of munchkins and a box of coffee.

[Purple Punishment]

Trade him for a washing machine like in Semi Pro

[PeRK82]

I voted Yes, i like the Crew we have now and i think if Foxworth stayed, that would mean someone from the current roster would not be here next yr. Sorry they put in the work, they deserve to stay here. Foxworth has played in almost 2 yrs now or am i thinking of someone else???