The "Should We Trade Dominique Foxworth" Thread

[display name]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1315163206' post='776739']

So Chykie Brown is better than Fox "by far"?
[/quote]
Yep.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1315175518' post='777054']
I never said that...He's 28 years old and he's coming off an ACL tear and Foxworth never was a particularly fast corner to begin with. I said that you can't just assume that he's going to be able to produce at the same level that he did before the injury.
[/quote]

You said:
[quote]I love Foxy, but he isn't young and corner is a position where if a guy gets a couple steps on you can be the difference between a pick and a TD. [/quote]
So you did say that.

Why didn't we get rid of Webb when he came back from his injury? Why don't we get rid of Chris Carr if he's slower than Foxworth, and speed is so important? We're not expecting him to perform at his best right now, but people heal. Even at 28. Even so, his experience and being the only CB on the team with much experience should be enough to keep him here.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1315175764' post='777060']

Yep.
[/quote]
And I'll counter that with a nope!

[ooo sugahhh 52]

i highly doubt that a former secondary coach would allow us to get rid of our most experienced corner. he may not be a superstar but he can still make plays. we finally have depth at corner and people want to mess that up. who do we get to replace him? corey ivy? frank walker?

[lowrider]

For people saying we should trade him, who are we going to trade for? What do we need to trade for?

Then the second question: What could we realistically get for him? It's not like the other 31 teams are completely oblivious to the fact Foxworth has struggled with his knee injury.

Then the third question is: Does the trade offers outweigh his worth in Baltimore? Obviously its a no. For everyone that has voted yes to trade him, you haven't thought the entire process through. Because if you did, then you would see that it just isn't possible

[scrock]

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1315174843' post='777028']
Fact, really? Nice try though. It's funny how you're just assuming that he's going to make a full recovery from what was a potentially career threatening injury. I love Foxy, but he isn't young and corner is a position where if a guy gets a couple steps on you can be the difference between a pick and a TD.
[/quote]


ACL injuries today are not like 30 years ago when it was career threatening, guys come back from them all the time these days...Foxworth didnt get to rehab like he would have because of the lockout, he is behind a little bit

but he will get better as the season goes along and he's a smart veteran who can read routes...he's good, we need him

[scrock]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1315175764' post='777060']
Yep.
[/quote]

yeah right, Chykie Brown has a long way to go before he's better than Foxworth....on experience alone Foxworth has the edge

[mhead66]

No. He's untradeable, with the contract + the injury.

Sadly, both him & Webb aren't [b]close[/b] to the speed they had, pre-injury. Hopefully, in time, they'll regain it. Unfortunately, HOF CB Rod Woodson was never the same after his ACL - he still knew how to play the position, but lost his world-class speed. That's how we were able to get him.

Foxworth knows [b]how [/b]to play CB but doesn't have the wheels right now... but we need to keep him & Webb, and start Cary & Jimmy, with Carr as the nickel...

For now, we should let Webb blitz and play in the dime, and let Foxworth heal.

Ed Reed had a serious neck injury. Matt Birk is struggling with his knees, still. Why isn't anyone calling for them to be traded / released?

[Ravensstrike4424]

and im tired of these threads saying we need to trade foxworth,he is fine to me,good CB.leave him alone

[latenighthero]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1315176089' post='777070']

You said:

So you did say that.

Why didn't we get rid of Webb when he came back from his injury? Why don't we get rid of Chris Carr if he's slower than Foxworth, and speed is so important? We're not expecting him to perform at his best right now, but people heal. Even at 28. Even so, his experience and being the only CB on the team with much experience should be enough to keep him here.
[/quote]
Wow.

First of all your misquoting me because you took out the part that was the whole basis of what I was saying and that was that because he wasn't a particularly fast corner he could struggle if he isn't able to fully recover from a very serious knee injury. Experience itself won't keep you on a team especially at a high salary like Foxy is getting.

I do think we should keep Foxworth right now because we don't need the extra cap space and there aren't really any teriffic corners that we it would be worth it to replace him with. However, you cannot just assume that he's going to be the same guy that he was before his injury. Personally I would be thrilled if he could get back to his pre-injury form but I really don't think you could expect much more from him.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1315180069' post='777159']
Wow.

First of all your misquoting me because you took out the part that was the whole basis of what I was saying and that was that because he wasn't a particularly fast corner he could struggle if he isn't able to fully recover from a very serious knee injury. Experience itself won't keep you on a team especially at a high salary like Foxy is getting.

I do think we should keep Foxworth right now because we don't need the extra cap space and there aren't really any teriffic corners that we it would be worth it to replace him with. However, you cannot just assume that he's going to be the same guy that he was before his injury. Personally I would be thrilled if he could get back to his pre-injury form but I really don't think you could expect much more from him.
[/quote]

How am I misquoting you? That was a direct copy and paste. I read the first sentence, but the second sentence clearly showed your disdain for Foxworth's age. If you can't stand by everything you write, don't write it.

Actually experience itself is what got Bulger on the team. Remember how we paid him more than Flacco and he never saw a snap? And isn't an experienced backup QB what most anti-Foxy fans are demanding to replace him?

So all you're saying is that we should keep Foxworth, but he might not be great out of the gates? Isn't that the general consensus already?

[latenighthero]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1315178827' post='777126']


ACL injuries today are not like 30 years ago when it was career threatening, guys come back from them all the time these days...Foxworth didnt get to rehab like he would have because of the lockout, he is behind a little bit

but he will get better as the season goes along and he's a smart veteran who can read routes...he's good, we need him
[/quote]
Ya I agree completely.

[*kid_chaos100*]

I say no..... first of all why cant they just ask him if the can lower is salary.... Im sure he will understand how the organization needs to free up some cap space.... #2 listen the guy just came off of an injury, give him a break, im sure he's going to be better by the mid beginning of this season.... and #3 he is an above average CB, 2 years ago he did lead the team in INTs.....(including Dawan Landry) more than Ed Reed! Sooo.... again I said NO..

[rob321]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1315164277' post='776756']


wow...just wow...

Corey Ivy SUCKED first of all. Horrible. As bad as Walker was.
And I'll let you in on a secret. Foxworth was NOT the reason we lost games in 2009.
[/quote]

thank u im glade some one said it but out of all our freeagent pickups this year i gotta say carr was the worst last year was his best year ihe didnt impress and probably wont have a good year ever again as for fox apparently he is very underated here in baltimore when healthy he is still the best cb on the team so if u wanna put up a poll it should be why did we resign carr its pretty bad considering no one else wanted him

[mhead66]

[quote name='*kid_chaos100*' timestamp='1315181573' post='777204']
I say no..... [u][b]first of all why cant they just ask him if the can lower is salary[/b][/u].... Im sure he will understand how the organization needs to free up some cap space.... #2 listen the guy just came off of an injury, give him a break, im sure he's going to be better by the mid beginning of this season.... and #3 he is an above average CB, 2 years ago he did lead the team in INTs.....(including Dawan Landry) more than Ed Reed! Sooo.... again I said NO.. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
[/quote]
I'm not disagreeing with your post...

But I read on Twitter that the Ravens offered to keep Tavares Gooden on the 53 man roster if he would reduce his salary of $1.5 million. He said No and we cut him.

Not everyone will take less to stay a Raven... I don't know if they've discussed it with Foxworth, I'm just saying it might not work out if they did.

[*kid_chaos100*]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1315182489' post='777218']
I'm not disagreeing with your post...

But I read on Twitter that the Ravens offered to keep Tavares Gooden on the 53 man roster if he would reduce his salary of $1.5 million. He said No and we cut him.

Not everyone will take less to stay a Raven... I don't know if they've discussed it with Foxworth, I'm just saying it might not work out if they did.
[/quote]
ok.... do you think that he would agree?

[latenighthero]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1315180836' post='777187']

How am I misquoting you? That was a direct copy and paste. I read the first sentence, but the second sentence clearly showed your disdain for Foxworth's age. If you can't stand by everything you write, don't write it.

Actually experience itself is what got Bulger on the team. Remember how we paid him more than Flacco and he never saw a snap? And isn't an experienced backup QB what most anti-Foxy fans are demanding to replace him?

So all you're saying is that we should keep Foxworth, but he might not be great out of the gates? Isn't that the general consensus already?
[/quote]
You're wrong about Bulger and if we value experience so much than why are we going with Tyrod Taylor who has no NFL regular season experience? We are because he is more capable physically. You really can't use Bulger as an example when we chose not to do the same thing this year and then cut 4 of our more experienced players.

I said that you can't assume that it's not a guarentee that he's going to become the player that he was before. He might never be as good as he was.

[mhead66]

[quote name='*kid_chaos100*' timestamp='1315182821' post='777231']
ok.... do you think that he would agree?
[/quote]
Truthfully - him & his agent would discuss the chances of the Ravens cutting him if he said No. And, after what happened to Gooden, they might really cut him, if they asked and he refused. And at this point, because of his injury, he would probably have a hard time finding a job outside of Baltimore.

So, with all that... yes, I think he would probably be willing, if it happened. I'd rather take a paycut, from $7 million to $2 millon (for example) than to be unemployed. There's a LOT of unemployed players out there today.

[mhead66]

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1315182892' post='777234']
You're wrong about Bulger and if we value experience so much than why are we going with Tyrod Taylor who has no NFL regular season experience? We are because he is more capable physically. You really can't use Bulger as an example when we chose not to do the same thing this year and then cut 4 of our more experienced players.

I said that you can't assume that it's not a guarentee that he's going to become the player that he was before. He might never be as good as he was.
[/quote]

Not meaning to intrude in you two's discussion...

But I believe the Ravens did want to resign Bulger at the same price as last year - $3 million - and he refused - simply because he said that he'd had enough, and wanted to retire from football altogether. He said he wanted to do charity work with his foundation, if I remember correctly.

Carry on with your discussion...

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1315179017' post='777130']
No. He's untradeable, with the contract + the injury.

Sadly, both him & Webb aren't [b]close[/b] to the speed they had, pre-injury. Hopefully, in time, they'll regain it. Unfortunately, HOF CB Rod Woodson was never the same after his ACL - he still knew how to play the position, but lost his world-class speed. That's how we were able to get him.

Foxworth knows [b]how [/b]to play CB but doesn't have the wheels right now... but we need to keep him & Webb, and start Cary & Jimmy, with Carr as the nickel...

For now, we should let Webb blitz and play in the dime, and let Foxworth heal.

[b]Ed Reed had a serious neck injury. Matt Birk is struggling with his knees, still. Why isn't anyone calling for them to be traded / released?[/b]
[/quote]

Please tell me you werent serious ?? Fox is nowhere near those two in ability. and to even mention reed in the same breath as foxy is poor taste

[latenighthero]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1315183291' post='777241']

Not meaning to intrude in you two's discussion... [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/wink.png[/img]

But I believe the Ravens did want to resign Bulger at the same price as last year - $3 million - and he refused - simply because he said that he'd had enough, and wanted to retire from football altogether. He said he wanted to do charity work with his foundation, if I remember correctly.

Carry on with your discussion...
[/quote]
Oh ya I didn't really clarify that very well. I meant why didn't we sign a vet QB, not why didn't we resign Bulger.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

This is a legit thread. I think Foxy should at least take a pay cut, I believe him to be an honorable and honest man because he has shown that thus far, but last year he got a free ride, this year he is probably going to get one for the first half of the year. Then the first half of 09 he got one. So out of three years he may have given us 1 year of production.

I think he is a DECENT corner but nowhere near what we are paying him. That being said honestly right now he may be 4th on the depth chart. And he was our best corner in 09 but that is not exactly something to be proud of, who was his competition ?

If we cut him now we could activate somebody off of the PS that we like or maybe get Josh Bynes back. And nobody is going to want him especially if the team paying him 7 mil does not even think he is worth that.

If we keep him he provides depth and may be solid the second half of the year, so we should wait till next year and just let him go and close this terrible chapter of our secondary.

[Ravensfan23]

New Flash........Foxy's Cap number doesn't matter. Lets free up money to go after who exactly? Are we still holding out hope for Nnamdi? Can we somehow get Ryan Kahlil away from the Panthers?

What does Foxworth's 6 million have to do with anything right now. I could understand people crying about money they don't own 5-6 weeks ago when everyone thought the Salary cap would prevent this team from making improvements, but what's the reason behind the hate now?

For the guy that said Foxworth was the reason we lost so many games early in 09, check your facts. Over the first half of the 09 season, 8 games, the Ravens were 4-4. Our 4 loses came against the Pats, Bengals, Vikings and Bengals.

In none of those games was Foxy responsible for us losing.

His toughest game came against the Chargers and we won that game. So I don't know where that statement came from.

As for this year. The Ravens are doing right by Foxy and the team by taking him slow.

With the emergence of Cary Williams and Jimmy Smith, Foxy will probably see limited action early on.

The good thing for the Ravens is that other then Week 1, there isn't many offenses on the early part of the Schedule that should give us much problems.

I don't know about you guys, but the names of Hasselbeck, Bradford and Shancez don't scare me before the bye week. After, that we have Schaub who we did well against last year(without the prevent), either Garrad or Gabbert, Kolb, and Ben. Then we have Tarvaris Jackson, Andy Dalton, Alex Smith and Colt McCoy, before running into Peyton and Phillip.

Those names don't have me shaking in my boots. To be honest I think we are gonna feast on those QBs this year.

I think Foxy will be able to get healthy during the early portions of the season, and then be a really strong cover guy for us heading into the final 4 game and playoffs.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Kevin Mullins' timestamp='1315164885' post='776764']
Foxworth is the ONLY PROVEN CORNER on this team!

I completely understand the obsession people have with young talent, up-and-comers if you will. However, this is the NFL...where potential and expectations mean as much as a forgotten birth control pill....AKA...nothing.

Jimmy Smith in a few years, barring any losses in his commitment should be considered a top 5 corner in the league.

Chris Carr has proven to be that "B" grade corner that is capable of playing the Y or Z receiver. You would never go singles with him on the X as his size and lack of vertical speed would have him smoked...but he is serviceable, good in run support, and smart enough to play route trees.

Lardarius is without a doubt our most athletic corner on the team. He is also the least intelligent, at least as it pertains the "Football IQ". Playing at such a small schooll means that he didn't see the complex routes, systems, and offenses that most D1 defenders face. Furthermore, he too is a ACL recovery project, and is probably just now forgetting that he had the injury. "forgetting refers to the idea that you don't play in fear of the injury anymore"

Cary Williams is a wild card. We all love his play in the preseason, and we are impressed with his physical nature. But seriously, do we think we could put him man-man on Andre Johnson in a few weeks? Or, even still, can he deal with Hines Ward week 1? We can't assume he is an answer before he's never been questioned.

Lastly, Chucki Brown is a no-one that has potential but won't make ANY impact on this team unless there is an injury...at least not this year. His INT against ATL shows his burst, but its not as though he made the pick off of intelligence or route jumping.

Foxworth is a veteran who has matched up against the best in the league at times. Like any corner he has been beat...but like few corners...[b]he has also shown the ability to lock in and shut down a player for an entire game. He is our BEST corner as we stand now.[/b] By years end i hope im praising Jimmy and Lardarius....but we shall see.
[/quote]

Yeah who did he ever shutdown because it was nowhere close to a legit #1 he got beat by those regularly even in the second half of his magical 09 season.

I guess there are extremists on both sides.

And no he is not I would take Jimmy smith right now over foxworth, now, in the past, or the future plain and simple

[mhead66]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1315183603' post='777243']

Please tell me you werent serious ?? Fox is nowhere near those two in ability. and to even mention reed in the same breath as foxy is poor taste
[/quote]
It was sarcasm...

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1315184484' post='777272']
It was sarcasm... [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
[/quote]

oh whew ok, I thought you implied they were in the same realm. Ok now all is right with the world again .

[mhead66]

[quote name='latenighthero' timestamp='1315183956' post='777252']
Oh ya I didn't really clarify that very well. I meant why didn't we sign a vet QB, not why didn't we resign Bulger.
[/quote]

Halfway through preseason, I totally agreed with you, and made that argument. Even now, I'm ambivalent. Yes, TT has made some good plays... but the Ravens are legitimate Super Bowl contenders, and while Taylor has done well in preseason, I'm rather pessimistic that he's ready to step right in, if (God forbid) Joe goes down and we need our QB to score in the last 2 minutes, to tie the game.

The only reason I've backed off in my criticism is that I SERIOUSLY see absolutely NO talent out there, that coming to Baltimore would be an improvement over Taylor. Croyle failed in KC & Miami, and just got cut in SD. Delhomme looked dreadful in Cleveland last year. Josh McCown is NOT the answer. I can't think of anyone who I'd replace Taylor with.

But, yeah, it [b]IS[/b] a worry. If Flacco goes down, I'm not sure we can pull off what the Steelers did last year - 3 -1 without BB, using Dixon and Batch.

Sorry for derailing the thread.. we were discussing Foxworth... and I agree with RF23 - sure it would be nice to get Foxy to take less, but we're better off with him, than without him - and our roster is set, and we're under the cap.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1315184844' post='777279']

Halfway through preseason, I totally agreed with you, and made that argument. Even now, I'm ambivalent. Yes, TT has made some good plays... but the Ravens are legitimate Super Bowl contenders, and while Taylor has done well in preseason, I'm rather pessimistic that he's ready to step right in, if (God forbid) Joe goes down and we need our QB to score in the last 2 minutes, to tie the game.

The only reason I've backed off in my criticism is that I SERIOUSLY see absolutely NO talent out there, that coming to Baltimore would be an improvement over Taylor. Croyle failed in KC & Miami, and just got cut in SD. Delhomme looked dreadful in Cleveland last year. Josh McCown is NOT the answer. I can't think of anyone who I'd replace Taylor with.

[b]But, yeah, it IS a worry. If Flacco goes down, I'm not sure we can pull off what the Steelers did last year - 3 -1 without BB, using Dixon and Batch.[/b]
[/quote]

Those guys did absolutely nothing for the Steelers to go 3-1. The Steelers relied on their running game and Defense to get them through.

Tyrod is completely capable of doing that for us. It's called having a strong "TEAM".

In week one, Dixon didn't play well at all, but the defense and running game did.

in week two. Batch and Dixon combined to go 9-17 for 33 yards passing. I have total faith in Tyrod to do that. The Titans QBs threw 3 Ints with 2 of them coming on potential scoring drives.

In week 3, Batch had his best performance. However when you look past the numbers, he didn't play well at all. He threw 2 ints. He also had 2 TD passes of 40+ yards but both passes where badly thrown and should have been picked off.

These are his 2 TD passes.
[url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010092602/2010/REG3/steelers@buccaneers#menu=highlights|contentId%3A09000d5d81ad45ee&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay"]http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010092602/2010/REG3[/url]
[url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010092602/2010/REG3/steelers@buccaneers#menu=highlights|contentId%3A09000d5d81ad45ee&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay"]/steelers@buccaneers#menu=highlights|contentId%3A09000d5d81ad45ee&tab=analyze&analyze=playbypl[/url]

[url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010092602/2010/REG3/steelers@buccaneers#menu=highlights|contentId%3A09000d5d81ad52f3&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay"]http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010092602/2010/REG3/steelers@buccaneers#menu=highlights|contentId%3A09000d5d81ad52f3&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay[/url]

If the Ravens had to rely on Tyrod to get it done for a couple weeks, we'd just ask our team around him to step up. Defense, Special teams, the running game. and just ask Tyrod not to turn the ball over, much like we did with Flacco in his rookie year.

So if it's possible, don't worry so much about our backup situation.

[latenighthero]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1315184844' post='777279']

Halfway through preseason, I totally agreed with you, and made that argument. Even now, I'm ambivalent. Yes, TT has made some good plays... but the Ravens are legitimate Super Bowl contenders, and while Taylor has done well in preseason, I'm rather pessimistic that he's ready to step right in, if (God forbid) Joe goes down and we need our QB to score in the last 2 minutes, to tie the game.

The only reason I've backed off in my criticism is that I SERIOUSLY see absolutely NO talent out there, that coming to Baltimore would be an improvement over Taylor. Croyle failed in KC & Miami, and just got cut in SD. Delhomme looked dreadful in Cleveland last year. Josh McCown is NOT the answer. I can't think of anyone who I'd replace Taylor with.

But, yeah, it [b]IS[/b] a worry. If Flacco goes down, I'm not sure we can pull off what the Steelers did last year - 3 -1 without BB, using Dixon and Batch.

Sorry for derailing the thread.. we were discussing Foxworth... and I agree with RF23 - sure it would be nice to get Foxy to take less, but we're better off with him, than without him - and our roster is set, and we're under the cap.
[/quote]
Haha no worries it was a pretty useless thread anyways. Obviously we aren't going to trade him and we don't get anything to release him at this point.

I think the year is over regardless and we wouldn't have a legitmate shot at winning the super bowl if Joe got hurt anyways. We may as well give the young guys experience and take the high draft picks that come from not making the playoffs.

[Alexir]

If we got Foxworth we would have to sign another corner from free agency. Not willing to send up one of our PS guys. Nathan Vasher is out there. But like others have said, we really don't need cap room if we arent going to sign anyone else.