Flacco Or Freeman

[nk02442]

Funny thing is last year the bucks never beat a team over .500. When you play [profanity deleted]ty teams its easier to run up the stats. Come over to the AFC and play the jets, steelers, pats, and colts every year and see him do 26/6 again.

[True]

Josh Freeman has lot of good upside. He's shown he can dominate weak teams but struggles against the better ones. He's young and up and coming and is going into his 3rd year in charge of a young up and coming team. I would have given the Bucs more credit of being on the rise if they made a big free agent signing with all the cap room they have, but it looks like they will rely on their young core leading the way and with that you'll expect some ups and downs.

Josh Freeman gets a lot of love because he is in charge of these Young Bucs (I had to make the pun lol) and people see a lot of good things out it. I don't really see any disrespect for Joe Flacco and AsianRice made an excellent point about how the Ravens identity as a team is still defense first and how most outside people still see them as that. Freeman is the face of the Bucs and carries that team--thus gets more attention--Flacco is a major part of his team, but also has great pieces and personalities surround him for a complete well rounded team. I feel more comfortable with a well rounded team instead of QB-centric one if it means more success on the field instead of in the papers.

[PurpleReign92]

If I had a choice in my fantasy league, I would start Flacco over Freeman in week 1. Then also the Ravens defense in week 1....

[codizzle]

[quote name='PurpleReign92' timestamp='1314901439' post='772608']
If I had a choice in my fantasy league, I would start Flacco over Freeman in week 1. Then also the Ravens defense in week 1....
[/quote]
lol freeman is playing the lions.. For my fantasy teams sake i would prolly take him over flacco vs steelers

[Tiz]

Freeman only beat one quality team but freeman excels in late game situations thus far.

Personally I dont care who's better as long as we win...

[PurpleReign92]

The "[b]powe[/b]r" ranking of the Steelers is a lot higher then the Lions, but all in all QB's tend to have success over developing teams... Both the Lions and Bucks are "[b]designed" [/b]the same. They are trying to catch a glimpse of the post season with the Bucks being slightly ahead....

[jaege]

[quote name='*kid_chaos100*' timestamp='1314840468' post='772158']
Alot of people are saying that Josh Freeman ( Tampa Bay Bucs QB) is better that JOE FLACCO!!Yeah Josh had 25 TDs and 6 INTs, but hes not better that Flacco....Flacco has led his team to the playoffs 3 times ever sinse he's been here.... Josh .... Never. This is why Im tired of EVERYBODY hatin on Joe! Joe is good! Everyone makes mistakes... Joe has been learning every year to be a better QB. Somebody is always saying... Joe is not confident... Joe is not this..... Joe is always making mistakes....Well... He will show every single commentator, critics, who names it... that Joe Flacco is a good Quarterback!! Even better than Josh Freeman!!

-Your Thoughts:)
[/quote]


This "lot of people" is obviously not very bright, do not know football or are TB homers. Maybe all three. Freeman is a good QB but he is a level or two below Joe.

[jaege]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1314847933' post='772252']
You could make a good argument for Freeman, but i'll just leave that there.
[/quote]


I am curious what argument you could possibly make that Freeman is better than Flacco. Please make it. I would really like to hear it.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1314892155' post='772458']
[b]It's so relative.[/b]

Do you use team success, wins, playoff wins?
Do you use passer rating and completion percentage?

And how do you account for a team's offensive line and receivers - you can have a great passer with no offensive line and no receivers... or, of course, a substandard QB looking good because of a great supporting cast.

USA Today ranked Flacco as the #10 QB... however, they ranked Mark Sanchez #11, which says volumes about USA Today... [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/wink.png[/img]

But, I think the quality of the passing defenses QBs face definitely factors into a QB's "rating"...
[/quote]

Exactly.

[The Raven]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1314922094' post='773074']

Exactly.
[/quote]

Disclaimer: I am not a Flacco hater, and I love him as our franchise QB. He is far better than Freeman.

For once, I'll side with you. By no means am I saying Freeman is a better QB. Not at all. I'm just saying, an argument [i]can be made[/i]. Whether or not its a valid argument is up to you. He did have the same amount of TDs, 4 less picks, and only 200 less yards. His QB rating was higher. All this in his second year, being compared to Flacco's third. And you could say, he has less talent around him than Flacco. Freeman is better than given credit for, but not quite as good as Joe. I still stand by the fact though that Freeman looks better than he is because he plays in a [b]soft [/b]division. there are some bad defenses in that division.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1314925308' post='773396']

Disclaimer: I am not a Flacco hater, and I love him as our franchise QB. He is far better than Freeman.

For once, I'll side with you. By no means am I saying Freeman is a better QB. Not at all. I'm just saying, an argument [i]can be made[/i]. Whether or not its a valid argument is up to you. He did have the same amount of TDs, 4 less picks, and only 200 less yards. His QB rating was higher. All this in his second year, being compared to Flacco's third. And you could say, he has less talent around him than Flacco. Freeman is better than given credit for, but not quite as good as Joe. I still stand by the fact though that Freeman looks better than he is because he plays in a [b]soft [/b]division. there are some bad defenses in that division.
[/quote]

Yes, he does play in a softer division, AND they played possibly the worst division ever last season. He had a bunch of fourth quarter comebacks, but that's a completely overrated statistic. Flacco, with a much harder schedule, in colder weather, was a better QB than Freeman last season. If you remove the first Bengals game, which was probably Flacco's worst game ever and could be considered an outlier, there are the four interceptions. Freeman was very efficient, and did a great job of protecting the ball. But you have to adjust for opponent.

[Ravenslifer]

If you want to compare them, just look at Freeman's numbers vs. the AFC North compared to Flacco's vs. the NFC South last season. I think that settles the debate.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1314925308' post='773396']

Disclaimer: I am not a Flacco hater, and I love him as our franchise QB. He is far better than Freeman.

For once, I'll side with you. By no means am I saying Freeman is a better QB. Not at all. I'm just saying, an argument [i]can be made[/i]. Whether or not its a valid argument is up to you. He did have the same amount of TDs, 4 less picks, and only 200 less yards. His QB rating was higher. All this in his second year, being compared to Flacco's third. And you could say, he has less talent around him than Flacco. Freeman is better than given credit for, but not quite as good as Joe. I still stand by the fact though that Freeman looks better than he is because he plays in a [b]soft [/b]division. there are some bad defenses in that division.
[/quote]

Flacco isn't exactly revered around the league like he is here but again it's all about perspective, and perspective is skewed depending on who you ask. Personally I don't think it makes a lot of sense to compare stats of two players who came into and play in two very different situations.

Trust me when I say that if Flacco was playing for another team our perspective of him would again be very different.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1314942251' post='774030']


Flacco isn't exactly revered around the league like he is here but again it's all about perspective, and perspective is skewed depending on who you ask. Personally I don't think it makes a lot of sense to compare stats of two players who came into and play in two very different situations.

Trust me when I say that if Flacco was playing for another team our perspective of him would again be very different.
[/quote]
There are plenty of lists that have Flacco as a top 10 QB in the league. While that may not mean he's "revered", he's does get some respect from some analysts. He is a good, above average QB in this league after three years. Can you admit/agree to that part?

[scrock]

Flacco duh

[Raving_Heathen]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1314925308' post='773396']
And you could say, he has less talent around him than Flacco.
[/quote]

I think this is basically why so many people rank Freeman higher than Flacco. It's the same reason Ryan is almost universally ranked higher than Flacco. Like True said, Freeman (like Ryan) is the face of his franchise, and Flacco is not (even on offense, most people probably view Ray Rice as the spearhead). Both Freeman and Ryan, correctly or wrongly, are given credit for turning around and/or saving their respective franchises. Again, Flacco is not seen in that light. You can point to Flacco's superior playoff success and superior stats (against better defenses) until you're blue in the face, but many people (including those in Baltimore) see those things as a product of playing for a perennially elite organization. In other words, the Ravens are carrying Flacco, instead of the other way around.

I don't agree with that though. I belong to the school of thought that Flacco's ceiling and individual stats are actually HINDERED by being on the Ravens (how many Top 12 QBs have the Ravens had in their 15 years of existence? Exactly). I think it's the same "curse" that plagues Roethlisberger even now. Because the Ravens still have a stout D and are still a run-first team, Flacco hasn't been able to play to his strengths and instead has been relegated to being more of a game manager because that's all he needs to be for the team to win 90% of the time. But the fact is, data shows that Flacco IS one of the elite stretch vertical passers in this league, and this is DESPITE him playing in an offense lacking the philosophy or personnel to take advantage of his big arm. I kind of think of it in the context of cars. Say you own two identical, high-horsepower sports cars, but one is in Germany and the other is in the States. You're going to get A LOT more enjoyment out of that car in Germany because of their more lax speed limits on certain public roadways (i.e.; sections of the Autobahn) and better tracks (i.e.; Nurburgring). Driving that exact same car State-side is going to feel like an afternoon of Driving Miss Daisy in comparison. So basically I think the Bucs and Falcons are Germany, and the Ravens are the U.S in the context of football. Give Flacco more responsibility and open up the offense a bit more, and then we'll see what's what.

Oh, I forgot to say that the one QB who occasionally gets put ahead of Flacco who absolutely drives me nuts is [u][b]Matt Stafford[/b][/u]. Nevermind that this guy can't stay healthy to save his life, but what exactly has he ever done when healthy for these talking heads and fans to continue to think he's going to be elite someday? It's absolutely unbelievable. I've watched highlights of him on Youtube and nfl.com, and he looks like an unpolished Flacco to me with far worse accuracy. Pair Calvin Johnson with Flacco (with an aggressive OC), and those two would put up absolutely ridiculous numbers. Stafford could possibly be one of the most overrated players out there right now.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Raving_Heathen' timestamp='1314982500' post='774415']

I think this is basically why so many people rank Freeman higher than Flacco. It's the same reason Ryan is almost universally ranked higher than Flacco. Like True said, Freeman (like Ryan) is the face of his franchise, and Flacco is not (even on offense, most people probably view Ray Rice as the spearhead). Both Freeman and Ryan, correctly or wrongly, are given credit for turning around and/or saving their respective franchises. Again, Flacco is not seen in that light. You can point to Flacco's superior playoff success and superior stats (against better defenses) until you're blue in the face, but many people (including those in Baltimore) see those things as a product of playing for a perennially elite organization. In other words, the Ravens are carrying Flacco, instead of the other way around.

I don't agree with that though. I belong to the school of thought that Flacco's ceiling and individual stats are actually HINDERED by being on the Ravens (how many Top 12 QBs have the Ravens had in their 15 years of existence? Exactly). I think it's the same "curse" that plagues Roethlisberger even now. Because the Ravens still have a stout D and are still a run-first team, Flacco hasn't been able to play to his strengths and instead has been relegated to being more of a game manager because that's all he needs to be for the team to win 90% of the time. But the fact is, data shows that Flacco IS one of the elite stretch vertical passers in this league, and this is DESPITE him playing in an offense lacking the philosophy or personnel to take advantage of his big arm. I kind of think of it in the context of cars. Say you own two identical, high-horsepower sports cars, but one is in Germany and the other is in the States. You're going to get A LOT more enjoyment out of that car in Germany because of their more lax speed limits on certain public roadways (i.e.; sections of the Autobahn) and better tracks (i.e.; Nurburgring). Driving that exact same car State-side is going to feel like an afternoon of Driving Miss Daisy in comparison. So basically I think the Bucs and Falcons are Germany, and the Ravens are the U.S in the context of football. Give Flacco more responsibility and open up the offense a bit more, and then we'll see what's what.

Oh, I forgot to say that the one QB who occasionally gets put ahead of Flacco who absolutely drives me nuts is [u][b]Matt Stafford[/b][/u]. Nevermind that this guy can't stay healthy to save his life, but what exactly has he ever done when healthy for these talking heads and fans to continue to think he's going to be elite someday? It's absolutely unbelievable. I've watched highlights of him on Youtube and nfl.com, and he looks like an unpolished Flacco to me with far worse accuracy. [b]Pair Calvin Johnson with Flacco (with an aggressive OC), and those two would put up absolutely ridiculous numbers[/b]. Stafford could possibly be one of the most overrated players out there right now.
[/quote]

Pair Stafford with a competent offensive line ... I'm sure pressure has [i]something[/i] to do with inaccuraccy, as well as his injury history.

[Kwothdaraven]

Aaron Rogers qb rating when playing from behind: 96

Joe Flacco: 99.6

Just sayin'



I'm not saying flacco is as good as aaron rogers but aaron did only throw 3 more tds and 200 more yards than flacco. Aaron also playing in a pass happy, 4wr set constant, offense with 3 stud recievers. Meanwhile flacco had 3 possession recievers in their 30s playing in an offensive scheme from the 70s. I'm sorry, but flacco is a stud. Prove me otherwise

[CHRISSY G69]

Flacco>over freeman nuff said [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/banana1.gif[/img] [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/banana1.gif[/img] [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/banana1.gif[/img]