ESPN First Take Debate

[scrock]

Just now on First Take they were talking about Mark Sanchez and his progression and he he has new weapons to throw to and he's not going to be as accurate or it might take some time to get it together.

Okay, how come a guy like Mark gets a pass but when Joe Flacco loses Mason and Todd Heap,,it seems like people dont take that into account. Why is there such a double standard? Like its okay if Mark struggles early because has has to overcome losing some pieces but when Joe Flacco loses some pieces its completely on him.....its ridiculous to me.

They discussed this on !st and 10 and their podcast of todays show will be online sometime later today...

Just irritates the hell out of me that Joe Flacco an Mark Sanchez aren't judged equally. Joe has to overcome some losses and make do with some rookies and 2nd year players. The one thing they did get right is Skip got on Mark for his poor accuracy throwing the ball....but other than that its the same old thing. Joe Flacco is like the ugly stepchild and every other young QB is chosen son.

ESPN sucks

[1/28/01]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1314716883' post='770774']
Just now on First Take they were talking about Mark Sanchez and his progression and he he has new weapons to throw to and [b]he's not going to be as accurate[/b] or it might take some time to get it together.

Okay, how come a guy like Mark gets a pass but when Joe Flacco loses Mason and Todd Heap,,it seems like people dont take that into account. Why is there such a double standard? Like its okay if Mark struggles early because has has to overcome losing some pieces but when Joe Flacco loses some pieces its completely on him.....its ridiculous to me.

They discussed this on !st and 10 and their podcast of todays show will be online sometime later today...

Just irritates the hell out of me that Joe Flacco an Mark Sanchez aren't judged equally. Joe has to overcome some losses and make do with some rookies and 2nd year players. The one thing they did get right is Skip got on Mark for his poor accuracy throwing the ball....but other than that its the same old thing. Joe Flacco is like the ugly stepchild and every other young QB is chosen son.

ESPN sucks
[/quote]

Thats hilarious!!! "That accurate" - when has he ever been accurate!!!!!?!???!? Hahahaha!

[lowrider]

You must not have watched the entire show because they started talking about the top 5 teams and they were talking about how the Ravens were better than the Jets and Skip Bayless himself said "I like Flacco and I think he is a better quarterback than Mark Sanchez". All of the experts on the panel were saying how the Ravens were in the top 3 or 4 teams in the league. They were giving Flacco credit.

Now I understand where you are coming from. Flacco does get a lot of heat when Sanchez seems to get a pass. When experts look at teams they look at what what is holding a team back from being great. Such as the Eagles and Steelers offensive line always gets a lot of heat, but the difference is at the position it isn't just one person, it is a unit. Qb is different since all the pressure is on that one individual over an entire unit. I think that people look at the potential of Flacco and the potential of the Ravens and they see what it could be, and see that Flacco has potential but isn't consistent yet. And so people are critical of it. Like how people are critical of Lebron. By the way people make it sound, you would think that Lebron is terrible. But people see how great he is, and they see that his flaw is the consistency in the fourth quarter. ESPN is the father that says you will never been good enough unless you are perfect. And for better or for worse whether it is fair or not, Flacco needs to be more consistent to impress people and be elite

[atljbo]

I was just about to say they gave Flacco some props at the end....

I think mostly everyone except Jets fans feel like Sanchez is a little over-rated.. The only reason why most feel like he is not full blown overrated because of his playoff success...

I think Flacco and Ryan are thought of different because they are going into their 4th year (as a starter)... They are looked at as seasoned QB's now... With sanchez all u hear about is how the guy only started 12 or 13 games in college ... They see him as less developed but once you hit that 4th year as a starting QB... Everybody can pretty much tell which way u are headed ... Elite, Pretty Good, Average, or Below Average

[scrock]

Just some ore proof that Skip Bayless makes idiotics comments, he says Mark Sanchez can lead his team to the SB and win it, a few days ago he said Joe Flacco had no chance to lead his team to the SB and win it...

its all a joke, Skip says ridiculous things

EDIT: THIS WAS JUST SAID...SKip says Mark Sachez can get it done and Joe cannot

honestly, Joe played so well his rookie year and he spoiled ppl , now anything less than winning it all is a failure..football is the ultimate TEAM game

[berad]

Eh, let the Ravens prove them wrong and see what they have to say after that.

Skip Bayless is a troll.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1314721184' post='770852']
Eh, let the Ravens prove them wrong and see what they have to say after that.

[b]Skip Bayless is a troll.[/b]
[/quote]

This. Add Skip's name to the list of people Joe can flip a finger to when (hopefully) he wins a Superbowl.

Anyone who thinks Mark Sanchez is anything better than mediocre at this point in time is either a Jets fan, deluded or both.

[Corvus]

You guys missed it last Friday then if you're complaining about this? I was off work so I had it on because they were gonna have Suggs on the phone to talk about the Skins game the night before. Nice little interview between him and Dana Jacobson, then she says "I'm gonna send you over to Skip he has something." Bayless immediately asks "Do you really think you can win a super bowl with Joe Flacco? Is there any shred of doubt?" (At this point its obvious he is just fishing for something to back up his view which just has to be right since its him) Suggs says: "Absolutely, no doubt in my mind", etc etc talking about how much Flacco has grown since his rookie year. Bayless retorts with the amazing "well I do have doubts" and proceeds to debate (I think his name is) Rob Parker over the issue, not before Suggs got on Bayless for ripping on LeBron James of all people haha, and Parker said it best: "This same team won the Super Bowl with an incredible defense and an average QB. Can they win it now with a very good defense and an above average QB, absolutely."

I don't take anything Bayless says seriously, but he is always good for a laugh. A week or two ago he was on there adamant that if Vince Young was given the opportunity he would win more games than Vick this year, hahahahahahaha.....

[Finally]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1314724293' post='770891']
Anyone who thinks Mark Sanchez is anything better than mediocre at this point in time is either a Jets fan, deluded or both.
[/quote]


I am sure you will find a few Jets fans that love him but you are going to find many more than recognize mediocrity when it is screaming from the roof top. Sanchez grew very little between season 1 and 2 and still played like a rookie. He admitted on NFLN that he and R.Ryan argued last year about benching him. If he doesn't put together a good season this year it will become pretty obvious his ceiling is too low for NFL success.

Flacco and that other guy do not even belong in the same sentence as each other.

[Ravens Beast]

Flacco isn't as glamorous as Sancheese that's really why Sancheese is given the pass. He is more marketable. It's a bunch of bologna if you ask me but that's why they always hype him up.

[flynismo]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1314721184' post='770852']
Skip Bayless is a troll.
[/quote]


hahaha

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravens Beast' timestamp='1314727565' post='770971']
Flacco isn't as glamorous as Sancheese that's really why Sancheese is given the pass. He is more marketable. It's a bunch of bologna if you ask me but that's why they always hype him up.
[/quote]


funny how a guy who bangs minors is more popular than Flacco is. Whatev...

[AsianRice]

I only watch NFL highlights on ESPN, not the debate cuz they mostly are prejudice.

I forsee the Ravens will surprise alot of the haters this year....count on it....

[edreedfromtheu]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1314716883' post='770774']
Just now on First Take they were talking about Mark Sanchez and his progression and he he has new weapons to throw to and he's not going to be as accurate or it might take some time to get it together.

Okay, how come a guy like Mark gets a pass but when Joe Flacco loses Mason and Todd Heap,,it seems like people dont take that into account. Why is there such a double standard? Like its okay if Mark struggles early because has has to overcome losing some pieces but when Joe Flacco loses some pieces its completely on him.....its ridiculous to me.

They discussed this on !st and 10 and their podcast of todays show will be online sometime later today...

Just irritates the hell out of me that Joe Flacco an Mark Sanchez aren't judged equally. Joe has to overcome some losses and make do with some rookies and 2nd year players. The one thing they did get right is Skip got on Mark for his poor accuracy throwing the ball....but other than that its the same old thing. Joe Flacco is like the ugly stepchild and every other young QB is chosen son.

ESPN sucks
[/quote]

According to many people on this board, Mason and Heap were somehow the problem. "The last couple years have been the fault of the receivers." That's why Flacco hasn't performed better, allegedly. So, Flacco got his new receivers... again. That's probably why the analysts aren't giving him the same pass they are giving Sanchez. Also, Sanchez's new receiver is coming from 2 years in Prison. 2 years out of football. And one of his new receivers is the same guy that was the problem here, allegedly. So you shouldn't even be counting Mason as a legitimate weapon for Sanchez. If Flacco's troubles can be pinned on Mason "not getting open and being too slow" then you have to give Sanchez the same excuse.

[True]

This might be an odd proclamation but I'll give it a shot..

Mark Sanchez plays in NY. He's a Cali guy and is all about that glitter and glamor that comes with being in a huge media market. That is why he gets so much attention and love from the media. Also IIRC First Take is based in New York so you can understand the love.

Joe Flacco on the other hand is more of that "old school" blue collar guy. Bring your lunch pail to work and get your job done. He doesn't need to make headlines to be relevant. He goes by the phrase "Let your game speak for you." I see it as a good fit and both QBs are in an ideal city that fits their personalities.

In a way it's like Joe Namath as Broadway Joe (Mark Sanchez) and Johnny Unitas as the blue collar person/player (Joe Flacco). However, I'll say that I see Flacco becoming more mature and starting to be more extroverted in his personality which can turn out to be very good for him to take control of the entire team.

[scrock]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1314718263' post='770794']
You must not have watched the entire show because they started talking about the top 5 teams and they were talking about how the Ravens were better than the Jets and Skip Bayless himself said "I like Flacco and I think he is a better quarterback than Mark Sanchez". All of the experts on the panel were saying how the Ravens were in the top 3 or 4 teams in the league. They were giving Flacco credit.

Now I understand where you are coming from. Flacco does get a lot of heat when Sanchez seems to get a pass. When experts look at teams they look at what what is holding a team back from being great. Such as the Eagles and Steelers offensive line always gets a lot of heat, but the difference is at the position it isn't just one person, it is a unit. Qb is different since all the pressure is on that one individual over an entire unit. I think that people look at the potential of Flacco and the potential of the Ravens and they see what it could be, and see that Flacco has potential but isn't consistent yet. And so people are critical of it. Like how people are critical of Lebron. By the way people make it sound, you would think that Lebron is terrible. But people see how great he is, and they see that his flaw is the consistency in the fourth quarter. ESPN is the father that says you will never been good enough unless you are perfect. And for better or for worse whether it is fair or not, Flacco needs to be more consistent to impress people and be elite
[/quote]

No I even watched it twice, Skip is SOLD on Mark Sanchez, I've heard him praise him before...yet he get Suggs on the phone and talk crap about Joe...of course Suggs laughs it off...Mark coulnt even hold Joe's jockey strpa

[scrock]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1314730002' post='771015']

[b]According to many people on this board, Mason and Heap were somehow the problem.[/b] "The last couple years have been the fault of the receivers." That's why Flacco hasn't performed better, allegedly. So, Flacco got his new receivers... again. That's probably why the analysts aren't giving him the same pass they are giving Sanchez. Also, Sanchez's new receiver is coming from 2 years in Prison. 2 years out of football. And one of his new receivers is the same guy that was the problem here, allegedly. So you shouldn't even be counting Mason as a legitimate weapon for Sanchez. If Flacco's troubles can be pinned on Mason "not getting open and being too slow" then you have to give Sanchez the same excuse.
[/quote]

yeah those guys were so horrible, what a problem to have in 2 reliable reveicers...the only reason Joe checks it down to them or Rice is because we lacked speed and he had to get rid of the wall of take a sack

[atljbo]

Sanchez has the best O-Line in the league.... Has weapons.... Has a great D.....

I think its more about the guy having a great team around him... But thats the same thing some say about Flacco... Even tho its the regular season.. Flacco has atleast put up numbers.

This the problem... When some say Flacco is better then Ryan because of his playoff games... Sanchez lovers will say that .. Making it to the AFC championship games and putting up good numbers in the playoffs... Thats why i dont think you cant base everything on pure numbers ... The different situations has to be part of it...

I would take Flacco over Sanchez (coming from a guy with no dog in a fight)

[1/28/01]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1314731175' post='771034']

yeah those guys were so horrible, what a problem to have in 2 reliable reveicers...the only reason Joe checks it down to them or Rice is because we lacked speed and he had to get rid of the wall of take a sack
[/quote]

This! But edreedfromtheu just likes to hear himself talk (slap the keyboard keys).

[Gordo52]

They also predict we'll go 9-7 next year...LOL

[Militant X 1]

i saw this segment.

~Mili

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1314727242' post='770964']


I am sure you will find a few Jets fans that love him but you are going to find many more than recognize mediocrity when it is screaming from the roof top. Sanchez grew very little between season 1 and 2 and still played like a rookie. He admitted on NFLN that he and R.Ryan argued last year about benching him. If he doesn't put together a good season this year it will become pretty obvious his ceiling is too low for NFL success.

Flacco and that other guy do not even belong in the same sentence as each other.
[/quote]

I agree with you, yet it always feels like Flacco is scrutinized WAY more than Sanchez (probably because I take note of the Flacco criticism). I don't understand why people doubt Flacco as the Ravens franchise QB yet believe Sanchez capable of fulfilling that role for the Jets.

[scrock]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1314732938' post='771070']
[b]Sanchez has the best O-Line in the league.... Has weapons.... Has a great D.....[/b]

[b]I think its more about the guy having a great team around him..[/b]. But thats the same thing some say about Flacco... Even tho its the regular season.. Flacco has atleast put up numbers.

This the problem... When some say Flacco is better then Ryan because of his playoff games... Sanchez lovers will say that .. Making it to the AFC championship games and putting up good numbers in the playoffs... Thats why i dont think you cant base everything on pure numbers ... The different situations has to be part of it...

I would take Flacco over Sanchez (coming from a guy with no dog in a fight)
[/quote]

Thats sooooo true, thats why i've been saying the Jets are going to waste 5 or 6 years on Mark because they think he's good but if
his team wasnt so good he'd be the one holding them back...well he already is but it would shot that Sanchez is nothing more than a backup in this leadue

[Ravens Beast]

I was tired of Sanchez as soon as he stepped foot on the field

[Finally]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1314735234' post='771135']

I agree with you, yet it always feels like Flacco is scrutinized WAY more than Sanchez (probably because I take note of the Flacco criticism). I don't understand why people doubt Flacco as the Ravens franchise QB yet believe Sanchez capable of fulfilling that role for the Jets.
[/quote]

Funny how that works. We are hardest on our own players but give others a free pass and everything said in the media is super-heightened when it is about one of our players.

With that said, to-date Sanchez has been seriously over-hyped. Will he grow into the role? I honestly don't know but because he takes press from Ryan I have to hope not because I am petty that way.

Didn't the Jets have 3 or 4 games last year without an offensive TD? Add to that he was nearly benched last year... they are making an even bigger joke of their "analysis" than normal.

Flacco and Ryan are sniffing elite. Sanchez is sniffing a back-up qb role.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1314746203' post='771328']

Funny how that works. We are hardest on our own players but give others a free pass and everything said in the media is super-heightened when it is about one of our players.

With that said, to-date Sanchez has been seriously over-hyped. Will he grow into the role? I honestly don't know but because he takes press from Ryan I have to hope not because I am petty that way.

Didn't the Jets have 3 or 4 games last year without an offensive TD? Add to that he was nearly benched last year... they are making an even bigger joke of their "analysis" than normal.

Flacco and Ryan are sniffing elite. Sanchez is sniffing a back-up qb role.
[/quote]

Off of the top of my head, the Jets didn't score a TD against us, the Packers or when they were routed by the Pats so you are correct. You're definitely right when you say we are hardest on our own players. Flacco is a perfect example.

I do however think that Sanchez has a fairly secure job as the Jets' starter. Whilst it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that he does so badly, he would have to completely lay an egg for him to be relegated to the bench permanently.

[CapoRocky]

It is simple. Just beat the squeelers and they will shut up.

[lowrider]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1314731101' post='771033']

No I even watched it twice, Skip is SOLD on Mark Sanchez, I've heard him praise him before...yet he get Suggs on the phone and talk crap about Joe...of course Suggs laughs it off...Mark coulnt even hold Joe's jockey strpa
[/quote]
There was definitely a spot where Skip said that he thought the Ravens qb was better than the Jets. I think mostly it was just friendly conversation with Suggs to create a funny conversation. Espn does it all the time. Good cop bad cop, and one guy takes one stance and the other person takes another stance. I firmly believe that Skip makes SOME stances just for the interest of his job. I highly doubt he scripts all of the points that he makes, and they are more or less given to him. Now granted I think that sometimes he makes comments I think he believes, but there is no way anyone can believe that Sanchez is better than Flacco. I'm definitely not going to lose sleep over this

[scrock]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1314730002' post='771015']

[b]According to many people on this board, Mason and Heap were somehow the problem. [/b] "The last couple years have been the fault of the receivers." That's why Flacco hasn't performed better, allegedly. So, Flacco got his new receivers... again. That's probably why the analysts aren't giving him the same pass they are giving Sanchez. Also, Sanchez's new receiver is coming from 2 years in Prison. 2 years out of football. And one of his new receivers is the same guy that was the problem here, allegedly. So you shouldn't even be counting Mason as a legitimate weapon for Sanchez. If Flacco's troubles can be pinned on Mason "not getting open and being too slow" then you have to give Sanchez the same excuse.
[/quote]

Having reliable pass catchers are the problem? Thats idiotic honestly...I know what they are thinking but when they type it out it comes out wrong, they think Joe had 'security blankets' and now that they are gone Joe has to 'mature' and throw to other receivers. That's good and bad, good because those guys were getting older and Mason was definitely slowing down, Heap was still good but he was always getting banged up. Now the bad, for as talented as the young guys are its all potential at this point. There is no experience there....now this year Joe has Lee Evans which they seem to have found a connection early on which is great. Then there is the unproven Torrey Smith, Tandon Doss, and even David Reed, who I think is a monster just waiting to be unleashed. I really do hope he gets involved in the offensive gameplan. He has good speed and he goes up and fights for balls. Ed Dickson and Dennis Pitta are both quality pass catching TEs, but they aren't very strong when it comes to blocking.

With all these changes people are like welll now Joe has to improve this year or else....or else? We just took away two of his most reliable targets and are replacing them with potential...Torrey, Doss, and David Reed all have potential to be good players..but none are proven.

That's why it wont surprise me at all if Joe takes a step back this year, then of course people will be cursing his name in the streets and calling for his head. I on the other hand understand what is going on, its going to be tough, if the OL can protect Joe and help get the run game going things will be a lot smoother. Joe is a damn good QB for this team and there are plenty of teams who wish they had a Joe Flacco on their team. There may be struggles early with the young guys trying to fill the big shoes left behind but in time I think Joe will bring them along, build their confidence and elevate their games. They have to....or we won't even be in the playoffs this year. Joe has all the tools to do it, but do the other guys? Are they ready to step up?

we shall see

[Ronthekeys]

I think we ravens fans just need to accept that Flacco will never get the credit he deserve until he wins us a superbowl. Even if he does they still might find things to say negative about him. We all kno what we have in Flacco and we kno what hes capable of. At the end of the day that's all that matter. He is one of the better QB in the league.