Flacco - Game Manager or ?

[atljbo]

Also... The Partiots offense last year were short pass base spread offense... The guys receiving the ball just collected yac yards... His Air yardage was low (yards thrown not adding yac yards) ... No one can tell me dude is a manager... Thats what his offense asked him to do tho... He mastered it with a MVP year...

[joashia]

If Flacco had a pro bowl receiver deep threat like white and a hall of fame Tight end on a offensive built team who plays in a weaker nfc division he'd have better numbers but d fact that he don't and that he has a bigger ARM and more accurate with pass (betting Ryan easily I'm both in Q.b. challenge) makes me feel great knowing he still has so much potential and Ryan has almost Reachef his ceiling. Go Ravens

[Raving_Heathen]

Speaking of Peyton and Brady, if you think about it, Ryan vs Flacco is kind of the second coming of that rivalry, at least on a slightly superficial level. I mean, ignoring the fact that Peyton and Brady weren't drafted together, and that Ryan and Flacco will probably never be as great as those two nor do they play in the same conference, there's tons of similarity in their situations. Specifically, Ryan = Peyton, and Flacco = Brady.

Like Peyton, Ryan was a very polished QB out of college and was expected to start right away. Like Brady, Flacco was more of a project and was slated from the get-go to be not even a backup, but basically a bench warmer (Brady- 4th stringer, Flacco- 3rd stringer). Like Brady, Flacco prematurely became a starter because of injuries to the QBs in front of him.

Like Peyton, Ryan went to a mediocre to bad team and was looked upon as their savior. Like Brady, Flacco went to a pretty good team that was a perennial playoff contender.

When Peyton came into the league, he had a young (2 yrs) Harrison. When Ryan came into the league, he had a young (3 yrs) White. Neither Harrison nor White made the Pro Bowl until after their respective QBs joined the team, after which point they made consecutive Pro Bowls. When Brady came into the league, he had 6-year veteran Troy Brown. When Flacco came into the league, he had 10^25-year veteran Derrick Mason. Both good receivers, but neither as good as Harrison and White.

The Colts added Reggie Wayne with their 1st round draft pick in Peyton's 4th year. The Falcons added Julio Jones with their 1st round draft pick in Ryan's 4th year.

Peyton made 2 Pro Bowls his first 3 years in the league, while Brady only made 1. The same ratio holds for Ryan/Flacco (is 1:0 the same as 2:1? lol).

Like Peyton, Ryan cannot win a playoff game to save his life early on in his career. Like Brady, Flacco has had more success in the playoffs, even if they're considered by most to be "team wins".

Like the Colts without Peyton, the Falcons without Ryan probably aren't very good. Like Brady, Flacco is regarded early in his career by many as a game manager and as such, some regard him as easily replaceable and overrated. Thus the media fawned over Peyton/Ryan, and rarely gave any credit to Brady/Flacco.

Like Brady did with Peyton, once Flacco was given a legitimate big play, deep threat WR, he was finally able to show that he was every bit as good as, if not better than, Ryan. Then like they had to do with Brady, the media was forced to eat crow for all the negative things they said about Flacco. This last part obviously hasn't happened yet, but if form holds true, it will. lol.

[Radinho84]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1314317261' post='764439']
And btw, last year was not some statistical abberation. This is the second year in a row Ryan has scorched defenses for 6.5 YPA (actually, 6.47 YPA in 2009).
[/quote]
well. he improved. lol

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

Trying to stay completely away from Ryan/Flacco, there is one major thing which clearly some people don't understand about Flacco's contribution to this team. The misconception that the defense still carries the offense. That's no longer true, we saw it a lot last year, we saw it last night as well. The offense, thanks to Joe, now has a bigger part to play in winning games. Granted, the offense was at times lethargic last year, but I believe we wouldn't have won a lot of the games that we did if it hadn't been for Joe leading our offense down the field at times.

[Raven43hike]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1314316588' post='764385']
I got both on my FF team. Ryan was drafted 3 rounds before Joe. Man people are idiots. They are the same talent level. Which isn't elite btw.
[/quote]
Joe is the best QB baltimore has had so far but but I agree he isnt elite by a long shot giving time barring injury he could develope into one.

[Finally]

[quote name='Ngata Chance' timestamp='1314316611' post='764387']
Because Flacco is a Raven. I have a feeling if the roles were reversed, and we had Ryan, the media/pundits/experts would be hailing Flacco as the 2nd coming.
[/quote]


I have seen this type of comment here several times and I don't get it. We were the number 1 seed in the NFC last year and everyone is spending all of their time with the Eagles and, of course, the Cowboys. We have very few fans in the media. Guys like Dilfer and Dukes have no problem showing their dislike for Ryan and company.

Ryan did get more love during their first offseason just because he was drafted higher and because of the situation he was going into but that ended pretty quick.

Do a search for Falcons under the radar and you will get articles going back several years. Here is one at the end of last year when we were having a great year:

[url="http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2010/12/falcons_ryan_stays_under_radar.html"]http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2010/12/falcons_ryan_stays_under_radar.html[/url]

[atljbo]

Yea.. I think because they feel like Flacco is undervalued in the media... They feel Ryan is over undervalued.

As a falcon fan... At the beginning of last year... We heard Michael Lombardi (who now have Ryan in his top 10 QB's) say that Ryan regressed and some in the organization doubt him... Jamie Dukes said the same thing (now he is a Matt Ryan fan) ... So did Trent Dilfer who ragged on Ryan bad ( Now Ryan is ranked 3rd best QB in 2010 in the new QBR system he help make) .


I dont think the Raven fans saw the negative stuff these guys said about Ryan... Ryan won them over with his play last year...

Ryan's entering his rookie year... He got a lot of pub because of the situation he walked into... But after that... I think he has been rated rightly.... Not Elite... But in that 2nd tier right now.

I do think Flacco dont get his due respect but i also kinda get why some doubters say what they say.... Fair or not.. The guy does have a really good D to lean on.... That shouldnt deduct from what he has done but as a guy jumping off my roof.. It would make me more comfortable jumping off my knowing i have 2 king size mattresses to land on then me jumping off my bed on a twin size bed... To me what hurts the most is the guys that play against saying the things they said.... They dont got to like you.... They just need to respect you.. Flacco has the weapons... He can make them do that this year

[mgridda]

I agree with you entirely, Fly but I'd just add one thing:

I think reputations take a long time to change, but they eventually do. Just two years ago Flacco's #1 receiver was his runningback. We didn't have great receivers, but it made Flacco look like a dump-off QB. Last year he was second only to Peyton Manning for shots taken downfield and had an impressive 7.4 YPA.

With time, this reputation of Flacco's will go away.

One thing that makes me - as a fan - think Flacco's more of a "game manager" is because since the Bengals game he seems to be [b]very careful with the Football.[/b] Last season, since that game, he only threw 6 interceptions (as a 3rd year QB, against tough competition defensively). Watching him yesterday I often saw him have that same sort of self-restraint in forcing the Football.

Often it looks like Flacco is throwing into tight coverages, but that's after the ball hits the receiver's hands. When Flacco makes the decision to throw the ball, they're open, and then later Dickson is bracketed by receivers or Boldin is right behind 2 receivers. The fan in me wishes he just let it rip and take a high risk shot at the defense, but Flacco knows better and if it's not there he just doesn't take it.

The problem I have is that perhaps the routes are really complex because it seems like every route is an option route in Cam Cameron's system. So if it's not there, then Flacco stays staring at his receiver to change it to the other option. Like in any one route instead of there being one break, there are several and Flacco has to wait for the 2nd break in this guys route or the 3rd break in this guy's route. Other offenses just have one break so the QB will look in one direction, it's not there so he looks somewhere else, it's not there, somewhere else. In that same time frame Flacco is just looking at one receiver through his 1st, 2nd, 3rd, break.

[Natty Boh]

Anytime all the Flacco critics start getting me down and doubting his abilities...I just watch this video and it reminds me of what Flacco can do.

I recommend it to all.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBiiWMznrSY&feature=fvwrel"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBiiWMznrSY&feature=fvwrel[/url]

[POE]

To me a game manager is just there to not turn the ball over and to not take risks. Dilfer comes to mind when I think about what a game manager is. Flacco is not that folks. He is a play maker who can make any throw to any part of the field. It's no secret that Joe needs time in the pocket, relies on plays from a extremely talented RB, and sometimes makes mistakes. What QB out there doesn't need that, want that, or do that? I can't wait to see what he can do with this offense this season!

[Kwothdaraven]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1314375306' post='767421']



I have seen this type of comment here several times and I don't get it. We were the number 1 seed in the NFC last year and everyone is spending all of their time with the Eagles and, of course, the Cowboys. We have very few fans in the media. Guys like Dilfer and Dukes have no problem showing their dislike for Ryan and company.

Ryan did get more love during their first offseason just because he was drafted higher and because of the situation he was going into but that ended pretty quick.

Do a search for Falcons under the radar and you will get articles going back several years. Here is one at the end of last year when we were having a great year:

[url="http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2010/12/falcons_ryan_stays_under_radar.html"]http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2010/12/falcons_ryan_stays_under_radar.html[/url]
[/quote]

What? Every single time I goto espn.com I see a front page article about the falcons or matt ryan. Ever signle person in the media rides matt ryans balls.

[ellicottraven]

Well the fact is that the Ravens or their players are never going to get enough credit. When you analyse the stats of Flacco vs Ryan, it is clear Flacco is the better QB but, Ryan is a media darling and will remain so till Flacco starts beating some elite QBs. It begins with the demolition of the Steelers week 1. If he throws 3 TDs which I anticipate he will, the chatter will get more positive in favor of Flacco...

I feel it is insulting to even compare Ryan with Flacco because Flacco is clearly superior...

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1315417631' post='780017']
Well the fact is that the Ravens or their players are never going to get enough credit. When you analyse the stats of Flacco vs Ryan, it is clear Flacco is the better QB but, Ryan is a media darling and will remain so till Flacco starts beating some elite QBs. It begins with the demolition of the Steelers week 1. If he throws 3 TDs which I anticipate he will, the chatter will get more positive in favor of Flacco...

I feel it is insulting to even compare Ryan with Flacco because Flacco is clearly superior...
[/quote]

I wouldn't say Flacco is clearly a better QB but you are 100% correct about Ryan being the media darling and that Flacco will only get such love if he starts beating the Steelers more regularly.

[flynismo]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1315417862' post='780021']

I wouldn't say Flacco is clearly a better QB but you are 100% correct about Ryan being the media darling and that Flacco will only get such love if he starts beating the Steelers more regularly.
[/quote]

Statistically speaking, I think Flacco is a little better. Stats aren't everything though...I think Ryan has more/better intangibles of the two, and closes the gap.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1315420870' post='780086']

Statistically speaking, I think Flacco is a little better. Stats aren't everything though...I think Ryan has more/better intangibles of the two, and closes the gap.
[/quote]

Exactly, which is why I disagree with ellicottraven's point that Flacco is clearly better. But he definitely is more than just a game manager for us.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Natty Boh' timestamp='1315363007' post='779576']
Anytime all the Flacco critics start getting me down and doubting his abilities...I just watch this video and it reminds me of what Flacco can do.

I recommend it to all.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBiiWMznrSY&feature=fvwrel[/media]
[/quote]

i can't lie! this video brought tears to my eyes. Joe Flacco is AWESOME!!!

this cat can throw the deep ball like no one else! he's accurate and he got some wheels to scramble out as well!

now that he is going into his 4th season as our starter....i just want Joe to play like this ALL OF THE TIME!!

great video!!

~Mili

[flynismo]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1315498174' post='781046']

i can't lie! this video brought tears to my eyes. Joe Flacco is AWESOME!!!

this cat can throw the deep ball like no one else! he's accurate and he got some wheels to scramble out as well!

now that he is going into his 4th season as our starter....i just want Joe to play like this ALL OF THE TIME!!

great video!!

~Mili
[/quote]


Yeah, it's why I don't understand all the hate towards him ... we all know he needs refinement, but why does no one remember how talented he is??

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1315498174' post='781046']

i can't lie!  this video brought tears to my eyes.  Joe Flacco is AWESOME!!!

this cat can throw the deep ball like no one else!  he's accurate and he got some wheels to scramble out as well!

now that he is going into his 4th season as our starter....i just want Joe to play like this ALL OF THE TIME!!

great video!!

~Mili
[/quote]
Oh Mase.....