Why Do We Argue Over Flacco?

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1314044733' post='760098']
[b]I understand what you're saying about him not throwing one in yet[/b], but he led the drive where Rice scored. He attributed to 7 more points. I want more as well, [b]but lets be real here[/b]. Wasn't that drive the one with Evans' 43 yarder followed by Rice's 26 yard TD scamper?
[/quote]

i can't get more real this!

of course Flacco was instrumental in Rice's TD scamper that goes without saying. but....did he "THROW" a TD yet to one of his receivers in 2 preseason games? NO!

~Mili

[Ravens Beast]

We argue about Flacco because some people are pessimistic and it wouldn't matter if we had Tom Brady as our QB they'd still complain.

The fact that Flacco is still young and taking leaps and bounds of improvement towards elite status doesn't satisfy some people. They want a superstar NOW. But Flacco will never get superstar notoriety because a QB out of the Ravens organization isn't glamorous enough for ESPN. He's good. He will be great. You'll see.

[colljb9]

quick stat for you guys, the colts have lost more games in the preseason since 2005 then theyve lost in all of those regular seasons combined. Im not even close to arguing flacco is near manning but just as an example the preseason really doesnt matter. Stats like the one crabcakesandfootball brought up matter...that is showing the progression of flacco from his rookie year in the playoffs to last year in the playoffs. Also i saw a few people focus on the fact flacco hasnt thrown a TD pass yet...stop being spoiled by looking at brady and mannings TDs every year. If we average 28 points a game and flacco enginees 3 rushing touchdown drives a game and throws 1 touchdown a game who the hell cares. He didnt turn the ball over and kept the chains moving and we scored a touchdown. I couldnt care less if flacco throws 8 touchdowns next year but if he doesnt turn it over, makes good audible reads, and puts us in a position to win thats a quarterback whose helping his team.

I like to compare Flacco to a young kevin youkilis...he was the best hitter and isnt very fast...but he plays solid defense and knows how to get on base. Elite stats are nice, but id much rather have a winner.

[Ravens Beast]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1314052291' post='760240']

i can't get more real this!

of course Flacco was instrumental in Rice's TD scamper that goes without saying. but....did he "THROW" a TD yet to one of his receivers in 2 preseason games? NO!

~Mili
[/quote]
So if Tom Brady was on our team and he threw no TDs in his first preseason games should it be time to rethink the QB position? No. Get out of here. It's preseason.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1314052291' post='760240']

i can't get more real this!

of course Flacco was instrumental in Rice's TD scamper that goes without saying.  but....did he "THROW" a TD yet to one of his receivers in 2 preseason games?  NO!

~Mili
[/quote]

I agree and I am not questioning that part. But, Flacco did contribute to the Rice score and that is all I was adding.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Ravens Beast' timestamp='1314053115' post='760263']
So if Tom Brady was on our team and he threw no TDs in his first preseason games [b]should it be time to rethink the QB position[/b]? No. Get out of here. It's preseason.
[/quote]

did you mention Tom Brady? lol!

where in my posts about Flacco not throwing TDs in 2 preseason games so far, did i say that we should [b][i]"rethink the QB position?" [/i][/b]unbelievable! another Flacco defender quick to assume stuff in a hasty response. slow down next time and read carefully before you rush in to say something son! smh!

~Mili

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1314054243' post='760281']
I agree and I am not questioning that part. But, Flacco did contribute to the Rice score and that is all I was adding.
[/quote]

you are focusing on Flacco's contribution to a "rushing" TD. not me! can we talk about his contribution (after 2 preseason games w/him and the first team and by his playing nearly 3 qrtrs on thursday night) to a "passing" TD? the reality? we can't! that is my point! i am not saying that he will never throw one. i just want to see more production in that area.

~Mili

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1314054566' post='760286']


you are focusing on Flacco's contribution to a "rushing" TD. not me! can we talk about his contribution (after 2 preseason games w/him and the first team and by his playing nearly 3 qrtrs on thursday night) to a "passing" TD? the reality? we can't! that is my point! i am not saying that he will never throw one. i just want to see more production in that area.

~Mili
[/quote]
Dude, not making a big deal about any of it. Simply pointing out the one part I didn't agree with. You said Flacco had contributed 6 points (2 FGs) during the first 2 preseason games, when its not true. That's all.....

I think its everyones opinion that we wish we would have seen 3, 4, 5 TDs so far by the first team offense. Not really something that's even debatable cause its common sense.

[FerrariFan87]

Unfortunately, the TD we scored came against KC's second defense...

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1314055409' post='760293']
[b]Dude, not making a big deal about any of it. [/b] Simply pointing out the one part I didn't agree with. You said Flacco had contributed 6 points (2 FGs) during the first 2 preseason games, when its not true. That's all.....

I think its everyones opinion that we wish we would have seen 3, 4, 5 TDs so far by the first team offense. Not really something that's even debatable cause its common sense.
[/quote]

Dude, i never said you were making a big deal of this. and to me..this is nowhere near a debate! gamefilm is clear! in 2 preseason games so far and with the first team and after playing nearly 3 qrtrs with the first team, Flacco has not thrown a passing TD. bottomline! there is nothing to argue there! there is nothing to defend there! it is what it is!

~Mili

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1314055561' post='760295']
Unfortunately, [b]the TD we scored came against KC's second defense[/b]...
[/quote]

yes sir!

~Mili

[Ravens Beast]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1314054326' post='760283']

did you mention Tom Brady? lol!

where in my posts about Flacco not throwing TDs in 2 preseason games so far, did i say that we should [b][i]"rethink the QB position?" [/i][/b]unbelievable! another Flacco defender quick to assume stuff in a hasty response. slow down next time and read carefully before you rush in to say something son! smh!

~Mili
[/quote]
So you complaining about Flacco not doing well in the preseason (not throwing TDs) is supposed to mean what? Are you just complaining about something and not offering a solution? So you are basically not adding anything to the argument for or against Flacco. You are just whining.

I did read your post carefully Dad. SMH.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Ravens Beast' timestamp='1314057182' post='760316']
So you complaining about Flacco not doing well in the preseason (not throwing TDs) is supposed to mean what? Are you just complaining about something and not offering a solution? [b]So you are basically not adding anything to the argument for or against Flacco.[/b] You are just whining.

I did read your post carefully Dad. SMH.
[/quote]

sooo, you want things to be black or white where Flacco is concerned with us Ravens fans? so, if i speak well of him...that means i am for him? but, if i speak negatively of him....that means i am against him? interesting! my stating that Flacco has not thrown passingTDs in 2 preseason games so far doesn't mean that i am against him. but keeping it real...he hasn't! nothing to argue there! now...will he? i sure hope so! i like Flacco and want him and our first team offense to do well in both preseason and the regular season. that is my mentality! but i don't watch him or his performances with purple glasses and while drinking purple soda. i can speak my views and opinions (positive or negative) about his gameplay and still like the man.

~Mili

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1314058216' post='760334']

sooo, you want things to be black or white where Flacco is concerned with us Ravens fans?  so, if i speak well of him...that means i am for him?  but, if i speak negatively of him....that means i am against him?  my stating that Flacco has not thrown passingTDs in 2 preseason games doesn't mean that i am against him.  but keeping it real...he hasn't!  will he?  i sure hope so!  i like Flacco and want him and expect him to do well in the regular season.  but i don't watch him or his performances with purple glasses and while drinking [b]purple soda[/b].  i can speak my truth and opinion (positive or negative) about his gameplay and still like the man.

~Mili
[/quote]

Would that be grape soda? Man, I love that stuff!!

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1314058309' post='760335']
Would that be grape soda? Man, I love that stuff!!
[/quote]

of course! Welch's grape soda all day! but the word "purple" went with my purple glasses analogy. lol!

~Mili

[Marc2k6]

We argue over Flacco because we want to see him be the best he can be! I'm saving all of my positive and negative rants for the regular season and hopefully thing will start to gel within the next few weeks so that I can have positive rants!

[mhead66]

The best part of this thread is... I think it may continue even more intensely this weekend.

The Skins have played 2 games:

vs. Pittsburgh, they won 16-7, and gave up a total of 103 passing yards.
vs. Indy, they won 16-3, and gave up a total of 95 passing yards.

And NO TD passes in either game...

If Flacco doesn't thrive this week, this thread will be SMOKING!!! [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]

Actually, the 3rd preseason game is the game the starters play the longest... so if Joe [b]still[/b] struggles, then some concern could creep in.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1314062155' post='760436']
The best part of this thread is... I think it may continue even more intensely this weekend. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
[/quote]
And that's exactly why I started it. I knew it'd be a conversation-starter.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1314062155' post='760436']
The best part of this thread is... I think it may continue even more intensely this weekend.

The Skins have played 2 games:

vs. Pittsburgh, they won 16-7, and gave up a total of 103 passing yards.
vs. Indy, they won 16-3, and gave up a total of 95 passing yards.

[b]And NO TD passes in either game... [/b]

If Flacco doesn't thrive this week, this thread will be SMOKING!!!

Actually, the 3rd preseason game is the game the starters play the longest... so if Joe [u][b]still[/b] [/u]struggles, then some concern could creep in.
[/quote]

personally, i couldn't careless about what a QB on another team is doing this preseason.

i am a Ravens fan and only care about the cat that is leading my Ravens offense....Joe Flacco! unlike most here...i expect Joe and our first team offense to do well in [b]BOTH [/b]the preseason and regular season games! that is the competitor in me! so my stating what he hasn't done so far in 2 games (throwing for TDs) is an indicator that i want to see him improve in that area. cause if not....it may be shades of a stalled offense (3 and out and settling for FGs) that we experienced last season. however, i can't wait for thursday night to see if Joe will be able to throw a few TDs and lead the Ravens first team down the field smoothly and convincingly! i hope so!

~Mili

[flynismo]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1314065499' post='760497']
And that's exactly why I started it. I knew it'd be a conversation-starter. [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
[/quote]


haha, I figured...the only time Franny makes a thread is when the forum is stale and needs something interesting to talk about.

[flynismo]

I read the article. The 'blank slate' theory is interesting, but lacking in some ways. I think it's simpler than that. We argue about Flacco because that's what fans do. You should see the Falcons forum after a loss...all the "noodle arm" comments about Ryan start coming out.

[Thepurplehaze]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1314075225' post='760645']
I read the article. The 'blank slate' theory is interesting, but lacking in some ways. I think it's simpler than that. We argue about Flacco because that's what fans do. You should see the Falcons forum after a loss...all the "noodle arm" comments about Ryan start coming out.
[/quote]
Damn unoriginal Falcons fans. Carson Palmer was donned "noodle arm" a few years ago on the Bengals forums.

[gabefergy]

I agree, but I had to fix it for you.

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1314045862' post='760113']
I argue over Flacco because what many people see as his failures, I see as a quarterback maturing, taking his lumps, and going through growing pains. It's easy to look at guys like Brady, Manning, Brees, Rivers, Rodgers, etc. and say, "Hey, they did this and Flacco hasn't yet." It's hard for a lot of fans, I think, to sit back and say, "Okay, here's a guy who was drafted with the expectation that he'd ride the bench for a season or two, learn under Kyle Boller and Troy Smith (what he could really learn from either I don't know) or some other veteran, and then come out and play. Instead, he was thrust into a starting role that nobody, including me, thought he was ready for, and he responded by helping lead us to three straight playoff appearances. I think the old adage "perception is reality" also holds true here. Much of the media gushes over quarterbacks like Matt Ryan, Mark Sanchez, Sam Bradford, and Josh Freeman because they were big name quarterbacks at big time programs in college. Flacco came out of a [b]Div1AA school after transferring from Pitt[/b], but wasn't really noticed until the postseason of his senior year and at the Senior Bowl and All-Star challenges, etc. I think most people didn't know what to make of Flacco when he came out, and because he wasn't a big name from a big program, people expected him to fail like so many others before him. When I try to evaluate him, I say, "Is he better than he was last year?" and every year for the past three the answer has been yes to me. I expect him to be even better this year, and I'll be satisfied with that.
[/quote]

[Ravensstrike4424]

flacco is fine, he is our franchise quarterback,i dont know why people choose to give him crap so what if he misses a few passes that will happen give him a break.

[mhead66]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1314066826' post='760520']

personally, i couldn't careless about what a QB on another team is doing this preseason.

i am a Ravens fan and only care about the cat that is leading my Ravens offense....Joe Flacco! unlike most here...i expect Joe and our first team offense to do well in [b]BOTH [/b]the preseason and regular season games! that is the competitor in me! so my stating what he hasn't done so far in 2 games (throwing for TDs) is an indicator that i want to see him improve in that area. cause if not....it may be shades of a stalled offense (3 and out and settling for FGs) that we experienced last season. however, i can't wait for thursday night to see if Joe will be able to throw a few TDs and lead the Ravens first team down the field smoothly and convincingly! i hope so!

~Mili
[/quote]
I get you, it would be better to see Flacco do great in a meaningless game, then do lousy in a meaningless game.

I like Cris Collinsworth's point of view on preseason games:

"Repeat After Me: I Will Not Be Fooled By PRESEASON Football"

"I am now 52 years old. [b]Every year I tell myself and anyone who will listen to NEVER pay any attention to what you see in preseason games[/b]. The teams play schemes that wouldn't fool a decent high school coach. Repeat after me, it is all about personnel. Watch players, not teams. I really am not lecturing anybody, I am just talking to myself. Every year I watch preseason games and end up believing my eyes and not my brain (Right, Ted Ginn. Don't even go there Clem). I know better. But, I am always so excited for the start of the season, I start analyzing games that don't matter. Preseason is played by guys who either won't be there, or don't want to be there. And yet, every year I start drawing conclusions that are no more valid than my opinions on European Opera..."

[url="http://footballpros.com/content.php/1067-Repeat-After-Me-I-Will-Not-Be-Fooled-By-PRESEASON-Football"]http://footballpros.com/content.php/1067-Repeat-After-Me-I-Will-Not-Be-Fooled-By-PRESEASON-Football[/url]

[Guest DrVenture45]

I agree 100% with Alexir. After 4 seasons, Flacco should have improved by now. His demeanor on field has nothing to do with his ability as a QB. I don't care about how quiet he is verbally, but I do care about action and reaction. One caller on 105.7 The Fan, commented that Flacco had cement shoes for goodness sake. Since everyone has a right to an opinion of Flacco, what I want to see is that natural, think-on-your-toes saavy that a really strong QB has. Most fans agree that he'll get there, that he's going to be great... I'm just curious to know when that will be. Maybe season 5 will be the clincher, or 6... at the least 8... of course 10 is a nice round number...

[i82much]

Flacco is very good, not great. Most of the time, he makes good decisions but it always looks like he's just not thinking *quite* fast enough. Manning, Brady, Rogers are guys who are always a step ahead of the defense. Flacco isn't a step ahead mentally like those guys, but he compensates by physical ability.

That said, he's a fourth year qb who has continually improved. Particularly, his decision making skills have improved. There are plenty of great qb's who took time to fully develop and it seems to me Flacco has a chance to be great. But he's not great yet.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='DrVenture45' timestamp='1314111741' post='760896']
I agree 100% with Alexir. After 4 seasons, Flacco should have improved by now. His demeanor on field has nothing to do with his ability as a QB. I don't care about how quiet he is verbally, but I do care about action and reaction. One caller on 105.7 The Fan, commented that Flacco had cement shoes for goodness sake. Since everyone has a right to an opinion of Flacco, what I want to see is that natural, think-on-your-toes saavy that a really strong QB has. Most fans agree that he'll get there, that he's going to be great... I'm just curious to know when that will be. Maybe season 5 will be the clincher, or 6... at the least 8... of course 10 is a nice round number...
[/quote]

I will respond after 4 seasons

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1314099326' post='760735']
I get you, [b]it would be better to see Flacco do great in a meaningless game, then do lousy in a meaningless game[/b].

I like Cris Collinsworth's point of view on preseason games:

"Repeat After Me: I Will Not Be Fooled By PRESEASON Football"

"I am now 52 years old. [b]Every year I tell myself and anyone who will listen to NEVER pay any attention to what you see in preseason games[/b]. The teams play schemes that wouldn't fool a decent high school coach. Repeat after me, it is all about personnel. Watch players, not teams. I really am not lecturing anybody, I am just talking to myself. Every year I watch preseason games and end up believing my eyes and not my brain (Right, Ted Ginn. Don't even go there Clem). I know better. But, I am always so excited for the start of the season, I start analyzing games that don't matter. Preseason is played by guys who either won't be there, or don't want to be there. And yet, every year I start drawing conclusions that are no more valid than my opinions on European Opera..."

[url="http://footballpros.com/content.php/1067-Repeat-After-Me-I-Will-Not-Be-Fooled-By-PRESEASON-Football"]http://footballpros....SEASON-Football[/url]

[img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com//public/style_emoticons/default/wink.png[/img]
[/quote]

i dig all of this!

however, my view of preseason gameplay is different from most. while the games played themselves "don't count" the game play of the personnel does imo! based upon how these cats perform in the preseason will determine who makes the squad and who gets cut. right? of course! therefore, with that being said....preseason is the time for any team to see what they are working with. sure, i understand that a 4-0 preseason team may be a bust in the regular season and a 0-4 preseason team may end up winning the SB. i get all of that! my point in all of this is the same! we've watched 2 games so far and i am still waiting to see improvements in various parts of our offense but mostly with Joe's leadership and his connection with the WRs/TEs to the degree that he can smoothly and convincingly march the Ravens offense down the field and "pass" for TDs while he is in with the 1st team. hopefully, i will see that thursday night!

~Mili

[Finally]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1314075225' post='760645']
I read the article. The 'blank slate' theory is interesting, but lacking in some ways. I think it's simpler than that. We argue about Flacco because that's what fans do. You should see the Falcons forum after a loss...all the "noodle arm" comments about Ryan start coming out.
[/quote]


To be fair most of the "noodle arm" comments come from Vick lovers however when Ryan got off to a slow start last year it had even some of the die-hard Ryan lovers questioning their QB. The playoff loss certainly didn't help.

Saints fans were giving up on Brees last year. Philly fans have trashed Vick because of last week. I bet if Manning has another set of bad games this year it might even get Colts fans to question him.

The really funny part in all of this is if you visit enough boards for teams without true QBs they would give their first-born children for a QB some here heavily criticize.

Stat-wise Ryan and Flacco have both risen to the top and they may not be sitting at the elite table yet but there is a spot reserved for them and the water glasses have already been filled. They just need to develop a little more and unfortunately that just takes time.