(Torrey) Smith Is A Project WR Compared To Reed/Doss/Williams

[scrock]

David Reed is the 3rd WR at this point, Cam says he's ahead of the other guys at this point because he's been in the system longer

Honestly, I've said for a while that David Reed is a playmaker, he's got speed and can catch, he knows the offense, I think he's our #3 WR and I think he'll do well

[Milton145]

I like Torrey and think he's performed wayyyyy better than people give him credit for, but I'm extremely happy that David Reed is the 3rd receiver. Dude is a playmaker.

[flynismo]

[quote name='bscott57' timestamp='1314043648' post='760067']

Lets hope he is Clayton and not Travis Taylor....
[/quote]


How about neither? I dont want another wasted high draft pick

[Wacko4Zacko]

Reed before Doss. Fact is that Reed knows playbook and offense more then Doss. Reed is more suitable to be the 3rd guy.

[ravensdfan]

I never hated the Torrey pick. I still believe in the kid and I think he will contribute this season, just not right out of the gate. He is not yet NFL starter ready. This is all. It is not an insult nor does it mean he is a bust. Reed is ahead of both Torrey and Doss IMO. Doss is ahead of Torrey right now. It will come for Torrey. He just is not there quite yet.

[colljb9]

im just still very confused...when did it become the norm for a rookie to step into the starting line up and instantly be a top 3 player on their side of the ball? Torrey smith only having one catch in 2 preseason games in a lockout year being covered by Nnamdi and brandon flowers? Peyton manning threw 28 interceptions his rookie year to 26 touchdowns and went 3 and 13...and look where he is now. I dont believe guys can be busts until after 3 years of experience unless they are always injured or for another reason never see the field.

[Reed the Raven]

Regardless of if he's performed in the preaseason or not he is a "project". He catches with his body and doesn't run great routes; but he's a great athlete and has a lot of natural talent. He'll eventually get to the point where we expect him to be, because he's already starting to catch the ball with his hands more and he's getting better at route running as expected. Just give him some time and his attitude, work ethic and character will make him the best Wide Receiver in Ravens' history.

[Radinho84]

[quote name='colljb9' timestamp='1314070149' post='760600']
im just still very confused...when did it become the norm for a rookie to step into the starting line up and instantly be a top 3 player on their side of the ball? Torrey smith only having one catch in 2 preseason games in a lockout year being covered by Nnamdi and brandon flowers? Peyton manning threw 28 interceptions his rookie year to 26 touchdowns and went 3 and 13...and look where he is now. I dont believe guys can be busts until after 3 years of experience unless they are always injured or for another reason never see the field.
[/quote]
i am totally with you. people judge way too fast and basing theire judgement on way too less facts.
it´s just ridicolous to say a player is good or bad after two preseason games. one can only shake his had about some people in here...

time for the season to start that those talks could become real...

[Tiz]

[quote name='Reed the Raven' timestamp='1314070333' post='760605']
Regardless of if he's performed in the preaseason or not he is a "project". He catches with his body and doesn't run great routes; but he's a great athlete and has a lot of natural talent. He'll eventually get to the point where we expect him to be, because he's already starting to catch the ball with his hands more and he's getting better at route running as expected. Just give him some time and his attitude, work ethic and character will make him the best Wide Receiver in Ravens' history.
[/quote]

Non of that makes him a project
Trying to turn a qb into a wr is a project
Moving a de to olb is a projrct
Drafting a wr to play wr is not.

Torrey is going to be fine, as someone mentioned we are talking about rookie wrs. They will develop. Not to say he is going to be jerry rice but rice had issues as a rook.

Why people expect him to be dominant right from the first snap is beyond me. People act like he was taken 1st overall.
Torrey and tandon will contribute this year and continue to develop going forward

[PuRock]

[quote name='Tiz' timestamp='1314106097' post='760815']
Non of that makes him a project
Trying to turn a qb into a wr is a project
Moving a de to olb is a projrct
Drafting a wr to play wr is not.
[/quote]

i.e.
Drafting Cousins is a project.

[colljb9]

As someones mentioned before go take a look of a replay of the bengals game...Aj green had 1 catch, dropped like 2 balls, and one of those dropped balls led to an interception. This guy was supposed to step in and be a game changing rookie wide reciever and im not really seeing it yet but is he a bust. Heck no i bet he'll be very good but rookies cannot be held to high expectations all the time we need to give them time to develop

[Reed the Raven]

[quote name='Tiz' timestamp='1314106097' post='760815']
Non of that makes him a project
Trying to turn a qb into a wr is a project
Moving a de to olb is a projrct
Drafting a wr to play wr is not.

Torrey is going to be fine, as someone mentioned we are talking about rookie wrs. They will develop. Not to say he is going to be jerry rice but rice had issues as a rook.

Why people expect him to be dominant right from the first snap is beyond me. People act like he was taken 1st overall.
Torrey and tandon will contribute this year and continue to develop going forward
[/quote]

Sure it does. A project is something that needs work, so you can make it the best you can and you could say every rookie and even some veteran players need work. But to me there are more noticeable things that need work with Torrey Smith's game then any other Wide Receiver we have. Tandon Doss is already a pretty good route runner and catches just about anything in his direction. Torrey Smith is more of a pure vertical threat right now and doesn't catch the ball with his hands. He ran a very limited route tree at Maryland whic can contribute to that, but he'll only get better.

[ellicottraven]

In all seriousness it is a little premature to brand Torrey a 'project' or otherwise at this time. I think he is learning and is confident and will prove to be a very effective WR for us.

[scrock]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1314125479' post='761165']
In all seriousness it is a little premature to brand Torrey a 'project' or otherwise at this time. I think he is learning and is confident and will prove to be a very effective WR for us.
[/quote]

i dont think its premature to call him a project, it is premature to call him a bust

coming out of college he wasnt a finished product, therefore he's a project, he has work that needs to be done, might take him a year to adapt his game...maybe sooner depends on how he can elevate his game

[Thepurplehaze]

[quote name='colljb9' timestamp='1314119571' post='761048']
As someones mentioned before go take a look of a replay of the bengals game...Aj green had 1 catch, dropped like 2 balls, and one of those dropped balls led to an interception. This guy was supposed to step in and be a game changing rookie wide reciever and im not really seeing it yet but is he a bust. Heck no i bet he'll be very good but rookies cannot be held to high expectations all the time we need to give them time to develop
[/quote]
Exactly..

[AwakenTheDemon]

Love him or hate him, Mike Preston was pretty spot on with his observations of Smith

[url="http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2011/08/t_smith_has_a_lot_to_learn.html"]Ravens Insider: http://weblogs.balti...t_to_learn.html[/url]

I'd agree completely with his comments on Torrey right now.

Off topic, but I hate the new link option on the forums. I love seeing truncated URLs

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1314127747' post='761209']
Love him or hate him, Mike Preston was pretty spot on with his observations of Smith

[url="http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2011/08/t_smith_has_a_lot_to_learn.html"]Ravens Insider: http://weblogs.balti...t_to_learn.html[/url]

I'd agree completely with his comments on Torrey right now.

Off topic, but I hate the new link option on the forums. I love seeing truncated URLs
[/quote]

It isn't often I agree with Preston but you're right, he's pretty spot on about him there. I've no doubt that the nastiness or the aggression that he speaks of can be learned though.

[ravensfan...mostly lewis]

I think the term project is for guys that need major attention. It seems like calling Torrey a project is delving into the territory of over use. Of course he needs work, he may not catch as good as some receivers or run fantastic routes, but that makes doss a project because he isn't a vertical threat and could use work on his blocking. Reed isn't the best tackler so therefor he's a project. Flacco still has work to do, project. Oher still gets offsides called against him, lets call him a project.

Why don't we reserve these titles for the players that make sense? Every rookie is technically a project, no rookie is perfectly well rounded and knows everything about the system. Don't make it out like he's a huge work in progress compared to anybody else coming out of the second-later rounds. Players have their weak points, its what they do with their strengths that make them good.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='ravensfan...mostly lewis' timestamp='1314128567' post='761224']
I think the term project is for guys that need major attention. It seems like calling Torrey a project is delving into the territory of over use. Of course he needs work, he may not catch as good as some receivers or run fantastic routes, but that makes doss a project because he isn't a vertical threat and could use work on his blocking. Reed isn't the best tackler so therefor he's a project. Flacco still has work to do, project. Oher still gets offsides called against him, lets call him a project.

Why don't we reserve these titles for the players that make sense? Every rookie is technically a project, no rookie is perfectly well rounded and knows everything about the system. Don't make it out like he's a huge work in progress compared to anybody else coming out of the second-later rounds. Players have their weak points, its what they do with their strengths that make them good.
[/quote]

You're off base with some of your argument. Doss isn't a project because he "isn't a vertical threat". He's built more like and has the physical skills of a quick possession receiver, therefore not being a "vertical threat" isn't detrimental to his game. Neither would "not being the best tackler" as you put it. Reed is a fine tackler, and his skill set would more than make up for any small issues with his tackling. However, in your own words, Smith doesn't "catch as good" or "run fantastic routes", two [i]big[/i] parts of a receiver's game. In that aspect he [i]is[/i] a project, just not as huge as some people may make him out to be.

[ravensfan...mostly lewis]

I'm sorry that you don't understand sarcasm. Doss not being a vertical threat along with being a quick posession reciever means that he isn't perfect and therefor is a project...afterall, anybody with any weakness is a project based on your belief. Not catching as good as someone with elite hands doesn't mean they can't catch either and Torrey has speed over doss' route running abilities. Point is, no player is perfect and everybody is always trying to improve. It's not like the coaches are gonna be like Torrey..today, we're gonna work on your hands specifically..doss, speed training. Torrey's hands will come along. Housh and Boldin dropped passes last year, projects?

These are not my beliefs but they must yours if you're gonna fault Torrey for an area he isn't perfect in but not another young receiver.

[ellicottraven]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1314127062' post='761200']

i dont think its premature to call him a project, it is premature to call him a bust

coming out of college he wasnt a finished product, therefore he's a project, he has work that needs to be done, might take him a year to adapt his game...maybe sooner depends on how he can elevate his game
[/quote]
But then so is every rookie...

[*kid_chaos100*]

[quote name='bmore187' timestamp='1313888945' post='758488']

I wholeheartedly agree.........Torrey Smith = bust to me so far
[/quote]
I agree too... Doss should be the #3... And it will also make sense becuzz Joe Flacco really wanted him the most.. But Reed should still compete for that #3 spot! Hes pretty good!!

[ravensfan...mostly lewis]

What's the deal with everybody saying suggs is such a good pass rusher? Does he even have any sacks this pre-season? Should we cut him because he's getting older and clearly on the down slope?

[Whitty Hutton]

Maybe the quake was the spark he needed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wif4DVqbykE&sns=em

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Whitty Hutton' timestamp='1314217507' post='762938']
Maybe the quake was the spark he needed
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wif4DVqbykE&sns=em[/media]
[/quote]

WOW!!!!! That is hilarious!!!!

[Bltravens]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1314127747' post='761209']Love him or hate him, Mike Preston was pretty spot on with his observations of Smith [url="http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2011/08/t_smith_has_a_lot_to_learn.html"]Ravens Insider: http://weblogs.balti...t_to_learn.html[/url] I'd agree completely with his comments on Torrey right now. Off topic, but I hate the new link option on the forums. I love seeing truncated URLs[/quote]
One thing to disagree with, Mason hardly ever catches with his hands and therefore never really attacked the ball in the air. He would come back for balls and never quit on plays yes, but he rarely attacked balls in the air.

[scrock]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1314208450' post='762701']
But then so is every rookie...
[/quote]

Let me put it this way, some players are more polished coming out of college than others...Doss is more polished as a WR at this point than Torrey...

Torrey is more of a project, he still has a lot of trouble being physical and fighting for the ball

Doss runs better routes, better hands, etc

David Reed is probably the #3 wr anyway, so Torrey and Doss will be getting limited looks to start out so it doesnt matter

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='ravensfan...mostly lewis' timestamp='1314202286' post='762504']
I'm sorry that you don't understand sarcasm. Doss not being a vertical threat along with being a quick posession reciever means that he isn't perfect and therefor is a project...afterall, anybody with any weakness is a project based on your belief. Not catching as good as someone with elite hands doesn't mean they can't catch either and Torrey has speed over doss' route running abilities. Point is, no player is perfect and everybody is always trying to improve. It's not like the coaches are gonna be like Torrey..today, we're gonna work on your hands specifically..doss, speed training. Torrey's hands will come along. Housh and Boldin dropped passes last year, projects?

These are not my beliefs but they must yours if you're gonna fault Torrey for an area he isn't perfect in but not another young receiver.
[/quote]

Drop the snobby attitude, I use sarcasm more than most around here. It's not my fault your unable to word what you want to say. You're contradicting yourself and making an extremely poor argument while using "sarcasm" to cover it up.

The point is Smith can be labeled as a project because he's extremely raw in everything a receiver needs to do. It's not far fetched when he was being pointed out as running the wrong routes and looking confused against the Eagles. He's a poor sloppy route runner and struggles catching at times. Those are two extremely basic parts to a receivers game. Doss may not have the speed that is attributed to Torrey, but his hands blow Smith's out of the water and he's a better route runner. Not perfect, but better than Smith. Hence why you could call Torrey a project and not Tandon.

As for the first part, how many possession receivers are also accomplished vertical threats? Not many. Not being perfect isn't the same thing as being a project. Mason wasn't a vertical threat, does that mean he wasn't perfect or was a project as a receiver?

[ravensfan...mostly lewis]

I like how you lack the specifics to explain your first paragraph. Not being snobby, just pointing out how you are contradicting YOURSELF.

to sum it up, you are saying Torrey is a project because Tandon Doss is better than him in two areas. So Thats the line you draw on being a project? Andre Johnson is a better wide receiver than Larry Fitzgerald imo, so therefor that means that Larry Fitzgerald is a project. You know who's better than Tandon Doss? A.J. Green, now Tandon Doss is a project to.

Do you see how easy it is to find fault in your logic?

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='ravensfan...mostly lewis' timestamp='1314221396' post='763056']
I like how you lack the specifics to explain your first paragraph. Not being snobby, just pointing out how you are contradicting YOURSELF.

to sum it up, you are saying Torrey is a project because Tandon Doss is better than him in two areas. So Thats the line you draw on being a project? Andre Johnson is a better wide receiver than Larry Fitzgerald imo, so therefor that means that Larry Fitzgerald is a project. You know who's better than Tandon Doss? A.J. Green, now Tandon Doss is a project to.

Do you see how easy it is to find fault in your logic?
[/quote]

Apparently when you don't comprehend things it is easy. I never said Doss was better or that Torrey was a project because Doss was better in two aspects. I'm saying, for the third time, that someone could label Torrey a project becaus he stuggles in two KEY ASPECTS in a wide outs skill set. Not because he lacks in two things Doss does better, but two things that are essential to what a receiver does every day. Doss' talent has nothing to do with what Smith is labeled, Smith's talent does.