Concern

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Ravensqueen' timestamp='1313945513' post='758970']
What's up with Joe Facco? Friday he looked like his first preseaon game when he was a rookie. (SMH) If he doesn't get it together that rookie QB will be replacing him or the Ravens will get a veteran QB to replace him.
[/quote]

That's what you signed up to say? Sigh...whatever, I'm done. Done with trying to convince these spoiled Ravens fans that they're acting like ungrateful children. Go wallow in your pessimism.

[codizzle]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1313946829' post='759003']


That's what you signed up to say? Sigh...whatever, I'm done. Done with trying to convince these spoiled Ravens fans that they're acting like ungrateful children. Go wallow in your pessimism.
[/quote]
Lol dont worry about it.. There seems to be more and more every year on here as the team gets better and better smh...
Some people can do nothing but be critical even when we have an awesome team poised for a great run

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1313932665' post='758816']
That's funny... you seem fine with condemning other players after 3 years or less. And the thing is, a lot of those players can only succeed if the quarterback is doing his job. Don't be a hypocrite now. If Flacco, who plays the most important position on the field, is given more than 3 years. Why wouldn't a less-important position be given at least that amount of time?
[/quote]
I'm no QB freak, but the QB position is different. There's only ONE playing at a time. If we have a developing CB, G, S, RT, whatever the case may be, and they are good, fine. But if we have better options, USE THEM. Flacco gives us the best chance to win, plain and simple. Can't say that about other third year players on this roster who may or may not be great.

There is a lot more depth at other positions. It's entirely possible that 3rd year players at other positions will be great. But they are more expendable. There's only one QB on the field at a time.

Also, who have I condemned??

[lowrider]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1313942936' post='758924']
Would that be the same number seven that had stats as good as Flacco's after missing four games......wow. When number seven is struggling in the passing game, he could always kill you with his legs.
[/quote]
Vick was more of an example of just how people will get down on Flacco about incompletions (because I feel the argument who is better Vick or Flacco is pretty obvious), but if you look at Flacco's efficiency and how he has been so close on so many throws and still hasn't thrown any interceptions. Granted he hasn't looked 100% sharp but even the elite qb's have struggled in the preseason aka Vick and Brees . That's more of what I was pointing out
[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1313945203' post='758960']

Is that the same number seven who threw 3 interceptions in ONE HALF!? If you're gonna go wild over preseason games, then you should take them all into account. Why did Vick look so bad against the Steelers? He couldn't use his legs to get out of anything either. Why?
[/quote]
Some could be contributed to the fact it was at heinz field and the Steelers were angry of how bad they looked vs the redskins (I mean who wouldn't be angry about losing to the skins....). So again, for the same reason why I don't say Vick is terrible, oo why oo why did they trade Kolb; is the reason I don't have any concern for Flacco.

I think the main things is that our team is getting a lot of reps, and that is far more important than anything else. Players are going to show rust when they haven't played together until a month ago. There is definitely things to be happy about with Flacco

[flynismo]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1313932665' post='758816']

That's funny... you seem fine with condemning other players after 3 years or less. And the thing is, a lot of those players can only succeed if the quarterback is doing his job. Don't be a hypocrite now. If Flacco, who plays the most important position on the field, is given more than 3 years. Why wouldn't a less-important position be given at least that amount of time?[/quote]


ed, ed, ed....I know you're much smarter than that, so it boggles my mind why you would say that. You speak as if Flacco has been a bust, an underperformer, or something like that.
Even you have to admit that is far from the case, so why would you say that?

[mhead66]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1313942936' post='758924']
Would that be the same number seven that had stats as good as Flacco's after missing four games......[b]wow[/b]. When number seven is struggling in the passing game, he could always kill you with his legs.
[/quote]
Wow is right.

Flacco, in his three NFL seasons, has passer ratings of 80.3, 88.9 and 93.6. He has a career passer rating of 87.9 and a completion accuracy of 62%.

Even after his "wonderful season" last year, Vick still has a career passer rating of 80.2, and a completion accuracy of 55%. In six years in Atlanta, his highest passer rating was 81.6.

Yeah, Vicks's a great "athlete". But don't drink the Kool-Aid - Joe's a better QB... as any Falcon fan would tell you. Even after Vick's "rebirth", I'd rather have Flacco.

[stan]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1313861586' post='758008']
I wonder what people will say when the OL starts to play well and Flacco still flubs all his throws.
[/quote]
Nothing. Because it won't happen. I've seen the best of them flub some of their throws. We expect perfection which is insane.

[Ravensfan23]

Flacco when 12 of 24 for 124 yards in one half of football. He missed a few passes in a preseason game, what's the big deal? If Flacco comes out next week and throws for close to 200 yards, 2 TDs and our offense is clicking against the Redskins. what will it matter?

It just be a dress rehearsal for the regular season, and fan will say that the team is ready. But do you think it matters to the Steelers one way or another how we look against the Skins.

Do you think they will say, oh man, we struggled against the Skins and the Ravens lit them up, we're in trouble? No, they will just try to find as much tape on Doss, Evans, Dickson, Pitta and Reed as possible and form their game plan.

You think they are gonna say, oh we got this because Flacco missed a couple open WRs in a preseason game, or because he lit up Josh Wilson.

We as fans put way too much into preseason. Rice and Ricky averaged about 5 yards per carry the other night. If it were a real game and Flacco continued to struggle, we probably would have just pounded away at the Chiefs and took advantage of a few play actions.

I think what what stood out more was the separation that the WRs created in that game. As I mentioned before, every pass Flacco missed was to an open WR. He was just off. It wasn't like Joe made bad reads, or hesitated to throw the ball. The timing was just off a bit.

[sozo91]

Aside from Peyton, Ben, and Brady are there any current QBs who had greater success than Flacco in his first three years?

Even elites like Rodgers and Rivers benched for a couple seasons or more.

[Moderator 2]

I would be more concerned if it were Heap and Mason he was having problems with, Seemed to be no issue with Evans and one of the misses with Boldin he tripped/ slipped/stumbled.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='sozo91' timestamp='1313953423' post='759122']
Aside from Peyton, Ben, and Brady are there any current QBs who had greater success than Flacco in his first three years?

Even elites like Rodgers and Rivers benched for a couple seasons or more.
[/quote]

yea his name was Dan Marino. I think he was pretty good, but i'm not sure

[SpeedKills]

Uh... why are we panicking here? It's pre-season. The only WR back from last year is Boldin. Not to mention the O-line is going through some MAJOR changes right now.

I don't think he looks rattled at all -- I think he looks like he's getting used to his new toys.

[Romo Ravens]

I don't even get mad anymore when people say Flacco isn't good enough. There will always be those kinds of "fans". Patience is key, but please, please, PLEASE don't come back with your tail tucked between your butt, saying you were wrong about Flacco. If he wins the SB this year, actually if ever he wins a SB, there's nothing anyone can say, because he played a significant role in that season. Some people just have to get over the fact that he's our Franchise QB, and will be for a very long time.

[dontbnvus]

I have no illusions about Joe being a "elite" QB. I dont feel this team is built around a elite qb. I think the trick is to put together a VERY GOOD TEAM. Joe is a very good QB in this league. No he is not elite. We don't need elite. We need very good. Think about it. Just having a crazy good qb does not win championships. You need a all around great TEAM. I think that is what they try to build here with the Ravens.

Just my opinion

[1/28/01]

[quote name='sozo91' timestamp='1313953423' post='759122']
Aside from Peyton, Ben, and Brady are there any current QBs who had greater success than Flacco in his first three years?

Even elites like Rodgers and Rivers benched for a couple seasons or more.
[/quote]
Even Peyton's Colts had very little success as a team his first 3 years and even on an individual basis he struggled mightily! Over his first 3 years he had a 59% completion percentage and was at about a 1.5 to 1 ratio on TDs to INTs.

[cursona pirate]

I'm surprised this thread is not dead. I wonder if it has to do with me posting this message? Opps!!

[Greatness]

Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Flacco will be fine. A lot has changed over the last year and some even say our team is inferior to last years team. It's still the pre-season and the kinks are still getting worked out. Once our offensive line struggles are fixed, everybody will be the biggest Flacco supporter in the world as we've got the tools to go all the way. Look at Flacco this year as opposed to the other years. In the first two pre-season games, he's no longer throwing on his tippy toes! That's an already amazing feat as he always did it last year and it drove me crazy.

Also, he's throwing the ball in stride as opposed to last year when Stallworth would have to slow down to catch the ball and adjust. He was super off against the Chiefs, but I don't expect that to continue. We have a special QB here in Baltimore and its a damn shame a lot of people don't see that. It's one of the biggest reasons I hate our fanbase...we have some type of ADHD fraudulence going on. Calling for Taylor to start over Flacco already? lol, must be the same frauds who loved Troy Smith. Look how that turned out.

Have a concern. I sure as hell do, but people, don't start trippin'!

[CorvusCorax]

People let's not over react. There's still plenty of time left for these guys to learn.

[Militant X 1]

preseason or not....my major concern is that after 2 games....Joe hasn't march the 1st team offense down the field convincingly to score TDs. he has been out there in 2 games and only put up 2 FG totalling 6pts. that concerns me!

~Mili

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1313961271' post='759246']
preseason or not....my major concern is that after 2 games....Joe hasn't march the 1st team offense down the field convincingly to score TDs. he has been out there in 2 games and only put up 2 FG totalling 6pts. that concerns me!

~Mili
[/quote]
Well, and the drive where they marched down field (43 yarder to Lee included) and Rice ran it in from the 26. You mean throwing one, though, so I get ya.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1313962631' post='759265']
Well, and the drive where they marched down field (43 yarder to Lee included) and Rice ran it in from the 26. [b]You mean throwing one[/b], though, so I get ya.
[/quote]

yeah! i mean a "passing" TD. in 2 preseason games...Joe has yet to throw those. that concerns me!

~Mili

[tctony]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1313860254' post='757973']
Joe Flacco is a pure pocket passer. He needs a strong pocket around him that doesn't collapse as soon as he hikes the ball. If the OL continues to perform poorly and not even give him TWO seconds to stand up right there will be trouble.

If I was the Ravens coaches and the OL did not improve during the regular season this is what I'd do:

-Put Flacco in more shotgun formations. It will buy him at least an extra second plus he is GREAT in the shotgun with his accuracy being around 70% (I saw this on the TV screen last year so sorry no link). He pretty much played in the Shotgun during college so he has a ton of experience in it.

-On passing situations I'd bring in Ricky Williams because he is more powerful than Ray Rice and can be a good blocker to help Flacco. Adding Vonta Leach was another great addition because it's like having an extra OL out there.

-Make Joe Flacco constantly work on 3-5 step drops to improve his short route throws. When he gets the ball he should just move back and without thinking hit his WR right in the chest and allow him to fight for extra yards. We have guys like Anquan Boldin (one of the best YAC WRs), Tandon Doss is great at underneath stuff, and using the TE to create mismatches against the LBs. Work the middle of the field!

The offense is going to struggle no doubt, there are a lot of young guys in there. But Flacco is now a veteran QB with 3 years of regular AND post season experience. He will have to make his offensive weapons better by making those tight throws so only they can catch it and get extra yards. He seems to be building a strong bond with Anquan Boldin and already on the same page with Lee Evans. Now the Ravens coaches have to either improve the OL or use the pieces they have and create "make shift" protection.
[/quote]

Great post here.

It's all about the OL.

I still think its a shame that Gaither didn't work out for us. Dude was a beast when healthy/motivated. Oher was great on the right side, but is not impressive at LT. Grubbs is great and we know he will be solid. We will see what Birk does. Yanda is usually good. I think Cousins could do good at guard, he certainly has the size.

Anyway, it's all about the line. I disagree with the OP about chemistry. Flacco spent this offseason working with Boldin, and you could tell he wanted to get the ball to him. Good chem with Evans also.

Flacco has looked good, but just a little off. His elusiveness is way up, which will be good if the line continues to struggle.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='dontbnvus' timestamp='1313957828' post='759184']
I have no illusions about Joe being a "elite" QB. I dont feel this team is built around a elite qb. I think the trick is to put together a VERY GOOD TEAM. Joe is a very good QB in this league. No he is not elite. We don't need elite. We need very good. Think about it. Just having a crazy good qb does not win championships. You need a all around great TEAM. I think that is what they try to build here with the Ravens.

Just my opinion
[/quote]

I get where you are going with that, and I agree with the basis of your statement, but an Elite QB is a guy that can take good talent and make it great.

An elite QB is a guy that will put his team in a position to win more then lose. He's a guy that when the game is on the line and everybody knows a play needs to be made, he can make it.

You look at this team and it was built around Flacco. When the Ravens go on to have a top 10 offense and win the Super Bowl this year, nobody will be able to say that Flacco was just alone for the ride.

Lee Evans is good, but look at the season he has last year. So if he breaks out, it'll be because of Flacco. Boldin appeared to be slowing down last year, so if he bounces back it'll be because of Joe. Dickson and Pitta are no Todd Heap, so their success in the offense will be based off of Flacco.

Doss, Reed, and Smith are all young guys, so their success will be because Flacco molded them into what he wanted them to be in this offense.

Don't really wanna make this a Flacco vs Ryan thing, but if they have great offensive success, people can make the argument that it's because Ryan has a great duo at WR. From a perception standpoint the same can't be said about Flacco. People will only view Boldin and Evans as great if they go out and put up great numbers.

So this team being really good is one thing, but this teams being good enough to win the Super Bowl and potentially building that Dynasty we speak of, and having a explosive Offense year in and year out, will call for Flacco to be elite. Because without Joe being at the top of his game, and reaching his full potential, that just won't happen.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1313957891' post='759187']
Even Peyton's Colts had very little success as a team his first 3 years and even on an individual basis he struggled mightily! Over his first 3 years he had a 59% completion percentage and was at about a 1.5 to 1 ratio on TDs to INTs.
[/quote]

Over his first 6 years, his playoff numbers look worse then that.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1313961271' post='759246']
preseason or not....my major concern is that after 2 games....Joe hasn't march the 1st team offense down the field convincingly to score TDs. he has been out there in 2 games and only put up 2 FG totalling 6pts. that concerns me!

~Mili
[/quote]

But i think the good thing you can take from that is, it appears to be a timing thing. The miss to Dickson was timing and anticipation, that will come with more time, remember Dickson just got back to practice last week.

The playaction pass to Boldin was just out of Q's reach. That's just an adjustment thing. If he puts a little more air under it, it's 6.

The pass over the middle to Smith was the correct read, but again, it was a timing thing. Learning how Torrey comes out of that break, but still getting the ball over the LB and away from the DB.

Those things will be worked out imo.

If this is the worse we'll see from Flacco, i'll take it.

[mhead66]

If you look at our first 4 games, I think we can agree that the pass protection [b]must[/b] come together:

Pittsburgh - 1st in sacks, with 48
@ Titans - (T) 8th in sacks, with 40
@ Rams - 7th in sacks, with 43
Jets - (T) 8th in sacks, with 40

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1313933235' post='758821']
The Steelers(and every other team) have had the same amount of time to work as the Ravens, and they seemed to be able to score on Philly just fine.
[/quote]

The Steelers have most (if not ALL) of their offensive team returning from last season. They are not trying to integrate new WRs, new TEs, etc etc etc. They should have their timing down. Plus, their 1's played much, much longer than ours did against Philly.

[dontbnvus]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1313967602' post='759321']

I get where you are going with that, and I agree with the basis of your statement, but an Elite QB is a guy that can take good talent and make it great.

An elite QB is a guy that will put his team in a position to win more then lose. He's a guy that when the game is on the line and everybody knows a play needs to be made, he can make it.

You look at this team and it was built around Flacco. When the Ravens go on to have a top 10 offense and win the Super Bowl this year, nobody will be able to say that Flacco was just alone for the ride.

Lee Evans is good, but look at the season he has last year. So if he breaks out, it'll be because of Flacco. Boldin appeared to be slowing down last year, so if he bounces back it'll be because of Joe. Dickson and Pitta are no Todd Heap, so their success in the offense will be based off of Flacco.

Doss, Reed, and Smith are all young guys, so their success will be because Flacco molded them into what he wanted them to be in this offense.

Don't really wanna make this a Flacco vs Ryan thing, but if they have great offensive success, people can make the argument that it's because Ryan has a great duo at WR. From a perception standpoint the same can't be said about Flacco. People will only view Boldin and Evans as great if they go out and put up great numbers.

So this team being really good is one thing, but this teams being good enough to win the Super Bowl and potentially building that Dynasty we speak of, and having a explosive Offense year in and year out, will call for Flacco to be elite. Because without Joe being at the top of his game, and reaching his full potential, that just won't happen.
[/quote]

I think we are on the same page. To a point. I see it that Joe has all the talent and smarts to do his job very well. I believe he can lead this team to a championship. I just do not believe he is capable of carrying the team on his back to do it. I dont think anyone would want him to have to. We have soooo much talent surrounding Joe that all he has to do is his part. Is that greatness? Heck yeah. Joe has shown that he is a rare find at QB. The things he has accomplished his first three years are very rare. I feel if the offense has a lot of success It will be because Joe stepped up to the next level. But it also means the TEAM as a whole stepped up with him. They elevate each other.
It is tough sometimes to get your thoughts across on here. LOL Just so it is known.... I think Joe is just as good if not better than Ryan. Just so it is known where I stand on that point. LOL

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1313968634' post='759338']

The Steelers have most (if not ALL) of their offensive team returning from last season. They are not trying to integrate new WRs, new TEs, etc etc etc. They should have their timing down. Plus, their 1's played much, much longer than ours did against Philly.
[/quote]

They really weren't that impressive against the Eagles to me. The Philly defense allowed them to stay on the field after 2 failed 3rd down attempts because of penalties, and Ben's first TD came off a broken coverage.

I really don't see what's the big deal.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='dontbnvus' timestamp='1313968734' post='759339']

I think we are on the same page. To a point. I see it that Joe has all the talent and smarts to do his job very well. I believe he can lead this team to a championship. I just do not believe he is capable of carrying the team on his back to do it. I dont think anyone would want him to have to. We have soooo much talent surrounding Joe that all he has to do is his part. Is that greatness? Heck yeah. Joe has shown that he is a rare find at QB. The things he has accomplished his first three years are very rare. I feel if the offense has a lot of success It will be because Joe stepped up to the next level. But it also means the TEAM as a whole stepped up with him. They elevate each other.
It is tough sometimes to get your thoughts across on here. LOL Just so it is known.... I think Joe is just as good if not better than Ryan. Just so it is known where I stand on that point. LOL
[/quote]

Yea i agree with what you are saying, but what i'm saying is, NO QB puts his team on his shoulders and win the Super Bowl. That is just media hype.

When Brady won his 3 Super Bowls he had a great defense and he just did his part. Doesn't make him any less of a QB.

When Manning won the SB, his running game and defense carried him in the 06' playoffs. He continually put his team in bad spots with turnovers, but his team bailed him out enough. Then he made plays in the SB when needed.

The same goes for Brees and Rodgers.

So yea, Flacco doesn't have to carry this team on his shoulders, just do his part as you say. I think that's Ozzie plan with the draft and FA.