Concern

[RoflDogs]

*note, I am the biggest Flacco apologist in the world*

Anyways, to me in the past two games, Joe looked very uncomfortable and fidgety. This is understandable with Mason and Heap gone, but this has got to be a growing concern.

Last year, Joe had complete trust in his receivers and did not think twice before throwing it to any of his targets.

But now, with his two safety blankets gone, he looks indecisive and doesn't trust his receivers enough to make a decisive throw (this was also evident in the two "tuck rule" throws). Oddly enough, the only receiver he seemed to trust was Lee Evans (Joe would not loft a pass to someone he doesn't trust)

I know this is preseason, but this issue cannot linger into the regular season because Joe is going to get destroyed against the Steelers if he continues to be hesitant.

Hopefully, all this is worked out in the next 2 preseason games, or else our offense is in deep trouble

[PuRock]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1313858659' post='757933']
*note, I am the biggest Flacco apologist in the world*

[b]Anyways, to me in the past two games, Joe looked very uncomfortable and fidgety. This is understandable with Mason and Heap gone, but this has got to be a growing concern.[/b]

Last year, Joe had complete trust in his receivers and did not think twice before throwing it to any of his targets.

But now, with his two safety blankets gone, he looks indecisive and doesn't trust his receivers enough to make a decisive throw (this was also evident in the two "tuck rule" throws). Oddly enough, the only receiver he seemed to trust was Lee Evans (Joe would not loft a pass to someone he doesn't trust)

I know this is preseason, but this issue cannot linger into the regular season because Joe is going to get destroyed against the Steelers if he continues to be hesitant.

Hopefully, all this is worked out in the next 2 preseason games, or else our offense is in deep trouble
[/quote]

Really? I thought he looked cool and calm. He was more fidgety because of the experiments at the O-line. But I think overall, Joe likes the feel of Evans on the team. He even told Cam the other day that it felt different and good.

Sure getting the timing down of your guys is a process. But I wouldn't worry to much about it.

I'm more worried about the Steelers bringing the house against the O-Line.

[flynismo]

No Flacco = No Hope

He'll be fine though.

[ratedr]

I've been thinking the same thing. Even Colt McCoy looks better than him. Flacco held the offense back last night, and it's troublesome.

[True]

Joe Flacco is a pure pocket passer. He needs a strong pocket around him that doesn't collapse as soon as he hikes the ball. If the OL continues to perform poorly and not even give him TWO seconds to stand up right there will be trouble.

If I was the Ravens coaches and the OL did not improve during the regular season this is what I'd do:

-Put Flacco in more shotgun formations. It will buy him at least an extra second plus he is GREAT in the shotgun with his accuracy being around 70% (I saw this on the TV screen last year so sorry no link). He pretty much played in the Shotgun during college so he has a ton of experience in it.

-On passing situations I'd bring in Ricky Williams because he is more powerful than Ray Rice and can be a good blocker to help Flacco. Adding Vonta Leach was another great addition because it's like having an extra OL out there.

-Make Joe Flacco constantly work on 3-5 step drops to improve his short route throws. When he gets the ball he should just move back and without thinking hit his WR right in the chest and allow him to fight for extra yards. We have guys like Anquan Boldin (one of the best YAC WRs), Tandon Doss is great at underneath stuff, and using the TE to create mismatches against the LBs. Work the middle of the field!

The offense is going to struggle no doubt, there are a lot of young guys in there. But Flacco is now a veteran QB with 3 years of regular AND post season experience. He will have to make his offensive weapons better by making those tight throws so only they can catch it and get extra yards. He seems to be building a strong bond with Anquan Boldin and already on the same page with Lee Evans. Now the Ravens coaches have to either improve the OL or use the pieces they have and create "make shift" protection.

[mgridda]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1313858659' post='757933']
Last year, Joe had complete trust in his receivers and did not think twice before throwing it to any of his targets.
[/quote]

I disagree completely. I think hesitancy has been Flacco's major malfunction as a Quarterback. He overthinks and is not instinctive yet with the Football.

He also stares down receivers, but that might be a product of the offense (as in, instead of being a simple "find the open man" offense, it's an offense which makes much of its designer's intelligence and everyone has a role to basically attract this attention or that attention and each play is designed to go to one WR).

I think that last part is the issue of Cameron holding Flacco back. Maybe Flacco just doesn't like going through progressions before he throws the ball. Who knows. It's an Air Coryell and not a West Coast offense, so my knowledge bank hints at it being a Cam Cameron exertion.

It's interesting that you say he looked fidgity, because one thing I noticed from the Chiefs game was his poise and command of the pocket. Before it seemed when he was pressured he was either bailing, throwing the ball or tucking the football. Yesterday he didn't make dramatic moves. He just made these small, tiny steps that ended up buying him extra seconds like a boss. That is the stuff of Manning and Brady. Sometimes a QB need only step a little bit to the left and his o-line will do the rest.

[Kwothdaraven]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1313860231' post='757972']I've been thinking the same thing. Even Colt McCoy looks better than him. Flacco held the offense back last night, and it's troublesome.[/quote]

Colt mccoy has a stellar oline to protect him. So he will look ok in a preseason game against vanilla defenses that didn't gameplan. Meanwhile joe was getting pushed out of the pocket everyplay.

[ratedr]

I don't know how anyone CAN'T be concerned. This is the most inaccurate I've seen Flacco in the preseason since his rookie year. You'd think he was playing Cincy or something, not KC's backups.

[lowrider]

The ravens have been practicing together for a couple weeks. He just got Lee Evans and other than Boldin all of his receivers are super young. The majority of his line is either young or backups. Offense is a rhythm thing. He was making great reads but he was just off. Nothing to go crazy about.

Things I like:

1. Flacco looked super confident in the pocket even for the preseason. In his body language there is so much of a difference

2. He is making passes downfield, not just dump passes to the back. There was a playaction bootleg where Flacco overthrew Torrey Smith just by a little bit. Probably a mix between timing with a new receiver and the youth of Smith and the fact its so early in the season. But Flacco could have just dumped it to Leach who was 5 yards in front of Smith. Love the aggressiveness.

3. Flacco is making all the throws.

Have faith people. Bumps and bruises are nothing to get all bent up about

[ratedr]

I wonder what people will say when the OL starts to play well and Flacco still flubs all his throws.

[lowrider]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1313861586' post='758008']
I wonder what people will say when the OL starts to play well and Flacco still flubs all his throws.
[/quote]
Ooo I get it. Still mad about Troy Smith leaving...?

Be realistic, this team has been playing together for about a month and you expect it be perfect?

There should be a barrel where we should throw all Flacco haters

[Milton145]

It's hard for a QB to be as accurate as he can be when he is always running for his life as soon as the ball is snapped. ESPECIALLY for Joe Flacco who has a powerful arm. Though I will admit the deep pass to Boldin was inexcusable on his part.

[ratedr]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1313861747' post='758011']
Ooo I get it. Still mad about Troy Smith leaving...?

Be realistic, this team has been playing together for about a month and you expect it be perfect?

There should be a barrel where we should throw all Flacco haters
[/quote]
Pfft Troy Smith is a bum. But juxtaposing him against Flacco doesn't automatically make Flacco great.

We'll see where he goes from here, but some of those throws were rookie caliber.

[Jabara]

I wasn't able to watch the game lastnight because I was working, but I will say it's only the second preseason game, and you have to consider that most players, vets, won't be playing like they would in a real game.
Joe won't be putting his neck on the line, and a lot of people are saying Boldin wasn't playing 100% but at the same time, he's not going to get himself hurt in a preseason game.

[JohnJohnson]

Yeah, other QBs never miss open receivers, especially not in preseason...wait, what?

[lowrider]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1313862076' post='758022']
Pfft Troy Smith is a bum. But juxtaposing him against Flacco doesn't automatically make Flacco great.

We'll see where he goes from here, but some of those throws were rookie caliber.
[/quote]
But he had a couple of sick throws too. And his chemistry with Lee Evans after one week? Thats gotta be encouraging. Gotta get through the thorns to get to the roses. No one said there wouldn't be any bumps along the way. I'm going off potential. And we have receivers who can burn defenses and a qb that can make every throw and he showed that last night. But then he showed they still have some work to do. There are other teams in much worse spots.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

If he looked fidgety then I wouldn't blame anything other than the O-line. I doubt his confidence in the guys that are meant to keep him safe is high right now. I can't say I blame him either, it resembled a turnstile in the Eagles game.

After three years of being solid or better, I don't expect him to suddenly implode and regress. He'll be better when there's more familiarity with everyone who he has to start with.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1313858659' post='757933']
*note, I am the biggest Flacco apologist in the world*

Anyways, to me in the past two games, Joe looked very uncomfortable and fidgety. This is understandable with Mason and Heap gone, but this has got to be a growing concern.

[b]Last year, Joe had complete trust in his receivers and did not think twice before throwing it to any of his targets.[/b]

But now, with his two safety blankets gone, he looks indecisive and doesn't trust his receivers enough to make a decisive throw (this was also evident in the two "tuck rule" throws). Oddly enough, the only receiver he seemed to trust was Lee Evans (Joe would not loft a pass to someone he doesn't trust)

I know this is preseason, but this issue cannot linger into the regular season because Joe is going to get destroyed against the Steelers if he continues to be hesitant.

Hopefully, all this is worked out in the next 2 preseason games, or else our offense is in deep trouble
[/quote]
You mean it's not the other way around? I could swear he was hesitant to try and fit the ball into tight, even relatively tight windows last season. Now, he looks to be slinging it around.

[JohnJohnson]

Flacco JUST owned the Chiefs in the playoffs last season. But forget that, he didn't look superb in preseason! Oh noooo!!! Panic!

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

I will say this is last night's game I was more than disappointed with Flacco, as well as I think we all should be because he did not play up to his potential. However at no point was I delusional to think that Flacco is not our QB nor was I dooming the rest of our season. I do however think that from last night his play has to (and will) get better. I think too many people on BOTH sides need to get centered, some are making excuses which Flacco is not excused for preseason or not be damned. However this is normal growing pains and should be looked at with optimism because that is not the rule but the exception, he will improve and guide this offense to where it needs to go.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1313861586' post='758008']
I wonder what people will say when the OL starts to play well and Flacco still flubs all his throws.
[/quote]

You're no fan, I'm calling you out. Here's a comment from "ratedray" at the baltimoresun.com forum:

"[Flacco]...has been looking pretty bad lately. Even those passes to Evans were bad, it's just that Evans bailed him out.

Colt McCoy, on the other hand, has been amazing. Steelers/Browns might be racing for the division crown this year."

If this is really how you think, there's nothing left to say. Go be a Browns fan if Colt McCoy looks so much better in preseason. We'll see how he looks against the Steelers (didn't look very good last season).

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

My bigger concern is our O-line because that is 2 straight weeks of terrible O line play. They may be pulling it all together which is great especially for all the youth on the line but it is still a little disconcerting that they are like a sieve. Now I know Oz is going to add some veteran stop gaps to bring some consistent O-line play while the rookies can catch up, but I am extremely enthralled with our youth movement here in Baltimore and I only want the veteran's to be around a year or 2 so that way we can overtake the aging steeler's.

[ratedr]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1313863517' post='758061']

You're no fan, I'm calling you out. Here's a comment from "ratedray" at the baltimoresun.com forum:

"[Flacco]...has been looking pretty bad lately. Even those passes to Evans were bad, it's just that Evans bailed him out.

Colt McCoy, on the other hand, has been amazing. Steelers/Browns might be racing for the division crown this year."

If this is really how you think, there's nothing left to say. Go be a Browns fan if Colt McCoy looks so much better in preseason. We'll see how he looks against the Steelers (didn't look very good last season).
[/quote]
I am a fan, I'm just not delusional. I don't make excuses. Every other top 10 QB has shown me something good so far this preseason, but Flacco has been mediocre BOTH games. What's happening?

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1313863719' post='758065']
I am a fan, I'm just not delusional. I don't make excuses. Every other top 10 QB has shown me something good so far this preseason, but Flacco has been mediocre BOTH games. What's happening?
[/quote]

What's happening is you don't know what you're talking about. Flacco played really well last season, but you're gonna focus on 2 preseason games? He didn't even play that much in the first game. If it's delusional to support your starting QB, then yeah, I guess us real fans are delusional. When Flacco has a game in the regular season like he did against the Bengals last season, some criticism is warranted. When he doesn't even throw a pick and is just a little off on his accuracy while running for his life in a PRESEASON GAME, the things you're saying are absurd. You think Colt McCoy is better based on two preseason games. That tells me that you are delusional.

[JohnJohnson]

Here's another little nugget from ratedray, clearly the same person as ratedr.

"Flacco has been stinking it up. The 3rd best QB in the AFC North so far."

Yeah, so far after two preseason games. Ridiculous. Seriously, worthy of ridicule.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1313861586' post='758008']
I wonder what people will say when the OL starts to play well and Flacco still flubs all his throws.
[/quote]
Well, considering he doesn't flub all his throws and like someone said last night, he was 50% (bad) but could have been 60% had he taken 3 or 4 sacks instead of throw the few away that he should have and did throw away. Yes, he missed a few open targets, but its not like last night was a typical showing for him.

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1313862627' post='758040']
You mean it's not the other way around? I could swear he was hesitant to try and fit the ball into tight, even relatively tight windows last season. Now, he looks to be slinging it around.
[/quote]

The Jets game strikes me as a prime example of Joe having more trust in his receivers. I watched it on DVR, so it might've been a bit different, but his trust in his receivers was a very distinct characteristic from that game

[RoflDogs]

The individual offensive linemen played very well (yes, including Cousins), but it was more of the protection problems than our guys getting beaten 1 on 1 (I.e. more blitzers than blockers)

Think that's partially because Birk isn't there

Oh, and was anybody else extremely bothered by that one botched playaction play?? It seemed to me as if Joe was the only one confused on what the play was (though I highly doubt that since he is the QB of the system he's been with for 3 season now)

[flynismo]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1313863719' post='758065']
I am a fan, I'm just not delusional. I don't make excuses. Every other top 10 QB has shown me something good so far this preseason, but Flacco has been mediocre BOTH games. What's happening?
[/quote]


What's happening is that you are hanging out with Ricky Williams too much. Just say no dude.

[flynismo]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1313865547' post='758121']
The individual offensive linemen played very well (yes, including Cousins), but it was more of the protection problems than our guys getting beaten 1 on 1 (I.e. more blitzers than blockers)

Think that's partially because Birk isn't there

Oh, and was anybody else extremely bothered by that one botched playaction play?? It seemed to me as if Joe was the only one confused on what the play was (though I highly doubt that since he is the QB of the system he's been with for 3 season now)
[/quote]


Flacco's play action has always been ... crap. He doesn't even try to sell it