Did We Upgrade?

[scrock]

I think the defense is going to be better and I think the offense could be better with the addition of Lee Evans and the young guys stepping up. Now that all depends on how the OL comes together, if we can't pass protect or get any push off the ball run blocking then the offense will struggle.

[evil-eye1]

we will sorely miss landry, wilson and mason....big-time! Pollard can hit but he cant cover. Evans only has one trick up his sleeve...dude rarly goes across the middle. Carr will be a liability. as far as rookies, i dont even place any stock in them their 1st year. if the ravens are depending on rookies to help them win, then we're in trouble(especially the 1st half of the season).

[1/28/01]

[quote name='evil-eye1' timestamp='1313521789' post='752638']
we will sorely miss landry, wilson and mason....big-time! Pollard can hit but he cant cover. Evans only has one trick up his sleeve...dude rarly goes across the middle. Carr will be a liability. as far as rookies, i dont even place any stock in them their 1st year. if the ravens are depending on rookies to help them win, then we're in trouble(especially the 1st half of the season).
[/quote]
Landry - no
Wilson - maybe, but not likely with Williams/Smith/Carr/Foxy/Webb
Mason - Evans is a HUGE upgrade over Mason in terms of mixing up our WR's. Why would we want another WR going over the middle?

And, you're a Pitt fan...admit it, finally!!

[Alexir]

[quote name='TheSim' timestamp='1313514331' post='752519']
You forgot the most important off-season move we made:

[b]Marshal Yanda[/b] vs. No Marshal Yanda




We didn't re-sign Cousins, we drafted him in 2009, he's still on his rookie contract.
[/quote]

August 4th we signed him to a 1 year, 1.2 Million dollar contract.

[izvoodoo]

It's not chris Carr cs. Wilson, it's more like foxworth vs. wilson.

But we get zibby back. I think as a WHOLE our safety position is better. And I think just with natural progress from our players, we should be better.

[TheSim]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1313522083' post='752644']
August 4th we signed him to a 1 year, 1.2 Million dollar contract.
[/quote]

Dear Lord, you're right, however that was a set amount based on the fact that we tendered him as a RFA. We tendered him way back in February. Was a risk, but if he pans out as a backup guard it's not terrible.

[The King]

Ricky Williams vs. Willis McGahee-tie

[b]Bernard Pollard[/b] vs. Dawan Landry

[b]Vonta Leach[/b] vs. LeRon McClain

[b]Lee Evans[/b] vs Derrick Mason

[b]Torrey Smith[/b] vs Donte Stallworth

[b]Tandon Doss[/b] vs TJ Houshmandzadeh

Dennis Pitta vs Todd Heap-tie

Ed Dickson vs Todd Heap-tie

Chris Carr vs Josh Wilson-tie

Todd Hap is a better blocker than Dennis Pitta or Ed Dickson, but both of them are good athletes, younger, less expensive, and good pass catchers. All in all it's too close to call between having just Heap as the starter and the two of them trading off.

The call for Carr vs. Wilson comes down to where you believe they'd be playing. If we're talking about as one of our top two corners then I would prefer Wilson, but I'd rather have Carr to play as the nickel corner. If Cary Williams and Jimmy Smith end up as our starting corners, and they're better than Wilson, then Carr will have been the better choice.

Here's one--just Terrell Suggs and Ngata, or those guys plus an improved Kruger, Jones, and McPhee. The pass rush is, I think, much improved.

[scrock]

[quote name='evil-eye1' timestamp='1313521789' post='752638']
we will sorely miss landry, wilson and mason....big-time! Pollard can hit but he cant cover. Evans only has one trick up his sleeve...dude rarly goes across the middle. Carr will be a liability. as far as rookies, i dont even place any stock in them their 1st year. if the ravens are depending on rookies to help them win, then we're in trouble(especially the 1st half of the season).
[/quote]

negative

Lee Evans is an upgrade over Mason

Landry was solid against the run but he was never special against the pass, Pollard made some nice plays in the first preseason game, he's been a solid player in the past

Carr started most of the season last year....you are overrating the players we lost and under valuing the players we brought in

[evil-eye1]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1313523214' post='752659']
negative

Lee Evans is an upgrade over Mason

Landry was solid against the run but he was never special against the pass, Pollard made some nice plays in the first preseason game, he's been a solid player in the past

Carr started most of the season last year....you are overrating the players we lost and under valuing the players we brought in
[/quote]
the point is bringing in people who will make u significantly better....not make moves of desperation. the ONLY reason we got evans is because mason didnt want to come back here. Evans is an average receiver with very good straight-line speed(like 98% of the CBs in the league). ironically, his best game was against us. another desperate move: Pollard is a run stopping safety. dude cant cover AT ALL. landry is better than pollard. dont thro him under the bus because we couldnt sign him. landry wanted more money(rightfully so)...wilson vs, carr?? not even close. ozzie blew it here. im a real ravens fan....i dont do purple pom-poms.

[evil-eye1]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1313523381' post='752662']
no he's just not a pessimist and more of a realist
[/quote]
Pessimist?? lol remember when i said last year that we have too many # 2 possesion receivers and no elite speed guys who can be a #1?...many of u said i was too negative...a steeler troll...didnt know football etc etc. turns out, we had too many possesion receivers and no elite speed guy. lol so im more of a realist dude...i dont wear purple pom-poms. i'll let my girlfriend do that.

[evil-eye1]

[quote name='Runnin Raven' timestamp='1313524900' post='752690']
Well that's understandable. Waving that yellow towel has gotta make your arms awfully tired.
[/quote]
dude im a ravens season ticket holder....so i put my money where my heart is. those ticket prices force me to keep it real.(lol)...so i have every right to my opinion. some of u say the same stuff on this board every year with nothing analytical to back up your rants/opinions. rah,rah,rah types! lol

[*kid_chaos100*]

JoeMac took my signature!!! >: (

[Juviebest]

[quote name='evil-eye1' timestamp='1313524161' post='752673']
the point is bringing in people who will make u significantly better....not make moves of desperation. the ONLY reason we got evans is because mason didnt want to come back here. Evans is an average receiver with very good straight-line speed(like 98% of the CBs in the league). ironically, his best game was against us. another desperate move: Pollard is a run stopping safety. dude cant cover AT ALL. landry is better than pollard. dont thro him under the bus because we couldnt sign him. landry wanted more money(rightfully so)...wilson vs, carr?? not even close. ozzie blew it here. im a real ravens fan....i dont do purple pom-poms.
[/quote]

Pretty positive we never offered Mase a contract. Perhaps that's why he's not back? And Pollard is better then Landry. A better tackler (watch that home Steelers game from last year) and about the same in coverage. We didn't have to resign Wilson...we did draft Jimmy and have Fox coming back, plus we need to see what Cary can do in the regular season. Have some faith in our team.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Juviebest' timestamp='1313526363' post='752725']
Pretty positive we never offered Mase a contract. Perhaps that's why he's not back? And Pollard is better then Landry. A better tackler (watch that home Steelers game from last year) and about the same in coverage. We didn't have to resign Wilson...we did draft Jimmy and have Fox coming back, plus we need to see what Cary can do in the regular season. [b]Have some faith in our team.[/b]
[/quote]
That's the problem....its not his ("our") team!

[flynismo]

[quote name='evil-eye1' timestamp='1313525310' post='752699']<br />dude im a ravens season ticket holder....so i put my money where my heart is. those ticket prices force me to keep it real.(lol)...so i have every right to my opinion. some of u say the same stuff on this board every year with nothing analytical to back up your rants/opinions. rah,rah,rah types! lol<br />[/quote]


i know where you're coming from. It is annoying as hell to listen to negativity all the time, but no more so than listening to how all our practice squadders are future All-Pros, or how every guy at every position is great or elite, or how every guy on our bench other than Cousins has a bright future if just given the chance.

But my biggest pet peeve of all is when people equate negativity or modesty with realism. Which is basically how you are coming off as.

[evil-eye1]

[quote name='Juviebest' timestamp='1313526363' post='752725']
Pretty positive we never offered Mase a contract. Perhaps that's why he's not back? And Pollard is better then Landry. A better tackler (watch that home Steelers game from last year) and about the same in coverage. We didn't have to resign Wilson...we did draft Jimmy and have Fox coming back, plus we need to see what Cary can do in the regular season. Have some faith in our team.
[/quote]
we didnt offer mason a contract initially because we thought he wasnt going anywhere and therefore can resign him at a cheaper price. mason then called the ravens bluff...thats why "he's not back?" lol landry is better in coverage than pollard. expand your football watching from only the ravens and go watch pollard get burned on video numerous times. and if we are depending on "jimmy", a rookie, then are we really in good shape...teams use 4 & 5 wides now, u do know that? and our pass rush is suspect. oh wait, we signed carr over wilson...lol and finally, you dont experiment with players like Cary when your 1st opponent is the steelers....btw, i love the ravens but this is conversation about did we upgrade. not about having faith in the team.

[evil-eye1]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1313527334' post='752742']
i know where you're coming from. It is annoying as hell to listen to negativity all the time, but no more so than listening to how all our practice squadders are future All-Pros, or how every guy at every position is great or elite, or how every guy on our bench other than Cousins has a bright future if just given the chance.

But my biggest pet peeve of all is when people equate negativity or modesty with realism. Which is basically how you are coming off as.
[/quote]
exactly......THANX BRO! 'preciate it!

[acranfor]

[quote name='evil-eye1' timestamp='1313526516' post='752727']
ravens ALL DAY!! "ugh"?? must be the toddler hour...lol where are the real raven fans at who actually know football.
[/quote]

What does only being critical of the ravens bring to this forum? Also, you keep claiming you know so much more about football than everyone here, yet I have not seen any examples of it...

You have not supported any of your arguments...for example you stated that Wilson is miles ahead of Carr. Well I think "Sanchez is better than Brady" (sarcasm) because I know more about football than any of you so it must be right...that is essentially your argument strategy.

You forget one simple fact. The front office and specifically Ozzie know more about football than all of us (yes including you), so there must be some method to their decisions.

Now to actually contribute to this forum...re: upgrades:

I think it is unknown yet whether Pollard will be an upgrade over Landry. I will say with confidence though that i think a rotation of Pollard and Zibby will be an upgrade. I think our passrush has the potential to be better than last year and should be better than last year (kindle, kruger, AJ, McPhee, 2011 JJ, 2011 Redding should at least give us one option that could exceed JJ+Reddings numbers from last year). Our CBs are a little shaky, but if the Jimmy and even Williams pan out they could be very good together. I honestly think Webb will never be a true starter and am not that confident in Foxworth with his knee (at least right away). I think Carr and Wilson is a wash to tell the truth. Some people like to put Wilson on a pedistool because of the OT pick in the Texans game, but look at the 2010 stats...

Summary:
Defense
2011 DL > 2010 DL (Ngata back, Cody could be huge (no pun intended), AJ looks good, McPhee could surprise, Redding is solid and could breakout)
2011 OLBs > 2010 OLBs (Suggs back, Kindle+JJ+Kruger should produce)
2011 ILBs = 2010 ILBs (with potential to be worse with Ray's age..dont shoot me)
2011 CBs = 2010 CBs (with potential to be better, maybe far better)
2011 FS/SS > 2010 FS/SS (healthy Reed, Pollard+Zibby > Landry)

Offense
2011 QB > 2010 QB (If Joe progresses as he has from yr to yr)
2011 Run > 2010 Run (Better FB, equal short yard back only because of age)
2011 OL < 2010 OL (will see how they mitigate in coming weeks)
2011 TE > 2010 TE (I know Heap will be a fan favorite but his numbers have been falling...I think Pitta/Dickson will be huge for us)
2011 WR > 2010 WR (Better spread of talent, more options, younger)

[evil-eye1]

[quote name='evil-eye1' timestamp='1313527497' post='752748']
exactly......THANX BRO! 'preciate it!
[/quote]
realism is always positive or negative tho'....it is what it is.

[cant knock the hustle]

We upgraded.

Offense:

Flacco is a year better and we have some diverse weapons offensively. We have a number of receivers that complement one another well and speed to suit Flacco's arm strength. Losing Heap will hurt, but Dickson and Pitta look like they will be at least solid. Ricky Williams is better than McGahee. Look at the numbers. Vonta Leach is an upgrade over McClain. He is the best pure FB in the league.

Our O-line is the same if not worse than last year. This unit needs help. Positives: Oher is a year older and hopefully better. Yanda is at his natural position where he should be stellar. Negatives: Birk will not last a full year. We are in serious trouble without him. He is the leader of our line and one of the smartest players on our offense. RT is a hole. Reid is not ready. This means Yanda may have to slide over, which negates one of our positives.

Defense:

I liked Eisenberg's article on the homepage. If you believe in what he wrote, then our defense upgraded. If not, our defense will be similar to last years. We don't give our rookies that much playing time on D unless absolutely necessary so I do not foresee McPhee getting much time (although I hope he forces his way onto the field).

Reed will be (hopefully) healthy for a full year.

People try to compare Landry with Pollard. Pollard is better in run support but worse in coverage. That is why we will rotate him with Zibo and Ruki who are better than Landry in coverage.

Our defense will also be more aggressive with Pagano which should help our pass rush and coverage although we will probably be more susceptible to the big play like in years past.

We are better than last year.

[evil-eye1]

[quote name='acranfor' timestamp='1313527831' post='752752']
What does only being critical of the ravens bring to this forum? Also, you keep claiming you know so much more about football than everyone here, yet I have not seen any examples of it...

You have not supported any of your arguments...for example you stated that Wilson is miles ahead of Carr. Well I think "Sanchez is better than Brady" (sarcasm) because I know more about football than any of you so it must be right...that is essentially your argument strategy.

You forget one simple fact. The front office and specifically Ozzie know more about football than all of us (yes including you), so there must be some method to their decisions.

Now to actually contribute to this forum...re: upgrades:

I think it is unknown yet whether Pollard will be an upgrade over Landry. I will say with confidence though that i think a rotation of Pollard and Zibby will be an upgrade. I think our passrush has the potential to be better than last year and should be better than last year (kindle, kruger, AJ, McPhee, 2011 JJ, 2011 Redding should at least give us one option that could exceed JJ+Reddings numbers from last year). Our CBs are a little shaky, but if the Jimmy and even Williams pan out they could be very good together. I honestly think Webb will never be a true starter and am not that confident in Foxworth with his knee (at least right away). I think Carr and Wilson is a wash to tell the truth. Some people like to put Wilson on a pedistool because of the OT pick in the Texans game, but look at the 2010 stats...

Summary:
Defense
2011 DL > 2010 DL (Ngata back, Cody could be huge (no pun intended), AJ looks good, McPhee could surprise, Redding is solid and could breakout)
2011 OLBs > 2010 OLBs (Suggs back, Kindle+JJ+Kruger should produce)
2011 ILBs = 2010 ILBs (with potential to be worse with Ray's age..dont shoot me)
2011 CBs = 2010 CBs (with potential to be better, maybe far better)
2011 FS/SS > 2010 FS/SS (healthy Reed, Pollard+Zibby > Landry)

Offense
2011 QB > 2010 QB (If Joe progresses as he has from yr to yr)
2011 Run > 2010 Run (Better FB, equal short yard back only because of age)
2011 OL < 2010 OL (will see how they mitigate in coming weeks)
2011 TE > 2010 TE (I know Heap will be a fan favorite but his numbers have been falling...I think Pitta/Dickson will be huge for us)
2011 WR > 2010 WR (Better spread of talent, more options, younger)
[/quote]
dude, you wrote all that just to say " i think" lol ozzie's 1st goal as a GM is to control cost. specifically, get under that salary cap..so he had to let players go(not that he wanted to)... simply, wilson, mason, and landry have performed at a high level helping us get to the play-offs...what have evans and pollard done for the ravens?? and wilson was a better cover corner than carr....wilson upon his arrival settled down a very weak secondary. so these 3 guys prove themselves as ravens...the playoffs dont lie. now how did we upgrade?

[evil-eye1]

many of you talk "if", "what if", "probably" "maybe".....that doesnt win football games. mason, landry, and wilson are proven...they helped us win football games(playoff games also). these new comers(pollard,evans) didnt even help their previous team win...so how are they upgrades all of a sudden? the jury is still out.

[acranfor]

[quote name='evil-eye1' timestamp='1313528950' post='752771']
dude, you wrote all that just to say " i think" lol ozzie's 1st goal as a GM is to control cost. specifically, get under that salary cap..so he had to let players go(not that he wanted to)... simply, wilson, mason, and landry have performed at a high level helping us get to the play-offs...what have evans and pollard done for the ravens?? and wilson was a better cover corner than carr....wilson upon his arrival settled down a very weak secondary. so these 3 guys prove themselves as ravens...the playoffs dont lie. now how did we upgrade?
[/quote]


Well "I think" because it is not the 2011 season yet and I can not know, I thought that was common sense...None of us can know how this season is going to turn out. I have no problem with you thinking we did not upgrade...that is what a forum is for; to express opinions. My problem is you criticizing others and simply saying "I am right because I know more about football". That is pretty laughable. All we can do right now is use "If" or "I think" because we cannot see into the future...again thought this was pretty logical...

I agree that Mason did perform for the Ravens, but he is also 37 years old. Evans adds another dimension to the offense at a younger age. (and by the way Mason is cheaper than Evans re: your statement on cost control) Didn't you say yourself that your almighty football mind told all of us last year that we were too one dimensional at WR. Well now we go out and get another dimension and you disagree...? hmmm. Now we have a better and more productive and younger possession WR in Boldin and a proven deep threat (although for another team) in Evans. I do not really understand your logic...Yes, again I do agree that Mason did produce but do not agree that you can say with confidence that our WRs got worse. Mason also did not produce in the playoffs...so I guess playoffs do not lie...

To go along with your argument; Wilson did not perform for the Ravens in 2009 so why in the world did we pick him up???? Hmmm new players will have the chance to prove themselves...common sense. So if you had it your way, rookies would never play because they have never proven themselves so therefore they are not valuable? Wow I guess if you were coaching the Pats, Brady would never be the Tom Brady we know today.

Re: Pollard vs Landry

2010 Pollard = 111 Tackles, 2.5 Sacks, 4 Forced Fumbles, 5 PDs (played 15 games)
2010 Landry = 111 Tackles, 1 Sack, 1 FF, 4 PDs (played 16 games)

Overall, I agree that Wilson and Mason (and Heap) were valuable to our team...Wilson more so than Mason because of Mason's age. Landry I disagree. But...you have to give new payers chances to shine and do well. Mason and Heap are on the far downslope of their career, why keep them and hinder the growth of younger players with more potential? Again, the FO knows more than you and me and scouts players more than watching some youtube clips...

[BaltimoreBean]

[quote name='acranfor' timestamp='1313536557' post='752848']
Well "I think" because it is not the 2011 season yet and I can not know, I thought that was common sense...None of us can know how this season is going to turn out. I have no problem with you thinking we did not upgrade...that is what a forum is for; to express opinions. My problem is you criticizing others and simply saying "I am right because I know more about football". That is pretty laughable. All we can do right now is use "If" or "I think" because we cannot see into the future...again thought this was pretty logical...

I agree that Mason did perform for the Ravens, but he is also 37 years old. Evans adds another dimension to the offense at a younger age. (and by the way Mason is cheaper than Evans re: your statement on cost control) Didn't you say yourself that your almighty football mind told all of us last year that we were too one dimensional at WR. Well now we go out and get another dimension and you disagree...? hmmm. Now we have a better and more productive and younger possession WR in Boldin and a proven deep threat (although for another team) in Evans. I do not really understand your logic...Yes, again I do agree that Mason did produce but do not agree that you can say with confidence that our WRs got worse. Mason also did not produce in the playoffs...so I guess playoffs do not lie...

To go along with your argument; Wilson did not perform for the Ravens in 2009 so why in the world did we pick him up???? Hmmm new players will have the chance to prove themselves...common sense. So if you had it your way, rookies would never play because they have never proven themselves so therefore they are not valuable? Wow I guess if you were coaching the Pats, Brady would never be the Tom Brady we know today.

Re: Pollard vs Landry

2010 Pollard = 111 Tackles, 2.5 Sacks, 4 Forced Fumbles, 5 PDs (played 15 games)
2010 Landry = 111 Tackles, 1 Sack, 1 FF, 4 PDs (played 16 games)

Overall, I agree that Wilson and Mason (and Heap) were valuable to our team...Wilson more so than Mason because of Mason's age. Landry I disagree. But...you have to give new payers chances to shine and do well. Mason and Heap are on the far downslope of their career, why keep them and hinder the growth of younger players with more potential? Again, the FO knows more than you and me and scouts players more than watching some youtube clips...
[/quote]


Amen!

[Free Agent]

Ricky Williams vs. Willis McGahee

[b]Bernard Pollard[/b] vs. Dawan Landry

[b]Vonta Leach[/b] vs. LeRon McClain

[b]Lee Evans[/b] vs Derrick Mason

[b]Torrey Smith[/b] vs Donte Stallworth

[b]Tandon Doss[/b] vs TJ Houshmanzadeh

Dennis Pitta vs [b]Todd Heap[/b]

Ed Dickson vs [b]Todd Heap[/b]

Chris Carr vs [b]Josh Wilson[/b]

[b]Jimmy Smith[/b] vs Fabian Washington

I think we definitely upgraded at key positions. Leach really helps the rushing attack, while Evans, Torrey Smith, and Doss will be strong additions to the passing attack. Bernard Pollard is a better version of Dawan Landry, and Jimmy Smith plus Chris Carr is better than Josh Wilson and Fabian Washington. The Ravens seemed quiet this offseason, but they have been quietly upgrading the whole time.

[TDubbs]

Receivers - Anything is an upgrade over having 3 possession receivers and a guy who does end arounds. Boldin is a better possession receiver then Mason and now we have added speed around him to open the underneath for 81 to do his thing. Evans and Torrey have elite speed. TDoss looks to have some great hands and smarts... may be a younger mason.

TEs - Loved Heap to death, but he was starting to show his age. I wish him the best in Arizona. However we did not draft 2 very gifted athletic tight ends to sit on the bench. Dickson showed great things last year and I love Pittas potential as a supreme pass catcher.

Safeties - Dawan was a good player for us. Him and Pollard are similar players with equally similar stats last year. Pollard tore it up when we played the Texans last year. I like Pollard better in coverage (especially after last weeks pick even though it was a horrible throw in preseason) As well as a blitzer. I take the cheaper Pollard with Zibby and Ruki competing.

Corners - I had a man crush on Josh Wilson last year, I feel hes the only one we were sad to let go. Hes an explosive play maker and he will help those Skins in a big way. Chris Carr is very dependable though and knows this system. Rarely misses a tackle. Love him as a nickel corner. Jimmy Smith over Fabs Washington is a no brainer (Even though Jimmy is unproven). Fabian was cut whether we drafted Jimmy or not.

Runningbacks - Vonta is a big upgrade over LeRon simply for the fact he wants to pave the way for Ray Rice to run the rock, and was a pro bowler last year. Ricky Williams has plenty of game left, not being a starter I think he may thrive when given the ball. Cheaper option then Willis and will produce just as much probably.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1313505331' post='752388']
Ricky Williams even at his age is an upgrade over Willis at a cheaper price. Williams

For all of you who think Landry was bad in coverage, Pollard is even worse. Landry

LeRon was actually pretty good in run-blocking and being a well rounded back, he was horrible in pass protection. Leach is an elite blocker. Leach

I think Mason is a better receiver than Evans even at 37, but Evans is a better fit for Cam's offense. Evans

Stallworth only caught a couple passes so its hard not the say Smith is an upgrade. I'm just hoping Smith doesn't turn into Yamon Figurs. Smith

TJ was pretty underrated last year. He was usually reliable besides the playoff game, but he was also a pretty good run blocker. I don't think Doss can compare in his rookie season. TJ

Pitta looks solid but seems to lose his focus. Dickson also didn't have Heap's receiving ability, but Dickson was actually one of the best blocking TEs last year and Heap was one of the worst. Even

Carr was on the team last year, so I wouldn't include him. Jimmy Smith is a bigger and elite talent at CB so I give him the edge over Wilson. Smith

Also, we still haven't found a replacement for Chester, so he wins.

Better: 4 players. Worse: 4 players. We're about the same in terms of talent level this year, but we've set ourselves up to be good for a longer period of time.
[/quote]

Meant to give you a + but on mobile hit - instead. I agree with everything you said, except by the end of the season I think Doss will be just as reliable as TJ as a 3rd down guy and slot/over the middle receiver. I'm real excited to see how Doss develops this year.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1313545122' post='752952']
Meant to give you a + but on mobile hit - instead. I agree with everything you said, except by the end of the season I think Doss will be just as reliable as TJ as a 3rd down guy and slot/over the middle receiver. I'm real excited to see how Doss develops this year.
[/quote]
Complete side note, but if you're on a mobile device, highly recommend using the mobile skin by scrolling to the bottom and shoocing "IP. Board Mobile". Loads WAY faster and thats all I use, even when on a PC.

[MagicianCamille]

Ricky Williams vs. [b]Willis McGahee[/b]

Bernard Pollard vs. [b]Dawan Landry[/b]

Vonta Leach vs. [b]LeRon McClain[/b]

Lee Evans vs [b]Derrick Mason[/b]

Torrey Smith vs [b]Donte Stallworth[/b]

Tandon Doss vs [b]TJ Houshmanzadeh[/b]

Dennis Pitta vs [b]Todd Heap[/b]

Ed Dickson vs [b]Todd Heap[/b]

Chris Carr vs [b]Josh Wilson[/b]

Hmmmm, I wonder.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='MagicianCamille' timestamp='1313545715' post='752964']
Ricky Williams vs. [b]Willis McGahee[/b]

Bernard Pollard vs. [b]Dawan Landry[/b]

Vonta Leach vs. [b]LeRon McClain[/b]

Lee Evans vs [b]Derrick Mason[/b]

Torrey Smith vs [b]Donte Stallworth[/b]

Tandon Doss vs [b]TJ Houshmanzadeh[/b]

Dennis Pitta vs [b]Todd Heap[/b]

Ed Dickson vs [b]Todd Heap[/b]

Chris Carr vs [b]Josh Wilson[/b]

Hmmmm, I wonder.
[/quote]
Not sure what you're doing here....making a joke or just showing complete ignorance to viewing talent. Please enlighten us and explain your findings.