Ravens Receiving Corps

[callahan09]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1312939251' post='742950']


I think you're reading too much into that play. Not only should Joe never have lofted the ball, Heap lost the lateral ability to adjust to a pass like that years ago.

And the battle definitely wasn't lost at that point.
[/quote]

Yeah, Flacco overthrew that ball and he did it again in the final drive of the game. Flacco just didn't utilize Heap correctly at all in that game. Flacco had two golden opportunities to get the ball to Heap for a first down in the final drive of the game and failed to make the connection.

Here's my interpretation of that abysmal team failure of a final drive:


[u]1st down:[/u]
This one's entirely Flacco's fault.

Absolutely horrible throw from Flacco, sails it way over the head of Todd Heap. Would have been a beautiful completion for a first down if Flacco had only thrown it on target.

[u]2nd down:[/u]
This one is largely, but not entirely, Flacco's fault, but also it's Mason's fault, and Cam's for calling the play.

Mason can't run these deep routes and get separation, he just doesn't have the speed. That said, the throw was also pretty well under-thrown and nearly led to an interception. I don't think there was anything Flacco could have done to make this a complete pass, but if he'd thrown it farther, it would have been closer, and it wouldn't have been nearly picked off. I'll give Mason credit for breaking up the interception that frankly should have happened right there, and I'll chastize Flacco for throwing it in Mason's direction to begin with, when he had Todd Heap wide open just a cuople yards shy of the first down and plenty of room to get some YAC and make the first. It was stupid to try to get it to Mason 20 yards past what we needed for the first with Heap open right there near the first.

[u]3rd down:[/u]
This one is mostly the fault of the offensive line.

Marshal Yanda fails miserably to stop James Harrison coming through.
Chris Chester then leaves his man (Ziggy Hood) to go help out Yanda with Harrison.
Meanwhile, Ray Rice fails on a cut below the knees that Lawrence Timmons jumps clean over.

So Timmons and Hood wind up right in Flacco's face in about 2 seconds or less, with Harrison right behind him, and nowhere to go.
Catastrophic failure of protection in a crucial moment, right there.

[u]4th down:[/u]
This one is entire Housh's fault.

I don't even have to explain it. Protection did it's job, Flacco did his job, Housh got open, the ball lands right at his chest, right on his hands, and he just doesn't hold on.

...

I still can't get over how winnable that game was, but we just threw it away or let it slip through our fingers. I am one of Joe Flacco's biggest fans, supporters, and defenders, but he just wasn't playing well that game, he was over-throwing the ball or not throwing it to the right receiver. Despite it, because Pittsburgh made so many errors of their own, we were *still* in a position to win the game, and Flacco did make good catchable throws to guys like Housh and Mason that should have been caught but instead were dropped, so I don't think Flacco is too blame for the loss, the team is to blame, but Flacco had his worst game since week 2 in Cinci, that's for sure.

...

For our receiving corps this year, I think we're in better shape than last year. Doss seems to have good hands, which we desperately need because we had a lot of problems with players dropping passes last year. Smith seems to have great speed, which we need, because we had no deep threat last year. Boldin's back, who was our best receiver last year. Mason's gone, who I think was a distraction and just started sucking balls towards him because of his diva antics and attitude when those balls should have going somewhere else... I think him being gone will open up Flacco's vision to the other guys on the field and he'll stat to find the guys that are actually open instead of looking at Mason all the time. And maybe part of the reason Flacco kept over-throwing Heap (Heap seemed to me to be the guy most frequently over-thrown), is because Heap just wasn't fast enough to get downfield to where Flacco as targeting for him to be? I don't know. But I think that all of these moves in our receiving corps give us much needed youth, speed, sticky fingers, and versatility, and if it doesn't get us to a super bowl this year, I can only believe that it's the right move for our future.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='callahan09' timestamp='1313000883' post='743464']
Yeah, Flacco overthrew that ball and he did it again in the final drive of the game. Flacco just didn't utilize Heap correctly at all in that game. Flacco had two golden opportunities to get the ball to Heap for a first down in the final drive of the game and failed to make the connection.

Here's my interpretation of that abysmal team failure of a final drive:

[u]1st down:[/u]
This one's entirely Flacco's fault.

Absolutely horrible throw from Flacco, sails it way over the head of Todd Heap. Would have been a beautiful completion for a first down if Flacco had only thrown it on target.

[u]2nd down:[/u]
This one is largely, but not entirely, Flacco's fault, but also it's Mason's fault, and Cam's for calling the play.

Mason can't run these deep routes and get separation, he just doesn't have the speed. That said, the throw was also pretty well under-thrown and nearly led to an interception. I don't think there was anything Flacco could have done to make this a complete pass, but if he'd thrown it farther, it would have been closer, and it wouldn't have been nearly picked off. I'll give Mason credit for breaking up the interception that frankly should have happened right there, and I'll chastize Flacco for throwing it in Mason's direction to begin with, when he had Todd Heap wide open just a cuople yards shy of the first down and plenty of room to get some YAC and make the first. It was stupid to try to get it to Mason 20 yards past what we needed for the first with Heap open right there near the first.

[u]3rd down:[/u]
This one is mostly the fault of the offensive line.

Marshal Yanda fails miserably to stop James Harrison coming through.
[b]Chris Chester then leaves his man (Ziggy Hood) to go help out Yanda with Harrison.[/b]
Meanwhile, Ray Rice fails on a cut below the knees that Lawrence Timmons jumps clean over.

So Timmons and Hood wind up right in Flacco's face in about 2 seconds or less, with Harrison right behind him, and nowhere to go.
Catastrophic failure of protection in a crucial moment, right there.

[u]4th down:[/u]
This one is entire Housh's fault.

I don't even have to explain it. Protection did it's job, Flacco did his job, Housh got open, the ball lands right at his chest, right on his hands, and he just doesn't hold on.

I still can't get over how winnable that game was, but we just threw it away or let it slip through our fingers. I am one of Joe Flacco's biggest fans, supporters, and defenders, but he just wasn't playing well that game, he was over-throwing the ball or not throwing it to the right receiver. Despite it, because Pittsburgh made so many errors of their own, we were *still* in a position to win the game, and Flacco did make good catchable throws to guys like Housh and Mason that should have been caught but instead were dropped, so I don't think Flacco is too blame for the loss, the team is to blame, but Flacco had his worst game since week 2 in Cinci, that's for sure.

For our receiving corps this year, I think we're in better shape than last year. Doss seems to have good hands, [b]which we desperately need because we had a lot of problems with players dropping passes last year[/b]. Smith seems to have great speed, which we need, because we had no deep threat last year. Boldin's back, who was our best receiver last year. Mason's gone, who I think was a distraction and just started sucking balls towards him because of his diva antics and attitude when those balls should have going somewhere else... I think him being gone will open up Flacco's vision to the other guys on the field and he'll stat to find the guys that are actually open instead of looking at Mason all the time. And maybe part of the reason Flacco kept over-throwing Heap (Heap seemed to me to be the guy most frequently over-thrown), is because Heap just wasn't fast enough to get downfield to where Flacco as targeting for him to be? I don't know. But I think that all of these moves in our receiving corps give us much needed youth, speed, sticky fingers, and versatility, and if it doesn't get us to a super bowl this year, I can only believe that it's the right move for our future.
[/quote]

Good breakdown.

I'll always refer to that play as proof of how bad Chester was.

To your point about the drops, aside from the playoff game in Pittsburgh they really weren't a big issue last season. I clearly remember CBS running a graphic during the playoff game that said Ravens WRs either dropped the fewest passes or were among the least drop-prone in the NFL.

[Gordo52]

I think Joe will make Torry and Tandom big names this year.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1312977742' post='743236']
Unless David Reed steps up I think we are relying on young receivers too much. These receivers especially, considering that they have only been in camp for like 10 days. I don't think we can honestly say that some of these receivers are ready to play the Steelers, one of the best defenses in the league, in a month. I mean I think it can be done but it definitely makes me nervous.
[/quote]

I agree with you, there will be some tough moments against the Steelers in week 1 with these young guys. Even if Reed and Hardy come back strong over the next 3 weeks.

However, when you really think about it, how much worse can our WR/TE play get against the Steelers?

Over the last 3 years(Flacco Era) the Ravens have played the Steelers 8 times including the playoffs.

Here's the total production we got from our WR/TE positions in those games.

Heap: 13rec 171yds 3TDs (7 games) That's a total of about 1.8 catches and 24 yards per game.

Mason: 30rec 343yds 1TD(8games). That's a total of about 3.7 catches 42.8 yards per game.

Housh: 11rec 107yds 1TD(3games). That's a total of about 3.7 catches 35.7 yards per game.

Wash:: 2rec 42yds OTD(2games). That's 1 catch 21 yards per game.

Clayton: 12rec 185 0TD(4games). That's 3 catches 46 yards per game.

Also, Mason, Clayton and Heap have all been held catch-less at least once against the Steelers. Both Clayton and Heap missed at least 1 game due to injury. While in both playoff matchups, the Steelers held Mason to 0 catches.

I think at this point, the Ravens are saying, how can the young guys be any worse then what we've been getting over the last 3 years?

When you break it down, I think Boldin can more then account for Mason's production vs the Steelers and probably surpass it.

I think Dickson is fully capable of matching Heap's 2 catches for 24 yard mark. Actually Dickson had 3 catches for 24 yards in the regular season matchup vs the Steelers, and dropped a pass where he was wide open for a potentially huge play.

Clayton had success in one game vs the Steelers, and was basically non existent in the others. So any production from Torrey Smith will probably be better.

Can Doss, Reed, Hardy and Pitta, account for the lost prodution of Housh and Washington? It won't be hard imo.

And now you can add our Running Game back into the mix this year, so that's something else the Steelers hopefully have to account for.

So while it'll be tough for the young guys, especially with their first game being against the Steelers, they could possibly give us more production then we got against the Steelers last year.

[Free Agent]

As much as I hate to do this, allow me to draw attention to the Steelers WR corps of last year. The Steelers WR corps was greatly successful, with only one experienced veteran. Hines Ward was the only contributing Steelers WR with over two years of experience, except for Antwaan Randle-El who contributed mainly on special teams.

Besides Ward, the Steelers had Mike Wallace, a second year WR; Emmanuel Sanders, a rookie 3rd round pick; and Antonio Brown, a rookie 6th round pick. These WRs were a huge part of the Steelers Superbowl run.

I believe that Anquan Boldin and the Ravens rookie WRs can succeed this season. All it will take is some help from Joe Flacco, and of course Cam Cameron.

[Ravensfan23]

Also another interesting thing about that Week 1 match up, at least interesting to me, is this......

The last time the Ravens had a strong running game and a capable QB was in 2006. The combined scores of those 2 games was Ravens 58, Steelers 7.

Back in 06' the Ravens offensive plan was to attack Troy Polomalu and that seemingly weak Steelers secondary. Well to be honest not much has changed, and while Cam actually tried this strategy last season, we just didn't have the personnel and production to do so.

That year the Ravens had a experienced QB, 9th year vet, a 2nd year guy and rookie at WR, much like we have now. We went out and added Mike Anderson to help us run the ball better, while also having question marks about our Oline. The biggest difference is at the TE position, were Todd Heap lead our team in receptions that year.

In those 2 games vs the Steelers in 06, the Ravens ran the ball efficiently and effectively. Because of that we were able to take advantage of a athletic Heap at TE, and Clayton/Dwill down field. I expect to see that same type approach by the Ravens in Week 1.

I'm not saying we'll destroy the Steelers in Week 1 like we did back in 06', although personally I feel really strong about the success we'll have in that game, but we could very well have a really good start to the season in Week 1.

I'm excited, should be fun.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1313015472' post='743687']
Also another interesting thing about that Week 1 match up, at least interesting to me, is this......

[b]The last time the Ravens had a strong running game and a capable QB was in 2006.[/b] The combined scores of those 2 games was Ravens 58, Steelers 7.

Back in 06' the Ravens offensive plan was to attack Troy Polomalu and that seemingly weak Steelers secondary. Well to be honest not much has changed, and while Cam actually tried this strategy last season, we just didn't have the personnel and production to do so.

That year the Ravens had a experienced QB, 9th year vet, a 2nd year guy and rookie at WR, much like we have now. We went out and added Mike Anderson to help us run the ball better, while also having question marks about our Oline. The biggest difference is at the TE position, were Todd Heap lead our team in receptions that year.

In those 2 games vs the Steelers in 06, the Ravens ran the ball efficiently and effectively. Because of that we were able to take advantage of a athletic Heap at TE, and Clayton/Dwill down field. I expect to see that same type approach by the Ravens in Week 1.

I'm not saying we'll destroy the Steelers in Week 1 like we did back in 06', although personally I feel really strong about the success we'll have in that game, but we could very well have a really good start to the season in Week 1.

I'm excited, should be fun.
[/quote]

I agree with the gist of your post, but I'd actually say the last time the Ravens had a strong running game and a capable QB was 2009. Rice picked up a respectable 88 yards on 19 carries in the first game against the Steelers, and gashed them for 141 in the second. I think that might have been the last Pittsburgh has surrendered a 100-yard rusher. And while there some bad plays in both games, Flacco was solid for the most part, and should have had another TD in the November match-up.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1313016383' post='743694']
I agree with the gist of your post, but I'd actually say the last time the Ravens had a strong running game and a capable QB was 2009. Rice picked up a respectable 88 yards on 19 carries in the first game against the Steelers, and gashed them for 141 in the second. I think that might have been the last Pittsburgh has surrendered a 100-yard rusher. And while there some bad plays in both games, Flacco was solid for the most part, and should have had another TD in the November match-up.
[/quote]

We we had a really strong running game and while we should have won that game, and the other one for that matter, Flacco was only in his 2nd year and was still prone to a few...what was he thinking type mistakes. Not saying he wasn't capable, I just think McNair in 06' had a better grasp and understand of what he wanted to do and when he needed to do it.

That's how I view Flacco this year. He's always had the physical talent, but the other parts weren't quite there. I think this year, Flacco will be fully capable of taking advantage and attack the Steelers defense, forcing them to play tight and mistake free, instead of the other way around.

In 06' the Steelers couldn't make mistakes against Mac 9 because he would have and did make them pay for it. I don't think they are at the point were they fear making a mistake with Flacco.

And yes Ray Rice was the last RB to game 100 yards on the Steelers run defense. So it's only right they he be the next right?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1313016887' post='743698']
We we had a really strong running game and while we should have won that game, and the other one for that matter, Flacco was only in his 2nd year and was still prone to a few...what was he thinking type mistakes. Not saying he wasn't capable, I just think McNair in 06' had a better grasp and understand of what he wanted to do and when he needed to do it.

That's how I view Flacco this year. He's always had the physical talent, but the other parts weren't quite there. I think this year, Flacco will be fully capable of taking advantage and attack the Steelers defense, forcing them to play tight and mistake free, instead of the other way around.

In 06' the Steelers couldn't make mistakes against Mac 9 because he would have and did make them pay for it. I don't think they are at the point were they fear making a mistake with Flacco.

And yes Ray Rice was the last RB to game 100 yards on the Steelers run defense. So it's only right they he be the next right?
[/quote]

While the statistics suggest otherwise, I can agree McNair was more refined in '06. Agreed on Joe this year too.

I'd love to see Rice crack the century mark against them again. A win is obviously most important though.

[ravensfan2430]

Look at Mason, TJ, and Boldin's stats last year, especially the last few games. There is no way that a WR group could do worse. This may be addition by subtraction. At least now the opposing defense will know there is one guy on our team that has speed and may need to respect it.

[RoflDogs]

I would love to see what our young Tandem Does this year

*couldn't resist*

[ellicottraven]

[quote name='DylanRobles' timestamp='1312845925' post='741579']
Does anybody have any insight on how well our receiving core will do this year? I understand that Anquan Boldin is definitely gonna be Flacco's main target, but how will Torrey Smith and some of the other less experienced guys step up to replace Derrick Mason?
[/quote]


'PERFECT'!

[Thepurplehaze]

This year we invested in the running game. We attained possibly the best rb and fb on the market and it will certainly pay off.

Indeed, we know Dickson and Boldin are talented receivers. Like many people here, I think with pressure off Flacco to hit 3 big name receivers (including his fall-back Mason), he can finally choose between his certified #1 receiver (Boldin), deep threat (T. Smith), and slot 3rd (Doss?).

Without injury, Boldin gets a 1200+ yard season for sure (yes I am a wizard), and Smith/Dickson should rack up some 500+ yards each as well. BUT as a Baltimore football team, the ground game will still be our bread and butter with a hopefully above-average passing year.

[JoeCool#5]

I think we all fail to consider is the OLine protection. Steelers get alot pressure, its kinda ridiculous. If the line can give Flacco a pocket and keep him up right, the Steelers secondary should get exposed. This years running game will only help Joe, unlike last season. It will allow their secondary to be placed on an island even more as they will have to throw more in the box. OL and backfield will need to step up and pick up the blitz, for we know what happens when Joe has time. (See Housh GW TD - Week 4)