Ravens Receiving Corps

[DylanRobles]

Does anybody have any insight on how well our receiving core will do this year? I understand that Anquan Boldin is definitely gonna be Flacco's main target, but how will Torrey Smith and some of the other less experienced guys step up to replace Derrick Mason?

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

I'm not too optimistic for the 2011 year in terms of the passing game. I do think they will be able to get it done, but I think we will have to rely on Ray, Vonta, and the O line on our way to the super bowl =)

[DylanRobles]

We're also trying to pick up another reliable receiver, so a lot of it probably depends on who that is. Mason is out, Owens is out, and Smith is pretty much out.

[ed.s52]

I see Boldin having a monster year (not just being a homer but I still think he is an elite reciever who just had one mediocre season, similar to Brandon Marshall), I think Lee Evans is a legit #1 reciever who will be a huge playmaker if we do indeed get him and anyone we add should be a pretty darn good vet be it TO, Moss, or even Cotchery (not saying these will be our main target just pointing out possibilities), Torrey should be a great slot reciever and bring some more speed, and Doss has been loking great in camp.

Perfect was a little drastic, but Very Good was not on there which would have been my primary choice.

Oh, and the add of Leach and Ricky will make a huge difference as teams will leave the pass open by going after the run.

[mhead66]

It's fun to speculate, but it's WAY too early to draw any conclusions, from intra-squad scrimmages...

However, I'm inclined to agree, that a 3 WR set with two rookies starting, neither of whom had the benefit of off-season OTA's, isn't ideal.

But, if there [b]IS[/b] anyone left to be signed (like Ricky was today), I'm not sure they will be a better option than Torrey Smith...

[mhead66]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1312847025' post='741605']
I see Boldin having a monster year (not just being a homer but I still think he is an elite reciever who just had one mediocre season, similar to Brandon Marshall), I think Lee Evans is a legit #1 reciever who will be a huge playmaker if we do indeed get him and anyone we add should be a pretty darn good vet be it [size="5"][b]TO, Moss[/b], [/size]or even Cotchery (not saying these will be our main target just pointing out possibilities), Torrey should be a great slot reciever and bring some more speed, and Doss has been loking great in camp.

Perfect was a little drastic, but Very Good was not on there which would have been my primary choice.

Oh, and the add of Leach and Ricky will make a huge difference as teams will leave the pass open by going after the run.
[/quote]
T.O. had ACL surgery - which usually takes a year to recover from - in April... 4 months ago. He is also 37 years old.

Moss is 34, has repeatedly claimed he's retired, and had 28 catches between three teams last year.

There [b]ARE[/b] options out there... but not [b]these[/b] ones.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1312847451' post='741620']
T.O. had ACL surgery - which usually takes a year to recover from - in April... 4 months ago. He is also 37 years old.

Moss is 34, has repeatedly claimed he's retired, and had 28 catches between three teams last year.

There [b]ARE[/b] options out there... but not [b]these[/b] ones.
[/quote]

I'll give you TO, although we really arent sure how healthy he is, although there is a good chance he isnt very healthy.


As for Moss, he wasnt utilized very much last year. He obviously had a down year, but in the right situation he can produce, even if it is just for another season or two. If you watched him vs the Jets last year he took a one way ticket passed Revis Island straight to the Promised Land.


I wasnt going into specifics, I just pointed out some bigger names. Im not saying I expect us to pursue TO, although I would like Moss if he obliged.

[mhead66]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1312847749' post='741624']
I'll give you TO, although we really arent sure how healthy he is, although there is a good chance he isnt very healthy.


As for Moss, he wasnt utilized very much last year. He obviously had a down year, but in the right situation he can produce, even if it is just for another season or two. If you watched him vs the Jets last year he took a one way ticket passed Revis Island straight to the Promised Land.


I wasnt going into specifics, I just pointed out some bigger names. Im not saying I expect us to pursue TO, although I would like Moss if he obliged.
[/quote]
Although Moss is a lock for the HOF, his skills may have diminished a bit.

However, it's his [b]MOTIVATION[/b] I question. If he couldn't get motivated by Bill Belicheck and Jeff Fisher, two of the strongest-willed coaches in the NFL, I don't think he'll patiently yield to a backup role behind Torrey Smith... and I don't think we want Smith sitting while Moss plays.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1312848201' post='741643']
Although Moss is a lock for the HOF, his skills may have diminished a bit.

However, it's his [b]MOTIVATION[/b] I question. If he couldn't get motivated by Bill Belicheck and Jeff Fisher, two of the strongest-willed coaches in the NFL, I don't think he'll patiently yield to a backup role behind Torrey Smith... and I don't think we want Smith sitting while Moss plays.
[/quote]

What, if we brought Moss here it is for the #2 role. Obviously, Torrey would spell him at times as well as commanding the #3 position 9assuming Doss doesnt take it), but why would we bring him in just as depth? We already have depth.

[Ravenseconbeast]

It's over on FA with receivers. There isn't anyone out there anymore. Maybe Ozzie can bring Desean Jackson here after we free up money with Ngata?? Hahaha...i can only dream ...

[xxhighriser]

All the people saying our WR core is bad is basing this off the last couple years. But when you actually think about it, how many teams can even say they have a talent like Anquan Boldin at wide receiver?? We are being very spoiled, Q is gonna get more touches this year to make up for the loss of Mason and the supporting cast will be fine.

[mhead66]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1312848346' post='741647']
What, if we brought Moss here it is for the #2 role. Obviously, Torrey would spell him at times as well as commanding the #3 position 9assuming Doss doesnt take it), but why would we bring him in just as depth? We already have depth.
[/quote]
I'll quote a couple of writers on ESPN, who sum up how most people NOW feel about Randy Moss. He was a great NFL talent, but...

"Randy Moss’ retirement isn’t a big surprise to anyone who saw him up close during the last half of the 2010 season when he was with the Tennessee Titans.

Jeff Fisher and his offensive coordinator Mike Heimerdinger couldn’t rationalize why, but it became clear they thought he was done. Others who saw him work said he had simply lost the high-end speed that made him such a threat. The Titans have talked of the possibility of adding a veteran receiver, but never so much as considered that guy being Moss."

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/25857/moss-retirement-no-surprise-to-titans

"Randy Moss' retirement is surprising only because it took NFL teams this long to tire of his act.

Moss is a 34-year-old receiver whose best days are now behind him. He's a toxic malcontent who can drive coaches and teammates batty. For years, Moss was able to find suitors because his electric talent was impossible to ignore.

Today, he's just another unrealistic veteran with an oversized ego and an inability to understand why nobody wants to fall in love with him.

The reason Moss doesn't like the options available to him after 13 NFL seasons -- which was the explanation his agent, Joel Segal, gave for Moss leaving the game -- is that the demand for his services wasn't that great from the start. There were far too many big-name receivers on the free-agent market and the trading block for Moss to be a hot item.

The ones who signed quickly (such as the New York Jets' Santonio Holmes and the Seattle Seahawks' Sidney Rice) were younger than Moss. The older veterans who found homes more recently (such as the Jets' Plaxico Burress and the New England Patriots' Chad Ochocinco) seem far more willing to follow the company lines laid out for them by their new teams..."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6825249/randy-moss-worn-welcome-nfl-missed


I think Moss is done...

[joemak]

Alot of teams can say they have a reciever as good as Q.But most teams dont have talent like Flacco and Q at QB and WR. We have just have to be sure to give Q ample oppurtunities to make plays on the ball. Hes a beast. And Joes got a beautiful pass that goes for miles.

[Ngata92NT]

I would be thrilled with our receiving corps IF we had just one more solid, experienced #2 receiver. I know we had to phase out Mason eventually but holding on to him one more year would've have hurt our cap situation much at all and I would feel much more comfortable.

WHAT IF BOLDIN IS INJURED? We would be in a terrible position, and Boldin has been injured in the past.

As it stands, I love the potential of Tandon Doss and David Reed in particular. Torrey Smith has potential as well, especially as a vertical presence.

But Doss has incredible hands, he's a good underneath route runner, he's tough as hell and though he's shifty and agile he's actually very large for a receiver.

Reed shares the same toughness and agility, Doss has better hands but Reed knows the system better and is more polished.

Torrey's has good hands but mediocre technique (at least in college). I don't think that he's quite as fast as people believe but he's faster than our other receivers and can provide a vertical threat.

The downside is that while these three are talented, they are not proven at the NFL level. I'm not confident about our receiving corps. IMO we desperately need to add a veteran receiver through a trade or FA, preferably one who can provide a deep threat.

[Ed_Reed20]

I think this year's WR corps will perform better than last year's group.

On a related note, the TEs deserve a bit more attention. They aren't WRs, but both of them can create mismatches. Dickson embarrassed some defenders last season, and I saw Pitta getting separation too. That should continue this year.

[Raven07]

i see the WR core shaping up with Boldin being Flacco's go to guy with Torrey being that Deep threat type guy, for those big chunks of yardage while Doss being a TJ type reciever.... so basically 2 physical recievers grinding out the Y.A.C's with Torrey being the potential deep threat to "blow the top off" a play or defensive scheme. this being the NFL FLacco must go through his reads and make the Smartest decision. Boldin Can be that Deep threat as well as we have seen in the pass the his physical approach to the game and the Ravens mentality has be leaning Boldin (in my mind) as a hook route and/or over the middle i.e Slant route reciever which i also envision Tandon doing.....so the way i see the passing attack would kinda be like " slant slant slant, hook route ...basically calling the plays to maintain possession of the football and move those chains, and then have the deep threat guy attack the outside with slant-ins and fly routes (Torrey AND POSSIBLY Boldin) mixing it up here and there to keep them guessing.

[Ngata92NT]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1312853166' post='741751']
I think this year's WR corps will perform better than last year's group.

On a related note, the TEs deserve a bit more attention. They aren't WRs, but both of them can create mismatches. Dickson embarrassed some defenders last season, and I saw Pitta getting separation too. That should continue this year.
[/quote]

Dickson had that great catch on Dawkins in the Broncos game. No doubt Dickson has incredible physical talent, I'm much more concerned with his blocking than anything else. Pitta has good hands and I could see him making some plays, especially off play-action. Pitta actually has more physical ability than you would guess by looking at him, he put up some great numbers at the combine.

The other day I was imagining a set with Dickson & Boldin split out wide, Rice and Leach in the backfield, and Pitta at TE. The running game would be a huge threat in that formation, because we could move Dickson around before the snap to create some great counter/off-tackle/stretch running plays. But we could also run a sweet play action and have the defense try to contain two huge, physical receivers, Ray slipping out of the backfield, and Pitta running underneath or blocking/releasing on a delay route.

Sadly, I don't think Cam would ever try it.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1312853823' post='741760']
Dickson had that great catch on Dawkins in the Broncos game. No doubt Dickson has incredible physical talent, I'm much more concerned with his blocking than anything else. Pitta has good hands and I could see him making some plays, especially off play-action. Pitta actually has more physical ability than you would guess by looking at him, he put up some great numbers at the combine.

The other day I was imagining a set with Dickson & Boldin split out wide, Rice and Leach in the backfield, and Pitta at TE. The running game would be a huge threat in that formation, because we could move Dickson around before the snap to create some great counter/off-tackle/stretch running plays. But we could also run a sweet play action and have the defense try to contain two huge, physical receivers, Ray slipping out of the backfield, and Pitta running underneath or blocking/releasing on a delay route.

Sadly, I don't think Cam would ever try it.
[/quote]

Dickson owning Dawkins was impressive, but I really liked his TD against the Saints. That might have been one of the more impressive runs after the catch from a Ravens player last season. Like you said though, he needs to improve as a blocker. He added bulk in the off-season, and that can only help.

Agreed regarding Pitta. He's getting valuable reps with Dickson missing practice recently.

I noticed Heap split out wide a number of times last season, and so was Dickson on occasion too. We could see a formation similar to your play.

[Ngata92NT]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1312854210' post='741772']
Dickson owning Dawkins was impressive, but I really liked his TD against the Saints. That might have been one of the more impressive runs after the catch from a Ravens player last season. Like you said though, he needs to improve as a blocker. He added bulk in the off-season, and that can only help.

Agreed regarding Pitta. He's getting valuable reps with Dickson missing practice recently.

I noticed Heap split out wide a number of times last season, and so was Dickson on occasion too. We could see a formation similar to your play.
[/quote]

I had forgotten about that one, I was seriously jumping up and down to see our rookie tight end running people over like that. Really impressive athleticism. If Dickson's blocking improves he will become that much more deadly running those delay routes.

One thing that I don't hear people talking about is how horrible our receivers were after the catch last year. Q is the only one who could break a tackle with any consistency and he lacks the speed to break away for a long TD. Almost as important as having a deep threat, we need receivers who can make people miss and turn a short gain into a long gain.

I'm very confident that once our young receivers get the ball in their hands they will make more plays than Mason or Housh did last season. I'm just worried that without experience they may struggle getting the passes thrown to them at all. If you can't diagnose the coverage, if you can't get separation from the corner, if you can't find the holes in the zone, it doesn't matter how good you are. You won't get the ball.

That kind of awareness takes time to develop, and we're facing Pittsburgh week one. I say we need to get a veteran WR to boost our chances. If the youngsters can play, they will take his job as the season progresses.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1312853823' post='741760']
Dickson had that great catch on Dawkins in the Broncos game. No doubt Dickson has incredible physical talent, I'm much more concerned with his blocking than anything else. Pitta has good hands and I could see him making some plays, especially off play-action. Pitta actually has more physical ability than you would guess by looking at him, he put up some great numbers at the combine.

[b]The other day I was imagining a set with Dickson & Boldin split out wide, Rice and Leach in the backfield, and Pitta at TE. The running game would be a huge threat in that formation, because we could move Dickson around before the snap to create some great counter/off-tackle/stretch running plays. But we could also run a sweet play action and have the defense try to contain two huge, physical receivers, Ray slipping out of the backfield, and Pitta running underneath or blocking/releasing on a delay route.

Sadly, I don't think Cam would ever try it.[/b]
[/quote]

We actually used that same formation a lot last year. It was just Heap split out wide and Dickson at the TE. Rice and McClain in the backfield.

[Ngata92NT]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1312854863' post='741789']
We actually used that same formation a lot last year. It was just Heap split out wide and Dickson at the TE. Rice and McClain in the backfield.
[/quote]

I do remember seeing Heap split out wide a couple times. Somewhat baffling to me that they wouldn't put Dickson out wide and keep Heap at TE.

Anyway, I think that formation could be deadly. We should name it... "The Pulverizer". haha

[Ravensfan23]

I really wouldn't worry about Dickson's blocking too much. Todd Heap didn't become a reliable run blocker until about 2006. Blocking was always Heap's weak point and it never slowed him down a bit.

Dickson will just have to work hard like his mentor did to become a better blocker. He actually got better with more and more playing time. So i think he'll be fine.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1312854732' post='741785']
I had forgotten about that one, I was seriously jumping up and down to see our rookie tight end running people over like that. Really impressive athleticism. If Dickson's blocking improves he will become that much more deadly running those delay routes.

One thing that I don't hear people talking about is how horrible our receivers were after the catch last year. Q is the only one who could break a tackle with any consistency and he lacks the speed to break away for a long TD. Almost as important as having a deep threat, we need receivers who can make people miss and turn a short gain into a long gain.

I'm very confident that once our young receivers get the ball in their hands they will make more plays than Mason or Housh did last season. I'm just worried that without experience they may struggle getting the passes thrown to them at all. If you can't diagnose the coverage, if you can't get separation from the corner, if you can't find the holes in the zone, it doesn't matter how good you are. You won't get the ball.

That kind of awareness takes time to develop, and we're facing Pittsburgh week one. I say we need to get a veteran WR to boost our chances. If the youngsters can play, they will take his job as the season progresses.
[/quote]

You're right about those delayed routes.

[url="http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2011/03/ravens_wrs_rank_last_in_division_in_yards_after_catch.html"]This article[/url] really opened my eyes to how bad were the Ravens were in terms of yards after the catch last season. [url="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ys-intangibles012711"]This one[/url] was even more damning for Mason.

I've gone back and forth on how I feel about a veteran WR being brought in. I'm not against one being brought in, but I just hope, even early on, Torrey and Tandon see a fair amount of targets.

[berad]

Thinking about it, we have such a battle going on at WR...

-A. Boldin
-T. Smith
-T. Doss
-J. Hardy
-B. Jones
-M. Smith
-J. Harper
-L. Williams
-D. Reed

And those are just my realistic candidates. Marcus Smith and Harper have been on this team a while but still have to show they can be the player we'd hoped they'd be. I really can't wait until Thursday, I just hope the QBs give them good opportunities.

[George70]

At the very least, I will say that the receiver corps will be good, and I say this partly due to concern for the receiving unit after the release of some of them due to salary concerns, but also due to the pre-season games being the way to determine who makes the cut for the season.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1312857053' post='741843']
Thinking about it, we have such a battle going on at WR...

-A. Boldin
-T. Smith
-T. Doss
-J. Hardy
-B. Jones
-M. Smith
-J. Harper
-L. Williams
-D. Reed

And those are just my realistic candidates. Marcus Smith and Harper have been on this team a while but still have to show they can be the player we'd hoped they'd be. [b]I really can't wait until Thursday, I just hope the QBs give them good opportunities[/b].[/quote]

I hope so too. What has me worried for Thursday night is the team's backup o-line unit. Tyrod could see pressure every time he drops back.

[PuRock]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1312857053' post='741843']
Thinking about it, we have such a battle going on at WR...

-A. Boldin
[b]-T. Smith
-T. Doss
-J. Hardy
-B. Jones
-M. Smith
-J. Harper
-L. Williams
-D. Reed[/b]

And those are just my realistic candidates. Marcus Smith and Harper have been on this team a while but still have to show they can be the player we'd hoped they'd be. I really can't wait until Thursday, I just hope the QBs give them good opportunities.
[/quote]

Realistically one of those guys has to break through. It's statistically in our favor, right?

[PuRock]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1312857361' post='741852']
I hope so too. What has me worried for Thursday night is the team's backup o-line unit. Tyrod could see pressure every time he drops back.
[/quote]

If I think our starting O-Line could stumble a bit, I don't even want to think about the second team. Tyrod is going to have a very hard time trying to impress. He just needs to stay cool and not force throws.

[berad]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1312857361' post='741852']
I hope so too. What has me worried for Thursday night is the team's backup o-line unit. Tyrod could see pressure every time he drops back.
[/quote]

Yeah, it's a problem because it's harder to evaluate individual players in a team sport with such a small sample size, especially if another part of that team is struggling.

There'll be sloppy football, I'm absolutely sure, but I'm hoping there's some light that comes out of it.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1312857053' post='741843']
Thinking about it, we have such a battle going on at WR...

-A. Boldin
-T. Smith
-T. Doss
-J. Hardy
-B. Jones
-M. Smith
-J. Harper
-L. Williams
-D. Reed

And those are just my realistic candidates. Marcus Smith and Harper have been on this team a while but still have to show they can be the player we'd hoped they'd be. I really can't wait until Thursday, [b]I just hope the QBs give them good opportunities.[/b]
[/quote]

I wouldn't worry about Joe, I think he's been locked in with these young guys.

Now once Tyrod get into the games, things can get a bit crazy. I'm not sure how the 2nd string oline will hold up, so Tyrod might be using his feet a lot more.