And You Call Yourself A Fan?

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1312684203' post='739204']
1) Yes our #2 RB is up in the air, but anyone can run behind Leach. You do know we won the Super Bowl with a rookie RB, right?

2) Our WRs may be young, but when it's late in the season you'll see how it's a welcome change from 3 slow, old receivers. I love Mason and Housh but they aren't built for the postseason at that age.

3) TE shouldn't be much of a problem because thanks to an improved O-line, we won't need Heap to block all the time. If anything our TE's should be freed up relative to 2010.

This is what I'm talking about. We've gone so long without using rookies that much that we've forgotten that he can still produce.
[/quote]

I have no problem using rookies. I take issue when you've forced yourself to rely on them in most positions. We are one injury away at RB, WR, TE, C, OL from having to rely on rookies. That is too much.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1312684441' post='739210']
Yep, just Rice, who is a top 5 RB. [b]Missed the point here. The man is not built for more than 25 carries a game or so, especially in the AFCN. Was not in any way saying he wasn't a good RB. [/b]

Oh and just saying, but every reciever ever is untested at some point. There has never been a reciever in the History of the NFL that has been tested before he got in, unless you count AFL as experience. [b]Of course everyone is untested at some point. I am not against using any of them. I am against relying on so many of them.
[/b]
Rookies can be good. Just because the are rookies doesnt mean they cant start. On the Super Bowl squad, we had 6 rookie starters. If Doss, Reid, Torrey, and Jimmy all started, we wouldnt even have that many. [b]Yes they can be good. Or they can be very very bad. It is an unknown which was my point. Some keep saying how we've improved our team (using rookies as their argument) and you just cannot say that at this point in time. [/b]


I do agree with one point you have been asserting though, we do have holes. WR is not our strongest position, RT and OL depth could be a problem, and CB although solid doesnt have any great players in it, but the other fact you seem to be ignoring along with a lot of other fans is this, even though we have a couple holes SO DOES EVERY TEAM IN THE NFL. The only team that arguably does is the packers, but I would still call RB a weakness for them.
[/quote]

[b]All teams have holes, true. They usually do not have quite so many as we seem to have, again, at this point in time. Not saying it couldn't all go very well. We do have an easier schedule with the NFC West but with the Steelers at Week 1, it could also not go so well. Mostly was defending those who are rather nervous with the roster we currently have. I think our opponent on Week 1 has a lot to do with that as well. [/b]

[Militant X 1]

i have been saying that the Ravens need to get younger and faster at various positions

i have been saying that the rookies should get their time to shine

soo, the original poster said nothing new to me. but i sure did like it!

~Mili

[ed.s52]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1312685101' post='739227']
[b]All teams have holes, true. They usually do not have quite so many as we seem to have, again, at this point in time. Not saying it couldn't all go very well. We do have an easier schedule with the NFC West but with the Steelers at Week 1, it could also not go so well. Mostly was defending those who are rather nervous with the roster we currently have. I think our opponent on Week 1 has a lot to do with that as well. [/b]
[/quote]


Honestly, you could argue we dont have any holes based on the performance of Smith, Reid, Smith, and Doss. If these 4 perform well, we really do not have any holes. Thats not mentioning, the offseason isnt over.

As I said in another thread, we may have already worked out a trade, and just be waiting on the Ngata deal to get signed so there is enough cap room. So basically, depending on rookie play (or Oniel Cousins who does have starting experience for RT) we could really have pretty much no holes.

[ellicottraven]

I think you make very valid points and I agree with most of what you say. However, here is a paragraph that confused me a bit...

"Of course there's our ace-in-the hole - special teams. We still have the best kickoff kicker in Billy Cundiff. Now that the marker is moved to the 30, this year will not be the touchback fest that 2010 was. Instead, Billy will be busy pinning teams inside the 10. ."


I thought the marker was moved to 35 from 30 and this would result in more touchbacks with less ability for kick returners to make big gains. Therefore they would be more inclined to kneel after the catch. This would really alter Billy's chances of pinning them inside their 10 yd line right?

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

Great post......I'm with you 100%

[RavensAllTheWay]

If you think [i]these[/i] freakouts are bad, and some are, wait until preseason starts.....

[TheRavenouseD2008]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1312693904' post='739386']
I think you make very valid points and I agree with most of what you say. However, here is a paragraph that confused me a bit...

"Of course there's our ace-in-the hole - special teams. We still have the best kickoff kicker in Billy Cundiff. Now that the marker is moved to the 30, this year will not be the touchback fest that 2010 was. Instead, Billy will be busy pinning teams inside the 10. ."


I thought the marker was moved to 35 from 30 and this would result in more touchbacks with less ability for kick returners to make big gains. Therefore they would be more inclined to kneel after the catch. This would really alter Billy's chances of pinning them inside their 10 yd line right?
[/quote]

you are correct it was moved to the 35 to increased TB to reduce injury

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

@ hawkprey. Great post all around! Your timing was perfect! What with all the rumors, panicing, and all out bickering, a call to unity was defenately needed. Thanks for reminding us all we are Raven fans, even if we disagree on some issues.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

Good post. I think the whole "OMG we didn't sign Asomugha, Osi, Floyd..." attitude is stupid. I also think that melvinmelon123 hit the nail on the head when he stressed the point that activity in Free Agency isn't the be all and end all in the NFL. The Redskins are often one of the most active teams in Free Agency, but does it do them any good? The Steelers don't go overboard with signing Free Agents, but does that prevent them from being a good team?

Of course I have concerns about one or two positions, but that's just natural. The preseason games are used partly to solve these issues.

It's not time to hit the panic button people.

[Moderator 3]

Don't forget that teams still have to cut from 90 to 53. Many good players will be released as teams decide that their younger (cheaper) guys can get the job done. That's when Ozzie will scoop someone up, just like last year.

[blaqreign]

[quote name='sozo91' timestamp='1312680263' post='739098']
First time poster here.

The opening post nailed the reality of the situation of the Baltimore Ravens.

I think the underlying criticism in the recent offseason moves, or lack thereof, is partly due to the complacency in the Ravens' success in the past few years. We have done so well that any perception of not shifting the roster to select free agent studs is tantamount to failure. The fact still remains though that we are the one of the scariest and crazily stacked teams in the league.

While many fans are espousing a Super Bowl or bust mentality in the front office moves (i.e. if we don't sign Mase, we're not even out of the Wild Card), I think the past few years underscore the importance of a quarterback-receiver battery. Last year, I along with many others were tantalized with the prospect of Housh, Boldin, and Stallworth forming an impressive wide receiver line. But what happened? The offense never clicked, and Flacco ended up referring to Mason as his most reliable receiver.

While we still have a few concerns to face, the pessimism and negativity surrounding this team is too much.
[/quote]


The Negativity is overwhelming. Sitting in the stadium yesterday and you've got fans calling torrey and tandon bums already.Booing harbaugh as he was interviewing and I'm thinking to myself, You people can't possibly call yourselves fans. They must have been there for the free towels. I liked what I saw and i stand behind my team. Hell...some of the people didn't even know who the players were.

The vets are gone....get over it. Last season you wanted their heads on a stick after dropped balls and missed opportunities. I just don't get it.

[Runnin Raven]

[quote name='sozo91' timestamp='1312680263' post='739098']
First time poster here.

The opening post nailed the reality of the situation of the Baltimore Ravens.

I think the underlying criticism in the recent offseason moves, or lack thereof, is partly due to the complacency in the Ravens' success in the past few years. We have done so well that any perception of not shifting the roster to select free agent studs is tantamount to failure. The fact still remains though that we are the one of the scariest and crazily stacked teams in the league.

While many fans are espousing a Super Bowl or bust mentality in the front office moves (i.e. if we don't sign Mase, we're not even out of the Wild Card), I think the past few years underscore the importance of a quarterback-receiver battery. Last year, I along with many others were tantalized with the prospect of Housh, Boldin, and Stallworth forming an impressive wide receiver line. But what happened? The offense never clicked, and Flacco ended up referring to Mason as his most reliable receiver.

While we still have a few concerns to face, the pessimism and negativity surrounding this team is too much.
[/quote]
Great first post. Great post period really. I look forward to watching the young guys this year.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1312693904' post='739386']
I think you make very valid points and I agree with most of what you say. However, here is a paragraph that confused me a bit...

"Of course there's our ace-in-the hole - special teams. We still have the best kickoff kicker in Billy Cundiff. Now that the marker is moved to the 30, this year will not be the touchback fest that 2010 was. Instead, Billy will be busy pinning teams inside the 10. ."


I thought the marker was moved to 35 from 30 and this would result in more touchbacks with less ability for kick returners to make big gains. Therefore they would be more inclined to kneel after the catch. This would really alter Billy's chances of pinning them inside their 10 yd line right?
[/quote]

Towards the end of the year, Harbaugh had Billy try out more high arching kicks rather than long touchbacks. With the ball moved to the 35, Billy can work on hitting higher kicks that take longer to come down, meaning our ST guys can wrap their player up before he gets a chance to move. Billy is one of the few kickers with the leg to pull this off. Other kickers are better off just booting it to the endzone.

[ellicottraven]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1312730143' post='739593']
Towards the end of the year, Harbaugh had Billy try out more high arching kicks rather than long touchbacks. With the ball moved to the 35, Billy can work on hitting higher kicks that take longer to come down, meaning our ST guys can wrap their player up before he gets a chance to move. Billy is one of the few kickers with the leg to pull this off. Other kickers are better off just booting it to the endzone.
[/quote]


Okay got it...

[The Raven]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1312730143' post='739593']
Towards the end of the year, Harbaugh had Billy try out more high arching kicks rather than long touchbacks. With the ball moved to the 35, Billy can work on hitting higher kicks that take longer to come down, meaning our ST guys can wrap their player up before he gets a chance to move. Billy is one of the few kickers with the leg to pull this off. Other kickers are better off just booting it to the endzone.
[/quote]

It's gonna be fun to see Billy pin guys at the 10 on a kickoff! He's got the leg to do it, and we got the ST to do it.

[jaege]

Webster's defines fan as;

1 : an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator

2 : an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit) <science-fiction fans


I would venture to guess that the egg heads at Websters are a lot better versed on how "fan" should be defined than the OP or his admiring follow-up posters. By those definitions, the complainers sounded fairly enthusiastic (in a negative way perhaps, but still enthusiastic) so I guess they are pretty hardcore fans. Unless someone here can sight a superior source for the definition...

Although, the booing thing is overboard. I suspect they were closet Sqeeler's fans.

[Ravens Beast]

I just don't dig our o0line problems. Especially at center. That's all.

[RL52]

I think the thing is we put to much trust in Ozzie, so when he screws up on some free agency moves, it gets blown out of proportion. He's human, he makes mistakes. And there are also other great GM's in the league. In my opinion the reason he gets so much love, which he deserves is he drafts so well. Look at our best players in history. Ray Lewis:Drafted. Jon Ogden:Drafted. Ed Reed:Drafted. Jamal Lewis:Drafted. We have never made a great deal in free agency, good ones but not great. We'll be fine, and hopefully our draft classes of recent past will really step up this year to prove even more that Ozzie is the best drafter in the league.

[The Raven]

I don't think you can say Ozzie has slipped as a drafter at all. Imo, he's drafted a ton of talent, but the coaching staff has FAILED in playing those young talented players. Even after Dickson proved to be a more than competent TE, he rarely saw the field, if at all, afterwards. David Reed got no snaps on offense. Cody should have received more snaps. Kruger should not have been moved, and in his rookie year, he should have seen the field more. He was dang near unblockable in the packers game that year. He had a rediculous motor. I can't say that Ozzie has slipped.

We're in a much better situation than everyone thinks. Sure, we're a little thin at WR, but we'll make do. Ozzie won't leave Flacco to get picked on again. Sure, the odds are stacked against out WRs, but with an improved running game, play action will have a much greater effect, which will also enhance the effect of our speedy young guys. We're in good shape, have faith. I don't wanna read anymore complaining til after thursday! Go Ravens!

[display name]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1312673560' post='738915']
[size="4"]The offseason. No, it hasn't been perfect. No, it hasn't been pretty. But it's [i]us[/i].[/size]

Losing some of our veterans has been hard on many fans, but that's no reason to lose your love for this team. There's been a lot of fans down on this team for not making a splash in the FA market, for not re-signing a lot of players or making them walk.

But the 2011 Ravens are far and away a better team then last year. We've gotten so used to relying on veterans that we've forgotten you can win with youth. Maybe the receivers are younger, but that's not a bad thing. Maybe the defense is younger, but that's not a bad thing either. The Ravens won the Super Bowl with 2 rookie starters and 6 more starters with less than 3 years experience. The 2011 Ravens can do the same.


[color="#8B0000"]It all starts with the O-line. With Yanda back in his best position next to Birk, and an improved Cousins battling out with physical freak Jah Reid, it looks like we'll finally be able to give Flacco some time. Oher looks more comfortable than last year at LT, and Grubbs has had time to heal from the injury he played through most of last year.

Or WR corp doesn't have the veteran experience that 2010's did, but they have the speed and the explosiveness. Do you want another veteran group that slows down come playoff time and can't get separation? Or do you want Torrey Smith blowing the top off of defenses and our speedy slot guys slicing up defenses underneath? Don't you finally want speed at TE?

The backfield has Ray Rice yet again, this time with Leach to pave the way - the way he did for league-leading Arian Foster. Yes, it looks like the Ravens finally have a running game to rely on again.[/color]

[color="#0000FF"]On the defensive side, Pagano is already working to restore the D to it's former glory, rather than one that can't close out games. Look for more sacks, more fumbles, and more rattling of Roethlisberger than you can remember.

The D-line is going to be fast. An experimental Ngata is leaner and more explosive this year, perhaps looking to transition to safety once and for all . Mount Cody is a welcome fountain of youth to the older, slower line we're used to. Not only is Cody stronger and in better shape, his rookie mistakes are gone! Now they will be sophomore mistakes.

JJ had an injury-ridden down year in 2010. But thanks in part to a monkey of a commissioner and his pea-brained nemesis, Jarret Johnson has had plenty of time to recover and is looking more like 2009's JJ that led the team in sacks. He also has Sergio Kindle to spell him no 3rd downs and get that all-important QB pressure. Gooden is making a run at ILB next to Ray with his impressive speed and improved pass rush. And Sizzle is Sizzle, and that's all we need him to be.

Our DBs are a better group as well. The loss of Dawan will be greeted with the docking of the SS Tom Zibby, whose coverage skills we didn't have with Landry. Foxworth rejoins the CB group now riddled with talent: 1st rounder and future shut-down Jimmy Smith, a finally healed Lardarius Webb, a Cary Williams who's been picking off everybody in training camp, and the great underrated Chris Carr. Did I mention Ed Reed is finally healthy? [/color]

Of course there's our ace-in-the hole - special teams. We still have the best kickoff kicker in Billy Cundiff. Now that the marker is moved to the 30, this year will not be the touchback fest that 2010 was. Instead, Billy will be busy pinning teams inside the 10. Remember last year when we struggled to find a returner? Well, we came out having struck gold. David Reed not only won the job, he finished 1st in the AFC in yards per return.


What other team would you root for?
[/quote]
Your topic title has nothing to do with your actual post.

[stormie]

I personally think the lack of a "REAL" off season with enough OTA's and regular training has most fans on edge! Changes, moves and lack of both have been a little unsettling. But I think the lockout messed up or just plain made this season very strange so far. I really don't know what to expect.

That said, the Ravens always have been and always will be #1 to me!

[rlh445]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1312682542' post='739170']
I think most fans understand the reality of the salary cap. If we were not making any immediate moves in FA however, I don't know why we could not have asked Heap and Mason to restructure prior to cutting them. IMO if either or both had agreed to that scenario we'd be a better team with them still around.
[/quote]

This is what I would have posted had you not posted it first. Totally agree. I'm all in favor of looking at the glass half full, but let's not go overboard by comparing this team to the team we won the Super Bowl with. The rookies we had on that team were very much carried by the veterans we had on that team, just sayin'.