Who's Left?

[PuRock]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1312581836' post='737384']
And what's wrong with that? People are complaining as if the production Mason, Heap, Gregg and McGahee put up in 2010 can't be equaled or exceeded by young players.
[/quote]

I just don't understand why people can't grasp that we are in a class of teams that seeks to improve primarily through the draft. Sure we've added guys through free agency before. But our team has a stockpile of young guys who's time is now. These are the guys they've drafted and these are the guys they want to ultimately play.

If anybody thinks that the season is a wash before we've even played our first game, then god bless. Its not even worth arguing.

[cdog2]

I am all for playing guys we drafted at some point but to just say we are going to count on them with out any vet Wr besides Q is ridiculous.It is not like we have early 1st round guys and even then 1/2 of them will be a bust.We have a late 2nd round guy and a late 4th round guy and David reed was what a 5th rounder and is pretty much a rookie because he never caught a pass in the NFL.What do you think the chances of them being a bust are? What if they are bust?It is unrealistic to think we can go trough the season with what we have at least not if we want to win much.And now we waited to long and no one else is available that is worth a crap. Mason I ante to proud to beg! Hopefully Ozzie isn't either!

[flynismo]

[quote name='PurpleandBlackBlood' timestamp='1312572870' post='736953']<br />true but im not saying go sign 20 guys.. i just want like one or two<br />[/quote]


you got your one or two when we brought in Leach.

You know what, I question some of what Ozzie does too. But one thing I NEVER question about him, is how he handles our finances.

I dont have "personell" envy of all these teams signing guys. Why? Because they NEED to make those signings if they want to have a shot at going toe to toe with the team Ozzie has already assembled. The grass is not always greener...

[jus'_crAzy]

[quote name='cdog2' timestamp='1312598069' post='737797']
I am all for playing guys we drafted at some point but to just say we are going to count on them with out any vet Wr besides Q is ridiculous.It is not like we have early 1st round guys and even then 1/2 of them will be a bust.We have a late 2nd round guy and a late 4th round guy and David reed was what a 5th rounder and is pretty much a rookie because he never caught a pass in the NFL.What do you think the chances of them being a bust are? [b]What if they are bust?[/b] It is unrealistic to think we can go trough the season with what we have at least not if we want to win much.And now we waited to long and no one else is available that is worth a crap. Mason I ante to proud to beg! Hopefully Ozzie isn't either!
[/quote]
Well, a sure fire way of CREATING a bust is to never let them see the field... which is kinda what you're saying you want. From what we're heard thus far, Torrey and Doss are starting to impress. That SHOULD make you feel a wee-bit more confident in their ability to contribute during the regular season, but it sounds like you're immediately writing them off.

I'm not telling you to "count on them" but at least give them the opportunity to develop into someone you CAN count on, instead of constantly looking outside the organization for answers.

[D-Rey]

[quote name='cdog2' timestamp='1312598069' post='737797']
I am all for playing guys we drafted at some point but to just say we are going to count on them with out any vet Wr besides Q is ridiculous.It is not like we have early 1st round guys and even then 1/2 of them will be a bust.We have a late 2nd round guy and a late 4th round guy and David reed was what a 5th rounder and is pretty much a rookie because he never caught a pass in the NFL.What do you think the chances of them being a bust are? What if they are bust?It is unrealistic to think we can go trough the season with what we have at least not if we want to win much.And now we waited to long and no one else is available that is worth a crap. Mason I ante to proud to beg! Hopefully Ozzie isn't either!
[/quote]
Where they are drafted doesn't matter whats so ever. What matters is their skills and drive to succeed. Both Smith and Doss have those. The skies the limit for both of them. Heck, if these kids reach their full potential they could be the best WRs in the draft. All I'm saying is it doesnt matter where they were drafted, just their drive to succeed. Remember Brady was a late round draft pick and plays one of the hardest positions in the league, how did that turn out

[scrock]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1312596624' post='737778']
[b]I just don't understand why people can't grasp that we are in a class of teams that seeks to improve primarily through the draft. [/b]Sure we've added guys through free agency before. But our team has a stockpile of young guys who's time is now. These are the guys they've drafted and these are the guys they want to ultimately play.

If anybody thinks that the season is a wash before we've even played our first game, then god bless. Its not even worth arguing.
[/quote]

THIS

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='cdog2' timestamp='1312598069' post='737797']
I am all for playing guys we drafted at some point but to just say we are going to count on them with out any vet Wr besides Q is ridiculous.It is not like we have early 1st round guys and even then 1/2 of them will be a bust.We have a late 2nd round guy and a late 4th round guy and David reed was what a 5th rounder and is pretty much a rookie because he never caught a pass in the NFL.What do you think the chances of them being a bust are? What if they are bust?It is unrealistic to think we can go trough the season with what we have at least not if we want to win much.And now we waited to long and no one else is available that is worth a crap. Mason I ante to proud to beg! Hopefully Ozzie isn't either!
[/quote]

In 2006 the Ravens went 13-3 with with a 2nd year(on the team)vet in Mason, a 2nd year player in Clayton and a rookie in Dwill.

So it's not impossible for this team to have success with the young guys. Is it ideal? No, but not impossible either.

I also don't think the Ravens waited too long for anything. Mason has always been in our plans, but we would have liked to upgrade the vertical part of our offense with Floyd. However because we were interested in Floyd doesn't mean we were gonna overpaid him.

Right now Mason is still very much an option, and I'm sure Ozzie has played this scenario out many times.

We don't have Harbs saying publicly that he's still texting Housh, or Gaither, or any other former players still out there. But he's texting Mason. Could be just happenstance, but I'm willing to bet that the Ravens always had plans of bringing back Mason, unless they signed what they felt was an upgrade.

I think Mason will sign probably sometime tonite or early morning and it'll be announced at the open practice.

[Whitty Hutton]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1312600454' post='737843']
[b]In 2006 the Ravens went 13-3 with with a 2nd year(on the team)vet in Mason, a 2nd year player in Clayton and a rookie in Dwill. [/b]

So it's not impossible for this team to have success with the young guys. Is it ideal? No, but not impossible either.

I also don't think the Ravens waited too long for anything. Mason has always been in our plans, but we would have liked to upgrade the vertical part of our offense with Floyd. However because we were interested in Floyd doesn't mean we were gonna overpaid him.

Right now Mason is still very much an option, and I'm sure Ozzie has played this scenario out many times.

We don't have Harbs saying publicly that he's still texting Housh, or Gaither, or any other former players still out there. But he's texting Mason. Could be just happenstance, but I'm willing to bet that the Ravens always had plans of bringing back Mason, unless they signed what they felt was an upgrade.

I think Mason will sign probably sometime tonite or early morning and it'll be announced at the open practice.
[/quote]

That team also had the 2nd best defense in franchise history. I don't see this year's Ravens being close to that. When it mattered the most that offense produced 6 points....

[Alexir]

[quote name='PurpleandBlackBlood' timestamp='1312572327' post='736910']
and dont try to tell me yanda being signed was the biggest thing ever.. it isnt.. i really feel like he played TERRIBLY last year
[/quote]

He was rated as a top ten guard last season....

We got Bernard Pollard and Vonta Leach. Art Jones looks like he is doing big things this year in his sophomore campaign.

What Corners and Pass Rushers did you want us to get?

[PurpleandBlackBlood]

uhh anyone??

[Alexir]

[quote name='PurpleandBlackBlood' timestamp='1312606469' post='737898']
uhh anyone??
[/quote]

Like who? What free agent pass rushers were out there? No elite ones thats for sure and our GM was talking to the Giants about acquiring Osi. It's not his fault they backed out of talks. Nnamdi Asomugha is a little overrated for the money and Jimmy Smith will be shadowing the number 1 receiver of every team.

If you wanna see a team full of high profile players, go watch the Yankees. We won't miss you around here....

[PurpleandBlackBlood]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1312607863' post='737915']
Like who? What free agent pass rushers were out there? No elite ones thats for sure and our GM was talking to the Giants about acquiring Osi. It's not his fault they backed out of talks. Nnamdi Asomugha is a little overrated for the money and Jimmy Smith will be shadowing the number 1 receiver of every team.

If you wanna see a team full of high profile players, go watch the Yankees. We won't miss you around here....
[/quote]
i wasnt saying that. i am simply try to say that we havnt gotten better at all this offseason. FB is a dieing position and pollard is a good add but we didnt really need more depth at SS. We have not improved or filled any holes we start the offseason with.. we still need a pass rush (didnt even try to get babin) need one more proven CB (via trade would work too... asante?) and haloti ngata being resigned should have been the first thing done. before releasing ANYONE. then we would know how much cap room we really have.

its good to be known that fans care about one another.. i really feel the love. thanks man

[Alexir]

[quote name='PurpleandBlackBlood' timestamp='1312608289' post='737921']
i wasnt saying that. i am simply try to say that we havnt gotten better at all this offseason. FB is a dieing position and pollard is a good add but we didnt really need more depth at SS. We have not improved or filled any holes we start the offseason with.. we still need a pass rush (didnt even try to get babin) need one more proven CB (via trade would work too... asante?) and haloti ngata being resigned should have been the first thing done. before releasing ANYONE. then we would know how much cap room we really have.

its good to be known that fans care about one another.. i really feel the love. thanks man
[/quote]

How is FB a dying position? Pollard will be a starter, he is much more talented than Zibby or Ruki.

Babin? Guy finally has a break out year in his 7th year in the NFL and you wanna give him guaranteed money? Asante wasn't ever a free agent and you don't know if the Eagles even took calls for him or not.

Ngata will get a long term deal by the time the season starts.

And one other thing, the fans around here are usually nice to one another but when you start trashing the team and one of the best GMs in the league , you are painting a target on your back for criticism.

[BloodRaven]

Leonard Davis would have been a nice pickup for the run game.

[flynismo]

[quote name='PurpleandBlackBlood' timestamp='1312608289' post='737921']
i wasnt saying that. i am simply try to say that we havnt gotten better at all this offseason. FB is a dieing position and pollard is a good add but we didnt really need more depth at SS. We have not improved or filled any holes we start the offseason with.. we still need a pass rush (didnt even try to get babin) need one more proven CB (via trade would work too... asante?) and haloti ngata being resigned should have been the first thing done. before releasing ANYONE. then we would know how much cap room we really have.
[/quote]

1. We dont need any more CB after resigning Carr.
2. Try telling Arian Foster that FB is a dieing position. I think in one game, HOU played an entire half last season where they did not pass a single time. They just ran the ball behind Leach.
3. Replacing Landry was a cost cutting move, and an upgrade at the same time.
4. I think it became obvious since the draft that the FO knows Kindle will be playing, and playing well this season. The staff's comments since then has only reaffirmed that.
5. Signing massive contracts like Ngata's take serious time. I'm amazed that it is expected to be finished before the season starts; I fully expected it not to get done until next offseason

[PurpleandBlackBlood]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1312609762' post='737944']
1. We dont need any more CB after resigning Carr.
2. Try telling Arian Foster that FB is a dieing position. I think in one game, HOU played an entire half last season where they did not pass a single time. They just ran the ball behind Leach.
3. Replacing Landry was a cost cutting move, and an upgrade at the same time.
4. I think it became obvious since the draft that the FO knows Kindle will be playing, and playing well this season. The staff's comments since then has only reaffirmed that.
5. Signing massive contracts like Ngata's take serious time. I'm amazed that it is expected to be finished before the season starts; I fully expected it not to get done until next offseason
[/quote]
houston ran the ball with a single back set like 75% more than a set with leach in im just saying.. not discounting him but teams are starting to realize that if you just put 3 receivers out wide with a singleback you can spread out the defense and wont need a FB.. thats why its a dieing position.. you dont need it as much as you do at other places.. and ok we dont know if the eages were taking calls but we could have at least tried..and who do we have thats a proven above average CB.. foxworth, MAYBE, carr is average and webb is good and will get better but he isnt a starter yet. and dont say jimmy.. i am very excited about him and i hope he is our revis, but we cant go into the season just on hope that rookies will do anything.. there is no solidity..And ok so signing ngata takes a while.. so what it should have happened first. BEFORE yanda. we would have had a better grip on the cap..

i just think you guys arnt looking at the negatives enough..

[BloodRaven]

A fullback in the traditional lead blocking sense is a dying breed, but more because the position itself is evolving as offenses become more arial. Fullbacks exist but not how they used to, someone like Leach is rarer than owls teeth, not even Vickers or Polite can hold his jockstrap.

[PurpleandBlackBlood]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1312610416' post='737952']
A fullback in the traditional lead blocking sense is a dying breed, but more because the position itself is evolving as offenses become more arial. Fullbacks exist but not how they used to, someone like Leach is rarer than owls teeth, not even Vickers or Polite can hold his jockstrap.
[/quote]
this is exactly what i mean. and ok i see what your saying about vonta. and im VERY glad we have him. he practices like a raven and will be great for us.. but thats all i was saying about the fb issue

[flynismo]

[quote name='PurpleandBlackBlood' timestamp='1312610161' post='737949']
i just think you guys arnt looking at the negatives enough..
[/quote]

Of course we do. At least I do anyway. But I just don't see how a #2 WR will make or break this offense. Especially when it is a very realistic possibility that it isn't even going to be an issue anyway. It may even turn out to be an asset.

As far as the pass rush, I'd like to see us make an upgrade at DE. I think that is the only hole left we need to plug as far as the rush is concerned. But supposedly, Art Jones is tearing it up. Considering that he was a projected 1st rounder, that wouldn't surprise me.
And I hear that Kruger is playing just as well. So, we may not even need to make any moves there; we'll have to wait and see.

Look, we obviously have an enormous amount of young talent on this team -- Jones, Kruger, Torrey, Doss, Reed, Reid, Kindle, Jimmy, Cody. It would defy logic if at least some of them did not play up to expectations. There is far too much talent there for all of them to just suck. And I trust our staff to figure out who those studs are in time for our meeting against PIT.

[Tyler]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1312608881' post='737929']
Leonard Davis would have been a nice pickup for the run game.
[/quote]

So we could start him over our Pro Bowl Left Guard in Grubbs? Or Start him over the Guard we just dumped a bunch of money on? Now if you're talking about depth purposes, Sure.

[AZravensfan]

[quote name='jimmysmith3' timestamp='1312591371' post='737648']
I really think we should take a look at Adam "Pacman" Jones for this season if one of our Corners goes down. He would be a great addition to the Ravens.
[/quote]

Joke post? I would absolutely be the one fan raging on the forums if we entrusted our CB position to Adam Jones.

[Radinho84]

i would rather have a young team of the future that is able to take a serious shot at the sb in the next few years and build around them than adding another tj that does nothing for us as game losing drops.

what is it what makes you guys nervous? last year a month before the draft kindle was one of the best lb in his class. that he fall down the stairs didn´t change anything. he is even stronger and more nfl ready as he could spend a year on the sideline and in the classrooms.

mount cody is right there where alot of guys in here whanted him to be: at starting NT.

we got jimmy smith. by many analysts the best pure cornerback in the draft. we all knew that we couldn´t sign a big name cb. guess what: we hadn´t one the last three years and did very good with it.

we got a couple of young very talented WRs that could easily be our #1 and 2 in a couple years.

we added another cb by the draft who is turning heads right now in camp.

we have a great talent on the team that our coach thought last year should be a superstar in the league in david reed. remeber: our head coach is not a big mouth like ryan.

we have reed, lewis, suggs, ngata. that alone is better than what most teams have as their total defense!!

just lean back and enjoy the season when it finally starts. don´t panic just because we didn´t throw the bank at some guys and build a one year team. what we are doing here is buidling a team for the next decade.

we all wanted our wrs to grow we flacco. check.

we wanted youth on the defense. check.

we wanted our running game back to smash mouth bone crushing nasty running. doblecheck.

i cannot understand the reactions. we have one of the few guys on the team that had a 1000+ yards season as a rookie in q. don´t you haters believe he could tell our young blood how he did it?

i wasn´t as excited for a new season like this year for a long time. finally we will have a team that with a few changes will play for a long time. not only a one season adventure like those jets or eagles. those teams don´t interest me.

WE ARE THE RAVENS!!!!

[ed.s52]

I know Im a little late on this, but the Eagles were taking calls for Asante, they officially put him on the block some time ago.

As for the arguement, I dont understand how we didnt improve. All our young guys got more experience (Flacco, Oher, Rice, Reed, Yanda, Grubbs, Dickson, Pitta, Cody, etc.), we upgraded at SS for less money, upgraded at FB (substantially I might add), got a deep threat and youth for the WR corps, got guys back from injury (Foxy, Kindle, all the guys injured on the OL). Also, we got a RT considering people are calling Reids ability one of the greatest suprises of the camp, and aparently Art Jones is looking like a boss.

But the biggest thing is, no roster cuts have been made. Ozzie WILL grab a guy or two most likely, because a bunch of quality players will get released with roster cuts. And even if he doesnt, there may be a trade in the works pending a Ngata deal so that there will be cap room. Personally, aside from what the FO has already done, I just want a Moss signing or Evans trade (Mason signing if neither work out) and possibly a trade for Asante depending on what the asking price is ( we will have the cap space after the Ngata deal, and we can have him restructure his contract, plus any person we trade for him like one of our CB's per say wouldnt go against our cap. So Foxworth/Carr plus a pick and possibly plus another player like Gooden is totally possible).

Either way, we are/should be Super Bowl favorites in the AFC, with the only team that looks like it can take us down on paper are the Pats or Eagles (possibly one of the other elite teams like steelers).

[reediddy]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1312619369' post='738005']
I know Im a little late on this, but the Eagles were taking calls for Asante, they officially put him on the block some time ago.

As for the arguement, I dont understand how we didnt improve. All our young guys got more experience (Flacco, Oher, Rice, Reed, Yanda, Grubbs, Dickson, Pitta, Cody, etc.), we upgraded at SS for less money, upgraded at FB (substantially I might add), got a deep threat and youth for the WR corps, got guys back from injury (Foxy, Kindle, all the guys injured on the OL). Also, we got a RT considering people are calling Reids ability one of the greatest suprises of the camp, and aparently Art Jones is looking like a boss.

But the biggest thing is, no roster cuts have been made. Ozzie WILL grab a guy or two most likely, because a bunch of quality players will get released with roster cuts. And even if he doesnt, there may be a trade in the works pending a Ngata deal so that there will be cap room. Personally, aside from what the FO has already done, I just want a Moss signing or Evans trade (Mason signing if neither work out) and possibly a trade for Asante depending on what the asking price is ( we will have the cap space after the Ngata deal, and we can have him restructure his contract, plus any person we trade for him like one of our CB's per say wouldnt go against our cap. So Foxworth/Carr plus a pick and possibly plus another player like Gooden is totally possible).

Either way, we are/should be Super Bowl favorites in the AFC, with the only team that looks like it can take us down on paper are the Pats or Eagles (possibly one of the other elite teams like steelers).
[/quote]

I agree we should try at Asante, but who do you suppose we offer? They essentially upgraded all their weaker positions

[Kwothdaraven]

I don't see the need in going for asante. Our weaker positions are wr #2 and oline depth. No need in blowing the rest of our cap on 1 guy

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1312611885' post='737964']
Look, we obviously have an enormous amount of young talent on this team -- Jones, Kruger, Torrey, Doss, Reed, Reid, Kindle, Jimmy, Cody. It would defy logic if at least some of them did not play up to expectations. There is far too much talent there for all of them to just suck. And I trust our staff to figure out who those studs are in time for our meeting against PIT.
[/quote]

This is one of the problems we have on both sides of the ball, we're don't utilise everyone to their abilities and strengths. Why did we sign Stallworth and not use him to stretch the field? why is JJ on the field on passing downs? why couldn't we utilise Leron McClain's versatility? etc

[quote name='Tyler' timestamp='1312614186' post='737982']
So we could start him over our Pro Bowl Left Guard in Grubbs? Or Start him over the Guard we just dumped a bunch of money on? Now if you're talking about depth purposes, Sure.
[/quote]

I'm not talking depth, I'm talking starting him at RG and Yanda at RT. It might not be his most ideal position but lets be real here, Cousins and Reid can't pass protect any better than Yanda so we might as well have a proven mauler out there next to him rather than a project/rookie tackle.

[D-Rey]

[quote name='PurpleandBlackBlood' timestamp='1312610161' post='737949']
houston ran the ball with a single back set like 75% more than a set with leach in im just saying.. not discounting him but teams are starting to realize that if you just put 3 receivers out wide with a singleback you can spread out the defense and wont need a FB.. thats why its a dieing position.. you dont need it as much as you do at other places.. and ok we dont know if the eages were taking calls but we could have at least tried..and who do we have thats a proven above average CB.. foxworth, MAYBE, carr is average and webb is good and will get better but he isnt a starter yet. and dont say jimmy.. i am very excited about him and i hope he is our revis, but we cant go into the season just on hope that rookies will do anything.. there is no solidity..And ok so signing ngata takes a while.. so what it should have happened first. BEFORE yanda. we would have had a better grip on the cap..

i just think you guys arnt looking at the negatives enough..
[/quote]
How do we know if we weren't or are not trying to trade for Asante. Not everything is out in the open and gets leaked. Case in point Aso to the Eagles was a shocker, because no one was talking about them. Plus I if Smith can't handle the cb position in his first year (which I think he will be able to), I am comfortable with Foxy, Carr, Webb, and Williams.

Why would we lock up Ngata first when we had him franchised. We would of risked losing Yanda, which would of put us in a bad situation.

Some people seem to look at just the negatives.

[baltravens]

I want to add something a little more, if our rookies and players who are on the roster for their first year here don't produce, we will be fortunate to see 10 wins. Spots where production initially needs to be seen are RT, CB, and WR. Furthermore, what happens if Birk can go for most of the year?
Our young guys have to step up.

[CapoRocky]

With this schedule I very much doubt that we will see less than 11 wins. I predict 13-3. I don't see us beating the Steelers twice. The Jets are going to be tough after last year's 1 point loss to us. Not to mention, that the Colts have had our number every year. Who can forget that tough loss in the playoffs? I never expected us to lose to Atlanta last year. Luckily we play the Jags on Monday and the 49ers on Thursday this year, because we don't do well on short turnaround games.

[Jamal]

Like I said before, 1 gambler on the defense is enough.

No thanks to Samuel.