Do You Think Art Jones Will Make It Into The Starting Lineup?

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1312583235' post='737425']
Happy to hear that. He should never have been expected to play the five technique in my opinion.

I hope he's deployed the same way.
[/quote]

I agree, but when you have Mattison who believes in getting pressure with his front 4, you have to start putting your pass rusher on the dline, isn't of having them out in space.

The Ravens didn't give up on Kruger at OLB imo, it was just that the OLB didn't rush the QB in Mattison's system, so Kruger was moved.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1312584095' post='737453']
I agree, but when you have Mattison who believes in getting pressure with his front 4, you have to start putting your pass rusher on the dline, isn't of having them out in space.

The Ravens didn't give up on Kruger at OLB imo, it was just that the OLB didn't rush the QB in Mattison's system, so Kruger was moved.
[/quote]

No, I believe he moved to DE because at the time we were thinner at that position. That was before Jones was drafted and before Barnes was traded. Now he's being more of a hybrid guy.

Also, no one got pressure in Mattison's system.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1312584296' post='737459']
No, I believe he moved to DE because at the time we were thinner at that position. That was before Jones was drafted and before Barnes was traded. Now he's being more of a hybrid guy.

[b]Also, no one got pressure in Mattison's system.[/b]
[/quote]

It's not the fact of getting pressure, it's who was designed to get pressure. The only times JJ rushed in Mattison's was when his hand was in the dirt, making his apart of the front 4. Now did he blitz some? Yes most noticeably the opening play of the Broncos game 2 years ago.

However the OLB position in Mattison's defense focused on run support and coverage much more then pass rush.

As for the Ravens being thin at DE, that wasn't the case imo. The Ravens could have moved Kruger back to the outside once, Redding was signed and Jones was drafted. We still had Pryce at the time and Barnes.

Barnes was never supposed to be used as a DE, much like Kruger. Putting their hands in the dirt occasionally is one thing, but trying to turn them into DE's is a result of the system which was wrong for them.

With only Redding, Jones and maybe McPhee, the Ravens are no more stocked at the DE position as they were when the decision to move Kruger was made. So why move him now?

I strongly feel it was Mattison's defensive style that forced the changes we saw on defense over the last 2 years.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='uhhhh' timestamp='1312552813' post='736354']
I typed Cory, as in Cory Redding.
[/quote]

My B. I was at work just glancing through.

Agreed, I'm more excited by jones than redding.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1312585937' post='737489']
It's not the fact of getting pressure, it's who was designed to get pressure. The only times JJ rushed in Mattison's was when his hand was in the dirt, making his apart of the front 4. Now did he blitz some? Yes most noticeably the opening play of the Broncos game 2 years ago.

However the OLB position in Mattison's defense focused on run support and coverage much more then pass rush.

Barnes was never supposed to be used as a DE, much like Kruger. Putting their hands in the dirt occasionally is one thing, but trying to turn them into DE's is a result of the system which was wrong for them.

With only Redding, Jones and maybe McPhee, the Ravens are no more stocked at the DE position as they were when the decision to move Kruger was made. So why move him now?

I strongly feel it was Mattison's defensive style that forced the changes we saw on defense over the last 2 years.
[/quote]

When Kruger started to shift to DE, we hadn't signed Redding, we didn't have Jones, and certainly didn't have McPhee. All we had was Pryce. And for OLB, we had Barnes, JJ, and Suggs. So Kruger wanted a better chance at starting because DE had less depth. Now it's reversed, and he's coming back to OLB it seems.

Mattison's scheme was based on coverage, not pressure. Even when we blitzed, it was reliant on players beating 1-on-1's rather than allowing someone to get free. So Matty didn't do much to help anyone specific get pressure. That's besides the point though.

[quote]As for the Ravens being thin at DE, that wasn't the case imo. The Ravens could have moved Kruger back to the outside once, Redding was signed and Jones was drafted. We still had Pryce at the time and Barnes. [/quote]
It's not that simple. Kruger spent the offseason putting on weight, and shifting him back would require him to once again change his body composition in a short amount of time.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1312593147' post='737702']
When Kruger started to shift to DE, we hadn't signed Redding, we didn't have Jones, and certainly didn't have McPhee. All we had was Pryce. And for OLB, we had Barnes, JJ, and Suggs. So Kruger wanted a better chance at starting because DE had less depth. Now it's reversed, and he's coming back to OLB it seems.

Mattison's scheme was based on coverage, not pressure. Even when we blitzed, it was reliant on players beating 1-on-1's rather than allowing someone to get free. So Matty didn't do much to help anyone specific get pressure. That's besides the point though.


[b]It's not that simple. Kruger spent the offseason putting on weight, and shifting him back would require him to once again change his body composition in a short amount of time.[/b]
[/quote]

But even now he's undersized for that DE role, although he can certainly still play it.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1312594066' post='737724']
But even now he's undersized for that DE role, although he can certainly still play it.
[/quote]

The worst part about all this is I think Kruger would be pretty good in a 4-3

[ed.s52]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1312594413' post='737729']
The worst part about all this is I think Kruger would be pretty good in a 4-3
[/quote]

I definitely agree. I think the FO is planning to use him in our 4-3 type package as the OLB with his hand in the dirt, or maybe on a run/rush heavy 5-3 set.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1312593147' post='737702']
When Kruger started to shift to DE, we hadn't signed Redding, we didn't have Jones, and certainly didn't have McPhee. All we had was Pryce. And for OLB, we had Barnes, JJ, and Suggs. So Kruger wanted a better chance at starting because DE had less depth. Now it's reversed, and he's coming back to OLB it seems.

Mattison's scheme was based on coverage, not pressure. Even when we blitzed, it was reliant on players beating 1-on-1's rather than allowing someone to get free. So Matty didn't do much to help anyone specific get pressure. That's besides the point though.


[b]It's not that simple. Kruger spent the offseason putting on weight, and shifting him back would require him to once again change his body composition in a short amount of time.[/b]
[/quote]

Yet he's the same size as he was last year and working more with the LBs then the Dline.

I'm not saying your wrong, nor am I right.

At the end of the day, Kruger was moved to DE for whatever reason and hopefully he'll get the chance to use his athleticism more in Pagano's defense this year.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1312594066' post='737724']
But even now he's undersized for that DE role, although he can certainly still play it.
[/quote]

Well yeah, he wasn't all the way there because it takes so much time. But I think he'll be a better fit in Pagano's defense, which will (my guess) run a more amoebic front 7 which calls for players to be hybrids.

Imagine being a quarterback and seeing 7 guys in front of you who could line up almost anywhere.


[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1312595633' post='737761']
Yet he's the same size as he was last year and working more with the LBs then the Dline.

I'm not saying your wrong, nor am I right.

At the end of the day, Kruger was moved to DE for whatever reason and hopefully he'll get the chance to use his athleticism more in Pagano's defense this year.
[/quote]

Can't say I disagree either, that's pretty much what I was trying to write.

[wayne]

If we can get a solid contribution from Kruger, I will be surprised. He is a tweener and I just don't see him fitting here, 4-3 would have been best for him. Let's get it Art, can't wait to see him in action b/c for the coaching staff to put him in the starting lineup over Redding, that says something.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1312600535' post='737844']
If we can get a solid contribution from Kruger, I will be surprised. He is a tweener and I just don't see him fitting here, 4-3 would have been best for him. Let's get it Art, can't wait to see him in action b/c for the coaching staff to put him in the starting lineup over Redding, that says something.
[/quote]

When the Ravens played more of a traditional 3-4 like Pagano seems to be bringing back, our defense thrived because of "Tweeners". Suggs, AD and Peter B were all considered Tweeners.

The Ravens made a living taking what appeared to be undersize DE and turning them into OLBs. Sometimes even converting safeties to LB.

Kruger is no different. I'm not saying Kruger will be a monster at the rush OLB position, or that he'll even get many snap, especially if Kindle continues to impress.

But I have no doubts that if Kruger is used more in space, to allow him to use his athleticism, he will have a impact on this defense.

[flynismo]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1312600535' post='737844']
If we can get a solid contribution from Kruger, I will be surprised. He is a tweener and I just don't see him fitting here, 4-3 would have been best for him. Let's get it Art, can't wait to see him in action b/c for the coaching staff to put him in the starting lineup over Redding, that says something.
[/quote]

I hate to say it, because Kruger is one of my favorite young guys on this D, and followed him religiously in college, but I just dont see how he fits on this team with Kindle here.

But, I hear he's doing great so far in camp. Maybe this will be his year.

[Yatagarasu]

Kruger will get his chances.

I like how he will be versatile. Also, quality depth helps this team more as Suggs and JJ can rest for the playoffs.

Kruger will be our AD 2.0 Also, Kindle right now looks like a speed rush, and maybe weak in the run defend department. Kruger who is bigger should be able to hold the point better than Kindle.

[wayne]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1312601264' post='737853']
When the Ravens played more of a traditional 3-4 like Pagano seems to be bringing back, our defense thrived because of "Tweeners". Suggs, AD and Peter B were all considered Tweeners.

The Ravens made a living taking what appeared to be undersize DE and turning them into OLBs. Sometimes even converting safeties to LB.

Kruger is no different. I'm not saying Kruger will be a monster at the rush OLB position, or that he'll even get many snap, especially if Kindle continues to impress.

But I have no doubts that if Kruger is used more in space, to allow him to use his athleticism, he will have a impact on this defense.


[/quote]
Well, I know you not comparing Kruger to those players, you just using them for examples to show how tweeners has been successful on this team. With that being said, one thing all those players have in common that Kruger doesn't have and thats athleticism. Thats major, especially in the success of a tweener IMO.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1312616326' post='737997']
Well, I know you not comparing Kruger to those players, you just using them for examples to show how tweeners has been successful on this team. [b]With that being said, one thing all those players have in common that Kruger doesn't have and thats athleticism. Thats major, especially in the success of a tweener IMO.
[/quote][/b]

But see I think that's the biggest thing that people don't truly know about Kruger. Kruger is a very athletic player. He might possibly be out best in space(zone) coverage OLB. I just think over the past 2 years, while with Mattison Kruger just wasn't really put in positions to showcase his athleticism much.

Somebody compared him to AD, and it's something there. He's not as freakishly gifted as AD, but he'll be able to move around to create matchup problems, and they'll be huge with Suggs and Kindle coming off the edge.

I just feel Mattison wasn't creative enough to use Kruger because his style isn't to be creative, it's beat your man one on one and lets get off the field.

Pagano will probably use more zone blitzes, stunts, twist, loops, and other things that'll allow guys like Kruger to have lots of success.

[POE]

I think until any of these guys(Jones, Kruger, Kindle, Reddding, McPhee) truly separate themselves from the rest of the competition they will all be part of the rotation. I think our coaches are just doing what they are supposed to do by putting guys in different situations and seeing how they react to it. It's way too early to think that any of these guys will make it as the pure starter in my opinion but I think the competition is great.

[ellicottraven]

I saw this dude at training camp from pretty close quarters today. I can report to you that this guy looks slimmer and stronger than ever! He very well could replace Cory Redding this season!

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1312650311' post='738125']
I saw this dude at training camp from pretty close quarters today. I can report to you that this guy looks slimmer and stronger than ever! He very well could replace Cory Redding this season!
[/quote]

Yea he's also quicker off the ball this year then last. In the 11 on 11 portion, he got some quick pressure against Yanda i believe, and was in Joe's face before he could even get to the top of his drop. The very next play Yanda showed why the Ravens paid him so much money and took Jones completely out of the play. But Jones looked good today.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1312612188' post='737969']
[b]I hate to say it, because Kruger is one of my favorite young guys on this D, and followed him religiously in college, but I just dont see how he fits on this team with Kindle here.[/b]

But, I hear he's doing great so far in camp. Maybe this will be his year.
[/quote]

Well in the 11 on 11 portion of practice, the Ravens had Kindle lined up at the 5 technique and Kruger at the OLB position. It looked like a defense designed to get pressure because the down lineman were Kindle, Divens, Jones. and the LBs were, Kruger, Ellerbe, Phillips and McClellan.

Now it was just practice and it could have been something the Ravens wanted to try out, but I strongly feel that Kruger will be used and put in position to make plays this year.

[scrock]

I know this is Art Jones topic but here's a nice article on Kruger

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-paul-kruger-0808-20110807,0,2853637.story

showing some promise, Kruger, Kindle, and Art Jones...three young guys with potential to make plays this year

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1312755542' post='740134']
I know this is Art Jones topic but here's a nice article on Kruger

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-paul-kruger-0808-20110807,0,2853637.story

showing some promise, Kruger, Kindle, and Art Jones...three young guys with potential to make plays this year
[/quote]

Great to see Kruger back where he belongs. I can really see 5+ sacks from him this season.

[scrock]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1312755926' post='740150']
Great to see Kruger back where he belongs. I can really see 5+ sacks from him this season.
[/quote]

I'm excited for all 3 of those guys, Kruger, Jones, and Kindle. I think all three can put pressure on the QB and out of that bunch if they get playing time could be 10+ sacks

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1312755986' post='740151']
I'm excited for all 3 of those guys, Kruger, Jones, and Kindle. I think all three can put pressure on the QB and out of that bunch if they get playing time could be 10+ sacks
[/quote]

That sounds like reasonable number. Assuming they all have decent success bringing pressure, it'll make Suggs and J.J.'s jobs easier.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1312755986' post='740151']
I'm excited for all 3 of those guys, Kruger, Jones, and Kindle. I think all three can put pressure on the QB and out of that bunch if they get playing time could be 10+ sacks
[/quote]

Don't forget about Albert McClellan. His name hasn't been mentioned as much as the other 3, but he could have just as much impact as a pass rusher as those guys.

McClellan saw a lot of time with the 2nd defense at Saturday's practice and from what I saw, Pagano is playing on moving that guy around a lot.

I know the pass rush is as unproven as our WR corp, but much like the WRs, these young pass rushers might really give us what we need in the QB pressure department.

None of those guys are Osi, but collectively, they could really cause problems for teams that give Suggs and Ngata a lot of potential.

[ellicottraven]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1312755926' post='740150']
Great to see Kruger back where he belongs. I can really see 5+ sacks from him this season.
[/quote]


Also this puts a lot less pressure into trying to bring in a free agent pass rusher! The front office has displayed tremendous patience and I am sure for good reason...

[The Raven]

I believe that he will make the starting lineup. Does anyone know how he's been doing in the pass rush? I've heard he's quicker, and that he's gotten more pressure.

I've been on the Kruger bandwagon since we drafted him, and I'm excited to see what he can do for the pass rush. Maybe we can see him start to push JJ for a job. Maybe, maybe not. JJ's contract is up soon though, and right now I have more faith in Paul than in Sergio.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1312768775' post='740382']
I believe that he will make the starting lineup. Does anyone know how he's been doing in the pass rush? I've heard he's quicker, and that he's gotten more pressure.

I've been on the Kruger bandwagon since we drafted him, and I'm excited to see what he can do for the pass rush. Maybe we can see him start to push JJ for a job. Maybe, maybe not. JJ's contract is up soon though, and right now I have more faith in Paul than in Sergio.
[/quote]

I could see Kruger start to push JJ for playing time this year, but ultimately, I think Kindle will take over for JJ.

With the way things went down this year, I could definitely see guys like JJ and Redding not being here next season in favor of Kindle, Kruger and Jones.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1312769408' post='740395']
I could see Kruger start to push JJ for playing time this year, but ultimately, I think Kindle will take over for JJ.

With the way things went down this year, I could definitely see guys like JJ and Redding not being here next season in favor of Kindle, Kruger and Jones.
[/quote]

Those two will have a tough competition. Kindle's more athletic, but Kruger is stronger and has a better motor. Who knows though. I just have a feeling JJ is the next guy to leave. Mainly because he has competent backups like Kindle and Kruger.

[scrock]

I think Kindle and Kruger push for playing time I don't think either will start right away...probably more on 3rd downs. Now Jones I could see taking the starting role from Redding..no problem