Ravens Can't Justify Benching Flacco

[Corvus]

[quote name='I*Bleed*Purple' post='64219' date='Sep 8 2008, 12:23 AM']Why is it that if I don't support Troy Smith, that makes me less of a Ravens fan. I think Smith sucks and I will not support him starting. Every fan wants what they think is best for the team. I don't call a guy who doesn't support Flacco starting less of a fan. I try to help him open his eyes, but I would never question their fanhood. Don't do it to me.[/quote]

Ha, gotta love how you took that as me specifically calling you out. Look, we've already had an argument before about roughly the same thing and we ended that I think as fellow Ravens fans respecting eachother so I'm not even going to go into it after this post. I just think a fan should support their team first and foremost and not one particular player. It's my opinion just like Troy Smith sucks is your opinion. End of story, I'm just gonna enjoy winning our opener.

[theFRANCHISE]

Getting back to the topic at hand, I [i]do[/i] understand why some ardent Troy Smith supporters refuse to give up on their QB.

It's the age-old desire to simply be [i]right[/i]. Everyone wants to say they were right, and they want to be able to say they were right from the get-go; it's the eternal struggle to one-up their fellow man (or in this case, fellow fan). I understand this, because I, too, feel the same way about Joe Flacco; I want to be able to say I was right about him, and today was a significant step towards that vindication.

But on the same token, that desire to be right develops a warped air of superiority; people think they know it all, just because they "knew" who to support and the chips happened to fall their way.

My issue is, if Troy Smith is [i]really[/i] the QB for this team, then how come he hasn't made the most of his limited opportunities? I know that people will harp on the term "limited" to defend their argument, but an opportunity is an opportunity, nonetheless.

At the end of the day, it's hard to develop an argument that Smith has done more to "deserve" the starting job than Flacco. Whether each QB will get their just desserts, depends on how each man handles their respective situation.

If Smith wants to be the starter, then he'll have to play like one when it counts. If Flacco wants to remain the starter, then he'll have to perform when asked and sacrifice without asking.

If both men want to be on a winning team, then they'll have to swallow their pride and do what the men in front of them (the coaches) say is best for the men behind them (the team).

[I*Bleed*Purple]

[quote name='Corvus' post='64221' date='Sep 7 2008, 11:27 PM']Ha, gotta love how you took that as me specifically calling you out. Look, we've already had an argument before about roughly the same thing and we ended that I think as fellow Ravens fans respecting eachother so I'm not even going to go into it after this post. I just think a fan should support their team first and foremost and not one particular player. It's my opinion just like Troy Smith sucks is your opinion. End of story, I'm just gonna enjoy winning our opener.[/quote]

Didn't mean it to sound like YOU were saying it to me. I meant in general. Others have said it to me, directly.

[I*Bleed*Purple]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' post='64224' date='Sep 7 2008, 11:31 PM']My issue is, if Troy Smith is [i]really[/i] the QB for this team, then how come he hasn't made the most of his limited opportunities? I know that people will harp on the term "limited" to defend their argument, but an opportunity is an opportunity, nonetheless.[/quote]
Limited? He's had more opportunity than Flacco. He's had 2 games last year, most of the snaps with the first-team offense during TC, and some play during 2 preaseason games. I wouldn't call his opportunities limited, especially compared to Flacco's.

[RavenfanShaggy]

Hi guys, my first post on the boards, but felt I read them daily and felt that I had something to contribute here.

[quote]They were also both QB's. Doug Flutie was a QB first, runner second[/quote]

This really isnt true, except maybe his last few years in the NFL. I grew up in New England, not too far from BC. And everywhere Flutie went, he made the headlines and highlight films throughout his career. His calling card was running around to set up the pass. Check out some highlights from his time in the CFL. He took major advantage of the wider field, simply because of that reason.

Now to the topic at hand, Obviously you don't pull a QB who is performing well and winning games... well you don't unless you are the Buffalo Bills and the QB is the aforementioned Flutie My opinion is now, whatever the circumstances that caused it, Flacco is the starter. Unless he is stinking up the joint on Sunday, keep giving him the ball. I dont want to see Smith starting when he is healthy based on anything that happens in practice. (to quote Iverson- "We talkin about PRACTICE man").

IF Smith was outperforming in practice, AND Flacco was struggling in the real game situations, then I would see no problem with handing Joe the clipboard and letting Troy give it a shot.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='I*Bleed*Purple' post='64229' date='Sep 8 2008, 12:46 AM']Limited? He's had more opportunity than Flacco. He's had 2 games last year, most of the snaps with the first-team offense during TC, and some play during 2 preaseason games. I wouldn't call his opportunities limited, especially compared to Flacco's.[/quote]

I use the phrase "limited" in the sense that people might say Troy Smith didn't get enough opportunities to see what he was made of (hence why he would "deserve" to start over Flacco).

But, limited or not, they were still opportunities. If the team were to annoint the starting QB based on the number of [i]career[/i] opportunities given and received, then Todd Bouman would win the job by default -- but that's not how it's supposed to work.

"Give Troy a chance?" He's already had his chance, and shouldn't be given another until circumstances necessitate it. "Give Kyle a chance?" Been there, done that.

Fact of the matter is, Flacco got the job by (familiar word coming here) [u]circumstance[/u], and it's up to [i]him[/i] to keep it.

Was it "fair" what happened to Smith and Boller? Not necessarily. But for their fans to dwell on lost opportunities is putting the player before the team. And it's the same with me, as a Flacco fan. I shouldn't be dwelling on why Flacco should be the starter, and should be more worried about the rest of the team.

But as it stands, no matter who it is, my starvation for a QB to call my own is already being fed -- so either you eat with the pack, or you die by hunger.

In other words, you can accept whoever's under center and be happy with winning, or you can moan about your choice being shafted and take each win for granted. The choice is yours.

Either way, no one will question your fanhood if you choose to live and die by your own sword. Because through it all, you're still fighting on the same side, even if it's amongst each other.

[BloodRaven]

I like what Im seeing with Flacco, and its not always true that a QB will fail if thrown into the mix from day one, and while many have failed others have prospered. Just because it Boller failed doesnt mean it will happen to Flacco.

Smith is an anomaly, hes short but he showed last year he can play well sometimes.

[I*Bleed*Purple]

[quote name='BloodRaven' post='64234' date='Sep 7 2008, 11:04 PM']I like what Im seeing with Flacco, and its not always true that a QB will fail if thrown into the mix from day one, and while many have failed others have prospered. Just because it Boller failed doesnt mean it will happen to Flacco.

Smith is an anomaly, hes short but he showed last year he can play well sometimes.[/quote]

I agree about being throw to the wolves.

But Smith playing well sometimes? We need a QB that plays consistently well all of the time. Flacco has been the most consistent (good consistency) so far.

[mpplaya07]

what are you guies talking about... Smith will not start by any means.... Flacco will be our QB.... its doesnt make a difference if smith is healthy tomorrow or the next day or next week.... You guies dont understand this offense is rebuiling right now, you have your QB of the future playing... if he throws interceptions next week, its a learning opportunity.. The guy is a rookie not a vetern so no matter if he sucks or not he will play.....Their shouldnt be any post about benching flacco or anything the guy will start this season unless he gets injured, theirs no other way for this kid to learn the game... Even if we bench him whos going to mentor him, what vet on the team do you want talking to him? Its the same thing like in atlanta their not going to bench matt ryan cause he does bad in a game why, hes their QB you back them up through the darkest of days to the glory wins...

[BloodRaven]

youre gonna want to change your sig before the moderators nuke it, politics is a no-no.

[die_hard_raven]

Just like some of us Troy supporters wanted him to earn the job, we must now support Flacco and realize it is him job to lose. I'm sorry Troy had health problems when he did but it is what it is and if Flacco improves every week I will support him. Let us remember Cincy sucks but that was still a good performance for a rookie. I give props where it is due

[PurpleTalon]

Congrats to the Ravens for a great opening game



What i want to know is, will Joe Flacco start next week and the week after and the week after that? Yes, he did an awesome job for the Ravens fans and the Ravens squad this week, but can he do it again? I say YES! I think he proved himself a worthy quarterback for the Ravens and hopefully he'll have the oppurtunity to show off again.

I guess with all this what i'm trying to say is, when Troy Smith gets better are they going to dump Flacco and start Smith? Or will they keep Flacco in?

Well...

[CARavensFan]

[quote name='POE' post='64099' date='Sep 7 2008, 06:17 PM']I believe I heard earlier today that there has only been one rookie head coach/QB tandem that won their first regular season game together and if that holds true then Harbaugh/Flacco can use that to define this season. I feel that Flacco's performance has definetly solidified him as the starter for this Ravens squad. I have to agree with you and say that Smith won't see the field as starter unless an injury or a blowout is involved. Flacco has shown that the more time he gets behind center the better he will be and the more he will learn.[/quote]

Well now there are two that both happened yesterday, since Matt Ryan and Mike Smith won their first game as well as Joe Flacco and John Harbaugh!

[PurpleClawsOfFURY]

Keep him till the fans turn against him and call him a rookie that shouldn't start

[EXEravenforlife]

[quote name='PurpleTalon' post='64315' date='Sep 8 2008, 12:18 PM']Congrats to the Ravens for a great opening game



What i want to know is, will Joe Flacco start next week and the week after and the week after that? Yes, he did an awesome job for the Ravens fans and the Ravens squad this week, but can he do it again? I say YES! I think he proved himself a worthy quarterback for the Ravens and hopefully he'll have the oppurtunity to show off again.

I guess with all this what i'm trying to say is, when Troy Smith gets better are they going to dump Flacco and start Smith? Or will they keep Flacco in?

Well...[/quote]

after watching yesterday's game, it would be foolish to start smith over flacco.

[golfingraven]

Regardless of whether Troy Smith had been selected to be the starter, the fact is that circumstances unfortunately did not work out in his favor - it may have been different if this was during the season and Troy had been the starter and had been performing well and then got sick - but since Troy had never been a starter in a real game situation and Flacco played well enough to keep starting job, Flacco should be able to keep the starting job until and if he loses it.

[PurpleTalon]

See thats what i'm thinking, lets keep him in. the other thing i'm hearing is that they don't want him to turn into another kyle boller incedent.

any thoughts on this?

[RavensIQ]

Until it breaks don't fix it. And if it works don't replace it.

[PurpleTalon]

thats it..."if it ain't broke don't fix it" Lets go with that for know...lol

[golfingraven]

I think the Kyle Boller situation had more to do with Boller and Billick than the fact that he started as a rookie. The problem was that Boller simply could not handle pressure and his receiver progressions were suspect plus the fact that he was prone to making mistakes with ball handling and footwork. I'm not putting all the blaime on Boller as there was a lack of protection and the play calling was such that teams could easily scheme for the short pass and overall predictive play calling by Billick.

[PurpleTalon]

[quote name='golfingraven' post='64342' date='Sep 8 2008, 12:08 PM']I think the Kyle Boller situation had more to do with Boller and Billick than the fact that he started as a rookie. The problem was that Boller simply could not handle pressure and his receiver progressions were suspect plus the fact that he was prone to making mistakes with ball handling and footwork. I'm not putting all the blaime on Boller as there was a lack of protection and the play calling was such that teams could easily scheme for the short pass and overall predictive play calling by Billick.[/quote]

Yeah Brian Billick had way too much love for Boller. I'm not a die hard fan, but what games i caught it seemed as though Boller was a bit sloppy. like you said i think his ball handling skills and footwork left much to be desired. Hopefully, Harbough won't make the same mistakes. I think we will have a strong and complete team this season even given the issues with our starting QB.

[FerrariFan87]

There's no way we take Joe out unless he really falters greatly, which from what I saw this week, is not going to happen. He is poised, calm, and collected. He has earned the respect of the ENTIRE locker room and coaching staff (See Clayton's TD run and Joe's big blocks way down-field!). While we will learn a lot more about Joe this week on the ROAD, where we have struggled greatly, if we just continue to run the ball effectively and play ferocious D. I am not expecting gaudy numbers, I only want him to manage the game and be smart, and the rest will come with time

[itscbm5042]

Regardless of Smith's health this is Flacco's job to lose. Here is a man who only got 30 reps a practice with the 1st string offense and commanded that team and became a true field general is his first ever game he was making audibles, sound decisions, and earned the respect of the veterans with his mental and physical toughness. Troy Smith just can't do that and because of Joe's physical ability and stature the offense can be run much differently then with a tiny scrambling QB. Smith has had his chance in '07 in 2 games and every practice with the 1st stringers and he never blew anyone away and always resorted to scrambling and shifting when things didn't go his way. Joe has much more poise than Troy and stands confidently in the pocket and surveys the field and its development. He is a much smarter QB than Troy and much more physically capable in today's NFL with the schemes we're running in 2008. As Flacco gets all the practice time with the first stringers now he will develop the passer/receiver relationships needed (looks like Clayton may be his go to guy for '08) and Heap will get use to catching a ball thrown by Flacco and the placements will all develop. And as previously stated he is already looking like a very efficient and extremely smart field general.

Thoughts?

[PuRock]

Check this out. Maybe destiny is on Joe Flacco's side. I found this article with this quote below: [url="http://wjz.com/local/baltimore.ravens.cincinnati.2.812752.html"]http://wjz.com/local/baltimore.ravens.cinc...i.2.812752.html[/url]
[i]
"As an aside, Sunday was a winning and lucky day for the number 5. The winning pick-three in the Maryland Lotto was 5-5-5.
That combo won and paid out $1.1 million in prizes. Players had to choose their numbers before the game. Whether they were inspired by the upcoming play by Flacco is anyone's guess. "[/i]

Just another reason why we can't bench Flacco.

[SickBoy]

Joe Flacco played a decent game. I was very, very happy that the defense was able to have such a great performance for us to come out with a win. If we would have lost that game, which was very possible, we wouldn't be as thrilled with Joe Flacco. Or that ref, who called back Yamon Figure's touchdown.

[BuckWilds]

[quote name='PuRock' post='64537' date='Sep 8 2008, 05:56 PM']Check this out. Maybe destiny is on Joe Flacco's side. I found this article with this quote below: [url="http://wjz.com/local/baltimore.ravens.cincinnati.2.812752.html"]http://wjz.com/local/baltimore.ravens.cinc...i.2.812752.html[/url]
[i]
"As an aside, Sunday was a winning and lucky day for the number 5. The winning pick-three in the Maryland Lotto was 5-5-5.
That combo won and paid out $1.1 million in prizes. Players had to choose their numbers before the game. Whether they were inspired by the upcoming play by Flacco is anyone's guess. "[/i]

Just another reason why we can't bench Flacco.[/quote]

Ok, that's officially eerie.

[smashmouth]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' post='64079' date='Sep 7 2008, 09:50 PM']Going into today's game, it's been pretty clear that I've been pulling for Joe Flacco to become the Ravens' permanent starter since the day he was drafted. Although I've tried to be unbiased in my comments, there is no hiding the fact that I've preferred Flacco to the other Raven quarterbacks.

In the days leading to kickoff, I couldn't help but wonder what [i]might[/i] happen when Troy Smith is healthy enough to play again. The "obvious" decision would be to keep Flacco as the starter [i]if[/i] he plays well enough to keep the job.

However, in the NFL, there is [i]no such thing[/i] as an "obvious" decision.

Though many Troy Smith supporters have changed their tune after today's game, there are bound to be more than a few holdouts, waiting for Smith to reclaim "his" job. Honestly, bias aside, there is [i]no way[/i] the Ravens can justify benching Joe Flacco in favor of Troy Smith, [i]if[/i] Flacco manages to play decently over these next couple of games.

I can envision a scenario down the line where Smith [i]may[/i] be given the start if the team is out of playoff contention, but even [i]then[/i], I'd be hard-pressed to accept #5 on the bench for reasons other than injury or a string of poor performances.

I understand that this [i]could[/i] be seen as an emotional response to [i]one[/i] game -- but this [i]one[/i] game happened to hold much significance for this team and its rookie head coach. And ultimately, this [i]one[/i] game [i]could[/i] change the complexion of this entire season.

Thoughts?[/quote]
Well Said, Unless Flacco has really bad performances over the next few weeks, and Troy Smith has awesome practices over those same weeks, theres no way He can or should be pulled, If Flacco plays well again next week.. and Smith comes back and gets the starting jon then Harbaugh should be fired.. on the spot.. and promote Cam Cam, Rex ryan would be my first choice, But Im stingy and love seeing Him run the defense.

[smashmouth]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' post='64215' date='Sep 8 2008, 12:17 AM']...hey hey hey, if [i]anyone[/i] is gonna get a "You were right," you [i]know[/i] it should be [i]me[/i].

I was the [i]only[/i] one calling for the Ravens to draft Joe Flacco, [i]way[/i] before the draft hype opened people's eyes. And on draft day, I was the [i]only[/i] one justifying why Flacco was selected in the first round instead of the second round.

Simmer down now. (lol)[/quote]

I was calling for Matt Ryan, but like very other few people I still had Him rated second on my board, I diddnt know much about him really, Ive seen a few highlights over the year and then watched all His highlights before the draft, He defiently wasnt rated as high as Ryan but was not too far behind and was well ahead of all the other ones out there.
But I wouldent have been made if He fell to us in the second round, but Im glad we got Him in the first because the way it was looking He wouldent have been there in the second, even if we diddnt trade up to get Him. also since He got drafted in the first, and was a projected 2nd or 3rd round then guess how much of a confidence booster that is? I imagine thats the biggest reason he has put in so much work in learning the offense and watches film on NFL defenses.

[Ravens549]

I have stated to all my Ravens' friends that Smith's tonsil infection may have cost him ever having a career as a starter in the NFL. Sad, but I feel true.

[nextgen_RavensFan]

I think since we let him start we have to let it play out good or bad or it will crush his confidence. We dont need another boller syndrome do we ? All rookies have bad games. Look at troys first year with dallas, he was what 2 and 12 ? We have to let it ride out and show the support.