ESPN Strikes Again

[scrock]

We all know how ESPN and pretty much every other media outlet disrespects Baltimore and the Ravens. So it should come as no surprise that today on SVP's show a question was posed, who is the better QB Josh Freeman or Joe Flacco? Both guys went for Josh Freeman after he had a good rookie year. They said the main reason being the Ravens have way more talent around Joe and he hasn't really done as much with it as Freeman did with what he had with the Bucs....

My argument, its was one year lets see if Freeman can be consistent. He's also in the NFC which is the weaker conference and when they faced teams with a .500 record or better they LOST every game!! Josh Freeman also had Mike Williams who proved to be a special talent in his rookie year. Williams has that speed to get open and take it the distance, something Flacco has never had in Baltimore. I mean other than Ray Rice on dump offs!! Flacco has improved every year and he's gotten it done against the top competition in the AFC with some of the best QBs in the league. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Carson Palmer when he was good, the one who shall not be named, and I can't remember them all.

Point is..the Bucs had a nice year as a team and Freeman played well but picking Freeman over Flacco at this point is premature. The media always does this, they always take what happens yesterday and run with it like its the new standard. Then tomorrow when things change.....blah blah blah

i rambled a little bit...sorry

[Ed_Reed20]

[url="http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/28/top-10-quarterbacks-in-n-f-l/#more-77703"]Fifth Down Blog rated Freeman as their 10th best QB[/url] in late June, and made no mention of Joe in the piece. At least those people break down film before making assessments.

Regarding Van Pelt, I could care less what he has to say. These lists and players comparisons from uninformed national media personalities get entirely too much attention, especially considering how much they fluctuate.

[Crabcakes&Football]

Personally, I think it's ridiculous. Flacco and the Ravens have been deep in the playoffs 3 years in a row, losing to the AFC champ all 3 years, while Freeman hasn't even made the playoffs. He had a winning season and good stats for one year while playing mostly soft defenses. How is that doing more with his team? The Ravens were arguably the 2nd best team in the AFC since Flacco's emergence. The only QB from the NFC South that is better than Flacco is Drew Brees. Not Matt Ryan, certainly not Josh Freeman. The media will always have it's darlings though. Flacco has earned respect, but still doesn't get it, and won't until he gets a ring and people are forced to take notice.

[lowrider]

I'm not a fan of SVP and I'm especially not a fan of Rian on that show. I don't like Rian because of how he downplayed the women's USA soccer play with Abby Wambauch and how amazing that play was but thats another debate for another thread.

Flacco plays tougher competition. Its easy to do well against easy teams. Like others have said above me, Freeman has played poorly against tougher teams. Granted Flacco has struggled against the Steelers but a lot of qb's struggle against the Steelers. I mean the Buc's lost to the Steelers last year without Big Ben....

[flynismo]

Minor note: Freeman wasn't a rookie, this was his second season. His rookie year was terrible.Other than that, who cares. Joe will never get respect unless he wins MULTIPLE superbowls, not just one. The first time he does it will be "because his team carried him to it".I'd rather be the overlooked team. I'm a Lakers fan, and I know what it's like to support a team who the media adores. This is better.

[edreedfromtheu]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1311280804' post='710740']
We all know how ESPN and pretty much every other media outlet disrespects Baltimore and the Ravens. So it should come as no surprise that today on SVP's show a question was posed, who is the better QB Josh Freeman or Joe Flacco? Both guys went for Josh Freeman after he had a good rookie year. They said the main reason being the Ravens have way more talent around Joe and he hasn't really done as much with it as Freeman did with what he had with the Bucs....

My argument, its was one year lets see if Freeman can be consistent. He's also in the NFC which is the weaker conference and when they faced teams with a .500 record or better they LOST every game!! Josh Freeman also had Mike Williams who proved to be a special talent in his rookie year. Williams has that speed to get open and take it the distance, something Flacco has never had in Baltimore. I mean other than Ray Rice on dump offs!! Flacco has improved every year and he's gotten it done against the top competition in the AFC with some of the best QBs in the league. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Carson Palmer when he was good, the one who shall not be named, and I can't remember them all.

Point is..the Bucs had a nice year as a team and Freeman played well but picking Freeman over Flacco at this point is premature. The media always does this, they always take what happens yesterday and run with it like its the new standard. Then tomorrow when things change.....blah blah blah

i rambled a little bit...sorry
[/quote]

You sound like you're making a lot of excuses for Flacco.

And the AFC being the stronger conference is really just your opinion. The Packers, Saints, Falcons... all really good teams, and two of them are in the Buc's division. Each conference has one horrible division. And the Ravens have the luxury of having a team as ridiculous as the Bengals in their division, yet have trouble beating them every single year.

[edreedfromtheu]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1311284024' post='710770']
Minor note: Freeman wasn't a rookie, this was his second season. His rookie year was terrible.Other than that, who cares. [i][b]Joe will never get respect unless he wins MULTIPLE superbowls, not just one. The first time he does it will be "because his team carried him to it".[/b][/i]I'd rather be the overlooked team. I'm a Lakers fan, and I know what it's like to support a team who the media adores. This is better.
[/quote]

That really depends on how he plays on the way to that Super Bowl. If the Ravens win, and he wasn't turning the ball over, keeping drives going and keeping the other team's offense off the field, and of course scoring touchdowns... then he'll probably get the credit and he'll probably deserve it.

If he's not doing those things, then yes... people will probably say he was carried by his talented team. And they'll be right. But Joe will still have a ring, and that's really all that matters in the end.

I don't give Roethlisberger credit for winning either Super Bowl... but the bottom line is he has 2 rings. And that's all most care about.

[flynismo]

,[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1311284306' post='710774']<br />That really depends on how he plays on the way to that Super Bowl.  If the Ravens win, and he wasn't turning the ball over, keeping drives going and keeping the other team's offense off the field, and of course scoring touchdowns... then he'll probably get the credit and he'll probably deserve it.<br /><br />If he's not doing those things, then yes... people will probably say he was carried by his talented team.  And they'll be right.  But Joe will still have a ring, and that's really all that matters in the end.<br /><br />I don't give Roethlisberger credit for winning either Super Bowl... but the bottom line is he has 2 rings.  And that's all most care about.<br />[/quote]


I'd love to believe that, because that's how it should be. But an awful lot of people just seem to have it out for Flacco.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

Honestly so far I like when Joe doesn't get respect because every preseason people are saying, "Oh well he needs to take that next step right now he has this fault or that fault." Truth of the matter is he has taken considerable steps each year and if he does that gain this year with the weapon's we have it is going to get ugly for a lot of defenses.

[scrock]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1311284024' post='710770']
Minor note: Freeman wasn't a rookie, this was his second season. His rookie year was terrible.Other than that, who cares. Joe will never get respect unless he wins MULTIPLE superbowls, not just one. The first time he does it will be "because his team carried him to it".I'd rather be the overlooked team. I'm a Lakers fan, and I know what it's like to support a team who the media adores. This is better.
[/quote]

Wow, I didn't even realize that..forgot I guess, that makes it even worse. He's a 2nd year QB, first year starting...that makes what he did less impressive, Joe did it his first year.

[scrock]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1311284107' post='710772']
You sound like you're making a lot of excuses for Flacco.

And the AFC being the stronger conference is really just your opinion. The Packers, Saints, Falcons... all really good teams, and two of them are in the Buc's division. Each conference has one horrible division. And the Ravens have the luxury of having a team as ridiculous as the Bengals in their division, yet have trouble beating them every single year.
[/quote]

Surprise surprise, edreedfromtheu has something negative to say. Its not just my opinion, its been the opinion of the majority of the human population that watches football for the past decade or longer.

You never say anything good about Joe or the Ravens in general it seems. I don't have to defend Joe, I'm simply stating how ridiculous it is for all these media ppl to anoint Freeman as the better QB after one year. 1 year where he never beat a team with a winning record...

[berad]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1311284107' post='710772']
You sound like you're making a lot of excuses for Flacco.

And the AFC being the stronger conference is really just your opinion. The Packers, Saints, Falcons... all really good teams, and two of them are in the Buc's division. Each conference has one horrible division. And the Ravens have the luxury of having a team as ridiculous as the Bengals in their division, yet have trouble beating them every single year.
[/quote]

Why is a valid defense an "excuse"? No one is excusing Flacco of anything, he played pretty well but still has some areas to improve.

All you really need to say is that, from week 2 on, Flacco had the 2nd best QB rating in the NFL. Also, Flacco played better against good competition.

[ravens rule]

[url="http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=6791013"]My link[/url]


Here is the link.

[atljbo]

I feel like a lot of ppl get caught in the moment (with Freeman) ... It seem the problem most have with Flacco is the sacks (that an issue Rodgers have also) and his lack of anticipation (must see the WR open) ... It seem like thats why they rate other less accomplished QB's in the league over him.

Thats what ive noticed... Ive heard most Ravens fan say something similar... But its easy to change "experts mind" ... Joe Flacco go out there and do this thing next year... Improve on those aspects of his game...

[Wacko4Zacko]

Here is comparison of stats between both QB first 2 years in league.


[u]Flacco [/u]

[b]2008[/b]
CMP: 257 out of 428
PASS Yrds: 2,971
TD: 14
INT: 12
FUMB: 6
Playoff Appearance(Lost in AFC Championship Game)

[b]2009[/b]
CMP: 315 out 499
Pass Yrds: 3,613
TD: 21
INT: 12
FUMB: 6
Playoffs Appearence(Lost in AFC Divisional Round)


[u]Freeman[/u]

[b]2009[/b]
CMP: 158 out of 290
Pass Yrds: 1855
TD: 10
INT: 18
FUMB: 6

[b]2010[/b]
CMP: 291 out of 474
Pass Yrds: 3,451
TD: 25
INT: 6
FUMB: 5

[Militant X 1]

i think that the main reason why Flacco doesn't get his respect is the fact that he has not beaten the man and the team that stands in his way for a SB Championship....Big Ben and the Steelers! UNTIL he does that....he will always be highly criticized. i've even done it myself!

~Mili

[atljbo]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1311288233' post='710817']
i think that the main reason why Flacco doesn't get his respect is the fact that he has not beaten the man and the team that stands in his way for a SB Championship....Big Ben and the Steelers! UNTIL he does that....he will always be highly criticized. i've even done it myself!

~Mili
[/quote]


I dont think its that... I think its that most feel like his team dont live and die by Flacco... They feel like the D is the base of your team... Big Ben is another example... The guy won 2 Championships but the players rate him like the 6 or 7 QB in the league (41st) ... That shows... The players feel without that D... He is not the same player... Look at Harrison's comments about Big Ben

It is what it is... So if anyone has a gripe.. The Steelers have a legit one... Dude has won championships and still dont get his due respect...lol

[Gordo52]

Its just because people are high on Freeman. And he had better stats then Joe in 2010. Which dont mean anything, but to them it does. All the media thinks about when they think of Joe Flacco is the QB on the team with a monster defense who "gets older every year" that cant beat the Steelers and isnt good under pressure. Well I think the Media is just full of Raven haters and steelers lovers. Theyll do anything to make us look bad. It all goes back to the steelers! Even Joe Flacco vs Josh Freeman discussion.

[Wacko4Zacko]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1311289040' post='710829']
Its just because people are high on Freeman. And he had better stats then Joe in 2010. Which dont mean anything, but to them it does.
[/quote]
I totally agree with you. I'm sorry but last time I checked stats don't get you nor your team to the playoffs.

[Marc2k6]

[quote name='Wacko4Zacko' timestamp='1311288089' post='710815']
Here is comparison of stats between both QB first 2 years in league.


[u]Flacco [/u]

[b]2008[/b]
CMP: 257 out of 428
PASS Yrds: 2,971
TD: 14
INT: 12
FUMB: 6
Playoff Appearance(Lost in AFC Championship Game)

[b]2009[/b]
CMP: 315 out 499
Pass Yrds: 3,613
TD: 21
INT: 12
FUMB: 6
Playoffs Appearence(Lost in AFC Divisional Round)


[u]Freeman[/u]

[b]2009[/b]
CMP: 158 out of 290
Pass Yrds: 1855
TD: 10
INT: 18
FUMB: 6

[b]2010[/b]
CMP: 291 out of 474
Pass Yrds: 3,451
TD: 25
INT: 6
FUMB: 5
[/quote]
2009 Freeman played in 9 1/2 games.

[Ed_Reed20]

The reasons people in the media are ranking Freeman over Joe are little different from why they've ranked Matt Ryan over Joe. When a young team with little personality drafts a talented QB, and the team has success, he's naturally going to attract fans.

Again though, who the media wants to crown the next big thing is unimportant.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='Wacko4Zacko' timestamp='1311293769' post='710897']
I totally agree with you. I'm sorry but last time I checked stats don't get you nor your team to the playoffs.
[/quote]
Same goes for matt ryan!

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1311288776' post='710825']
[b]I dont think its that... I think its that most feel like his team dont live and die by Flacco... They feel like the D is the base of your team[/b]... Big Ben is another example... The guy won 2 Championships but the players rate him like the 6 or 7 QB in the league (41st) ... That shows... The players feel without that D... He is not the same player... Look at Harrison's comments about Big Ben

It is what it is... So if anyone has a gripe.. The Steelers have a legit one... Dude has won championships and still dont get his due respect...lol
[/quote]

Flacco has never beat the Steelers with Big Ben (2x SB Champ) playing. that is the argument and it is a fact! the Steelers are in his way! it is sorta like QB vs QB. both of the defenses are extremely similiar.

~Mili

[wikle]

I think the reason Freeman gets the attention is because of how many late comebacks he has in his short career. But if you think about it he has a pretty good team around him; with Winslow at tight end, Blunt is an emerging star at running back, and a good defense.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1311280804' post='710740']
We all know how ESPN and pretty much every other media outlet disrespects Baltimore and the Ravens. So it should come as no surprise that today on SVP's show a question was posed, who is the better QB Josh Freeman or Joe Flacco? Both guys went for Josh Freeman after he had a good rookie year. They said the main reason being the Ravens have way more talent around Joe and he hasn't really done as much with it as Freeman did with what he had with the Bucs....

My argument, its was one year lets see if Freeman can be consistent. He's also in the NFC which is the weaker conference and when they faced teams with a .500 record or better they LOST every game!! Josh Freeman also had Mike Williams who proved to be a special talent in his rookie year. Williams has that speed to get open and take it the distance, something Flacco has never had in Baltimore. I mean other than Ray Rice on dump offs!! Flacco has improved every year and he's gotten it done against the top competition in the AFC with some of the best QBs in the league. Brady, Manning, Rivers, Carson Palmer when he was good, the one who shall not be named, and I can't remember them all.

Point is..the Bucs had a nice year as a team and Freeman played well but picking Freeman over Flacco at this point is premature. The media always does this, they always take what happens yesterday and run with it like its the new standard. Then tomorrow when things change.....blah blah blah

i rambled a little bit...sorry
[/quote]

Plus didnt we Beat the Buccs, Freeman looked good at times but its funny how all these NFL shows dont talk about how Messed up are O- line was. I know for a fact we would have won atleast 2 more games. The O line was a mess so we couldnt use our talented WRers the way they should have been used, also look at our O.C , come on now we went 12-4 with him, Thats pretty good in my book if you ask me.
We had everthing going against us and still won games. Freeman is decent but he isnt the savor. We will know after this season if he is the real deal. Also come on man, its the NFC, look who they have to face every year and look who we have to face every yr. Im suprised we actually got one of the easiest schedules this yr. And thats based on the other teams record from the season before.

Who knows those so called bad teams might end up being good teams this yr, Just our luck.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1311301195' post='711050']
Flacco has never beat the Steelers with Big Ben (2x SB Champ) playing. that is the argument and it is a fact! the Steelers are in his way! it is sorta like QB vs QB. both of the defenses are extremely similiar.

~Mili
[/quote]

But here is my argument , is Big Ben playing on the Stealers Defense, NO.

And No one was arguing about the stealers back-up QB until the RAVENS beat them, they were undefeated until we got our hands on them.

To me the whole record thing with big ben is hog wash IMO. Dont worry the Ravens have their number this yr, both games maybe 3 games but i doubt the Stealers are making it to the play offs, its just a gut feeling i have. They are going to be a wreck this yr and then you will hear all the excuses from their fans when we sweep them.

[atljbo]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1311308432' post='711167']
Plus didnt we Beat the Buccs, Freeman looked good at times but its funny how all these NFL shows dont talk about how Messed up are O- line was. I know for a fact we would have won atleast 2 more games. The O line was a mess so we couldnt use our talented WRers the way they should have been used, also look at our O.C , come on now we went 12-4 with him, Thats pretty good in my book if you ask me.
We had everthing going against us and still won games. Freeman is decent but he isnt the savor. We will know after this season if he is the real deal. Also come on man, its the NFC, look who they have to face every year and look who we have to face every yr. Im suprised we actually got one of the easiest schedules this yr. And that based on the other teams record from the season before.

Who knows those so called bad teams might end up being good teams this yr, Just our luck.
[/quote]


I hear fans saying that but PFF and others ive seen have yall ranked in the top 5

[url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/13/2010-offensive-line-rankings-%E2%80%93-part-2/"]PFF O-Line ranking[/url]
[quote]4. Baltimore Ravens (2009 Rank: 5th)

Run Rank 4th, Pass Rank 7th, Penalties Rank 6th

Extremely strong in the run game, Ben Grubbs is becoming the player they thought they drafted and Marshal Yanda continues to impress. Punishing blocker whether at guard or tackle, and someone they need to re-sign.

Best Player: How good (and underrated) a signing has Matt Birk been? Our top ranked center in 2010 during the regular season.

Biggest Concern: As was indicated by his performances at the position in 2009, switching to the left side was a real tough transition for Michael Oher. How much (and how quickly) can he improve?[/quote]


From what ive read and saw... Flacco holds on to the ball

[berad]

We were [u]not[/u] the 4th best run-blocking OL. PFF needs their heads checked on that one. If I had a dime for every time we struggled to run the ball, [i]especially[/i] in short-yardage situations, I'd be a wealthy dude.

We were better in pass-protection but not by much.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1311300215' post='711030']
Same goes for[b] matt ryan[/b]!
[/quote]


I am soooooo sick of the Matt Ryan / Joe Flacco comparisons , im done with him, he could have won the SB this past season and i still would pick Flacco over Ryan.

On a side note - is it just me or does anyone else think Ryan looks like a chipmunk.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1311308895' post='711171']
From what ive read and saw... Flacco holds on to the ball
[/quote]

Part of that is due to a scheme that calls for a lot of deep throws. There were times the WRs struggled to separate. On other occasions, Joe wasn't simply hesitant to throw, or too slow making his reads.