Linebackers

[deathbird52]

Over the years we have always had exceptional play from our LBs. We know what Ray and Sizzle will do but what about the others? Who do you see blitzing more and who will dropping back in coverage? What are your thoughts on our young LBs, undrafted rookies, and any potenial FAs we may pick up.

[Ed_Reed20]

If Kindle can return successfully, I think he'll be used much like Suggs was during his rookie season. I'm hoping Gooden is sent on more blitzes(assuming he can stay healthy).

[deathbird52]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1310182805' post='705203']
If Kindle can return successfully, I think he'll be used much like Suggs was during his rookie season. I'm hoping Gooden is sent on more blitzes(assuming he can stay healthy).
[/quote]

Hopefully everyone will stay healthy. I don't think we've had our entire LB corps play at a high level since 2008. I miss having LBs other than Ray and Suggs having a good season.

[ravensdfan]

Hopefully, to rush more than 3 men. Especially on 3rd and long.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

I'm quite interested as to how well Jameel McClain will play this year. I was surprised when they tendered him so highly, but it's a clear indication that the coaches think very highly of him. For that reason, I think that it will be more difficult than ever for Ellerbe or Gooden to see an extended run of snaps.

[deathbird52]

Last year I noticed we didn't use all our LBs as much as we have in the past. Gooden was hurt so that took him out the equation and most fans believe Ellerbe should have had more after playing well as a rookie. Harbs had alot to do with that but I think Mattison only wanted to play the established vets most of the snaps. Old man Mattison also never allowed them to do what they do best. Ellerbe is a phenominal cover backer. I'd like to have seen him in coverage more last year istead of being stoned on a blitz. I also think Jameel could have been used better. He was an edge rusher coming out of Syracuse. I don't know if Mattison didn't knew what they could do or didn't want to know but he could have been more creative.

[PurpleReign92]

As for a second year rookie that hasn't taken the field yet. I hope kindle being so young and being put into a high performance defense doesn't expose his weaknesses to opposing offenses. Many other teams will take advantage of him on the left side where Johnson usually plays...

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

Hopefully Dannell Ellerbe gets a fair shot instead of the positions being assigned due to the short short off season that we have had to endure. I really think next to Ray and Suggs that Ellerbe is the best LB we have on the team right now. Hopefully Sergio can come out and change that but I still think Ellerbe is going to be a force if he can get some playing time.

As far as the implementation it all really depends on who we have healthy on how we choose to utilize our LB's but I would like to see them being more of an attacking unit than a aread and react unit more this year but that is just me. I know some people would rather see them just sit back and read and react, but that is just my opinion.

[ellicottraven]

I think we have a really good group of young LBs'. Forget about Ray, Suggs, Johnson and Ayanbadejo for a second. I am talking about McClain, Ellerbe, Gooden and Jason Philips. These guys are all really good football players and pretty hard hitters. So personally I think we are pretty deep at LB...

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='deathbird52' timestamp='1310223698' post='705299']
Last year I noticed we didn't use all our LBs as much as we have in the past. Gooden was hurt so that took him out the equation and most fans believe Ellerbe should have had more after playing well as a rookie. Harbs had alot to do with that but I think Mattison only wanted to play the established vets most of the snaps. [b]Old man Mattison also never allowed them to do what they do best. Ellerbe is a phenominal cover backer. I'd like to have seen him in coverage more last year istead of being stoned on a blitz. I also think Jameel could have been used better. He was an edge rusher coming out of Syracuse. I don't know if Mattison didn't knew what they could do or didn't want to know but he could have been more creative.[/b]
[/quote]

Ellerbe has made some nice plays in coverage during his short career but I wouldn't call him "phenomenal" in that regard.

Regarding McClain, I agree he should have been blitzed more, but Ellerbe being inactive for 5 games and Gooden missing 6 likely contributed to him being used in pass coverage often.

[quote name='PurpleReign92' timestamp='1310225971' post='705311']
As for a second year rookie that hasn't taken the field yet. I hope kindle being so young and being put into a high performance defense doesn't expose his weaknesses to opposing offenses. Many other teams will take advantage of him on the left side where Johnson usually plays...
[/quote]

If he's primarily asked to rush the QB, I don't see Kindle's weaknesses being exposed much.

[deathbird52]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1310235669' post='705385']
Ellerbe has made some nice plays in coverage during his short career but I wouldn't call him "phenomenal" in that regard.

Regarding McClain, I agree he should have been blitzed more, but Ellerbe being inactive for 5 games and Gooden missing 6 likely contributed to him being used in pass coverage often.



If he's primarily asked to rush the QB, I don't see Kindle's weaknesses being exposed much.
[/quote]


Calling him phenomenal was a bit strong, but he has played well at times. Maybe, this year everyone will be in positions that benefit the team.

[wayne]

I can see one of our young MLBs having like 7-8 sacks on the year ( McClain, Ellerbe, Gooden ) or they combine for 7-8 sacks +. Suggs should have another 12+ sacks year and one can only hope that Kindle chips in with like 7-10 sacks. I really would love to have one of our young MLBs to be able to stay on the field every down but if we use the rotation deal again, it needs to be only a two man rotation so the players can get more in the rythm of playiing possibly making more plays b/c of that ( Gooden may have to swallow some pride and just ride the pine for the most part ).

[PeRK82]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1310209912' post='705264']
I'm quite interested as to how well Jameel McClain will play this year. I was surprised when they tendered him so highly, but it's a clear indication that the coaches think very highly of him. For that reason, I think that it will be more difficult than ever for [b]Ellerbe[/b] or Gooden to see an extended run of snaps.
[/quote]

And thats the thing, i like Ellerbe a lot, and could have improved quite a bit more if , he wasnt in Harb.s dog house for most of the yr. for show boating in the pre season, yes it was kinda uncalled for but dont punish him for making a play that every linebacker or defensive player for that matter would Love to do. The man can play, let him loose and do his thing. He is usually where the ball is on every play. I am a Ellerbe fan without a doubt.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

Unless Ellerbe forgot how to play football he needs to be on the field... PERIOD.

[Ravensfan23]

Even though this guy's chances are probably slim to none of making the team, I'm really interested in seeing Albert McClellan, this preseason.

At 6'2 255, the guys is an explosive tank. I was really impressed with the progression he made last year as the preseason went on. You could tell making the move from D-line to OLB was new to him, but he had some bright spots.

There are certain guys on our roster who I don't think fit Mattison's style really well, and McClellan is one of them.

I think with Pagano's attacking style, McClellan could be a pass rushing assets for us. I'm talking only 1 or 2 sacks here, nothing special, but enough to get his feet wet and apply some QB pressures.

After Suggs, and hopefully Kindle, our pass rush from the OLB position really isn't anything to come close to getting excited about.

If the Ravens choose to work Kindle into the defense slowly, McClellan could see a lot of added snaps as a rush OLB in camp and preseason.

I picked him as my sleeper to make the final roster and I can't wait to see him showcase his talents this year.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1310270941' post='705585']
And thats the thing, i like Ellerbe a lot, and could have improved quite a bit more if , [b]he wasnt in Harb.s dog house for most of the yr. for show boating in the pre season, yes it was kinda uncalled for but dont punish him for making a play that every linebacker or defensive player for that matter would Love to do.[/b] The man can play, let him loose and do his thing. He is usually where the ball is on every play. I am a Ellerbe fan without a doubt.
[/quote]

He was inactive for five games. That's not "most of the year".

It's pretty funny that so many fans [i]still[/i] claim Ellerbe landed in the doghouse after he showboated when he wasn't inactive till mid-season, and reports about his attitude in camp have come out. I don't know what he did to be sat against Miami but the two penalties and loafing on a TD play against Atlanta likely led to him being inactive for the next four games.

I didn't agree with the length of his benching, but based on what I saw and read, it didn't seem completely unreasonable for either.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1310270941' post='705585']
And thats the thing, i like Ellerbe a lot, and could have improved quite a bit more if , he wasnt in Harb.s dog house for most of the yr. for show boating in the pre season, yes it was kinda uncalled for but dont punish him for making a play that every linebacker or defensive player for that matter would Love to do. The man can play, let him loose and do his thing. He is usually where the ball is on every play. I am a Ellerbe fan without a doubt.
[/quote]

Me too, but like you said, he's probably at the opposite end of the spectrum with regards to being a coaches favorite. As much as I agree that Ellerbe is a good player and could have the potential to grow and become a solid player for us, it seems ever less likely.

I think Gooden is on his very last chance to prove that he can do something worthwhile for this team otherwise he'll be shown the door.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

Suggs- A continuation of what we saw last season. It would be nice to have back-to-back double digit sack and Pro Bowl seasons.

Ray- I know Ray is instrumental to getting every one lined up and in place on obvious passing downs but I would love to see him blitz more. He is among the best MLB/ILB at Pressures per pass rush attempt and I think this would help mask any problems he has in coverage a bit. The problem is, someone else needs to step up at take over those coverage responsibilities.

Gooden- I wish he could be that guy I mention above but it doesn't seem like it will ever happen.

McClain- I think he is an average starter. Nothing more/nothing less. He does create some huge holes in the run game and makes me miss Bart a lot.

Ellerbe- Would love him to take over the Jack ILB spot next to Ray with McClain getting some snaps as well. He needs to get out of the dog house.

JJ- Just another solid season. I would like some more on the pass rushing end but he is not a huge worry for me.

Kindle- With JJ's sack numbers declining (not necessarily is pass rushing ability) I would love for Kindle to at least be able to play 3rd downs and get some pressure on the QB.

[T-ray]

I miss Bart a ton when I think about our LB's. He formed the perfect combo with Lewis with his aggression and passion for the game. However, when I think of Harbaugh, I see that the two would never have been able to co-exist. That alone makes me at least a little bit happier when I think about it, but it also is sad that Harbaugh can't stand showboaters who play their guts out and play with fire. But this is not the time or place to talk about Harbaugh, so here's my take:

Lewis- of course, he'll be the centerpiece once again, but truthfully, he has lost a step and is slipping in coverage as a result. I say we blitz him a little more often to mask the coverage deficiency, and use him as we've used him in the past: a leader/mentor.

Suggs- same as last year, I see him getting double digits once again, and another Pro Bowl. Hopefully Pagano does indeed use an attacking D.

Johnson- I see him sharing snaps with Kindle, and I don't see him making a huge difference for us in the pass rushing area once again this year. He is a great run defender, but not so much in the passing game.

McClain- He'll be the starter next to Lewis. I see only good things coming from him because its in my honest opinion that he's taken all the necessary steps to becoming better at his spot. I want him to blitz more often than cover though.

Kindle- I see him getting 5-6 sacks this year, and thats only because he hasn't had the needed time to get acclimated to the D or the NFL. Hopefully he stays healthy throughout his career, because he could be a beast in the making.

Ellerbe- he'll once again be in the doghouse, so he'll only get limited time. He'll get fed up with not playing enough snaps and want to leave next offseason. The guy is talented, but he lacks the mental stability/maturity for the team that Harbaugh requires of his players.

Gooden- another injury filled year, sad to say. He could've been a monster if he had stayed healthy early on in his career, but even when he's healthy, his progression was stunted to much for him to make a huge difference now. But thats just my opinion. Who knows what he could do if he stayed healthy and played with more aggression for 16 games.

This is just my take on the whole thing. Thanks for taking the time to read.

[The Raven]

I understand Ellerbe is a good LB, but some of these comments are over-rating him. He's solid, but he's not that great. He's nothing special. When you look at the stats, McClain did better than Ellerbe. He's better in the run. While I know he got off to a really bad start this past season against the run, he figured it out. After the bye week he really learned how to attack the line of scrimmage, and he was good. He provided some solid inside pass rush for the few times he had an opportunity. Coverage did nothign but improve. Imo, he's all around better than Ellerbe. I'm not saying Ellerbe's bad, I'm not saying McClain is light years better, I'm just saying, McClain is better at this point.

[The Raven]

Ray - Nuff said. But I unfortunately think, Ray will really slow down this year. I hoep he proves me wrong, but I have a bad feeling he's gonna have a drop off year. Not that he'll be bad, but i think he'll start to hurt more in coverage.

Mcclain - Starter. He's gonna be a beast this year, I'm callin it. I'm not sayin pro-bowl material, but he's gonna turn heads. He's worked for it.

Ellerbe - Well, I don't like him nearly as much as many people. I won't deny his aggression and coverage skills. Maybe, this is just a thought, he might spell Ray on a couple third downs. I dont wanna do that, but its an idea.

JJ - Great run defender, poor pass rusher, good in coverage. His role will start to decrease on the team, as Kindle takes snaps.

Kindle - Phenomenal rusher, solid run defender. Only question is can he recover from his head injury? He'll be at least a 3rd down rusher, maybe evolving into a larger role.

My under the radar linebacker... Jason Phillips or McClellan. Phillips is a good blitzer and a good run stopper, but we all know he's not a cover backer. McClellan was a good pass rusher in the James Harrison mold. I can't say he'll make an impact yet, but don't be surprised.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1310331280' post='705798']
I understand Ellerbe is a good LB, but some of these comments are over-rating him. He's solid, but he's not that great. He's nothing special. When you look at the stats, McClain did better than Ellerbe. He's better in the run. While I know he got off to a really bad start this past season against the run, he figured it out. After the bye week he really learned how to attack the line of scrimmage, and he was good. He provided some solid inside pass rush for the few times he had an opportunity. Coverage did nothign but improve. Imo, he's all around better than Ellerbe. I'm not saying Ellerbe's bad, I'm not saying McClain is light years better, I'm just saying, McClain is better at this point.
[/quote]

Stats don't tell the full story. McClain's tackle number were better because he was on the field a lot more. I agree with you that McClain improved as the year progressed, but I think everything you said McClain improved at, Ellerbe doesn't a a big more natural.

Ellerbe violently attacks the line when asked to blitz. He's above average in coverage as evidence by his coverage on Welker and Petterson back in 09.

To be honest, I don't think we can say who's better yet, because these guys rarely get to be on the field together.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1310332863' post='705814']
Stats don't tell the full story. McClain's tackle number were better because he was on the field a lot more. I agree with you that McClain improved as the year progressed, but I think everything you said McClain improved at, Ellerbe doesn't a a big more natural.

Ellerbe violently attacks the line when asked to blitz. He's above average in coverage as evidence by his coverage on Welker and Petterson back in 09.

To be honest, I don't think we can say who's better yet, because these guys rarely get to be on the field together.
[/quote]


I really do wanna see those two together on third down, I think they complement each other nicely.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1310331919' post='705806']
Ray - Nuff said. But I unfortunately think, Ray will really slow down this year. I hoep he proves me wrong, but I have a bad feeling he's gonna have a drop off year. Not that he'll be bad, but i think he'll start to hurt more in coverage.

Mcclain - Starter. He's gonna be a beast this year, I'm callin it. I'm not sayin pro-bowl material, but he's gonna turn heads. He's worked for it.

Ellerbe - Well, I don't like him nearly as much as many people. I won't deny his aggression and coverage skills. Maybe, this is just a thought, he might spell Ray on a couple third downs. I dont wanna do that, but its an idea.

JJ - Great run defender, poor pass rusher, good in coverage. His role will start to decrease on the team, as Kindle takes snaps.

Kindle - Phenomenal rusher, solid run defender. Only question is can he recover from his head injury? He'll be at least a 3rd down rusher, maybe evolving into a larger role.

My under the radar linebacker... Jason Phillips or McClellan. Phillips is a good blitzer and a good run stopper, but we all know he's not a cover backer. McClellan was a good pass rusher in the James Harrison mold. I can't say he'll make an impact yet, but don't be surprised.
[/quote]

I really like J. Phillips. Him getting hurt his rookie year really set him back, as he probably could be apart of the rotation between McClain and Ellerbe.

However it's fully healthy now and it's a make or break season for him. As you mentioned his a strong 1st and 2nd down LB, but the pass coverage isn't there.

I don't think he'll have to be great in pass coverage to make the team this year, just don't be a liability.

I said last season he would surprise in camp, and make the team over Gooden. I was half right.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1310333041' post='705817']
I really do wanna see those two together on third down, I think they complement each other nicely.
[/quote]

I think that's the biggest thing. They compliment each other really well. Actually that seems to be the theme of this team. Doss compliments Smith well, Pitta compliments Dickson well, etc.

But yea, they compliment each other really well. I don't see either guy as a Ray Lewis type. You know the heart and soul of our defense, but together they could be a really big part of the defense.

[deathbird52]

Prescott Burgess has always been a player that I wished would get more playing time. I enjoy watching him play in the preseason and in certain packages during regular season. I think he cuold make an impact with more playing time.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='deathbird52' timestamp='1310337756' post='705846']
Prescott Burgess has always been a player that I wished would get more playing time. I enjoy watching him play in the preseason and in certain packages during regular season. I think he cuold make an impact with more playing time.
[/quote]

I like Prescott coming out of Michigan, but I had a feeling it would take him a while to develop. I enjoy watching him in preseason as well, and think he'd be a really good back up here to Kindle.

However he'll have to get offered a contract to return as he's currently a free agent.

He's our leading Special Teams guy as well, so he might find his way back in a Ravens uniform.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='PurpleReign92' timestamp='1310358003' post='705920']
Cam was not that bad to begin with the reason I said this is because some how he attracted Talent.
I still remember when our Offense was rejected by TO... Now any offensive player in this league wouldn't mind suiting up in Purple and Black..... Long live the ravens Offense!!!!
[/quote]

Wow even a thread about the Linebackers produces comments about Cam. I'm really done with that topic now. lol

[BloodRaven]

There is a perception that Suggs is an OLB in a 3-4, but 54% of our defensive snaps are in the 4-3 with Suggs line up at DE, he also takes more snaps (23%) as a 3 front DE than he does at 3-4 OLB (17%). That means our base 4-3 LB corps are JJ on the strongside, Ray in the middle and probably McClain at weakside.

McClain is interesting though, as a 4-3 weakside/will backer he probably doesn't have elite range or coverage ability but is probably no worse than anyone else on the roster, he also gained weight and strength in the offseason but more on that later. Other options at weakside are Tavares Gooden who has pure speed yet struggles with game speed and Ellerbe who has similar or slightly less physical ability than McClain but has shown flashes of the instincts you want from a linebacker.

Now you could argue that Cody/Kindle were drafted with an eye to being 4-3 linemen as much as for their 3-4 potential, especially considering that the position of ILB hasn't been a focus of our draft despite the departure of Bart Scott and Ray's age, but I think there is another reason why a 3-4 or even 46 would work after Ray. If you'll remember back a few years ago when Bart Scott was our Jack LB (ILB in Rex's 3-4 were Mike and Jack) he was basically Ray's bodyguard and would hammer the lead blocker so Ray could make the tackles, ideally you want both players at the 3-4 ILB position to do the same thing and disguise their assignments but McClain lacks the instincts and in recent years Ray has mostly been kept clean so his physical decline could be managed/minimised.

Which brings me back to Ellerbe, he's someone who needs "get it" fast and grow out of whatever silliness put him in the doghouse because he has rare instincts, he's not super fast, strong or big but neither was Ray, don't get me wrong, nobody is asking him to be Ray he needs to be ready to step into that Mike LB spot and own it, and McClain with his reckless rush mentality and increased size/strength can clear the way like Scott once did.

#intheory

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1310583532' post='707117']
There is a perception that Suggs is an OLB in a 3-4, but 54% of our defensive snaps are in the 4-3 with Suggs line up at DE, he also takes more snaps (23%) as a 3 front DE than he does at 3-4 OLB (17%). That means our base 4-3 LB corps are JJ on the strongside, Ray in the middle and probably McClain at weakside.

McClain is interesting though, as a 4-3 weakside/will backer he probably doesn't have elite range or coverage ability but is probably no worse than anyone else on the roster, [b]he also gained weight and strength in the offseason but more on that later[/b]. Other options at weakside are Tavares Gooden who has pure speed yet struggles with game speed and Ellerbe who has similar or slightly less physical ability than McClain but has shown flashes of the instincts you want from a linebacker.

Now you could argue that Cody/Kindle were drafted with an eye to being 4-3 linemen as much as for their 3-4 potential, especially considering that the position of ILB hasn't been a focus of our draft despite the departure of Bart Scott and Ray's age, but I think there is another reason why a 3-4 or even 46 would work after Ray. If you'll remember back a few years ago when Bart Scott was our Jack LB (ILB in Rex's 3-4 were Mike and Jack) he was basically Ray's bodyguard and would hammer the lead blocker so Ray could make the tackles, ideally you want both players at the 3-4 ILB position to do the same thing and disguise their assignments but McClain lacks the instincts and in recent years Ray has mostly been kept clean so his physical decline could be managed/minimised.

Which brings me back to Ellerbe, he's someone who needs "get it" fast and grow out of whatever silliness put him in the doghouse because he has rare instincts, [b]he's not super fast, strong or big but neither was Ray[/b], don't get me wrong, nobody is asking him to be Ray he needs to be ready to step into that Mike LB spot and own it, and McClain with his reckless rush mentality and increased size/strength can clear the way like Scott once did.

#intheory
[/quote]

You made some great points Blood but there are two I disagree with.

Jameel has actually [i]lost[/i] weight, going from between 255-260 pounds he played last season to 244. [url="http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/sports/ravens/ravens-lb-rock-solid-thanks-to-conditioning-program/article_397b9d0a-a071-11e0-b956-001cc4c002e0.html"]Link[/url]

And as for Ray, he was ridiculously fast during his prime.