Cam Cameron Bashing

[JO_75]

I know I was one who was on the "Fire Cam" Bandwagon but now looking back at things, I'm glad we kept him. Aside from guys like Torrey Smith and Tandon Doss getting a playbook, we are going to be one of the teams ready to come out of the gate swinging. Other teams hired new HCs, OCs, DCs and haven't been able to distribute playbooks and will be behind. If we had fired Cam, we certainly would be one of the teams behind in terms of playbook knowledge.

With that said, I'll be happy with Cam if he takes advantage of the new weapons in Torrey Smith and Tandon Doss and most importantly, doesn't get TOO conservative. You guys know me from the game threads where I always say kill the clock, I'm fine with that kind of conservative if it's the 4th Quarter to keep it away from the other team and we can score in the process but not conservative like almost giving away the game against the Texans and giving the game away in Pittsburgh when the Ravens FINALLY had them BEAT.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Free Agent' timestamp='1310346463' post='705888']
I know I have posted this video in countless other threads, but it bears reposting. The key portion is at 00:30 when Brian Baldinger points out the playcalling as the key contributing factor to the Ravens' loss.

[media]http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-playoffs/09000d5d81dc54a7/Playbook-Ravens-vs-Steelers-recap[/media]
[/quote]

I really don't wanna jump back into the whole Cam Cameron thing, as I feel everything about him on both sides have been said. All we can do is hope for the best now.

However pretty much everything he pointed out is exactly the opposite of what a lot of the Cam haters have been saying. Cam doesn't stay aggressive in the second half, Cam doesn't use Stallworth, Cam doesn't send Boldin in motion, Cam doesn't use the Deep In route. He also asks why the Ravens are trying to attack the Steelers defense? Really?

On that first play he broke down. It was the same play that the Ravens took advantage of the Steelers defense twice in the same game back in the regular season. Once with Boldin down the seams and the other with Stallworth down the sideline.

On that play Stallworth had his man beat down the sideline with the safety in the middle of the field. If Flacco looked that way it would have been a big play and no complaints.

Also on the same play, Mason got well behind his man at the top of the field, Heap beat Polamalu to the inside and the deep Safety was shading towards Dickson, which means if Flacco hit Heap in stride, it would have been a completion and maybe more with a broken tackle.

The real problem on that play was that Ben Grubbs got jacked up and pushed back into Flacco and he didn't have time to go through his progressions.

Actually everybody on that play was open expect for Rice and Dickson, Flacco just didn't have time. If he's given a second more, It's probably a TD to Mason, because he was already looking to that side of the field.

I don't agree with that breakdown. I do agree with the Heap INT, although Flacco has to be smart enough to throw it out of bounds if he doesn't think he can make the play.

On the second play he broke down, you could blame Cam for the blocking scheme, but McClain has to man up and not try to cut block. You're not a undersized RB, you're a 6'0 260 pound FB, step up put your face in his chest and block the dude. That's one of my main issues with McClain, he too often thinks like a RB, instead of a smash mouth FB.

If McClain actually helps with the block, Mason was running a deep in on the back side that would have come open because Heap took away both LBs in the middle of the field.

Unfortunately, those two plays that resulted in sacks, are just 2 more examples of how our guys came up short in the physicality battle against the Steelers. Which seems to happen way too often.

[ellicottraven]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1310359536' post='705926']
I really don't wanna jump back into the whole Cam Cameron thing, as I feel everything about him on both sides have been said. All we can do is hope for the best now.

However pretty much everything he pointed out is exactly the opposite of what a lot of the Cam haters have been saying. Cam doesn't stay aggressive in the second half, Cam doesn't use Stallworth, Cam doesn't send Boldin in motion, Cam doesn't use the Deep In route. He also asks why the Ravens are trying to attack the Steelers defense? Really?

On that first play he broke down. It was the same play that the Ravens took advantage of the Steelers defense twice in the same game back in the regular season. Once with Boldin down the seams and the other with Stallworth down the sideline.

On that play Stallworth had his man beat down the sideline with the safety in the middle of the field. If Flacco looked that way it would have been a big play and no complaints.

Also on the same play, Mason got well behind his man at the top of the field, Heap beat Polamalu to the inside and the deep Safety was shading towards Dickson, which means if Flacco hit Heap in stride, it would have been a completion and maybe more with a broken tackle.

The real problem on that play was that Ben Grubbs got jacked up and pushed back into Flacco and he didn't have time to go through his progressions.

Actually everybody on that play was open expect for Rice and Dickson, Flacco just didn't have time. If he's given a second more, It's probably a TD to Mason, because he was already looking to that side of the field.

I don't agree with that breakdown. I do agree with the Heap INT, although Flacco has to be smart enough to throw it out of bounds if he doesn't think he can make the play.

On the second play he broke down, you could blame Cam for the blocking scheme, but McClain has to man up and not try to cut block. You're not a undersized RB, you're a 6'0 260 pound FB, step up put your face in his chest and block the dude. That's one of my main issues with McClain, he too often thinks like a RB, instead of a smash mouth FB.

If McClain actually helps with the block, Mason was running a deep in on the back side that would have come open because Heap took away both LBs in the middle of the field.

Unfortunately, those two plays that resulted in sacks, are just 2 more examples of how our guys came up short in the physicality battle against the Steelers. Which seems to happen way too often.
[/quote]

I hear your point about Cam Cameron and the variety of ways he has been cut up, opened up, operated on and sewn back up with perhaps a few internal organs still missing!

I like your analysis a lot better than some lousy pundits. Good work!

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1310360112' post='705927']
I hear your point about Cam Cameron and the variety of ways he has been cut up, opened up, operated on and sewn back up with perhaps a few internal organs still missing!
[b]
I like your analysis a lot better than some lousy pundits. Good work![/b]
[/quote]

Thanks. I just try to give my views of what I saw on a play, and see how it differs from others.

That first play he broke down really ticked me off watching it live, and it still does watching it now.

At that point in the game we had a 21-7 lead(not 24-7 as Baldi said) and the defense had just got a big sack. I thought we really missed a great opportunity to put the Steelers away early.

I thought the play call and timing was actually perfect. We caught them in single high Safety, and all 4 WRS had got behind their men. If Flacco had a second more to take his eyes off Rice and look down field, it would have been a TD.

Score would have been 28-7, our moral would have been high, their's low, and their fans would have definitely turned on them with boos.

Instead the play resulted in a sack, put us in 2nd and long and ultimately lead to the fumble that changed the game.

But what's done is done i guess.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Free Agent' timestamp='1310346463' post='705888']
I know I have posted this video in countless other threads, but it bears reposting. The key portion is at 00:30 when Brian Baldinger points out the playcalling as the key contributing factor to the Ravens' loss.

[media]http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-playoffs/09000d5d81dc54a7/Playbook-Ravens-vs-Steelers-recap[/media]
[/quote]

What makes that even more damning is the fact that the talking heads almost never call out OC.

Glad it's out there now for everyone to hear.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1310370121' post='705940']
What makes that even more damning is the fact that the talking heads almost never call out OC.

Glad it's out there now for everyone to hear.
[/quote]

Do you really wanna hitch your Cam Sucks wagon to Brain Baldinger?

I expect more from you Fly. lol

[Ravens Beast]

Having Cam Cameron as your OC is worse than getting cancer!!

[ellicottraven]

[quote name='Ravens Beast' timestamp='1310388500' post='705953']
Having Cam Cameron as your OC is worse than getting cancer!!
[/quote]


Now that you have concluded that it is worse than getting cancer, just tell me if it is benign or malignant form when you have a moment...

[Free Agent]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1310370121' post='705940']
What makes that even more damning is the fact that the talking heads almost never call out OC.

Glad it's out there now for everyone to hear.
[/quote]

Exactly. When the offensive coordinator is called out, its clear that there was a noticeable issue with his playcalling. As Baldinger pointed out, Cam put Flacco in "some tough situations." As a playcaller, you would never want to do that to your QB or your offense. Baldinger's analysis made me even more disappointed in the playcalls Cam made in the second half of that game.

[Free Agent]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1310359536' post='705926']
I really don't wanna jump back into the whole Cam Cameron thing, as I feel everything about him on both sides have been said. All we can do is hope for the best now.

However pretty much everything he pointed out is exactly the opposite of what a lot of the Cam haters have been saying. Cam doesn't stay aggressive in the second half, Cam doesn't use Stallworth, Cam doesn't send Boldin in motion, Cam doesn't use the Deep In route. He also asks why the Ravens are trying to attack the Steelers defense? Really?

On that first play he broke down. It was the same play that the Ravens took advantage of the Steelers defense twice in the same game back in the regular season. Once with Boldin down the seams and the other with Stallworth down the sideline.

On that play Stallworth had his man beat down the sideline with the safety in the middle of the field. If Flacco looked that way it would have been a big play and no complaints.

Also on the same play, Mason got well behind his man at the top of the field, Heap beat Polamalu to the inside and the deep Safety was shading towards Dickson, which means if Flacco hit Heap in stride, it would have been a completion and maybe more with a broken tackle.

The real problem on that play was that Ben Grubbs got jacked up and pushed back into Flacco and he didn't have time to go through his progressions.

Actually everybody on that play was open expect for Rice and Dickson, Flacco just didn't have time. If he's given a second more, It's probably a TD to Mason, because he was already looking to that side of the field.

I don't agree with that breakdown. I do agree with the Heap INT, although Flacco has to be smart enough to throw it out of bounds if he doesn't think he can make the play.

On the second play he broke down, you could blame Cam for the blocking scheme, but McClain has to man up and not try to cut block. You're not a undersized RB, you're a 6'0 260 pound FB, step up put your face in his chest and block the dude. That's one of my main issues with McClain, he too often thinks like a RB, instead of a smash mouth FB.

If McClain actually helps with the block, Mason was running a deep in on the back side that would have come open because Heap took away both LBs in the middle of the field.

Unfortunately, those two plays that resulted in sacks, are just 2 more examples of how our guys came up short in the physicality battle against the Steelers. Which seems to happen way too often.
[/quote]

You can try to blame the lack of offensive production on the players, but the fact of the matter is Cam took his foot off the gas in the second half. The offense played a great first half, but then melted down in the second half? I think poor playcalling is a more beliveable excuse. The Ravens offense SHOULD have been able to earn more than three first downs in the entire second half! Cam showed yet again he doesnt know how to create a lead, and then maintain it.

[Ravens Beast]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1310390650' post='705956']
Now that you have concluded that it is worse than getting cancer, just tell me if it is benign or malignant form when you have a moment...
[/quote]
It was actually just a joke

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1310370546' post='705941']<br />Do you really wanna hitch your Cam Sucks wagon to Brain Baldinger?<br /><br />I expect more from you Fly. lol<br />[/quote]

ha! That was my first thought too - Baldinger sometimes says off the wall stuff.

But perception is everything; we have no problems with him promoting our agenda in front of millions. So what if he's a french shower bag? Most people dont realize it!

[flynismo]

Actually I take that back about Baldinger. He pointed out something I never noticed the first time around- having our backs chip Harrison.He seems to be a solid X and O kinda guy. He just has some really weird opinions.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Free Agent' timestamp='1310392826' post='705966']
You can try to blame the lack of offensive production on the players, but the fact of the matter is Cam took his foot off the gas in the second half. The offense played a great first half, but then melted down in the second half? I think poor playcalling is a more beliveable excuse. The Ravens offense SHOULD have been able to earn more than three first downs in the entire second half! Cam showed yet again he doesnt know how to create a lead, and then maintain it.
[/quote]

So Cam took his foot off the pedal because he ran 4 WRs tried to attack the Steelers deep, had guys running open but Grubbs couldn't handle a one on one block, long enough for Flacco to at least look at an 2nd option?

By that breakdown of Baldy alone, Cam took his foot off the pedal because he called a playaction pass on 1st down, that didn't work because McClain decided to cut block like he's a 6'0 192 pound RB, instead of a 6'0 260 FB?

Cam took his foot off the pedal because he called a pass play on 1st and 10 from the 10 yardline after 2 straight turnovers?

As I said in my post, Baldy's breakdown actually speaks to the exact opposite of what some of the main issues you guys have with Cam.

You watched that video and agreed with Baldy, yet his whole point is that Cam played the 3rd quarter too aggressively with the kind of defense we have. While you're point is that Cam took his foot off the pedal. How does that fit together?

But I guess it doesn't matter what side you are on, when someone else can show why Cam is either good or bad, it justifies your stance. Even when you are saying the complete opposite of the person.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1310400690' post='706012']
ha! That was my first thought too - Baldinger sometimes says off the wall stuff.

But perception is everything; we have no problems with him promoting our agenda in front of millions. So what if he's a french shower bag? Most people dont realize it!
[/quote]

Yea, they say if you hold onto public perception long enough that it becomes reality.

I just hope this organization doesn't ever resort to making decisions for this team based on public perception.

I remember Mark Schlereth looked into the camera and spoke to millions of people on Draft Day back in 2006 and said Ngata would be a bust because he's too lazy.

I'm glad that public perception didn't turn into reality.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1310403369' post='706035']
Yea, they say if you hold onto public perception long enough that it becomes reality.

I just hope this organization doesn't ever resort to making decisions for this team based on public perception.

I remember Mark Schlereth looked into the camera and spoke to millions of people on Draft Day back in 2006 and said Ngata would be a bust because he's too lazy.

I'm glad that public perception didn't turn into reality.
[/quote]


I will say this, Don't get me wrong I am a GIGANTIC fan of Ngata, but he did hold out, which almost had me thinking he may have been right. Although now that he has learned how to be a pro I will say I am more than glad he is on our time.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1310404137' post='706046']
I will say this, Don't get me wrong I am a GIGANTIC fan of Ngata, but he did hold out, which almost had me thinking he may have been right. Although now that he has learned how to be a pro I will say I am more than glad he is on our team.
[/quote]

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1310404137' post='706046']
I will say this, Don't get me wrong I am a GIGANTIC fan of Ngata, but he did hold out, which almost had me thinking he may have been right. Although now that he has learned how to be a pro I will say I am more than glad he is on our time.
[/quote]

naw you don't hold out because you're lazy, not sure how that would go over with teammates. He held out because he as the Ravens traded up to make him the 12 pick instead of the 13, but the contract offer didn't match the contract that the 12 overall pick received in 2005.

I remember back to that draft. I think the Ozzie bashing was about as heavy as the Cam bashing. People thinking Ozzie got had by Phil because he made Ozzie trade up for Ngata. People thought Cleveland was better off with Phil then we were with Ozzie.

It got pretty bad. But like you, I'm glad Ngata is on our team.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1310404992' post='706055']
naw you don't hold out because you're lazy, not sure how that would go over with teammates. He held out because he as the Ravens traded up to make him the 12 pick instead of the 13, but the contract offer didn't match the contract that the 12 overall pick received in 2005.

I remember back to that draft. I think the Ozzie bashing was about as heavy as the Cam bashing. People thinking Ozzie got had by Phil because he made Ozzie trade up for Ngata. People thought Cleveland was better off with Phil then we were with Ozzie.

It got pretty bad. But like you, I'm glad Ngata is on our team.
[/quote]

Ok Yeah does not mean lazy, however I will say that when I hear of a rookie holding out the only things that go through my mind are the worst and that includes lazy. When he did that I was thinking great we drafted one of the few prima donna's in this franchise. I was thinking great we drafted him at 12 and he is already a headache.

However the only comfort was that we did have Ozzie.

[ellicottraven]

[quote name='Ravens Beast' timestamp='1310396785' post='705987']
It was actually just a joke
[/quote]

10-4 - I know. It seems like I have lost my sense of humor lately!

[Mahatma_Sloth]

This thread should be titled how much do you hate your winning team.... i remember when we used to be just average, those were the days. No one cared about what the OC did then

[Free Agent]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1310402908' post='706031']
So Cam took his foot off the pedal because he ran 4 WRs tried to attack the Steelers deep, had guys running open but Grubbs couldn't handle a one on one block, long enough for Flacco to at least look at an 2nd option?

By that breakdown of Baldy alone, Cam took his foot off the pedal because he called a playaction pass on 1st down, that didn't work because McClain decided to cut block like he's a 6'0 192 pound RB, instead of a 6'0 260 FB?

Cam took his foot off the pedal because he called a pass play on 1st and 10 from the 10 yardline after 2 straight turnovers?

As I said in my post, Baldy's breakdown actually speaks to the exact opposite of what some of the main issues you guys have with Cam.

You watched that video and agreed with Baldy, yet his whole point is that Cam played the 3rd quarter too aggressively with the kind of defense we have. While you're point is that Cam took his foot off the pedal. How does that fit together?

But I guess it doesn't matter what side you are on, when someone else can show why Cam is either good or bad, it justifies your stance. Even when you are saying the complete opposite of the person.
[/quote]

Baldinger only pointed out three second half plays, and I agree that they were aggressive playcalls which were poorly executed by the offense. However, Cam made many playcalls in the second half that were just sloppy, and those plays indicated that Cam was not doing a good job managing the lead. And the plays that Cam did call that were aggressive were either poorly executed, or called at the wrong time.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1310401575' post='706019']
Actually I take that back about Baldinger. He pointed out something I never noticed the first time around- having our backs chip Harrison.He seems to be a solid X and O kinda guy. He just has some really weird opinions.
[/quote]

Yea Baldy is a pretty good X and O's guy, and much like everyone on that Network he has his moments.

I still think what stood out the most was McClain deciding to cut block like he's an undersized RB. I'm sure that wasn't part of the plan.

I'll agree that having backs chip Harrison isn't the best plan, but at the same time, McClain has to at least attempt to block the guy. Now if McClain steps up and gets steam rolled by Harrison, then I'd be like...Man Cam really put him in a bad spot.

As a FB, that's what you do, block LBs. Who cares how good they are.

Could you ever see Ray Lewis getting mad because he had to take on Nick Mango 1 on 1 and that was his excuse for not making the tackle?

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Free Agent' timestamp='1310418595' post='706141']
Baldinger only pointed out three second half plays, and I agree that they were aggressive playcalls which were poorly executed by the offense. However, Cam made many playcalls in the second half that were just sloppy, and those plays indicated that Cam was not doing a good job managing the lead. And the plays that Cam did call that were aggressive were either poorly executed, or called at the wrong time.
[/quote]

No play caller is ever prefect. But we only ran 9 plays in the 3rd quarter. Each one of those plays that you just said were poorly executed, came on 1st down. That means on 2nd down, the offense was put in a 2nd and long situation. Baldy said Cam put the players in bad positions, but I think it was the other way around.

Not given Flacco time on 1st down to actually complete passes to open WRs on 1st downs, tied Cam's hands as a play caller on 2nd and long.

Then the players compounded the poor execution with mental mistakes. Rice fumbles, Birks snap the ball while Flacco is in the middle of signaling a motion, and Flacco forces the ball down field on 1st down when he could have threw the ball out of bounds.

After we actually got back to executing in the 4th quarter we started moving the ball again. We all know what happened after that, with the Boldin and Housh drops.

But as for that second half, I can't place the sole blame on Cam, nor can I place it solely on the players executing. It was a overall team thing and that has to improve, not just Cam.

However on that first play he broke down. If Grubbs actually blocks his man, Flacco has time to look down field to one of his 3 WRs who were open. That play probably results in a TD and the score would be 28-7. Who would have had a problem with that?

But by the same token, if Cam called a better play, Grubbs still gets beat, because it was a basic 4 man rush, and he had the guy one on one.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1310335367' post='705833']
So what do you think he would do worse, no i dont buy it. A QB has to at the very least get along with the O.C which i dont think is the case. We all know Flacco liked and respected Zorn,
Honestly i wouldnt want Zorn to be the O.C but given the circumstance with the Lock out and a new O.C coming in late probably woundnt be a good idea either, it would be the best choice for Zorn to be upgraded to O.C if the Cam was canned. Zorn knew the playbook, and i really do believe the play-calling would have been better. Zorn from what i remember was forced to be H.C, he was first hired to be just the O.C.

I really really hope im wrong about Cam not producing this yr, but his record shows different. We will leave it at that i guess. I never said things would be fine and dandy with him gone but wouldn't it be exciting to know we have a new O.C and a new/different gameplan. Im very optimistic wit are Defense and would love to have the same outlook for our Offense, i am a little optimistic for a Offense with the addition of T. Smith and T.Doss, also Our O line getting back to normal or lets just say Better.

I for one wanted J. McDaniels to be the O.C, and will be very bitter if the RAMS would be called the greatest show on turf again this season coming up, We all know i don't like Cam and alot of people on this forum don't, that's a given. This is Cams last chance and if are offense is doing poorly in the first few games, ill be honest with you. I want him gone on the spot, not next yr.
Yes it might not be the smartest move but heck, it'll be a change and that i think would jump start the offense. Hopefully Childress would still be avalible .

Look how pumped up are Defense is that we have a new D.C that is Respected and well liked. I don't think Cam is liked or respected for that matter in the locker room.
[/quote]

Unless their bond equaled more consistent play from Joe, more separation from the WRs, and better run blocking and pass protection, Joe getting along better with Zorn than he does with Cam wouldn't have guaranteed a better offense.

Again, Zorn knowing the play-book would have meant squat had he been promoted. He more than likely would have wanted to run his own offense(likely a West Coast one), as opposed to Cam's Air Coryell-inspired system.

As good as Braford is, and as good an offensive mind as McDaniels is, I highly doubt the Rams reclaim their "Greatest Show on Turf" moniker this upcoming season with the talent they have on offense.

If the offense struggles early next season, I'm confident the organization will make the right adjustments and moves. Change just for the sake of change doesn't seem like one of them though.

Cam doesn't have to be liked among the players. I won't speculate on whether he's respected because that's another issue. As long as he, Harbaugh and whoever else is working on the offense can get back to a man blocking run scheme and create better plays, and the players step up, I'll be happy.

[Free Agent]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1310420466' post='706153']
No play caller is ever prefect. But we only ran 9 plays in the 3rd quarter. Each one of those plays that you just said were poorly executed, came on 1st down. That means on 2nd down, the offense was put in a 2nd and long situation. Baldy said Cam put the players in bad positions, but I think it was the other way around.

Not given Flacco time on 1st down to actually complete passes to open WRs on 1st downs, tied Cam's hands as a play caller on 2nd and long.

Then the players compounded the poor execution with mental mistakes. Rice fumbles, Birks snap the ball while Flacco is in the middle of signaling a motion, and Flacco forces the ball down field on 1st down when he could have threw the ball out of bounds.

After we actually got back to executing in the 4th quarter we started moving the ball again. We all know what happened after that, with the Boldin and Housh drops.

But as for that second half, I can't place the sole blame on Cam, nor can I place it solely on the players executing. It was a overall team thing and that has to improve, not just Cam.

However on that first play he broke down. If Grubbs actually blocks his man, Flacco has time to look down field to one of his 3 WRs who were open. That play probably results in a TD and the score would be 28-7. Who would have had a problem with that?

But by the same token, if Cam called a better play, Grubbs still gets beat, because it was a basic 4 man rush, and he had the guy one on one.
[/quote]

I agree that the blame cannot be placed solely on Cam or solely on the players. I do feel that the majority of the blame should be placed on Cam for his poor playcalling, but I also realize that the players made several mistakes as well, such as turning the ball over three times in the second half. Cam has had good games, but there are games such as that one that show that he often struggles to call effective plays and maintain leads.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Free Agent' timestamp='1310428523' post='706195']
I agree that the blame cannot be placed solely on Cam or solely on the players. I do feel that the majority of the blame should be placed on Cam for his poor playcalling, but I also realize that the players made several mistakes as well, such as turning the ball over three times in the second half. Cam has had good games, but there are games such as that one that show that he often struggles to call effective plays and maintain leads.
[/quote]

I won't argue that, as I've said before, I'm done, the 10' season is done and hopefully there's a new season in a couple months.

We clearly don't agree on the Steelers game and probably never will. He tries to stay aggressive, the plays actually produce open WRs, but the overall execution is bad.

If he just calls for nothing but running plays and short pass, and puts the game on the defenses back, people will say he was too conservative and didn't stay aggressive long enough to win the game.

So I'll just leave it at, we win and lose as a team and hopefully next season will be better. Regardless of who's responsible for it.

[flynismo]

If I hear Air Coryell one more time, I'm going to hurl. I prefer the modern, generic term for it, a 'vertical offense'.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1310432389' post='706216']
If I hear Air Coryell one more time, I'm going to hurl. I prefer the modern, generic term for it, a 'vertical offense'.
[/quote]

Thank you, back when Don Coryell came up with that a 6'0" receiver was a big target you had your occasional 6'4" guys but that was the exception not the rule.

They rarely saw guys who were of the Fitz, Megatron, The Natural, V-Jax, Rice, and Moss type players if ever.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1310448482' post='706306']<br />Thank you, back when Don Coryell came up with that a 6'0&quot; receiver was a big target you had your occasional 6'4&quot; guys but that was the exception not the rule.<br /><br />They rarely saw guys who were of the Fitz, Megatron, The Natural, V-Jax, Rice, and Moss type players if ever.<br />[/quote]


yeah, I blame it's success on teams drafting guys like Heyward-Bey so early. Teams start focusing too much on measurables and not enough on talent.