Cam Cameron Bashing

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='PurpleReign92' timestamp='1310235739' post='705388']
I agree, I do think that during training camp and after the lockout if people, fans are not excited then maybe Ozzie and Harb's will make the call to possibly place in a new OC. The reason is the Owners and organization are going to try and keep the fans happy rooting for there teams and in the stands and seat when it comes game time...
If I can collect enough cash maybe you may see me at one of the games, probably the Monday Night ESPN prime time game against the Skins...
[/quote]

I am not sure that they will get rid of him just to appease fans, as they shouldn't because, if Cam starts winning then I am not going to let his first 2 years keep me from rooting for my team on their way to a 1st place finish on offense and SB championship.

Point in case Barry Switzer people in Dallas though that guy was as stupid a head coach as you had ever seen, but nobody was complaining when the Lombardi was in Dallas.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1310234125' post='705374']
It is a very subjective play, I can 100 percent say that.

With the way everything played out though I would have still rather seen more of the route tree utilized.

A lot of people want to complain about our O-line and their inconsistency well against the Jets very talented defense I am not sure why we would try to max protect when their specialty is getting after the passer, when we can put those Lb's in some uncomfortable situations having to cover guys that they have no shot at covering, I think that would have been a far better game plan in that situation.

And I am not sure I would say we whooped them in man to man, Heap made a spectacular catch that I would not want him to have to make again, and there were some other's like housh but that was against a rookie CB, which is why I said we should have spread them out instead of trying to block and extremely talented form seven when it comes to harassing Qb's
[/quote]

To wrap up the play. You have double post routes to attack the single high safety in the middle of the field.

Then you have a out and up to take advantage of a mismatch that Heap has on the other safety.

If Boldin runs the correct route, which I think he didn't, you feel he did, and the play results in a TD, what would u have done different?

As for defeating their blitz, the Ravens did both. Spread out the defense and max protected.

On that particular play, we wanted to play off our tendency to be a power run team. We sent out a power running personnel and the Jets defense matched up with it best they could. We sent out 2TE, 2WR and a FB. Then said in their base defense and as a result we created a mismatch with Heap being lined up on a Safety.

I'm just not seeing what more you could have asked for out of that play, except for better execution.

[PurpleReign92]

Sometimes a perfectly executed designed route is disturbed because of the players actions and not the playbook.
When Housh dropped that pass it was his own mistake the route was fine and the ball was placed perfectly he just dropped it and that basically ended our playoffs..

[CapoRocky]

I think that Cam will be gone after 5 or 6 games if there isn't a vast improvement. We have the offensive weapons. Man up, Cam! No more excuses.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1310242980' post='705419']
I think that Cam will be gone after 5 or 6 games if there isn't a vast improvement. We have the offensive weapons. Man up, Cam! No more excuses.
[/quote]
Pretty sure we will not get rid of our OC 1/3 way thru the season....just an opinion, but one I feel pretty confident about.

[Militant X 1]

-ultra conservative and predictable play calling
-improper use of the offensive personel
-refusing to allow Flacco to audible when he sees blitzes etc.

yep! i'd say the Cam bashing is about right!

~Mili

[PeRK82]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1310170678' post='705111']
Again, we're not a pass first team, we're a run first team.

Just like the chargers and the steelers. Mainly because of our division.

And changing systems for a 3rd year quarterback during a lockout and on a super bowl run would have been foolish.

Everyone hates their OC.
[/quote]

Sorry but im sick of hearing we a are a run first offense, the run first isnt working, lets throw the ball, what was the point of getting all this wr talent then. The whole league knows we are goin to run the ball thats why, their defenses secondary is no more than 20 yds back including the safety, by the way , Flaccos going into his 4 yr, time to let his hand go and either sink or swim. I like him but with Cam being around their will always be a scape goat. Back when the lock out was coming i could understand on not making a coaching change but guess what we pretty much got rid of every coach on a staff except Cam, Also we could have just got rid of Cam and bumped Zorn to O.C, its obvious that Flacco felt more at ease with Zorn anyways.

Zorn got a bad rap on being the coach for the Redskins but guess what , he wasnt supposed to be the coach, he was supposed to be the O.C and they upgraded him to the Coach, thats alot of added pressure especially when it wasnt expected.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1310175912' post='705157']
McDaniels wasnt really available...st louis hired him right after the reg season was over. I think he would have made sense, but with the offseason uncertainty I am glad we kept Cam. Installing a new offense in a lockout is a terrible idea.

[b]If the offense doesn't improve, there is no way Cam is kept another year. I'm pretty confident it will get better tho[/b].
[/quote]

Agreed but we didnt have to fire everyone else on the coaching staff either, and like i said in my other post, we could have just got rid of him (CAM) and bump ZORN up to O.C, he pretty much knew the system and what was and wasnt working. And really doubt he couldnt do any worse. Yea we all know our O LINE was mess up, but there could have been made changes, atleast better ones.

I think there is a lot of crap going on behind the curtain that we as fans dont know, because there has got to be some explanations for alot of the crap that is outraging us as fans.
That or our front office has no clue what is going on, i like to think the latter.



Oh and by the way, I will be livid if Mcdaniels blows up the Rams offense, we could have gotten him if we wanted to. It wouldnt have been that hard to talk him into coming here instead of the Rams, i mean come on, we are in the play offs every yr (knock on wood, bite my tongue) and we sure as heck have alot more talent than the RAMS

But like you said, if the offense dosnt improve, Cam wont be here , which is a given. But who the heck wants to wait Another yr for him to get the boot. Than Harbs. will be in the Hot Seat when he is gone.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1310261381' post='705531']
Agreed but we didnt have to fire everyone else on the coaching staff either, and like i said in my other post, [b]we could have just got rid of him (CAM) and bump ZORN up to O.C, he pretty much knew the system and what was and wasnt working. And really doubt he couldnt do any worse. Yea we all know our O LINE was mess up, but there could have been made changes, atleast better ones.[/b]
[/quote]

Zorn runs a completely different system than the one Cam runs. What sense would it have made to promote him with the lockout looming and little time to implement his playbook?

[PeRK82]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1310245569' post='705444']
Pretty sure we will not get rid of our OC 1/3 way thru the season....just an opinion, but one I feel pretty confident about.
[/quote]

Well it is possible, Billick did it and we made it to the play offs after that, because Billick was on the Hot seat and knew his job was on the line (and he was very good friends with the O.C)(sound fimilar,lolol), Cam realizes that he is gone after this yr if he doesnt produce, butt buddies with harbs. or not) if our Offense isn't ranked in the top 10 or scoring atleast 21 points a game (points dont matter but do look good). Just like last yr, i feel that the Offense doesn't have to win the game, JUST DON'T LOSE IT FOR US. I feel our Defense is coming around and i for one am very excited

Look all i know is if we lose a game it sure a hell better not be the offenses fault.
And to be honest even if our Offense is ranked number 1 next yr, i still want him gone, plain and simple. Because it wont be because of him, it will be because of our players. Or more relisticaly is our Defense will be kicking butt and taking numbers. I really do believe our DEFENSE will be the talk of the nation, i really do believe that. New DEFENSIVE COOR. that in a way reminds me of REX.

Anyways i want to see our Team feared by all teams that have to face us, Feared not only by our Defense but also our Offense. I have a gut feeling our Rook Wr our going to blow up, not just T. Smith but also Tandon Doss and lets not forget about D. Reed, who can also be a deep threat and do KR AND PR.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1310262767' post='705537']
And to be honest even if our Offense is ranked number 1 next yr, i still want him gone, plain and simple. Because it wont be because of him, it will be because of our players.
[/quote]

Another example of Cam bashing going too far. If you're going to take that stance, why blame Cam when anything goes wrong? Better yet, why even credit other OCs like McDaniels and Zorn?

The guy has his faults but the hate for him is just hilarious at times.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='PurpleReign92' timestamp='1310241887' post='705414']
Sometimes a perfectly executed designed route is disturbed because of the players actions and not the playbook.
When Housh dropped that pass it was his own mistake the route was fine and the ball was placed perfectly he just dropped it and that basically ended our playoffs..
[/quote]

I do agree with you but to me it should have never came down to that, and on a side note while im thinking about that JUNK you want to call a game (STEALERS PLAY OFF), why didnt we draft a new Center, hopefully we can get one in FA. Which i think might happen, i know i know the center was playing hurt pretty much all yr with a bum knee or even both bum knees. Our O line was a wreck last yr and should have been fixed to a certain extent, We couldn have brung a guy up from the practice squad, it couldn't have gotten any worse. And if it didn't work , so be it.

The thing that bugs me is, I really didn't see any attempts to fix the front line. Oher is hell of a Tackle but we all know he should have been on the right side, the PRO BOWL his rookie yr should have been enough to keep him there, but hey what do i know. Im just a fan that watches every single game and saw Oher getting beat half the time. Maybe it's what i've been saying in my other post. Just plain stubbornness from the coaching staff or they just didn't have anyone better. I don't know, I'm just ready for some FREAKING FOOTBALL already, Plain and simple, lets get this thing going already.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1310262108' post='705535']<br />Zorn runs a completely different system than the one Cam runs. What sense would it have made to promote him with the lockout looming and little time to implement his playbook?<br />[/quote]


not only that, but given the choice, I would much rather have Cam. Cam is not as bad as many make him out to be. Zorn, on the other hand, I'm not so sure that applies to him. I was never a fan of bringing him in, and wouldn't want him running our offense. Although, at one point in the season last year, it would not have taken much to persuade me otherwise.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1310263520' post='705540']
Another example of Cam bashing going too far. If you're going to take that stance, why blame Cam when anything goes wrong? Better yet, why even credit other OCs like McDaniels and Zorn?

The guy has his faults but the hate for him is just hilarious at times.
[/quote]


Sorry i just can't help it at times, who am i kidding , i can't help it at all. I just don't like the guy and yes he is a scape goat. Im not saying everything will be better with him gone but i just think it will. There's a reason the other Teams got rid of him, The Dolphins were smart to cut their losses early and that i can respect.

Im not saying we lost that game against Pitt in the play off because of him because we didn't it was just unbelievable fluke crap that just kept happening, I was in just straight shock.

I blame Cam for everything else with the other games, im not getting into it because honestly they are a bit of a haze. All i can say is i was sick and still sick of the play calling that you can see a mile away. I want to see a killer instinct from Cam , when we are up 24 to 3, dont let off the throttle ,(don't just try and run the clock out, screw it throw the ball, try something different ,let the new QB get some snaps)(Tyrod) go for the jugular and make that team never want to play the RAVENS again. I want the other Team to wake up with nightmares in the middle of the night because they got beat soooo bad. The one thing i miss the most from the old days are the SHUT OUTS.

I want Cam or Harbs. for that matter to have that Bill Belichick mentality , go in for the kill.

And to anyone that is a RAVENS fan who wouldn't want that, I am proud to be a Ravens fan and always will, I don't care if we are 1-14 with one game to play, you can bet your top dollar that i will be watching that game, God forbid that were to happen but without a doubt i would/will watch that game. [i]<deleted>

[/i]And on a side note, im not complaining because it worked most of the time, The check, dump offs to Rice arnt going to work this yr. The Other Teams are going to be ready for it and are going to end up getting Rice hurt when they stick a giant linebacker on him and lay him out. And i will be outraged because its going to happen sooner or later (hopefully never because our offense will be different, more deep balls thrown). I never saw so many dump offs except for watching the SAINTS play.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1310262108' post='705535']
Zorn runs a completely different system than the one Cam runs. What sense would it have made to promote him with the lockout looming and little time to implement his playbook?
[/quote]

Well even though its a completely different system, Zorn would be more familiar with the team and players and know their capabilities more than any other joe smo coor. they would bring in.
And im pretty sure Zorn would use the weapons we had a little better than your buddy, The one we don't speak of but calls the same plays over and over again. (joke)

I used to like , love the reverse until it was [i]<overused>.[/i]

[ellicottraven]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1310262767' post='705537']
Well it is possible, Billick did it and we made it to the play offs after that, because Billick was on the Hot seat and knew his job was on the line (and he was very good friends with the O.C)(sound fimilar,lolol), Cam realizes that he is gone after this yr if he doesnt produce, butt buddies with harbs. or not) if our Offense isn't ranked in the top 10 or scoring atleast 21 points a game (points dont matter but do look good). Just like last yr, i feel that the Offense doesn't have to win the game, JUST DON'T LOSE IT FOR US. I feel our Defense is coming around and i for one am very excited

Look all i know is if we lose a game it sure a hell better not be the offenses fault.
And to be honest even if our Offense is ranked number 1 next yr, i still want him gone, plain and simple. Because it wont be because of him, it will be because of our players. Or more relisticaly is our Defense will be kicking butt and taking numbers. I really do believe our DEFENSE will be the talk of the nation, i really do believe that. New DEFENSIVE COOR. that in a way reminds me of REX.

Anyways i want to see our Team feared by all teams that have to face us, Feared not only by our Defense but also our Offense. I have a gut feeling our Rook Wr our going to blow up, not just T. Smith but also Tandon Doss and lets not forget about D. Reed, who can also be a deep threat and do KR AND PR.
[/quote]


What? You want to fire him even if our offense is ranked #1? Because somehow it will be our players that get us that ranking? But, you are pissed at him because our Offense is not ranked #1, but this time it has to be Cam's fault right? I know you are angry, but please don't be...

[flynismo]

Fellow Cam haters, let's keep in mind that Cam is part of the problem, not THE problem. If people are going to take our views seriously, we need to give the man his due when he deserves it. Cam IS intelligent, and has had a few excellent showings last season, only for the players to fail him.Make no mistake, we need to upgrade at OC. But I have the feeling that we will be pleasantly surprised at what we see from Cam this season. His career depends on it.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1310266765' post='705560']
What? You want to fire him even if our offense is ranked #1? Because somehow it will be our players that get us that ranking? But, you are pissed at him because our Offense is not ranked #1, but this time it has to be Cam's fault right? I know you are angry, but please don't be...
[/quote]

I think you know what im saying, its a win/lose sit. for me

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1310267111' post='705566']
Fellow Cam haters, let's keep in mind that Cam is part of the problem, not THE problem. If people are going to take our views seriously, we need to give the man his due when he deserves it. Cam IS intelligent, and has had a few excellent showings last season, only for the players to fail him.Make no mistake, we need to upgrade at OC. But I have the feeling that we will be pleasantly surprised at what we see from Cam this season. His career depends on it.
[/quote]

I told myself I was done with the whole Cam thing. However this might have been one of the best post coming from someone who's not as big of a Cam Cameron fan.

If you hate the guy, dislike him, or just feel the offense has outgrown him, it's cool, but at least be sensible in your criticism of him.

Great job Fly.

[PurpleGreek]

I love Cam the human being...

I am not crazy about Cam the OC.

wrong scheme, wrong personnel, wrong philosophy
and
too buddy-buddy with his boss.

On the other hand, I'm not crazy about John Harbaugh the HC either so maybe Cameron will succeed in taking him down by flubbing again in 2011 - a season where the bye week favors us, the strength of schedule favors us, the thursday night game favors us, and our stacked roster favors us...

Anything less than a first round bye and home field advantage and two wins in the playoffs is probably not going to be good enough for me or Mr Bisciotti.

Let's see if the owners can get their heads out of their asses and agree on a CBA this week... good luck

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1310266420' post='705558']
Well even though its a completely different system, Zorn would be more familiar with the team and players and know their capabilities more than any other joe smo coor. they would bring in.
And im pretty sure Zorn would use the weapons we had a little better than your buddy, The one we don't speak of but calls the same plays over and over again. (joke)

I used to like , love the reverse until it was [i]<overused>.[/i]
[/quote]

So you use familiarity to explain why canning an OC who had been with the team for three years and promoting a QB coach who had been with the team for one year would be a good move? You can't be serious.

Just because I don't share your irrational dislike for the guy doesn't mean he's my "buddy".

You're sure Zorn would have done better than Cam based on what? I don't remember his play-calling being too great in D.C. Not that he had a lot of talent to work with. But neither did Cam in Miami, yet people still bash him for that.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

Ok there are going to be people who hate him and those that do not. I am definitely not toting the cam lunch box, but let us ALL be reasonable. People who are his fans should not absolve or exonerate him from his more than fair share of mistakes, however those of us haters also should not say things that have no basis in fact or even remote reasoning. The best this is going to come to really is that people are going to be more lenient than others and we should just accept everyone's REASONABLE opinions. I went back and forth on this all day and have found out that there are educated people on both sides of the argument, those who are going to criticize and absolve without any real logic to the other side.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1310267111' post='705566']
Fellow Cam haters, let's keep in mind that Cam is part of the problem, not THE problem. If people are going to take our views seriously, we need to give the man his due when he deserves it. Cam IS intelligent, and has had a few excellent showings last season, only for the players to fail him.Make no mistake, we need to upgrade at OC. But I have the feeling that we will be pleasantly surprised at what we see from Cam this season. His career depends on it.
[/quote]

He, joe and michael oher have to get better.

[PurpleReign92]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1310311107' post='705660']
He, joe and michael oher have to get better. They have to get better together because they are all pulling for the same Purple Black at this point!

[/quote]
Fixed!

[Guest I-70WestRaven]

Cam's play calling in some situations has left him open to the "bashing" he has taken. Trust me there has been many a time I was left wondering "What was he thinking?" While it's easy for me to arm chair co-ordinate, there is a part of me that wonders if it was dictated by the personel he had to work with. Maybe a lack of confidence on his part, an over relience on the Ravens "D", or another reason, one thing is for sure. If the lock out ends, alot of eyes and pressure are going to be on him to produce, and rightfully so.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1310271685' post='705589']
You can't be serious.

Just because I don't share your irrational dislike for the guy doesn't mean he's my "buddy".

You're sure Zorn would have done better than Cam based on what? I don't remember his play-calling being too great in D.C. Not that he had a lot of talent to work with. But neither did Cam in Miami, yet people still bash him for that.
[/quote]

So what do you think he would do worse, no i dont buy it. A QB has to at the very least get along with the O.C which i dont think is the case. We all know Flacco liked and respected Zorn,
Honestly i wouldnt want Zorn to be the O.C but given the circumstance with the Lock out and a new O.C coming in late probably woundnt be a good idea either, it would be the best choice for Zorn to be upgraded to O.C if the Cam was canned. Zorn knew the playbook, and i really do believe the play-calling would have been better. Zorn from what i remember was forced to be H.C, he was first hired to be just the O.C.

I really really hope im wrong about Cam not producing this yr, but his record shows different. We will leave it at that i guess. I never said things would be fine and dandy with him gone but wouldn't it be exciting to know we have a new O.C and a new/different gameplan. Im very optimistic wit are Defense and would love to have the same outlook for our Offense, i am a little optimistic for a Offense with the addition of T. Smith and T.Doss, also Our O line getting back to normal or lets just say Better.

I for one wanted J. McDaniels to be the O.C, and will be very bitter if the RAMS would be called the greatest show on turf again this season coming up, We all know i don't like Cam and alot of people on this forum don't, that's a given. This is Cams last chance and if are offense is doing poorly in the first few games, ill be honest with you. I want him gone on the spot, not next yr.
Yes it might not be the smartest move but heck, it'll be a change and that i think would jump start the offense. Hopefully Childress would still be avalible .

Look how pumped up are Defense is that we have a new D.C that is Respected and well liked. I don't think Cam is liked or respected for that matter in the locker room.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1310267111' post='705566']
Fellow Cam haters, let's keep in mind that Cam is part of the problem, not THE problem. If people are going to take our views seriously, we need to give the man his due when he deserves it. Cam IS intelligent, and has had a few excellent showings last season, only for the players to fail him.Make no mistake, we need to upgrade at OC. But I have the feeling that we will be pleasantly surprised at what we see from Cam this season. His career depends on it.
[/quote]

fly....

i'm willing to support Cam as long as he doesn't call that same garbage that he did last season. we'll see!

~Mili

[flynismo]

,[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1310339989' post='705856']<br />fly....<br /><br />i'm willing to support Cam as long as he doesn't call that same garbage that he did last season.  we'll see!<br /><br />~Mili<br />[/quote]


exactly how I feel. What do they say about expecting the worst and hoping for the best?,,,,

[Free Agent]

Im not going to bash Cam anymore than he is due. That said, one of my biggest problems with Cam was his inability to deliver the knockout punch. As with the Ravens-Steelers playoff game, once the Ravens had the lead, Cam had to blow it with some gosh-awful play calls. And that was not the only for-instance. There were several times that the Ravens held a lead, and Cam took the foot off the gas and watched the lead disappear. That was ONE of my problems with Cam this season...

[Free Agent]

I know I have posted this video in countless other threads, but it bears reposting. The key portion is at 00:30 when Brian Baldinger points out the playcalling as the key contributing factor to the Ravens' loss.

[media]http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-playoffs/09000d5d81dc54a7/Playbook-Ravens-vs-Steelers-recap[/media]