Cam Cameron Bashing

[ellicottraven]

[i][b]Edit:

After a couple of weeks of training camp and a pre-season game, how do you think Cam is doing? Has he given Joe the freedom you guys anticipated or is it still the same old Joe vis-a-vis Cam? Do you see hope or do you think it is too early to say? Just thought I should resurrect this thread and keep it going through the season...
[/b][/i]
I have been thinking about this Cam Cameron bashing that is going on in our boards and amongst most Ravens fans. I really don't know if it is justified criticism or not. Believe me, I belong to the bashing community myself (just feels good to have a scape goat for our offensive woes I suppose). However, I am beginning to believe it is going a little too far. I think Cam is going to do very well this season contrary to what most people believe.



Well most of this started with his conservative play calling once we had amassed a lead going into the 3rd and 4th quarters. It backfired consistently for us. But, what really motivated him to become so conservative? Why? Did he not believe Joe Flacco was incapable of throwing the ball and handling the pressure? If he did, why? Did he believe so much in our defense that he anticipated them stopping the other teams from scoring? There has to be justifiable reasoning that went into his conservatism right? How is that going to change this season? Will it?


We all remember Bisciotti having a conversation with Billick when his ego got out of hand right? The next season we had a more amiable Billick who acturally did reasonably well. Has Bisciotti directed Harbaugh to do the same with Cam?


Again, this kind of constant criticism is bound to demoralize anybody. So are we being critical to the point beyond reason? Is this counter productive? Do we have it in us to forgive the few mistakes he has made and renew our confidence in his abilities? I personally think we should. What do you guys think? Share your opinions freely as I know many of you feel strongly about this.

[izvoodoo]

Even though he hasn't done well here I think people should remember cam cameron is actually good at what he does. That's my only complaint, we don't know more than Cam, he's a talented OC. Play calling is sometimes good. Personnel is also a problem.

But yes, there are certainly things he needs to do better.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

I'll say this, is when Billicks ego got in the way, I felt the same way about him as I did Cam. But when he was the 200 HC and we won a superbowl he was alright in my book.

It comes down to when Cam proves he is talented that is when public opinion is going to change, until then this is the by product of his lame play calling and inexplicable use of our only deep threat.

If he starts winning games then I will be aboard the, " Cam is the Man" bandwagon but until then all he is is wasted talent to me.

ANd to be honest if Cam reads this and becomes demoralized then he needs to catch the first flight out of Baltimore, because this is not the city or team to be soft in.

[Suggs Package]

I do think Cam gets criticized way too much by us fans. If you weight our offensive output against our defensive competition last year, we're a top ten offense easily. The running game struggled a bit but Flacco had an amazing year and we had 4 receivers with more than 500 yards. This is with us playing Pitt twice, the Jets, Miami, Atlanta, New Orleans, etc. Pretty much half of our schedule was against top ten defenses.

If you have told me that we would be this successful with a DI-AA QB, a little person at RB and a 37 year old leading receiver I would have laughed at you. Cam is a good coordinator with a great ability to develop QBs. I do think Joe will outgrow Cam, but we're aren't there yet.

More than anything, I don't want us to turn into Philly fans who can't appreciate their players and coaches. We went 12-4 btw. I think losing to the Steelers makes us bitter and think everything is worse than it really is because we can't get over that hump.

[jaege]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1310134298' post='704828']
I have been thinking about this Cam Cameron bashing that is going on in our boards and amongst most Ravens fans. I really don't know if it is justified criticism or not. Believe me, I belong to the bashing community myself (just feels good to have a scape goat for our offensive woes I suppose). However, I am beginning to believe it is going a little too far. I think Cam is going to do very well this season contrary to what most people believe.



Well most of this started with his conservative play calling once we had amassed a lead going into the 3rd and 4th quarters. It backfired consistently for us. But, what really motivated him to become so conservative? Why? Did he not believe Joe Flacco was incapable of throwing the ball and handling the pressure? If he did, why? Did he believe so much in our defense that he anticipated them stopping the other teams from scoring? There has to be justifiable reasoning that went into his conservatism right? How is that going to change this season? Will it?


We all remember Bisciotti having a conversation with Billick when his ego got out of hand right? The next season we had a more amiable Billick who acturally did reasonably well. Has Bisciotti directed Harbaugh to do the same with Cam?


Again, this kind of constant criticism is bound to demoralize anybody. So are we being critical to the point beyond reason? Is this counter productive? Do we have it in us to forgive the few mistakes he has made and renew our confidence in his abilities? I personally think we should. What do you guys think? Share your opinions freely as I know many of you feel strongly about this.
[/quote]


What makes you think he is going to have a good season this season? You read it in the stars? There has been no evidence that Cam has changed his lunk-headed narrow minded ways. The only way that the team will have a better offensive season is if the FO reigns Cam in and/or Harbaugh takes over. That does look like what may happen, so I am hopeful that we have seen the last of Cam's stupidity, and we will have a better season. If we rely on a Cam offensive scheme, we are in for more of the same sorts of goofball play calling as last year.

[jaege]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1310138177' post='704848']
I do think Cam gets criticized way too much by us fans. If you weight our offensive output against our defensive competition last year, we're a top ten offense easily. The running game struggled a bit but Flacco had an amazing year and we had 4 receivers with more than 500 yards. This is with us playing Pitt twice, the Jets, Miami, Atlanta, New Orleans, etc. Pretty much half of our schedule was against top ten defenses.

If you have told me that we would be this successful with a DI-AA QB, a little person at RB and a 37 year old leading receiver I would have laughed at you. Cam is a good coordinator with a great ability to develop QBs. I do think Joe will outgrow Cam, but we're aren't there yet.

More than anything, I don't want us to turn into Philly fans who can't appreciate their players and coaches. We went 12-4 btw. I think losing to the Steelers makes us bitter and think everything is worse than it really is because we can't get over that hump.
[/quote]

I agree that we did have a good season last year, but we should have and would have had a great season, were it not for some foolish, narrow minded play calling. If you do not have the sense to use your players strength, I am sorry, you are just not a good coordinator, you are a petty tyrant. And yes, I also agree that players failing to produce was also part of our problem, but we can either replace all our players or one coordinator. Which sounds easier to you?

[justifythegame]

At the end of the day Cam Cameron has brought the Ravens its best offense it has ever seen. Where would the Ravens be if we still had the Billick offense? We wouldn't even be a playoff team considering the defense (while still good) as declined significantly. The real problem is that Cam runs his version of the air coryell o, and people just don't like it, they want to see us go 4 WR instead going 2 TEe/FB...and thats just not going to happen. Cam's type of offense can be really good, in fact it was once the #1 O in the NFL in SD, Turner is making it work in SD again. The problem is we need TEs. Heap is great, he had a good year, but he is no antonio gates. And we need our rookie TEs to step up. And Joe Flacco has to step up his game, he takes too long to make a throw, and he has trouble seeing and hitting the open WR the second they get open compared to veteran QBs in sync with his WRs. Oher needs to learn how to play LT or move back to RT. Its just a combination of things thats slowing the offense down. Those little things have to get corrected for the o to move forward. If people think cam is going to 3 and 4WR and change his style...thats just not going to happen, we might as well fire and hire an OC with a different philosophy then.

[PurpleGreek]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1310140445' post='704871']
At the end of the day Cam Cameron has brought the Ravens its best offense it has ever seen.[/quote]


At the end of the day, it's either Cam's fault or the FO fault...and I think it's Cameron because:

did the FO go out and get him speed? they did... he didn't use it much... not even as a decoy

the scheme doesn't fit the personnel... that's all Cam


Your criticism of the players is inaccurate. If you have to have a pro bowler at every position to succeed, you're in big trouble...

And Flacco is a great QB... how is he supposed to see separation that isn't there? It's EASY to cover the Ravens slow, predictable passing game...

and then.... wait for it..................

END AROUND! YEAH!!!!

Another note: Harbaugh seems to have hitched his wagon to his brother's former coach... if they don't get their **** together and start planning to win games instead of "giving them away" they're both going to be gone...

GO BALTIMORE

[big hits and ball hawks]

I'm getting tired of the Cam bashing, and, yes, I bashed Cam plenty during last season. I don't think all the offensive problems were necessarily all his fault, but I put more blame on his shoulders. However, the reason I'm tired of it is because people seem to think we'll be terrible next year and I just don't see that. I believe them when they say Harbs and Cam are re-working the offense as well as planning to give Flacco more control. I think if Flacco does get more control then there's reason to believe we'll see more spread and shotgun, it's what he seems to be comfortable with. Also, I think more no huddle offense. If Cam does continue how he was last year then he's gone. He's gonna have to be more creative and use his weapons to keep his job because if it continues I don't think Harbs can save him again.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1310140445' post='704871']
At the end of the day Cam Cameron has brought the Ravens its best offense it has ever seen. Where would the Ravens be if we still had the Billick offense? We wouldn't even be a playoff team considering the defense (while still good) as declined significantly. The real problem is that Cam runs his version of the air coryell o, and people just don't like it, they want to see us go 4 WR instead going 2 TEe/FB...and thats just not going to happen. Cam's type of offense can be really good, in fact it was once the #1 O in the NFL in SD, Turner is making it work in SD again. The problem is we need TEs. Heap is great, he had a good year, but he is no antonio gates. And we need our rookie TEs to step up. And Joe Flacco has to step up his game, he takes too long to make a throw, and he has trouble seeing and hitting the open WR the second they get open compared to veteran QBs in sync with his WRs. Oher needs to learn how to play LT or move back to RT. Its just a combination of things thats slowing the offense down. Those little [b]things have to get corrected for the o to move forward. If people think cam is going to 3 and 4WR and change his style...thats just not going to happen, [/b][b]we might as well fire and hire an OC with a different philosophy then.[/b]
[/quote]

It is adapt or die. If he cant change and do what is necessary to get the best production out of our offense then I would like to be the first and say thanks, but hit the bricks, we are going to get someone who is flexible and can actually operate within our personnel.

[PurpleReign92]

Some people get the idea that Cam just doesn't want to be here anymore.
Then the threads about Billick coming back start up... People at this point already assume that Cam decided no more and Billick wants back!

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1310139929' post='704869']
I agree that we did have a good season last year, but we should have and would have had a great season, were it not for some foolish, narrow minded play calling. If you do not have the sense to use your players strength, I am sorry, you are just not a good coordinator, you are a petty tyrant. And yes, I also agree that players failing to produce was also part of our problem, but we can either replace all our players or one coordinator. Which sounds easier to you?
[/quote]

The problem is, replacing players or a coach is the extreme. How about we just focusing on executing better with the players and coaches we have.

Everybody wants to have a scapegoat when things go wrong. It's not about getting rid of players. Will some go? yes, but it's not about replacing something that didn't work as well as you would have liked. Nobody wants to work towards greatness anymore. They just want it now, and if they don't see it, get rid of this guy, or get rid of that guy. Fire Cam last season, and you bring in a completely different offense, the coaches don't have a single day to teach the offense before Camp, because of the lockout. So now you have only 4 weeks to learn the offense and new pieces of the offense. You start the season against the Steelers and expectations are high. These players struggled with the mental side of the game being in the same offense for 2-3 years. Do you really think things would be better with a completely new offense?

I don't think so, I think we'd be right back to the same place next year, because the offense would fail to come up big in big games. You'll have half of the fans saying, it's not all on the coach it's the players. Then the other half will say, why can't we find a decent coach. We suck at selecting coaches.

People say, bring Billick back he produced the highest scoring offense in the NFL with Randy Moss and use Boldin like he was used in Arizon. Well show me one player on our team that's equivalent to Randy Moss in his rookie year or Fitz and I'm all for it.

People say, Cam doesn't know how to use his weapons. Or doesn't use guys to their strengths. People forget that we went from a offense that ran wildcats, options, and passing to our QB over the first 2 years, to more of a pro-style offense in 10'. Putting new pieces into an offense isn't that easy. Just because you add big names doesn't mean those name will gel and produce up to potential.

Did Cam not maximize the athletic abilities of Troy Smith? Did he not maximize LeRon McClian?, Did he not make the best out of having a rookie QB, FB as your leading rusher, and 2nd youngest Oline in the NFL? Did Cam not introduce the unbalanced line and jumbo pacakage to the offense, instead of continuing to use a inefficient backup TE?

As fans, we can't sit here and act like this offense is right there ready to take off, because while that's partially true, this offense has a lot of work to do. Show me one elite offense that continue to produce with poor play from the Oline?

Army, you said you'll join the Cam is the man bangwagon once he starts winning game. Who's has the most wins in NFL history as an Offensive Coordinator? What OC gets run down to have a on field interview after a huge win? When have you ever see the stats of a OC come across the screen on gameday?

It's the players who win and lose game. Do the coaches have to play a big part in that? Yes, but Ultimately players win and loss games. The Ravens have lost a total of 16 regular season games over the last 3 season(19 inculding playoffs), an in 14 out of 16 of those games I can point out how 1 or 2 plays prevented us from winning those games. Dropped passes, TD taken away by penalties, bone headed mistakes etc.

Can some of those losses be placed on Cam? yes because his play calling hasn't be the greatest. But good execution can overcome a poor play calls everytime. There's nothing you can do to overcome poor execution.

Someone said Joe will outgrown Cam. Well he will, every great QB outgrows his OC. Once Flacco outgrows Cam, he'll be on that Manning and Brady level. Those guys don't need a OC because their offense has been the same since they started and they no it front to back. But if anyone thinks Flacco is this finished product that can't reach the sky because Cam has a roof over his head, it's just not true. Flacco still has a lot of work to do, and it's encouraging that he's gotten better and better each year. But he's still developing as a QB.

I like how people say, this offense will never take off under Cam. Then in the very next line they say. But if it does it'll be because the Ravens reeled Cam in. Or Cam got his head out of his butt. Rarely do you hear that this offense will be better once they start playing better.

So when they do take off, those same people will still be able to say, see I told you I was right. Cam finally stopped being stubborn, or Cam finally got his head out of his butt, or Cam finally started calling better plays. When the truth of the matter is, If the offense reaches the potential that most of us see in it, It'll have just as much to do with the players stepping up, as anything.

If this offense reaches top 10 status this year, I'm willing to bet that the Oline will have performed better. The backs blocked better in pass pro. Flacco made better decisions, WR held onto balls and the offense too advantage of a lot more scoring opportunities, on top of Cam being better as well.

Those things won't just all of the sudden happen because Flacco got more control of the offense. No these things will start happening once the offense plays better as a collective unit.

[berad]

The Cameron bashing has become more tempered as the offseason has gone on. But I think that's more because people are more frustrated/jaded with the CBA issues than mad at Cameron.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='PurpleGreek' timestamp='1310146346' post='704911']
At the end of the day, it's either Cam's fault or the FO fault...and I think it's Cameron because:

did the FO go out and get him speed? they did... he didn't use it much... not even as a decoy

the scheme doesn't fit the personnel... that's all Cam


Your criticism of the players is inaccurate. If you have to have a pro bowler at every position to succeed, you're in big trouble...

And Flacco is a great QB... how is he supposed to see separation that isn't there? It's EASY to cover the Ravens slow, predictable passing game...

and then.... wait for it..................

END AROUND! YEAH!!!!

Another note: Harbaugh seems to have hitched his wagon to his brother's former coach... if they don't get their **** together and start planning to win games instead of "giving them away" they're both going to be gone...

GO BALTIMORE
[/quote]

That one deep threat broke his foot, which is why we felt the need to go our and get Housh in the first place. Should Stallworth have been used more once he returned, yes, but that's not the sole reason the offense struggled at times last season.

Nobody is saying you have to have a pro bowler at every position. But it would be nice to have a LT that doesn't have costly penalties what seems like once every game. It would be nice to have a WR who doesn't have at lest 5 costly drops during the season. It would be nice to have a oline to get better movement in the running game. It would be nice for your backs to step up in pass protection.

All of those things I just named are areas that the Ravens regressed at. If it was a case where the players just couldn't do it, or were put in a position to not succeed at it then ok, that's the coaches fault.

But there is no excuse for McClain and Rice to be as poor as they were in pass pro last season. McClain focused too much on trying to leak out and become a option on the play, opposed to making sure his guy was blocked long enough to give Flacco the time needed.

Oher regressed as a overall players last season. He played wonderful as a RT and shined as a back up LT. Then he gets the LT spot full time and he plays like a rookie. That's not on the coaches.

In 2009 Mark Clayton dropped one pass the entire season. Actually i think it was 3, but the one drop vs NE was the one nobody would let him live down. Housh drops at least 5-6 costly passes and people blame Cam for not putting him in better position.

I don't care if you are labeled as a deep threat, possession WR or what. If the ball hits your hands you gotta catch the ball, point blank. That has nothing to do with coaches.

Flacco is a really good QB. He has his faults just like the rest of the offense. I've been accused of putting too much stock into player execution. Most of you guys coddle these players far too much.

Flacco misses a WR, it's not his fault. Cam should have called a better play. Ray Rice doesn't stay patient and allow his block to develop and it's Cam's fault.

The problems with this offense isn't a one man blame train. Everybody has to be better. Not just one man being the scapegoat. Because if you enable these players, that poor play will never change. Regardless of who the coach is.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1310150723' post='704944']
The problem is, replacing players or a coach is the extreme. How about we just focusing on executing better with the players and coaches we have.

Everybody wants to have a scapegoat when things go wrong. It's not about getting rid of players. Will some go? yes, but it's not about replacing something that didn't work as well as you would have liked. Nobody wants to work towards greatness anymore. They just want it now, and if they don't see it, get rid of this guy, or get rid of that guy. Fire Cam last season, and you bring in a completely different offense, the coaches don't have a single day to teach the offense before Camp, because of the lockout. So now you have only 4 weeks to learn the offense and new pieces of the offense. You start the season against the Steelers and expectations are high. These players struggled with the mental side of the game being in the same offense for 2-3 years. Do you really think things would be better with a completely new offense?

I don't think so, I think we'd be right back to the same place next year, because the offense would fail to come up big in big games. You'll have half of the fans saying, it's not all on the coach it's the players. Then the other half will say, why can't we find a decent coach. We suck at selecting coaches.

People say, bring Billick back he produced the highest scoring offense in the NFL with Randy Moss and use Boldin like he was used in Arizon. Well show me one player on our team that's equivalent to Randy Moss in his rookie year or Fitz and I'm all for it.

People say, Cam doesn't know how to use his weapons. Or doesn't use guys to their strengths. People forget that we went from a offense that ran wildcats, options, and passing to our QB over the first 2 years, to more of a pro-style offense in 10'. Putting new pieces into an offense isn't that easy. Just because you add big names doesn't mean those name will gel and produce up to potential.

Did Cam not maximize the athletic abilities of Troy Smith? Did he not maximize LeRon McClian?, Did he not make the best out of having a rookie QB, FB as your leading rusher, and 2nd youngest Oline in the NFL? Did Cam not introduce the unbalanced line and jumbo pacakage to the offense, instead of continuing to use a inefficient backup TE?

As fans, we can't sit here and act like this offense is right there ready to take off, because while that's partially true, this offense has a lot of work to do. Show me one elite offense that continue to produce with poor play from the Oline?
[b]
Army, you said you'll join the Cam is the man bangwagon once he starts winning game. Who's has the most wins in NFL history as an Offensive Coordinator? What OC gets run down to have a on field interview after a huge win? When have you ever see the stats of a OC come across the screen on gameday? [/b]

[b]It's the players who win and lose game. Do the coaches have to play a big part in that? Yes, but Ultimately players win and loss games. The Ravens have lost a total of 16 regular season games over the last 3 season(19 inculding playoffs), an in 14 out of 16 of those games I can point out how 1 or 2 plays prevented us from winning those games. Dropped passes, TD taken away by penalties, bone headed mistakes etc. [/b]

Can some of those losses be placed on Cam? yes because his play calling hasn't be the greatest. But good execution can overcome a poor play calls everytime. There's nothing you can do to overcome poor execution.

Someone said Joe will outgrown Cam. Well he will, every great QB outgrows his OC. Once Flacco outgrows Cam, he'll be on that Manning and Brady level. Those guys don't need a OC because their offense has been the same since they started and they no it front to back. But if anyone thinks Flacco is this finished product that can't reach the sky because Cam has a roof over his head, it's just not true. Flacco still has a lot of work to do, and it's encouraging that he's gotten better and better each year. But he's still developing as a QB.

I like how people say, this offense will never take off under Cam. Then in the very next line they say. But if it does it'll be because the Ravens reeled Cam in. Or Cam got his head out of his butt. Rarely do you hear that this offense will be better once they start playing better.

So when they do take off, those same people will still be able to say, see I told you I was right. Cam finally stopped being stubborn, or Cam finally got his head out of his butt, or Cam finally started calling better plays. When the truth of the matter is, If the offense reaches the potential that most of us see in it, It'll have just as much to do with the players stepping up, as anything.

If this offense reaches top 10 status this year, I'm willing to bet that the Oline will have performed better. The backs blocked better in pass pro. Flacco made better decisions, WR held onto balls and the offense too advantage of a lot more scoring opportunities, on top of Cam being better as well.

Those things won't just all of the sudden happen because Flacco got more control of the offense. No these things will start happening once the offense plays better as a collective unit.
[/quote]


Honestly I could care less what he did in San Diego, well because this isn't San Diego. yeah he has accolades out the wazoo singing his praises, but once he starts doing things here in Baltimore is when I will get excited. The fact that he won all of those games in San Diego does not mean we can walk up too Bellicheat and say hey our OC was awesome and San Diego so you better look out.

And just for fun because I have been watching the Ravens entire season now, usually about two games a night now since the draft, but go back and look. Since you want to harp on the players, go back and watch the play calling to see wow if he would have done this, or maybe that then we would have ended up with 14 more points and put it away before that mistake. If you don't it's cool but I did because that is what is awesome about being a bachelor but there were a lot of times that don't get talked about because nothing materialized, which is the problem. Just because you miss and ordinary play call in an ordinary game does not make it irrelevant.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1310153972' post='704975']
Honestly I could care less what he did in San Diego, well because this isn't San Diego. yeah he has accolades out the wazoo singing his praises, but once he starts doing things here in Baltimore is when I will get excited. The fact that he won all of those games in San Diego does not mean we can walk up too Bellicheat and say hey our OC was awesome and San Diego so you better look out.

And just for fun because I have been watching the Ravens entire season now, usually about two games a night now since the draft, but go back and look. Since you want to harp on the players, go back and watch the play calling to see wow if he would have done this, or maybe that then we would have ended up with 14 more points and put it away before that mistake. If you don't it's cool but I did because that is what is awesome about being a bachelor but there were a lot of times that don't get talked about because nothing materialized, which is the problem. Just because you miss and ordinary play call in an ordinary game does not make it irrelevant.
[/quote]

It would be hard to find a better OC. Brad Childress could be one, but with the lockout it would have been impossible to really work a new playbook. Josh McDaniels would have been great too, but lockout and also he's all pass. A little too west coast for baltimore. Cam's a good OC who's been under performing. We're all frustrated, but things are looking up, I feel.

At least we have Joe. That makes life so much easier.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1310153972' post='704975']
Honestly I could care less what he did in San Diego, well because this isn't San Diego. yeah he has accolades out the wazoo singing his praises, but once he starts doing things here in Baltimore is when I will get excited. The fact that he won all of those games in San Diego does not mean we can walk up too Bellicheat and say hey our OC was awesome and San Diego so you better look out.

And just for fun because I have been watching the Ravens entire season now, usually about two games a night now since the draft, but go back and look. Since you want to harp on the players, go back and watch the play calling to see wow if he would have done this, or maybe that then we would have ended up with 14 more points and put it away before that mistake. If you don't it's cool but I did because that is what is awesome about being a bachelor but there were a lot of times that don't get talked about because nothing materialized, which is the problem. Just because you miss and ordinary play call in an ordinary game does not make it irrelevant.
[/quote]

But that's the thing. It's not about what he did or didn't do in SD. Players win games. The same way you say, we can't just walk up to Bellicheat and say our OC was great in SD so watch out, is the same for the players. We can't just say this guy did this with another team, and that guy did this with that team, so watch out for our offense. No, those guys have to play up to potential. Both players and coaches.

Yes you can point out those plays calls, and honestly every play that isn't success, someone could say, the play call should have been different. But honestly tell me of 5 times that we produced a big play or TD, that you said.......Man that play call was horrible. That's the part of the game that we just can't see sitting on our couches, and it's rarely seen while at the stadium because most are caught up in the emotion and excitement of the game. How many times do you see a long run and say. Man that was great but Grubbs got destroyed on the backside, he has to get better. It really happens with fans. We see big play and we praise the offense, regardless if a couple guys didn't do their jobs. We see a bad play and if it's not obvious who's at fault, Cam is blamed.

Every single play that didn't work, could and probably should've been a different call. But since you are watching the games.

Go back and watch the Jets game. Look at the Heap dropped TD, that turned into no points because 4 plays latter McGahee fumbled. Look at Flacco holding onto the ball on a short pass play. Oline cut block, defense hits the ground gets up and blast Flacco. That lead to 3 points that shouldn't have. That wasn't play call. Just a poor decision by Flacco.

Go back and look at the Pats game. Flacco bobbled the snap and it threw off the timing of a potential TD pass. Based off how that game played out, if the Ravens took a 14 point lead there instead of a 10 point lead, game over.

Go back and look at the Dolphins game and see how inches prevent a big play by Boldin. He was ruled out of bounds, instead of it being a catch. Look at the same drive, from the 7 yardline, Le'Ron McClain couldn't get 1 yard to keep the drive going. The result FG instead of TD.

Look at the very next possesion, Webb picks off Henne. Offense gets the ball at the 4 yardline. McGahee loses 1 yard on the first play. Flacco gets sacked on a play action losing 10 yards on the next play. Delay of game on the next play, loss 5 yards. Then Flacco gets sacked again, with quick pressure in his face on 3rd and 20. A drive that started 1st and goal at the 4 yardline. Ended with a FG attempt from the 20. That wasn't play call, that was execution.

Army I would actually love to sit down and watch a few games with you, and understand better what you actually see, and your thoughts of why a play ended the way it did.

I didn't get a chance to record all the games to my DVR this year, but whatever game you wanna replay here, I'm more then willing to exchange opinions with you.

[PeRK82]

I have never wanted a guy to leave this team as much as Cam, he done in my book. The only thing that might change my mind is if the RAVENS are ranked number 1 in offense and i still dont think i would give him credit.

Its pretty sad that every team in the NFL knows what we are going to do before the snap is made, I know this because 95% of the time i knew what the play was going to be, so you dam well the Defense on the field knew.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1310154299' post='704981']
[b]It would be hard to find a better OC[/b]. Brad Childress could be one, but with the lockout it would have been impossible to really work a new playbook. Josh McDaniels would have been great too, but lockout and also he's all pass. A little too west coast for baltimore. Cam's a good OC who's been under performing. We're all frustrated, but things are looking up, I feel.

At least we have Joe. That makes life so much easier.
[/quote]


Josh McDaniels was available , The broncos didnt win much games but look how many points they put on the board.I think at one point they were ranked the number 1 offense last yr. We could have gotten him. I will be seriously pissed off if the RAMS blow up this yr and then we will know the RAVENS made a mistake. Everyone knows we have more Talent on Offense than the RAMS.

[T3hRaven]

Closer towards the end of the season, the Cam bashing appeared to be on the level it needs to be, but I'm disappointed at how much it's died down since then. There appear to be more Cam apologists than Cam bashers now, which is disappointing. I still think the man should have been fired, but after McDaniels was hired by the Rams there wasn't a suitable alternative out there. Sources reported he lost the leadership on the offensive side, and when that happens it's really time for the OC to go. His history in the league is pretty terrible, he made his name off of Tomlinson and could never call plays that utilized his top notch quarterbacks, including Super Bowl MVP Drew Brees, up and coming star Phillip Rivers, and our own Joe Flacco. Our offense last year would have easily been top 10 with a better play caller, or at the very least someone who understood a scheme has to be altered to fit the personnel rather than the personnel being altered to fit the scheme (with Boldin's underachieving being the prime example of this).

He's failed in every job he's had, and it's time to move on. Keeping Cam is only going to hold the team back.

[PurpleGreek]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1310151833' post='704951']
That one deep threat broke his foot, which is why we felt the need to go our and get Housh in the first place..............

The problems with this offense isn't a one man blame train. Everybody has to be better. Not just one man being the scapegoat. Because if you enable these players, that poor play will never change. Regardless of who the coach is.
[/quote]


I like the aggressive argument in favor of your boy.

No one can justify this vert scheme with Mason and Boldin as your 1&2.
No one is saying that we had a great O-line.
No one calls a pass play on 2nd & 5 with under 3 minutes when they're holding a lead.
No one who wants to win doesn't tweak & adjust during the 3rd & 4th quarters, as necessary. We were sitting ducks in the second half of so many games IN SPITE of having a stacked roster.

Every WR drops balls.
Every Back misses an assignment.
Every tackle gets flagged.

Not every HC, DC, and OC are asleep at the wheel like our were last season.

Again---- this year Zorn got fired and the lockout helped Harbaugh campaign for his boy Cammy Cam to keep his job. This in spite of Harbaugh "giving away" games -- which is the most embarrassing statement I've heard from a Baltimore coach IN MY LIFE.

Next season there better be less BFF on the sideline... less doghouse at the Castle... and more SMASHMOUTH football with an OC who schemes to his personnel strengths and a DC who knows that if Roethlisberger is pressured he turns into Mr Tunnel Vision Where is Mikey Wallace. On the other hand, give him 5 seconds to throw and he will shred you half the time.

I don't care what anyone did in 2008, 2009, or 2010. In 2011, we already have a strong team, I know we're going to load up in FA, and our coaches need to stop [i]<complaining>[/i] and whining and LOCK IT DOWN in the second half. Step on people's throats.

KICK SOME BUTT. PERIOD.

GO BALTIMORE.

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1310149936' post='704937']
cam sux
[/quote]
That pretty much sums up what I was about to post.

[ellicottraven]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1310139690' post='704863']
What makes you think he is going to have a good season this season? You read it in the stars? There has been no evidence that Cam has changed his lunk-headed narrow minded ways. The only way that the team will have a better offensive season is if the FO reigns Cam in and/or Harbaugh takes over. That does look like what may happen, so I am hopeful that we have seen the last of Cam's stupidity, and we will have a better season. If we rely on a Cam offensive scheme, we are in for more of the same sorts of goofball play calling as last year.
[/quote]


We have made the playoffs three consecutive years my friend and won 4 out of 7 games played. He has a winning record. Whether you want to accept it or not, our offense has been better over the past 3 yrs than a lot of years we have played short of Steve McNair's 13 win season. Probably he did not meet your individual expectations for the Ravens achievements, but you cannot deny he has a better than average record as coordinator...

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1310166478' post='705083']
Josh McDaniels was available , The broncos didnt win much games but look how many points they put on the board.I think at one point they were ranked the number 1 offense last yr. We could have gotten him. I will be seriously pissed off if the RAMS blow up this yr and then we will know the RAVENS made a mistake. Everyone knows we have more Talent on Offense than the RAMS.
[/quote]
Again, we're not a pass first team, we're a run first team.

Just like the chargers and the steelers. Mainly because of our division.

And changing systems for a 3rd year quarterback during a lockout and on a super bowl run would have been foolish.

Everyone hates their OC.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1310170678' post='705111']
Again, we're not a pass first team, we're a run first team.

Just like the chargers and the steelers. Mainly because of our division.

And changing systems for a 3rd year quarterback during a lockout and on a super bowl run would have been foolish.

[b]Everyone hates their OC.[/b]
[/quote]

Yup. I agree with this. There's not one team out there that's truly completely satisfied with their OC, and wants him to be fired whenever a mistake is made. But, Cam has made way too many in his time here, enough to ever make me become a fan.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1310171260' post='705115']
Yup. I agree with this. There's not one team out there that's truly completely satisfied with their OC, and wants him to be fired whenever a mistake is made. But, Cam has made way too many in his time here, enough to ever make me become a fan.
[/quote]

agreed, but considering how inept our offense has been historically, we have to be patient with this guy.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1310174542' post='705143']
agreed, but considering how inept our offense has been historically, we have to be patient with this guy.
[/quote]

I see where you're coming from, but my patience is being tested lol

[gabefergy]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1310166478' post='705083']
Josh McDaniels was available , The broncos didnt win much games but look how many points they put on the board.I think at one point they were ranked the number 1 offense last yr. We could have gotten him. I will be seriously pissed off if the RAMS blow up this yr and then we will know the RAVENS made a mistake. Everyone knows we have more Talent on Offense than the RAMS.
[/quote]
McDaniels wasnt really available...st louis hired him right after the reg season was over. I think he would have made sense, but with the offseason uncertainty I am glad we kept Cam. Installing a new offense in a lockout is a terrible idea.

If the offense doesn't improve, there is no way Cam is kept another year. I'm pretty confident it will get better tho.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1310165973' post='705079']
I have never wanted a guy to leave this team as much as Cam, he done in my book. The only thing that might change my mind is if the RAVENS are ranked number 1 in offense and i still dont think i would give him credit.
[b]
Its pretty sad that every team in the NFL knows what we are going to do before the snap is made, I know this because 95% of the time i knew what the play was going to be, so you dam well the Defense on the field knew.[/b]
[/quote]

You have to wonder how the offense scored any points at all if oppsosing teams knew what was coming 95% of the time.

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1310166595' post='705085']
Closer towards the end of the season, the Cam bashing appeared to be on the level it needs to be, but I'm disappointed at how much it's died down since then. There appear to be more Cam apologists than Cam bashers now, which is disappointing. I still think the man should have been fired, but after McDaniels was hired by the Rams there wasn't a suitable alternative out there. Sources reported he lost the leadership on the offensive side, and when that happens it's really time for the OC to go. [b]His history in the league is pretty terrible, he made his name off of Tomlinson and could never call plays that utilized his top notch quarterbacks, including Super Bowl MVP Drew Brees, up and coming star Phillip Rivers, and our own Joe Flacco. Our offense last year would have easily been top 10 with a better play caller[/b], or at the very least someone who understood a scheme has to be altered to fit the personnel rather than the personnel being altered to fit the scheme (with Boldin's underachieving being the prime example of this).

He's failed in every job he's had, and it's time to move on. Keeping Cam is only going to hold the team back.
[/quote]

Call me an apologist, I really don't care. But it's statements like these that make the bashing just seem irrational at times.

Brees was named Super Bowl MVP in his 9th season. In the four seasons he actually got significant playing time under Cam though, he showed growth. The same applies to Rivers. In fact, Rivers actually regressed statistically across the board the year after Cam left. And we've seen Joe progress under Cam as well.

There were a number of situations where Cam's play-calling failed in my opinion, but I would have loved to have seen an OC field a top 10 offense with the kind of running game and pass protection issues we saw last season.

[Gordo52]

I will bash him until he makes better calls.