Matt Birk

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

I stumbled across this article earlier ([url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/02/matt-birk-the-forgotten-pro-bowler/"]LINK[/url]) and was very surprised. I was under the impression that Birk had an injury ridden, below par year. Apparently I was wrong as he in fact graded out as PFF's highest rated center.

Thoughts?

[flynismo]

That site is on crack if they rank Birk #1. I thought he was pretty good in pass pro, but was a liability in the run game.

[Ed_Reed20]

I called attention to how highly PFF rated Birk in my [url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/37082-o-line-analysis/"][u]pass protection thread[/u][/url] last month. There wasn't much talk about what he did as a run blocker so the stats in this article are a little surprising.

I felt the were too many occasions in which the middle of the line got little push. Maybe that was more on Chester and Grubbs than I initially thought.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1309731042' post='703438']
That site is on crack if they rank Birk #1. I thought he was pretty good in pass pro, but was a liability in the run game.
[/quote]

Grubbs being hurt and Chris Chester just being Chris Chester had a lot to do with Birk getting exposed in the running game as well.

Individually, I don't think our Oline played as poorly as it seemed, but as a unit they struggled, if that makes any sense.

He Birk had a healthy Grubbs, and Yands on either side of them, his below average-average run blocking was masked quite a bit. But when those 2 elements were taken away from Birk, he's weaknesses were magnified imo.

Edit: i shouldn't say his weaknesses, but rather the overall weakness of the interior line.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1309731593' post='703448']<br />Grubbs being hurt and Chris Chester just being Chris Chester had a lot to do with Birk getting exposed in the running game as well. <br /><br />Individually, I don't think our Oline played as poorly as it seemed, but as a unit they struggled, if that makes any sense. <br /><br />He Birk had a healthy Grubbs, and Yands on either side of them, his below average-average run blocking was masked quite a bit. But when those 2 elements were taken away from Birk, he's weaknesses were magnified imo.<br /><br />Edit: i shouldn't say his weaknesses, but rather the overall weakness of the interior line.<br />[/quote]

sure, I agree that Chester didn't help matters any. But the key word that you used was 'exposed', in other words the other guys didn't play well enough to make up for Birk's poor play in the run. An elite OL doesn't have to worry about being exposed; he can stand on his own two feet.

[TDubbs]

5 years ago maybe he is the no1 center. Hes been a great player for us and helped mentor younger players. One of the most intelligent guys in the nfl. Sadly, time catches up with all of us and 10 plus years on the o line would wear down any persons body. I hope he can make it through this his final season and end it on a nice note.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1309731950' post='703451']
sure, I agree that Chester didn't help matters any. But the key word that you used was 'exposed', in other words the other guys didn't play well enough to make up for Birk's poor play in the run. An elite OL doesn't have to worry about being exposed; he can stand on his own two feet.
[/quote]

Birk was no longer elite when we got him, so you are definitely correct in your thinking. Birk was just a veteran band aid to help bring this young oline together, and buy time for Chester take over as Center of the future.

Birk contemplated, return after last season, so I don't even think he feels as though he's still playing at a high level.

Getting a guy like Ryan Kahlil would be great, but when you add veteran at the tail end of their careers like we did with Birk, more often then not, they won't be elite. You just hope that the pieces around them can perform well enough to mask their weaknesses

[Guest RBates]

That is horrible, no way he was the best, end of story.

[berad]

Bad in the run game, the stats show that. Getting no push ~50% of the time is a distinct [b]loss[/b]- especially when the Ravens run it as much as they do.

[ellicottraven]

I am just as surprised as you. I suppose from a fan's perspective we really don't get to see the finer points to a Center's attributes like for example a DE's (sacks are a very tangible metric). In any case, it just makes me happy that Birk still continues to be one of the best centers in the league.

[Blex64]

I'm surprised at all the negativity. It's been fairly well established at this point that Birk was still one of the best Centers in the league in pass protection last season. Grubbs was playing injured, and they had Chris Chester as the other interior lineman. Its possible that Birk is still playing at a higher level then most of us thought.

Edit: Birk wasn't injured, was he?

[Moderator 3]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1309810121' post='703644']
Birk wasn't injured, was he?
[/quote]

Yes, he was.

[Blex64]

That says loads. [i]<deleted>[/i]

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1309810121' post='703644']
Edit: Birk wasn't injured, was he?
[/quote]

Like Mod 3 said, he was. He needed to have fluid drained from it weekly, and he missed practices late in the season, including the play-offs.

[Blex64]

I thought that was him, but after reading this article I thought maybe it was Grubbs instead considering the level of performance, which is why I edited it out.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1309820718' post='703674']
I thought that was him, but after reading this article I thought maybe it was Grubbs instead considering the level of performance, which is why I edited it out.
[/quote]

Grubbs actually had to deal with an ankle injury.

[CapoRocky]

I see Yanda and Grubbs as the future at guard. Birk may only have one more year in him.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

Maybe he wasn't the best, but he was definitely not out biggest problem on the line this year. And he was one o fhte most consistent. Center is an interesting position because when you think of center's it is very hard to come up with the top 10 or top 5 like you can do with other positions, because center just isnt that glamorized. I mean you still got some of the one's you hear about. To hear about a center is pretty amazing in its own right. I think the case could honestly be made for Birk still being top 5. You have Mangold, Snee, Saturday, Kalil, and after that it is getting dicey, personally I think it may be puncey, but after that you have to at least give thought to Birk.

[Blex64]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309881657' post='703782']
Maybe he wasn't the best, but he was definitely not out biggest problem on the line this year. And he was one o fhte most consistent. Center is an interesting position because when you think of center's it is very hard to come up with the top 10 or top 5 like you can do with other positions, because center just isnt that glamorized. I mean you still got some of the one's you hear about. To hear about a center is pretty amazing in its own right. I think the case could honestly be made for Birk still being top 5. You have Mangold, Snee, Saturday, Kalil, and after that it is getting dicey, personally I think it may be puncey, but after that you have to at least give thought to Birk.
[/quote]

Yet Birk beat Mangold statistically in pass protection, and they were about even when it cam to run blocking.

[Ravenseconbeast]

His overpaid, doesnt pay attention, doesnt line up his front 7 EVER on time, he fumbles balls recklessly 4times last season, and his old. What have these guys been drinking? His one of the major reason why our O-line suffered immensely this previous season. I was surprised we didnt draft a center this season to eventually replace birk.

[Bullrush]

That website is run by some 14 year old Madden geeks...

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1309889463' post='703824']
Yet Birk beat Mangold statistically in pass protection, and they were about even when it cam to run blocking.
[/quote]

I am not saying he isn't good, I am saying when it comes to the best of the best he is not what he used to be, and I would rather have one of these up and coming centers in the game( except for Saturday, he is where birk is) Just for the longevity aspect and the fact that they are all very good at what they do. I am not going to say I am disappointed with Birk though, he did very well for us.