Everything To Do With Ravens 2011 WRs

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1309486187' post='702881']
I doubt Hardy will have 25 REC in 2011. Maybe 10. Other than that, good post.
[/quote]

I can't say you are wrong, because at this point none of us know anything about how these guy will fit into the offense, but why don't u see Hardy getting 25 recs?

LeRon McClain had 21 recs last season, and has had at least 19 recs over the last 3 years. Using McClain in the passing game isn't a bad option, but i wouldn't really consider him a guy that had to get touches in the passing game. So if McClain comes back, at least half of his catches could go to one of the younger guys. I'm thinking Hardy.

I've said that I feel Flacco will be in the 540+ attempt range this season. He'll complete 350+ of those passes and this is how i see the breakdown.

Boldin 85 catches
Mason 64 catches
Rice 46 catches
Heap 47 catches
Smith 33 catches
Dickson 28 catches
Hardy 20 catches
Pitta 11 catches
Reed 10 catches
Doss 4 catches
McClain 4 catches
Allen/Steele 3 catches

How much do you agree/disagree with these reception totals? I think these number will be pretty close to what we will see from the passing game this year.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309461466' post='702710']
All of that to make an impact with that many snaps assuming they even have the YPC that an elite receiver has (which is an unfathomable stretch) the still have very little yards. So for them to make an impact it will be a miracle.
[/quote]
So would you say that Housh had an impact last season? I for one think he definitely did. We are going to have plenty of 3 WR sets, probably some 4 WR sets too. Housh had 30 receptions last year, that production has to go somewhere. My guess Torrey will have the most impact, 30-40 catches wouldnt surprise me at all. I think David Reed will see a lot of action as well. We know he was a playmaker on ST, and he certainly can catch the ball. Even if he only has 10-15 catches that to me would still be impactful.

[display name]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1309490776' post='702889']
I can't say you are wrong, because at this point none of us know anything about how these guy will fit into the offense, but why don't u see Hardy getting 25 recs?

LeRon McClain had 21 recs last season, and has had at least 19 recs over the last 3 years. Using McClain in the passing game isn't a bad option, but i wouldn't really consider him a guy that had to get touches in the passing game. So if McClain comes back, at least half of his catches could go to one of the younger guys. I'm thinking Hardy.

I've said that I feel Flacco will be in the 540+ attempt range this season. He'll complete 350+ of those passes and this is how i see the breakdown.

Boldin 85 catches
Mason 64 catches
Rice 46 catches
Heap 47 catches
Smith 33 catches
Dickson 28 catches
Hardy 20 catches
Pitta 11 catches
Reed 10 catches
Doss 4 catches
McClain 4 catches
Allen/Steele 3 catches

How much do you agree/disagree with these reception totals? I think these number will be pretty close to what we will see from the passing game this year.
[/quote]
Well I think you overestimated the receiving production of Pitta and Hardy again and underestimated that of McClain and Doss. Other than that, it looks almost exacly like my REC list.

[Ngata92NT]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309460344' post='702699']
And we had how many young receiver's to learn from them last year? hmmmm.... A bunch of special teamers who will amount to nothing more than that

You assume an awful lot.

And yes because they are not elite talents I don't think they will make an immediate impact. And how is that justified look how highly people thought of Bryant and Crabtree were praised coming out, exactly what have they done.
[/quote]

Which is why we drafted some young receivers... and I think Reed has the potential to be more than just a special teams player.

No one excepts them to have the kind of impact an elite receiver would but that doesn't mean they can't have an impact at all. With how slow and stale our passing game was last year just having some fresh legs and speed will make a difference.

And I don't know how you can fault Bryant for 45 receptions, 561 yards and 6 touchdowns when he only started in 2 games, only played in 12 total and was injured the rest of the season. The guy is an absolute beast and will be an elite receiver in this league if he doesn't keep messing up his life off the field.

[catty112]

I think Hardy could be a possible darkhorse in this wide receiver race. After Q and Mase he has the most production at the NFL level, even if it is 10 catches for 96 yards and 2 TDs in 2 years with Bills. He was slated to be a #1 pick in 2008 but likely dropped because of character issues (haven't heard that before around here). he has all the physical abilities and the college production but he just hasn't been able to stay healthy for a full NFL season. Plus his size and speed match Cam's Air Coryell system (6'5" 4.5 40).

Hopefully he can get some reps in different packages, most likely goal line situations where his size can bee best utilized.

That being said Smtih will most likely be the #3 receiver because he was drafted second and has what we have been lacking, speed. Plus he seems to be really motivated to make an impact, attending Mase's player workouts and going up to Jeresey to run routes and get some reps with Flacco.

Reed could possibly get some reps if he continutes to make a positive impact on ST and can stay healthy.

Doss as much as I would like to see him on the field probably won't see significant time untill Mason steps down unless he has a breakout TC and is the second coming of Anquan Boldin game 1 against the Steelers.

My expected depth chart would be:

1. Boldin
2. Mason
3. T.Smith
4. Hardy
5. Reed
6. Doss
7. M Smith (if kept for ST) otherwise Harper

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1309520680' post='702938']
Well I think you overestimated the receiving production of Pitta and Hardy again and underestimated that of McClain and Doss. Other than that, it looks almost exacly like my REC list.
[/quote]

My question is why? Why do u think i overestimated for Pitta/Hardy and underestimated McClain and Doss.

Because my thinking is this. Dennis Pitta was credited for 1 catch last season, however Flacco missed him deep on atleast 2 different occasions, and Pitta drew a defensive P.I in the endzone against the Texans. That should have been at least 4 catches for Pitta right there. Last year the Ravens offense was nowhere near as open and aggressive as i think we'll be this year, and we still ran a lot of 3TE sets. This year I can see us running that set even more. So Pitta going from what probably should have been 4-5 catches as a rookie, to 11 as a second year TE, isn't that far of a strecth to me.

With Hardy, again, I can speak on how he'll be used this year, but assuming he's healthy, he brings something that none of our other WRs do. A good combination of size and speed. Because he'll bring something to the offense that is needed, and no one else can, he'll be moved to the front of the line ahead of the other young guys imo. I know it sounds like a lot to have your #4/7th option on offense having 20+ catches, because our offense just hasn't done that, but it's really no a lot of catches. At 6'6" I'm sure the Ravens will give Hardy at least 1 jumpball opportunty per game. It would just be foolish to not try and take advantage of his mismatch potential. So even if that's his role and nothing more, 25 catches isn't a lot. Think about all the times last season we saw, Mason, Q, and Housh compete for jumballs and they fall incomplete last season. My thinking is, Hardy will get those opportunities this year. Also, he'll be a force in the redzone imo, so that adds even more opportunities for Hardy.

As for LeRon McClain, as i said, he's not a guy that you get the feeling of, oh that guy needs his touches in the passing game, like a Ray Rice. Most of McClains receptions over the past 3 years have come off of screens, and that was just to keep the defenses honest imo. Even if McClain returns, I just can't see him getting 20+ catches again. Now if McClain doesn't return, which is highly likely, can you see a true FB getting 20+ catches, especially when you have other options that are better? As a total, I can't see the guys behind Ray Rice getting more then 10-14 catches this year.

Tandon Doss, well I honestly think that at lot us who are looking forward to seeing this guy play will be highly disappointed this year. I just don't see where he gets time on the field barring injury. IMO he doesn't bring much to the offense that Mason, Q, and Heap don't. So with that, it'd be just like having Housh last season. Now that's not a bad thing, but when you have what will probably be better, or more so different weapons then Doss, I just can't see how you make sure he gets on the field come Sundays. Because there won't be any real OTA's and all they'll have is training camp, I can't see Doss outplaying Mason and forcing his way on the field. So I just think he'll be buried down the depth charts this year.

And for anyone thinking it, No, Doss being a hand picked selection of Flacco will not give him any kind of advantage to getting on the field.

So with that, how do you have that REC list, after Rice? Assuming Q, Mason, Smith, Heap, Dickson, and Rice are the top 6 guys. How do u see Hardy, Pitta, Reed, Doss, and any of the backup RBs falling into the offense?

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='catty112' timestamp='1309531465' post='702960']
I think Hardy could be a possible darkhorse in this wide receiver race. After Q and Mase he has the most production at the NFL level, even if it is 10 catches for 96 yards and 2 TDs in 2 years with Bills. He was slated to be a #1 pick in 2008 but likely dropped because of character issues (haven't heard that before around here). he has all the physical abilities and the college production but he just hasn't been able to stay healthy for a full NFL season. Plus his size and speed match Cam's Air Coryell system (6'5" 4.5 40).

Hopefully he can get some reps in different packages, most likely goal line situations where his size can bee best utilized.

That being said Smtih will most likely be the #3 receiver because he was drafted second and has what we have been lacking, speed. Plus he seems to be really motivated to make an impact, attending Mase's player workouts and going up to Jeresey to run routes and get some reps with Flacco.

Reed could possibly get some reps if he continutes to make a positive impact on ST and can stay healthy.

Doss as much as I would like to see him on the field probably won't see significant time untill Mason steps down unless he has a breakout TC and is the second coming of Anquan Boldin game 1 against the Steelers.

My expected depth chart would be:

1. Boldin
2. Mason
3. T.Smith
4. Hardy
5. Reed
6. Doss
7. M Smith (if kept for ST) otherwise Harper
[/quote]

I agree, especially with Hardy. Ozzie absolutely gushed over this guy all offseason, mentioning his name even when he wasn't even asked about Hardy or the WR position at times. Now just because Ozzie has huge plans for him, doesn't mean he'll play. He'll have to prove he belongs on the field and can help this offense. But as I said before, his combination of size and speed, brings something to this offense that 1). We Need 2) We don't have with anyone else.

Nobody is even talking about Brandon Jones. The guy has more production then any WR we have not named Boldin or Mason, and nobody is talking about him. Why, because Ozzie wasn't talking about his guy all offseason like he was with James Hardy.

The Ravens attempt the 2nd most deep passes last season, and we didn't have a single WR who could get behind the defense on a regular basis, or even win a majority of the jumpball when given the chance. Now we have add Torrey Smith, James Hardy, and have Dickson, Reed returning for their second years.

So if Flacco has as much say in the offense as expected, I think we'll be attempting even more passes deep down field. Smith, Hardy, Reed and Dickson should be the guys in position to compete for those deep passes.

[catty112]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1309532090' post='702962']
My question is why? Why do u think i overestimated for Pitta/Hardy and underestimated McClain and Doss.

Because my thinking is this. Dennis Pitta was credited for 1 catch last season, however Flacco missed him deep on atleast 2 different occasions, and Pitta drew a defensive P.I in the endzone against the Texans. That should have been at least 4 catches for Pitta right there. Last year the Ravens offense was nowhere near as open and aggressive as i think we'll be this year, and we still ran a lot of 3TE sets. This year I can see us running that set even more. So Pitta going from what probably should have been 4-5 catches as a rookie, to 11 as a second year TE, isn't that far of a strecth to me.

With Hardy, again, I can speak on how he'll be used this year, but assuming he's healthy, he brings something that none of our other WRs do. A good combination of size and speed. Because he'll bring something to the offense that is needed, and no one else can, he'll be moved to the front of the line ahead of the other young guys imo. I know it sounds like a lot to have your #4/7th option on offense having 20+ catches, because our offense just hasn't done that, but it's really no a lot of catches. At 6'6" I'm sure the Ravens will give Hardy at least 1 jumpball opportunty per game. It would just be foolish to not try and take advantage of his mismatch potential. So even if that's his role and nothing more, 25 catches isn't a lot. Think about all the times last season we saw, Mason, Q, and Housh compete for jumballs and they fall incomplete last season. My thinking is, Hardy will get those opportunities this year. Also, he'll be a force in the redzone imo, so that adds even more opportunities for Hardy.

As for LeRon McClain, as i said, he's not a guy that you get the feeling of, oh that guy needs his touches in the passing game, like a Ray Rice. Most of McClains receptions over the past 3 years have come off of screens, and that was just to keep the defenses honest imo. Even if McClain returns, I just can't see him getting 20+ catches again. Now if McClain doesn't return, which is highly likely, can you see a true FB getting 20+ catches, especially when you have other options that are better? As a total, I can't see the guys behind Ray Rice getting more then 10-14 catches this year.

Tandon Doss, well I honestly think that at lot us who are looking forward to seeing this guy play will be highly disappointed this year. I just don't see where he gets time on the field barring injury. IMO he doesn't bring much to the offense that Mason, Q, and Heap don't. So with that, it'd be just like having Housh last season. Now that's not a bad thing, but when you have what will probably be better, or more so different weapons then Doss, I just can't see how you make sure he gets on the field come Sundays. Because there won't be any real OTA's and all they'll have is training camp, I can't see Doss outplaying Mason and forcing his way on the field. So I just think he'll be buried down the depth charts this year.

And for anyone thinking it, No, Doss being a hand picked selection of Flacco will not give him any kind of advantage to getting on the field.

So with that, how do you have that REC list, after Rice? Assuming Q, Mason, Smith, Heap, Dickson, and Rice are the top 6 guys. How do u see Hardy, Pitta, Reed, Doss, and any of the backup RBs falling into the offense?
[/quote]


I agree with everything you've said but I feel that you are underestimating McClains contribution to the passing game this year (if he comes back). The reason I can see him getting 15-20 receptions is because most defenses don't expect the fullback to be part of the passing game, often letting him slip out in to the flats unnoticed. That and McClain is one of the better pass catching FBs in the league (even if he did miss that wide open TD pass against the Saints?)

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='catty112' timestamp='1309533364' post='702968']
I agree with everything you've said but I feel that you are underestimating McClains contribution to the passing game this year (if he comes back). The reason I can see him getting 15-20 receptions is because most defenses don't expect the fullback to be part of the passing game, often letting him slip out in to the flats unnoticed. That and McClain is one of the better pass catching FBs in the league (even if he did miss that wide open TD pass against the Saints?)
[/quote]

Oh I take nothing away from McClain and his abilities out of the backfield, he's a really good weapon. However imo, the Ravens offense were put in positions to use McClain where, now they potentially won't.

McClain will probably have more then the 4 catches I originally projected, but i still can't see the 20 catches he's averaged over the last 3 seasons.

There will be 6-9 guys that the offense will look to create plays and opportunites for before McClain imo. There won't be many times where the offense will say, ok lets take advantage of McClain's mismatch here, or go into a game saying, McClain will have a big day in the passing game.

As you mentioned McClain will be more of an afterthough, not only to the defense but to the offense as well. McClain will get some catches from making hisself avaliable when Flacco gets in trouble, and nothing is open down field.

I think McClain's production will be more about quality over quanity this year, that's if he comes back.

[display name]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1309532090' post='702962']
My question is why? Why do u think i overestimated for Pitta/Hardy and underestimated McClain and Doss.

Because my thinking is this. Dennis Pitta was credited for 1 catch last season, however Flacco missed him deep on atleast 2 different occasions, and Pitta drew a defensive P.I in the endzone against the Texans. That should have been at least 4 catches for Pitta right there. Last year the Ravens offense was nowhere near as open and aggressive as i think we'll be this year, and we still ran a lot of 3TE sets. This year I can see us running that set even more. So Pitta going from what probably should have been 4-5 catches as a rookie, to 11 as a second year TE, isn't that far of a strecth to me.

With Hardy, again, I can speak on how he'll be used this year, but assuming he's healthy, he brings something that none of our other WRs do. A good combination of size and speed. Because he'll bring something to the offense that is needed, and no one else can, he'll be moved to the front of the line ahead of the other young guys imo. I know it sounds like a lot to have your #4/7th option on offense having 20+ catches, because our offense just hasn't done that, but it's really no a lot of catches. At 6'6" I'm sure the Ravens will give Hardy at least 1 jumpball opportunty per game. It would just be foolish to not try and take advantage of his mismatch potential. So even if that's his role and nothing more, 25 catches isn't a lot. Think about all the times last season we saw, Mason, Q, and Housh compete for jumballs and they fall incomplete last season. My thinking is, Hardy will get those opportunities this year. Also, he'll be a force in the redzone imo, so that adds even more opportunities for Hardy.

As for LeRon McClain, as i said, he's not a guy that you get the feeling of, oh that guy needs his touches in the passing game, like a Ray Rice. Most of McClains receptions over the past 3 years have come off of screens, and that was just to keep the defenses honest imo. Even if McClain returns, I just can't see him getting 20+ catches again. Now if McClain doesn't return, which is highly likely, can you see a true FB getting 20+ catches, especially when you have other options that are better? As a total, I can't see the guys behind Ray Rice getting more then 10-14 catches this year.

Tandon Doss, well I honestly think that at lot us who are looking forward to seeing this guy play will be highly disappointed this year. I just don't see where he gets time on the field barring injury. IMO he doesn't bring much to the offense that Mason, Q, and Heap don't. So with that, it'd be just like having Housh last season. Now that's not a bad thing, but when you have what will probably be better, or more so different weapons then Doss, I just can't see how you make sure he gets on the field come Sundays. Because there won't be any real OTA's and all they'll have is training camp, I can't see Doss outplaying Mason and forcing his way on the field. So I just think he'll be buried down the depth charts this year.

And for anyone thinking it, No, Doss being a hand picked selection of Flacco will not give him any kind of advantage to getting on the field.

So with that, how do you have that REC list, after Rice? Assuming Q, Mason, Smith, Heap, Dickson, and Rice are the top 6 guys. How do u see Hardy, Pitta, Reed, Doss, and any of the backup RBs falling into the offense?
[/quote]
My complete receiving prediction list:
Anquan Boldin: 70 REC, 1,050 yards, 8 TDs
Derrick Mason: 60 REC, 750 yards, 6 TDs
Ray Rice: 55 REC, 500 yards, 2 TDs
Todd Heap: 45 REC, 550 yards, 4 TDs
Torrey Smith: 35 REC, 450 yards, 3 TDs
Ed Dickson: 20 REC, 220 yards, 2 TDs
LeRon McClain: 15 REC, 100 yards, 1 TD
Tandon Doss: 10 REC, 120 yards, 0 TDs
Willis McGahee: 10 REC, 85 yards, 1 TD
James Hardy: 7-8 REC, 100 yards, 2 TDs (if he makes the team)
David Reed: 5 REC, 80 yards, 1 TD
Allen/Parmele/Steele: 5 REC, 25 yards, 0 TDs
Denniss Pitta: 5 REC, 30 yards, 0 TDs
Marcus Smith: 1 REC, 5 yards, 0 TDs (if he makes the team)

[gabefergy]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1309544875' post='703021']
My complete receiving prediction list:
Anquan Boldin: 70 REC, 1,050 yards, 8 TDs
Derrick Mason: 60 REC, 750 yards, 6 TDs
Ray Rice: 55 REC, 500 yards, 2 TDs
Todd Heap: 45 REC, 550 yards, 4 TDs
Torrey Smith: 35 REC, 450 yards, 3 TDs
Ed Dickson: 20 REC, 220 yards, 2 TDs
LeRon McClain: 15 REC, 100 yards, 1 TD
Tandon Doss: 10 REC, 120 yards, 0 TDs
Willis McGahee: 10 REC, 85 yards, 1 TD
James Hardy: 7-8 REC, 100 yards, 2 TDs (if he makes the team)
David Reed: 5 REC, 80 yards, 1 TD
Allen/Parmele/Steele: 5 REC, 25 yards, 0 TDs
Denniss Pitta: 5 REC, 30 yards, 0 TDs
Marcus Smith: 1 REC, 5 yards, 0 TDs (if he makes the team)
[/quote]
A lot of people seem to think that Hardy is a lock to not only make the team, but be a solid contributor. I think its highly likely he wont even make the team--like you have here. A lot is going to depend on whether we have 53 or 56 man rosters. To my knowledge Hardy isnt a big ST contributor, which is something pretty much all 5th or 6th WRs are expected to do. Yeah, he has nice size and speed, but he is very unpolished when it comes to route-running.

I think your list is about what I would expect, but I kind of doubt McGahee is on the team and its looking questionable if Le'Ron returns as well. I think Rice will have 60+ receptions as well simply because he is such a mismatch coming out of the backfield and he is the check-down option on most plays. I am not really sure what to expect out of Boldin this year, but it wouldnt shock me if he catches 80+ balls.

[flynismo]

Boldin's going to rack up 80 catches - 1200 yards - 10 TD.He'll also be the only one to surpass 800 yards.

[Romo Ravens]

Boldin
Mason
Smith
Doss
Reed
Marcus Smith

That needs to be the group of WR's to make the final roster. I put Marcus Smith ahead of Hardy because of Smith's Special Teams contributions, and I'm contemplating putting David Reed ahead of Doss because of my man crush on Reed.

I think the stat sheet will look a little something like this come January:

Anquan Boldin: 80 catches, 1,190 yards. 6 TD's

D Mase: 50 catches, 890 yards, 7 TD's

Torrey Smith: 43 catches, 700 yards, 5 TD's

Tandon Doss: 18 catches, 220 yards, 2 TD

David Reed: 8 catches, 150 yards, 2 TD's (3 TD's on KO returns)

Marcus Smith will not play a snap as a WR, unless he's out to block.

--------------------------------

Ray Rice: 40 catches, 520 yards, 2 TD

--------------------------------

That puts Flacco at 3,670, and I didn't put the TE's. I see Flacco getting anywhere from 4,000 yards to 4,300 with 32 TD's and 10 INT's.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1309557485' post='703060']
David Reed: 8 catches, 150 yards, 2 TD's (3 TD's on KO returns)

Marcus Smith will not play a snap as a WR, unless he's out to block
[/quote]

You [i]really[/i] have man-crush on Reed.

Seriously, it's about time Marcus got his first official catch in the NFL.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1309558959' post='703066']
You [i]really[/i] have man-crush on Reed.

Seriously, it's about time Marcus got his first official catch in the NFL.
[/quote]

I agree with both statements, lol. I've been pulling for Marcus ever since we drafted him, and after he made that beauty of a catch against Tennessee.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1309544875' post='703021']
My complete receiving prediction list:
Anquan Boldin: 70 REC, 1,050 yards, 8 TDs
Derrick Mason: 60 REC, 750 yards, 6 TDs
Ray Rice: 55 REC, 500 yards, 2 TDs
Todd Heap: 45 REC, 550 yards, 4 TDs
Torrey Smith: 35 REC, 450 yards, 3 TDs
Ed Dickson: 20 REC, 220 yards, 2 TDs
LeRon McClain: 15 REC, 100 yards, 1 TD
Tandon Doss: 10 REC, 120 yards, 0 TDs
Willis McGahee: 10 REC, 85 yards, 1 TD
James Hardy: 7-8 REC, 100 yards, 2 TDs (if he makes the team)
David Reed: 5 REC, 80 yards, 1 TD
Allen/Parmele/Steele: 5 REC, 25 yards, 0 TDs
Denniss Pitta: 5 REC, 30 yards, 0 TDs
Marcus Smith: 1 REC, 5 yards, 0 TDs (if he makes the team)
[/quote]

That's a good list, and I could very well see it being close to that. Like you said before, we have things pretty much the same, with the exception of the bottom of the list.

Even though it's only a total of 6 catches, I don't see Marcus Smith nor anyone who's the 3rd string RB getting any catches this year. But of course we never know exactly how a full season will play out.

I actually think Pitta will have at least 1 catch of 30+ yards and a TD this season, so i clearly think his production will be higher then what you have.

But we both see the overall production being about the same.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1309556814' post='703057']
Boldin's going to rack up 80 catches - 1200 yards - 10 TD.He'll also be the only one to surpass 800 yards.
[/quote]

I agree with the 80 catches, but the 1200 yards and 10TDs, would be a huge season for Q.

For Q to have 1200 yards on 80 catches, would mean he's racking up 15 yards per catch. Boldin has never done that, not even once in his career. He's only had 10+ TDs in one season in his career.

Over his career Q averages about 13.1ypc and 7TDs. So the numbers you project would be huge for Q and even bigger for this Ravens offense.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1309557485' post='703060']
Boldin
Mason
Smith
Doss
Reed
Marcus Smith

That needs to be the group of WR's to make the final roster. [b]I put Marcus Smith ahead of Hardy because of Smith's Special Teams contributions,[/b] and I'm contemplating putting David Reed ahead of Doss because of my man crush on Reed.

I think the stat sheet will look a little something like this come January:

Anquan Boldin: 80 catches, 1,190 yards. 6 TD's

D Mase: 50 catches, 890 yards, 7 TD's

Torrey Smith: 43 catches, 700 yards, 5 TD's

Tandon Doss: 18 catches, 220 yards, 2 TD

David Reed: 8 catches, 150 yards, 2 TD's (3 TD's on KO returns)

Marcus Smith will not play a snap as a WR, unless he's out to block.

--------------------------------

Ray Rice: 40 catches, 520 yards, 2 TD

--------------------------------

That puts Flacco at 3,670, and I didn't put the TE's. I see Flacco getting anywhere from 4,000 yards to 4,300 with 32 TD's and 10 INT's.
[/quote]

I don't think Marcus Smith is that great of a special teamer to take up a WR spot again this year. In years past we could get away with it, because we never really had the depth at WR that we potentially have this year.

As for Hardy, I think the only way he doesn't make the final roster is if he doesn't remain healthy. What he's production level will be, depends on what he shows the coaches throughout camp and preseason.

Back to Marcus Smith, he'll have to step up as a WR this year or he'll be let go imo. The Ravens only have 2 WRs that are elgible for the Practice Squad this year(T. Smith and Doss) and it is highly unlikely that the Ravens will take the risk of stashing either guy on PS.

So if it comes down to a healthy Hardy vs M. Smith. My pick is Hardy. What does Smith potentially bring to the offense that Hardy can't? Hardy's size and speed alone makes him a potential deep threat and a huge red zone target. Both areas that the Ravens struggled tremendously in last season.

What does M. Smith bring to this offense that Boldin or Mason doesn't, with the exception of youth? What does M. Smith bring to this offense that Reed or Doss doesn't with the exception of a few extra year in the playbook?

So if Marcus Smith's only contribution to this team is special teams, he won't be on this roster after final cuts. Remember, the Ravens traded Prescott Burgess a couple years ago and he was one of our better young Special Teams guys.

I don't take anything away from the value of Special Teams, and the guys who are good at it, however Marcus Smith can be replaced on ST. David Reed arguably had a better season on special teams then Marcus Smith last season and Tandon Doss played a lot of special teams in college. So Marcus Smith hanging his hate on ST this year won't be enough to stick around imo.

Also, Dante Stallworth didn't play a lot of ST last season and he was our 4th WR. So Hardy not being a really good ST player really won't matter much imo.

If Hardy remains healthy, he could very well be apart of the young core that grows with Flacco in this offense. Would you really want to cut him and lose a potential part of your future, for a guy who plays decent on special teams?

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1309564303' post='703080']
I don't think Marcus Smith is that great of a special teamer to take up a WR spot again this year. In years past we could get away with it, because we never really had the depth at WR that we potentially have this year.

As for Hardy, I think the only way he doesn't make the final roster is if he doesn't remain healthy. What he's production level will be, depends on what he shows the coaches throughout camp and preseason.

Back to Marcus Smith, he'll have to step up as a WR this year or he'll be let go imo. The Ravens only have 2 WRs that are elgible for the Practice Squad this year(T. Smith and Doss) and it is highly unlikely that the Ravens will take the risk of stashing either guy on PS.

So if it comes down to a healthy Hardy vs M. Smith. My pick is Hardy. What does Smith potentially bring to the offense that Hardy can't? Hardy's size and speed alone makes him a potential deep threat and a huge red zone target. Both areas that the Ravens struggled tremendously in last season.

What does M. Smith bring to this offense that Boldin or Mason doesn't, with the exception of youth? What does M. Smith bring to this offense that Reed or Doss doesn't with the exception of a few extra year in the playbook?

So if Marcus Smith's only contribution to this team is special teams, he won't be on this roster after final cuts. Remember, the Ravens traded Prescott Burgess a couple years ago and he was one of our better young Special Teams guys.

I don't take anything away from the value of Special Teams, and the guys who are good at it, however Marcus Smith can be replaced on ST. David Reed arguably had a better season on special teams then Marcus Smith last season and Tandon Doss played a lot of special teams in college. So Marcus Smith hanging his hate on ST this year won't be enough to stick around imo.

Also, Dante Stallworth didn't play a lot of ST last season and he was our 4th WR. So Hardy not being a really good ST player really won't matter much imo.

If Hardy remains healthy, he could very well be apart of the young core that grows with Flacco in this offense. Would you really want to cut him and lose a potential part of your future, for a guy who plays decent on special teams?
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Your entire argument is based on what Hardy could be potentially, if he stays healthy. Meanwhile, Smith is a proven Special-Teamer. We all know that Harbaugh highly values ST, and if you paid attention last year, ST is what gave us a considerable edge in many games. Yeah, Koch and Cundiff did a great job kicking, but the gunners and blockers have to do their job too.

I'm not trying to knock Hardy, but he is far from a proven commodity. If he goes out and has an amazing Traning Camp and Preseason than I could see him making the team, but if he doesnt show anything special I would think the team will stick with what is proven.

[flynismo]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1309565254' post='703087']<br />Your entire argument is based on what Hardy could be potentially, if he stays healthy. Meanwhile, Smith is a proven Special-Teamer. We all know that Harbaugh highly values ST, and if you paid attention last year, ST is what gave us a considerable edge in many games. Yeah, Koch and Cundiff did a great job kicking, but the gunners and blockers have to do their job too.<br /><br />I'm not trying to knock Hardy, but he is far from a proven commodity. If he goes out and has an amazing Traning Camp and Preseason than I could see him making the team, but if he doesnt show anything special I would think the team will stick with what is proven.<br />[/quote]


yeah, I dunno where all this love is coming from for a guy who got cut from the Bills.

If we're talking potential (which is all we have to go on, since neither has done anything in the NFL yet), Torrey gets the nod from me well before Hardy. I think Torrey's ceiling is much higher.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1309565254' post='703087']
Your entire argument is based on what Hardy could be potentially, if he stays healthy. Meanwhile, Smith is a proven Special-Teamer. We all know that Harbaugh highly values ST, and if you paid attention last year, ST is what gave us a considerable edge in many games. Yeah, Koch and Cundiff did a great job kicking, but the gunners and blockers have to do their job too.

I'm not trying to knock Hardy, but he is far from a proven commodity. If he goes out and has an amazing Traning Camp and Preseason than I could see him making the team, but if he doesnt show anything special I would think the team will stick with what is proven.
[/quote]

Everything i've said has been based on Hardy staying healthy and actually proven something to the coaches, so it's not like i'm saying the guy is a lock to make the team or anything will be given to him.

What part of the offseason is not based on what a player potentially could or couldn't do? Everybody assumes Doss will have a impact this season, why? Because he was hand picked by Flacco? Doss, Smith, Reed, Hardy, Harper, Jones, Smith, Dickson, and Pitta are all going off of potential right now.

I've never said Hardy was a proven commodity, and while Smith is a proven Special teamer, it won't be enough to keep him around, "IF" he's outplayed at the WR position.

The reason why Ozzie Newsome is gushing over Hardy is based on potential, there's no way of knowing exactly what he or anyone else in this offense will do. The reason why so many people are mad with Cam, is because they saw the potential of our offense last season and we didn't live up to it. So it's all about potential, at the end of the day Hardy will have to go out and prove himself, and if he does, there is no way he gets cut for a guy who plays special teams only.

As I said before, there is no secret that the Ravens struggled with the vertical passing game, as well as production in the redzone. Both of these area are ones that Hardy can potentially help the Ravens in.

Smith is a really good special teamer, and yes Harbs hold a high regrad for it, but there is no way he takes a option away from Flacco and this passing game, for a special teams guy. Smith will have to make an impact as a WR this year, or atleast show potential to be apart of the future as a WR, or he'll be gone imo.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1309578664' post='703123']
yeah, I dunno where all this love is coming from for a guy who got cut from the Bills.

If we're talking potential (which is all we have to go on, since neither has done anything in the NFL yet), Torrey gets the nod from me well before Hardy. I think Torrey's ceiling is much higher.
[/quote]

First off most of the love is coming from the way Ozzie spoke so highly of the guy doing the offseason.

Yes we are talking potential, and yes Torrey will be regarded higher then Hardy right now, I don't think anyone will argue that.

But I personally think after Torrey Smith everything is wide open, and even sharing snaps with Torrey Smith is open depending on what certain players bring.

I think people look at Hardy, 6'5" 220 pounds and see that he's easily the biggest WR we have. From what Ozzie has mentioned, the Ravens brought Hardy in to provide a deep threat and redzone target. Now that Torrey Smith is added, and will probably be the main deep threat guy, Hardy will just be apart of that.

When you look at everyone else on the roster after Q, Mason, and Torrey, nobody brings what Hardy potentially can.

We all see Doss has the potential to make plays down field, but from what Ozzie has said, the Ravens don't view him in that deep threat light. They view him as more of a Boldin type. The deep threats will create space for him to work underneath and attack the seams.

David Reed is a guy who's not really a deep threat. He's a guy that could get deep, but he's more in that Mark Clayton mold. He's more shifty then fast, and his production will probably come from being in space more so then getting behind the defense. Much like a young Derrick Mason. YAC will be where he shines the most.

Marcus Smith isn't a deep threat, and hasn't shown any potential from the WR position at all. But from what he was in college and the little he showed in his rookie year, he's more of a catch and run guy.

Brandon Jones is more of a possesion WR type. A guy who'll benefit from space being created by guys who can spread a defense out. YAC is his game, not being a deep threat.

Justin Harper is a guy who can create space and also get deep. He's shown the potential to create separation, but isn't consistent with is hands. I think a lot of us have completely written this guy off this season, but if he gets more cosistent at catching the ball, he can make some noise.

So, with the way Ozzie has spoken glowly of Hardy, often times without being asked. Hardy's size, speed, and atleticism combination, and the potential he brings to the team, in areas that we struggled, that none of the other guys seemingly do, Hardy has a really strong chance of making the team and having a impact on offense.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1309465279' post='702754']
It depends what you define as 'having an impact'. For example, I think that between them, Reed, Doss and Hardy could well reach a couple of hundred yards and a handful of TDs between them. To me, that means making an impact. If you think that making an impact means 500 yards each, then no way will they make that.

You could also look at it in the perspective of how much they have improved the team from last year. Being as our depth chart at WR might as well have consisted of just three WRs, they should make an impact that way.
[/quote]

Maybe so just not a fan of this WR by committee way of thinking. If you have your starting 3 which I believe will be Q/Mase/Smith, then behind that you are so unsure that you have to use 3 receiver's to get a a couple hundred and a handful of TD's just seems inefficient to me. If you know hardy and Doss are the future there (which I think they will be) then just let Reed do what he is good at which is winning the field position battle for us. If you have to split receptions between people when one of those players are better than the other 2 then you could probably get more production on the field out of that one guy then taking his chances and splitting it between 2 other's because somebody works really, really, hard but just isn't the kind of talent we need for that position.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1309461766' post='702717']
Marcus Smith will likely never do anything beyond special teams but how are you so sure Reed won't? Just as he was getting involved in the offense, he went down with an injury. Who knows what he could have brought to the offense. Based on the burst and toughness with which he returned kicks(and the one end around he had for 15 yards), he could have made a few plays in the receiving game.

Aren't you assuming a lot as well by projecting a player's career one year in?

Harbaugh has said a point of emphasis in fixing the offense in will be improving the running game so assuming it will be more efficient next season isn't outlandish. And I don't think proecting more than 64 passes and 11 passes for Q and Dickson respectively is assuming too much either.

Regardless, Reed, Torrey and Doss can learn from Q and Mase. Bringing back Houshmandzadeh to take snaps away from them and stunt their immediate growth would make little sense, especially considering we saw the results last season and T.J. has talked about wanting a bigger role.

Also, just because a player doesn't make an immediate impact doesn't mean he can't make an impact period. I go back to Sanders and Brown in Pittsburgh for examples.

Bryant was a play-maker once he hit the field and Crabtree had a solid rookie season.
[/quote]

Ok Watching his returns David Reed is not FAST, he is shifty, and does not go down on the first arm tackle. The return against the texans they had a linebacker staying step for step with him while his "burst" was getting him down the field. And no I dont think it is assuming to much, when we got Marcus smith in the third, I said wow another guy that wont ever do anything for us!! Awesome !!! Has he , on special teams yeah, on the field no not at all. So yeah there are some of those guys you can just tell, and now especially with the receiver's we just drafted don't expect Reed to be playing a lot of WR's.

When it comes to Harbs fixing the offense, I like what he said. Not because I think he can tell Cam Cameron a lot of things he does not know about offense if there is anything at all. I do however like the fact that he has identified a problem and is bound to fix it. But to assume he has gotten involved and brought a myriad of offensive brilliance to this offense is lofty. What he could do though is say we surrounded you with talent, how about you pull your head out and use it.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1309462108' post='702720']
We aren't playing Madden Football, or 2k Football. Just because a WR is listed as #1, #2, or #3 on the depth chart doesn't mean that they'll be the only ones on the field.

As the #4 or #5, Hardy and Reed could see a good about of snaps, without the Ravens going 4 or 5 wides.

Each of those guys bring something different to the offense, or at least potentially.

It's very possible the Ravens could line up in 3TE 1WR sets, with Dickson, Heap, and Pitta on the field with Hardy split out wide, in attempt to take advantage of a size mismatch.

Mason and Boldin won't be on the field for every snap. So to suggest, a #4 or #5 will only see the field if the team goes 4 or 5 wide isn't accurate imo.
[/quote]

Definitely agree with you, I am not sure what I did to convince you I was thinking it madden terms, if it was that easy I would just take the cap off and go buy the best lol.

But yes to your 4 and 5 wide sets I PRAY we do and I hope we use more 4 wide then anything to give Joe options against the blitz assuming we are smart enough to give a hot route.

I just think that when you look at the receivers we finally have now I am not sure how Reed will have more than 2 or 3 reps a game. Now if he can truly help this team then I will be glad to be wrong, especially if it provides us the spark that we need. I will buy a David Reed jersey.

And yeah Boldin and Mason won't be in there every snap but I think one of them will be at all times, and Even if we run a 4 wide set then I still don't see him getting on the field if people can stay healthy.I am just not sure what this is all about he seems like an average athlete and brings skill sets that we are already surplussed at.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309701073' post='703325']
Maybe so just not a fan of this WR by committee way of thinking. If you have your starting 3 which I believe will be Q/Mase/Smith, then behind that you are so unsure that you have to use 3 receiver's to get a a couple hundred and a handful of TD's just seems inefficient to me. If you know hardy and Doss are the future there (which I think they will be) then just let Reed do what he is good at which is winning the field position battle for us. If you have to split receptions between people when one of those players are better than the other 2 then you could probably get more production on the field out of that one guy then taking his chances and splitting it between 2 other's because somebody works really, really, hard but just isn't the kind of talent we need for that position.
[/quote]

The thing is, the coaches might believe that any of the young guys we have there might blossom into the future of the franchise at WR. I'm sure I read a quote from Harbaugh that he believes that David Reed could be special and has a lot of potential. That leads me to believe that, while he'll probably have the bulk of the KR duties because he is good with them, he'll get a chance to prove himself within the offense. While they're all in their young years, I'm happy for them to rotate so that they get fairly equal opportunity to demonstrate their talent.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309702760' post='703329']
Definitely agree with you, I am not sure what I did to convince you I was thinking it madden terms, if it was that easy I would just take the cap off and go buy the best lol.

But yes to your 4 and 5 wide sets I PRAY we do and I hope we use more 4 wide then anything to give Joe options against the blitz assuming we are smart enough to give a hot route.

I just think that when you look at the receivers we finally have now I am not sure how Reed will have more than 2 or 3 reps a game. Now if he can truly help this team then I will be glad to be wrong, especially if it provides us the spark that we need. I will buy a David Reed jersey.

And yeah Boldin and Mason won't be in there every snap but I think one of them will be at all times, and Even if we run a 4 wide set then I still don't see him getting on the field if people can stay healthy.I am just not sure what this is all about he seems like an average athlete and brings skill sets that we are already surplussed at.
[/quote]

The Madden line comes from just the way the players are used. On Madden you don't have different players coming onto the field in different formation. You won't have your #3 and #4 WRs lined up in a 2 WR, unless you manually sub them in. In video games, your #1 and #2 WRs will stay on the field pretty much the whole game. That's all i was saying there.

As for the 4/5WR sets, I think we'll use them a lot. I don't think we'll be a spread you out and throw the ball 40-50 times a game offense, but we'll use those formations and find away to get all 3 TEs on the field at the same time.

As for David Reed, I don't see him getting on the field much this year, but he'll definitely have more production then last season. He brings a lot of the same things Mason does, as u mentioned. But I think his yac potential is greater then what Mason brings. David Reed will be another guy Flacco can throw to quick, but he out runs a LB or DB to pickup 15+ yards or so, just like Ray Rice. It's just being able to attack defenses in many different ways.

I agree with you about Reed getting 2-3 reps a game. Getting on the field 3 times a game would total to 48 chances for the entire season. If Reed gets a favorable matchup underneath the defense, or can win against man coverage at least 1 time a game, that would put him at 10-16 catches. I can't see him with much more production this year, though I may be wrong. I personally have him at about 10 catches for 150 yards and 2 TDs. If he gives you that as the #5 WR, I think that'd be good.

Once Mason retires next season, his time on the field will increase imo.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1309705669' post='703341']
The thing is, the coaches might believe that any of the young guys we have there might blossom into the future of the franchise at WR. I'm sure I read a quote from Harbaugh that he believes that David Reed could be special and has a lot of potential. That leads me to believe that, while he'll probably have the bulk of the KR duties because he is good with them, he'll get a chance to prove himself within the offense. While they're all in their young years, I'm happy for them to rotate so that they get fairly equal opportunity to demonstrate their talent.
[/quote]

Yea Harbs has spoken highly of David Reed last season, in terms of his potential as a WR.

As for the guys rotating to have equal opportunity to demonstrate their talent, I agree, but I think it more then that.

I actually think, these guys will be rotated, to attack defenses in many different ways. I think as fans it's a bit tough for us to see how all of these guys might fit into the offense because, we just haven't had the potential to have 5-6 guys actually contribute from the WR/TE position in one season.

Each one of the WRs behind Boldin and Mason bring something different to the table. Every one of these guys compliment each other well, and they compliment Flacco even better. Even the TEs.

Smith and Hardy potentially provides that deep threat that the Ravens so desperately need. While Smith will provide it from a speed standpoint, Hardy will provide it from a speed and size standpoint.

Doss and Reed seem to be underneath type WR who could potentially abuse the intermediate areas and seams of the defense. Both guys seem to be more quick then fast, and they both have really good hands, with physical styles of play.

Dickson provides that down-field play making ability from the TE position. You can move him all over the field to create mismatches. He's size and speed will potentially give him a advantage over most of the LBs and Safeties we play.

Pitta is a guy who could potentially destroy underneath coverages, and soft spots in the zone. Much like Doss and Reed, he'll be more of a possession type guy, but because others will be able to spread the defense out, he'll be matched up 1 on 1 a lot and that's where he'll produce big plays.

Ray Rice is Ray Rice, enough said.

Each one of these guys bring a unique talent to this offense, and all should be able to have a impact in the redzone.

Even without a strong running game, the Ravens should be able to create space and spread out a defense with these young guys. However, if the running game gets back to being dominant, the explosive potential of the offense just increases because of play action.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1309714191' post='703370']
Yea Harbs has spoken highly of David Reed last season, in terms of his potential as a WR.

As for the guys rotating to have equal opportunity to demonstrate their talent, I agree, but I think it more then that.

I actually think, these guys will be rotated, to attack defenses in many different ways. I think as fans it's a bit tough for us to see how all of these guys might fit into the offense because, we just haven't had the potential to have 5-6 guys actually contribute from the WR/TE position in one season.

Each one of the WRs behind Boldin and Mason bring something different to the table. Every one of these guys compliment each other well, and they compliment Flacco even better. Even the TEs.

Smith and Hardy potentially provides that deep threat that the Ravens so desperately need. While Smith will provide it from a speed standpoint, Hardy will provide it from a speed and size standpoint.

Doss and Reed seem to be underneath type WR who could potentially abuse the intermediate areas and seams of the defense. Both guys seem to be more quick then fast, and they both have really good hands, with physical styles of play.

Dickson provides that down-field play making ability from the TE position. You can move him all over the field to create mismatches. He's size and speed will potentially give him a advantage over most of the LBs and Safeties we play.

Pitta is a guy who could potentially destroy underneath coverages, and soft spots in the zone. Much like Doss and Reed, he'll be more of a possession type guy, but because others will be able to spread the defense out, he'll be matched up 1 on 1 a lot and that's where he'll produce big plays.

Ray Rice is Ray Rice, enough said.

Each one of these guys bring a unique talent to this offense, and all should be able to have a impact in the redzone.

Even without a strong running game, the Ravens should be able to create space and spread out a defense with these young guys. However, if the running game gets back to being dominant, the explosive potential of the offense just increases because of play action.
[/quote]

Yeah, exactly. The main part that is still up in the air, however, is the protection we need to give Joe so that all of these things can happen. If Gaither is re-signed and we sign a guy to back up/be tutored by Birk then we are good.