Everything To Do With Ravens 2011 WRs

[display name]

The WR position, as well as at corner, is very overcrowded and it will be tough deciding who needs to go. Thoughts?
My 2011 WR Depth Chart:

Anquan Boldin Derrick Mason
Torrey Smith Tandon Doss (and maybe Housh if it's a 56-man roster)
Marcus Smith David Reed

[1/28/01]

Think you merged question 3 and 4...

[Ravens Lover]

I would love to have Housh back, he is a great possession receiver that can contribute at crucial points in the game (ex. 1st Steelers game). But with Reed and Smith I dont think its a must. Hopefully Smith will get far more reps than Stallworth did last year. I think he and Reed should compete for the third receiver slot

[1/28/01]

The only real question is number 1....as evidenced by the poll results

[display name]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1309445857' post='702601']
Think you merged question 3 and 4...
[/quote]
I know, it wouldn't let me do another.

[gabefergy]

I love Housh, but I dont see room for him at WR even if the roster is expanded. I think Reed, Smith, and Doss need to be given as many snaps as possible.

[Corvus]

I really wish Stallworth could have actually been used this past season as we all do but the writing is on the wall for he or Housh Not returning. I am all for getting Torrey, Doss, Reed, and Hardy (heck even Harper or M. Smith if they make the final cut) all in the mix as soon as possible.

[zachmmckay]

m smith is just a great special teamer nothing more. i see torrey getting all the end arounds this year lol. but honestly im scared that cam wont use reed doss or smith enough

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='zachmmckay' timestamp='1309449773' post='702622']
m smith is just a great special teamer nothing more. i see torrey getting all the end arounds this year lol. but honestly im scared that cam wont use reed doss or smith enough
[/quote]

WR is arguably the toughest position to make the transition from college to the NFL, and first year WR don't really produce that often. Add that to the fact that there has been no mini camps, passing camps, or OTAs, that puts both Torrey Smith and Tandon Doss even farther behind the 8 ball.

Now in Smith's case, he's speed and apparent need for this offense will help him get on the field much quicker(if he adapts well).

Doss on the other hand, is more a combination of Housh, Boldin and Mason all rolled into one, but with more speed. Because of that, Doss will find it harder to see the field, especially early behind Boldin and Mason. The politics of the NFL might be ugly and unfair, but they are definitely alive and well.

Although Doss brings a lot more speed then Mason or Q, he still kind of falls into that possession type, catch and run guy. Because Mason and Q still thrive in their roles and Doss is a rookie, who will only have about 4-5 weeks to pick up the offense, I don't see him having a large role this year.

If you don't see a guy like Doss have a huge role, don't be so quick to blame Cam. It'll be tough to get any of these rookies on the field early, and because Doss will be stuck behind vets and some young guys, he won't see many opportunties.

5-10 catches might be all we see from Doss this year, and it won't necessarily be a bad thing.

[Ed_Reed20]

Even if the rosters were expanded, there would be little reason to re-sign Stallworth or Houshmandzadeh and I highly doubt either of them would want to return.

[757RavensFan]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1309457569' post='702670']
Even if the rosters were expanded, there would be little reason to re-sign Stallworth or Houshmandzadeh [b]and I highly doubt either of them would want to return.[/b]
[/quote]

They have both publicly stated that they would love to come back to the Ravens. Are you saying they wouldn't want to return b/c of their diminishing roles on offense?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='757RavensFan' timestamp='1309458579' post='702681']
They have both publicly stated that they would love to come back to the Ravens. Are you saying they wouldn't want to return b/c of their diminishing roles on offense?
[/quote]

Obviously. Recent comments from both suggest they're resigned to leaving as well.

[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/Articles/2011/06/LFW_6_29_-_Stallworth_and_Lions.aspx"]Stallworth[/url]

[url="http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/sports/ravens/former-ravens-player-houshmandzadeh-will-miss-team/article_3b64ed9c-a2c4-11e0-b4fb-001cc4c03286.html"]Houshmandzadeh[/url]

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

I want to bring a bit of realism to his thread. We did not draft a Andre or Calvin Johnson, or a Larry Fitzgerald. So to think that tandon Doss or david Reed are going to make an impact is almost laughable. they will be huge producer's in the future but not this year. In my honest opinion I did not see anything out of David Reed that jumped up and said that guy is going to be special. now with Doss and Torrey that is a different story. Tandon Doss will have a a one year learning curve then after that I think he could be a solid producer as a lot receiver. Torrey will only be useful because of his speedin early years, he is not going to light up score boards but what he is going to do is be able to take pressure off of the receivers that are going to be able to light people up, so in essence his role is almost equally as valuable. Now I would like housh to return because he is going to bring sure handedness, and a veteran savvy. With him we are going to have to many veterans with an incredible amount of knowledge that it would almost be impossible to permeate down to these young receivers's.

and could somebody please explain to me the hype around David reed, i think he is a special returner but have seen nothing that will lead me to believe this guy is going to become anything more than a great field position guy.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309459092' post='702688']
[b]I want to bring a bit of realism to his thread. We did not draft a Andre or Calvin Johnson, or a Larry Fitzgerald. So to think that tandon Doss or david Reed are going to make an impact is almost laughable. they will be huge producer's in the future but not this year.[/b] In my honest opinion I did not see anything out of David Reed that jumped up and said that guy is going to be special. now with Doss and Torrey that is a different story. Tandon Doss will have a a one year learning curve then after that I think he could be a solid producer as a lot receiver. Torrey will only be useful because of his speed, he is not going to light up score boards but what he is going to do is be able to take pressure off of the receivers that are going to be able to light people up, so in essence his role is almost equally as valuable. [b]Now I would like housh to return because he is going to bring sure handedness, and a veteran savvy. With him we are going to have to many veterans with an incredible amount of knowledge that it would almost be impossible to permeate down to these young receivers's[/b].

and could somebody please explain to me the hype around David reed, i think he is a special returner but have seen nothing that will lead me to believe this guy is going to become anything more than a great field position guy.
[/quote]

So because Doss and Reed aren't elite talents, it's laughable to suggest they could make an impact? I disagree.

Assuming the running game becomes more efficient and the offense gets bigger contributions from the likes of Boldin and Dickson and Torrey stays healthy, major contributions won't even be needed from Doss or Reed. Still, it's not out of the realm of possibility their roles could increase as the season wears on, much like we saw with Sanders and Brown on the Steelers last season.

It's ironic you mention Houshmandzadeh's "sure-handedness" when he led the WRs in drops last season. Even more ironic is the the talk of "knowledge" when we saw what stockpiling knowledgeable veterans did for this offense last season.

There's nothing wrong with Boldin and Mason's schooling Torrey, Doss and Reed while all the three see the field early.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309459092' post='702688']
I want to bring a bit of realism to his thread. We did not draft a Andre or Calvin Johnson, or a Larry Fitzgerald. So to think that tandon Doss or david Reed are going to make an impact is almost laughable. they will be huge producer's in the future but not this year. In my honest opinion I did not see anything out of David Reed that jumped up and said that guy is going to be special. now with Doss and Torrey that is a different story. Tandon Doss will have a a one year learning curve then after that I think he could be a solid producer as a lot receiver. Torrey will only be useful because of his speedin early years, he is not going to light up score boards but what he is going to do is be able to take pressure off of the receivers that are going to be able to light people up, so in essence his role is almost equally as valuable. Now I would like housh to return because he is going to bring sure handedness, and a veteran savvy. With him we are going to have to many veterans with an incredible amount of knowledge that it would almost be impossible to permeate down to these young receivers's.

and could somebody please explain to me the hype around David reed, i think he is a special returner but have seen nothing that will lead me to believe this guy is going to become anything more than a great field position guy.
[/quote]

How can you believe that the young WRs won't make an impact? There are only (subject to unlikely change) two others on the roster so to suggest that Torrey Smith, Doss, Reed or even Hardy to an extent won't make any impact at all is definitely extreme.

No ones expecting near 1,000 yards from any of them, but Smith could have 20-30 catches for about 400 odd yards if he's used correctly. Hardy could prove to be a great redzone target because of his size. I don't expect a great deal from either Reed or Doss this year, but I think they will make more impact than Stallworth and Reed did last year because that impact was almost minimal.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1309460150' post='702695']
[b]So because Doss nor Reed are elite talents, it's laughable to suggest they could make an impact?[/b] I disagree.

[b]Assuming the running game becomes more efficient and the offense gets bigger contributions from the likes of Boldin and Dickson and Torrey stays healthy, major contributions won't even be needed from Doss or Reed.[/b] Still, it's not out of the realm of possibility their roles could increase as the season wears on, much like we saw with Sanders and Brown on the Steelers last season.

It's ironic you mention Houshmandzadeh's "sure-handedness" when he led the WRs in drops last season. [b]Even more ironic is the the talk of "knowledge" when we saw what stockpiling knowledgeable veterans did for this offense last season. [/b]

There's nothing wrong with Boldin and Mason's schooling Torrey, Doss and Reed while all the three see the field early.
[/quote]

And we had how many young receiver's to learn from them last year? hmmmm.... A bunch of special teamers who will amount to nothing more than that

You assume an awful lot.

And yes because they are not elite talents I don't think they will make an immediate impact. And how is that justified look how highly people thought of Bryant and Crabtree were praised coming out, exactly what have they done.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1309460154' post='702696']
How can you believe that the young WRs won't make an impact? There are only (subject to unlikely change) two others on the roster so to suggest that Torrey Smith, Doss, Reed or even Hardy to an extent won't make any impact at all is definitely extreme.

No ones expecting near 1,000 yards from any of them, but Smith could have 20-30 catches for about 400 odd yards if he's used correctly. Hardy could prove to be a great redzone target because of his size. I don't expect a great deal from either Reed or Doss this year, but I think they will make more impact than Stallworth and Reed did last year because that impact was almost minimal.
[/quote]

Because Blodin and Mase will be starting, The slot receiver is up in the air bot more than likely Torrey Smith. So we run a 4 wide set, Well to be honest if you are the 4th receiver you are at that spot for a reason and it is not because you have wowed the coaches. So you are going to have 3 guys competing for one spot and probably be utilized in different packages also limiting their reps. That being said between Doss, Reed, and Hardy exactly how many snaps do you think each will take considering how often we go to a four WR set.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='zachmmckay' timestamp='1309449773' post='702622']
m smith is just a great special teamer nothing more. i see torrey getting all the end arounds this year lol. but honestly im scared that cam wont use reed doss or smith enough
[/quote]

As for Torrey Smith, I have no doubts that he'll be used early and often. I know the bash Cam, everything is Cam's fault and Cam is the worse mood is still alive and well around here, but Cam isn't as bad as he'd made out to be.

The reason why I feel Torrey Smith will be used well, is I look back to way Ted Ginn was used in 07 with the Dolphins. Now before anyone jumps out at me, I'm not saying Smith is, nor should he strive to be Ted Ginn.

I'm not even saying, have no fear about Torrey being used, because of what Ted Ginn did in his rookie year. However, what i am saying is that Cam is fully capable of utilizing speed in his offense and I have no doubt that Smith will be used.

I see the Ravens passing more this season then any of the pervious 3. I see Flacco in that 540 attempt range. As a #3 last season Housh had about 35 catches and we weren't even a highly productive offense. I fully expect Torrey Smith to take that production that Housh is leaving behind.

The Ravens have spoken too much about how they needed his speed in the offense. So if no other young WR will be used, Torrey Smith will be used.

[big hits and ball hawks]

I don't think we should resign either because we already have enough guys and I don't think either side would benefit that much by keeping them. We also have young TEs in Dickson and Pitta that'll also be a part of the passing game. Maybe towards to the end of the season or in certain situations the younger guys will be on the field longer and more of them will get a shot, so Boldin and Mason can get rest.

I know we have a lot of unproven rookies and some guys who we don't really know what they can do, but I'm excited for this group of WRs we have.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309460417' post='702700']
Because Blodin and Mase will be starting, The slot receiver is up in the air bot more than likely Torrey Smith. So we run a 4 wide set, Well to be honest if you are the 4th receiver you are at that spot for a reason and it is not because you have wowed the coaches. So you are going to have 3 guys competing for one spot and probably be utilized in different packages also limiting their reps. That being said between Doss, Reed, and Hardy exactly how many snaps do you think each will take considering how often we go to a four WR set.
[/quote]

Your point about being a fourth receiver is a little unfair. I can't say I'd expect a rookie or a new face at all with little chemistry with Joe (something which this lockout has only made worse) to be able to beat out Boldin and Mason, with whom Joe has built up great chemistry.

Relatively, I don't expect Reed, Doss or Hardy to get many snaps compared to Boldin, Mason and to an extent Smith, but they have to get some time. If anything it's because Cam has no option but to use them this year. I expect probably 20-30 snaps for them each, probably in different situations. I don't expect miracles, nor do I expect a superstar to suddenly arise from one of them, but they will definitely make an impact.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1309461242' post='702709']
Your point about being a fourth receiver is a little unfair. I can't say I'd expect a rookie or a new face at all with little chemistry with Joe (something which this lockout has only made worse) to be able to beat out Boldin and Mason, with whom Joe has built up great chemistry.

Relatively, I don't expect Reed, Doss or Hardy to get many snaps compared to Boldin, Mason and to an extent Smith, but they have to get some time. If anything it's because Cam has no option but to use them this year. I expect probably [b]20-30 snaps for them each[/b], probably in different situations. [b]I don't expect miracles[/b], nor do I expect a superstar to suddenly arise from one of them, but [b]they will definitely make an impact[/b].
[/quote]

All of that to make an impact with that many snaps assuming they even have the YPC that an elite receiver has (which is an unfathomable stretch) the still have very little yards. So for them to make an impact it will be a miracle.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309459092' post='702688']
and could somebody please explain to me the hype around David reed, i think he is a special returner but have seen nothing that will lead me to believe this guy is going to become anything more than a great field position guy.
[/quote]

The hype surrounding David Reed comes striaght from the coaches and people inside the Castle who saw his practice habits and development much more then any of us fans did.

David Reed admittingly struggled to pick up the offense last season and that imo is one of the main reasons we didn't see much of him at WR.

Honestly right now, I'd say David Reed will probably be ahead of Smith, Doss and Hardy, because he's had a full season in the offense. However, I definitely see Torrey Smith, seeing a lot of action as the #3 WR.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1309461472' post='702711']
The hype surrounding David Reed comes striaght from the coaches and people inside the Castle who saw his practice habits and development much more then any of us fans did.

David Reed admittingly struggled to pick up the offense last season and that imo is one of the main reasons we didn't see much of him at WR.

Honestly right now, I'd say David Reed will probably be ahead of Smith, Doss and Hardy, because he's had a full season in the offense. However, I definitely see Torrey Smith, seeing a lot of action as the #3 WR.
[/quote]

Thank you, I was not sure where this came from. now that you said it though if he struggled to pick up the offense that does not inspire confidence. And to put him ahead of torrey and Hardy might be a bit premature. hardy is no rookie and has seen the pro game. Torrey has tools that he does not, but thanks for the explanation.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309460344' post='702699']
And we had how many young receiver's to learn from them last year? hmmmm.... A bunch of special teamers who will amount to nothing more than that

You assume an awful lot.

And yes because they are not elite talents I don't think they will make an immediate impact. And how is that justified look how highly people thought of Bryant and Crabtree were praised coming out, exactly what have they done.
[/quote]

Marcus Smith will likely never do anything beyond special teams but how are you so sure Reed won't? Just as he was getting involved in the offense, he went down with an injury. Who knows what he could have brought to the offense. Based on the burst and toughness with which he returned kicks(and the one end around he had for 15 yards), he could have made a few plays in the receiving game.

Aren't you assuming a lot as well by projecting a player's career one year in?

Harbaugh has said a point of emphasis in fixing the offense in will be improving the running game so assuming it will be more efficient next season isn't outlandish. And I don't think proecting more than 64 passes and 11 passes for Q and Dickson respectively is assuming too much either.

Regardless, Reed, Torrey and Doss can learn from Q and Mase. Bringing back Houshmandzadeh to take snaps away from them and stunt their immediate growth would make little sense, especially considering we saw the results last season and T.J. has talked about wanting a bigger role.

Also, just because a player doesn't make an immediate impact doesn't mean he can't make an impact period. I go back to Sanders and Brown in Pittsburgh for examples.

Bryant was a play-maker once he hit the field and Crabtree had a solid rookie season.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309460417' post='702700']
Because Blodin and Mase will be starting, The slot receiver is up in the air bot more than likely Torrey Smith. So we run a 4 wide set, Well to be honest if you are the 4th receiver you are at that spot for a reason and it is not because you have wowed the coaches. So you are going to have 3 guys competing for one spot and probably be utilized in different packages also limiting their reps. That being said between Doss, Reed, and Hardy exactly how many snaps do you think each will take considering how often we go to a four WR set.
[/quote]

We aren't playing Madden Football, or 2k Football. Just because a WR is listed as #1, #2, or #3 on the depth chart doesn't mean that they'll be the only ones on the field.

As the #4 or #5, Hardy and Reed could see a good about of snaps, without the Ravens going 4 or 5 wides.

Each of those guys bring something different to the offense, or at least potentially.

It's very possible the Ravens could line up in 3TE 1WR sets, with Dickson, Heap, and Pitta on the field with Hardy split out wide, in attempt to take advantage of a size mismatch.

Mason and Boldin won't be on the field for every snap. So to suggest, a #4 or #5 will only see the field if the team goes 4 or 5 wide isn't accurate imo.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309461655' post='702715']
Thank you, I was not sure where this came from. now that you said it though if he struggled to pick up the offense that does not inspire confidence. And to put him ahead of torrey and Hardy might be a bit premature. hardy is no rookie and has seen the pro game. Torrey has tools that he does not, but thanks for the explanation.
[/quote]

When i say David Reed is ahead, I mean only in terms of, he should know and understand the offense much better then any other young WR we have, except Harper and M. Smith.

As far as how things will play our during the season. I think both Hardy and Smith will see a lot more time and opportunites on offense then Reed will.

[flynismo]

What hype surrounds David Reed?? Lmaoi seriously think I'm the only person that has even mentioned him all off season; at least since the draft.And I wouldn't expect anyone to 'see' any reason why he'll contribute immediately, or ever, since he saw practically no time at WR last year.But to answer that, the kid looks like a fast Wes Welker. I think he's a gem, and may surprise a lot of people if / when he takes snaps away from Smith and Doss.

[Ravensfan23]

When we are talking about these young WRs, i think the most important thing to do is, establish what is considered "making a impact". In your opinion.

If you are lookin for Mike Williams(TB), Mike Wallace(PIT) DeSean Jackson(PHI), then you probably need to temper your expectations. Those guys were in situations where they were pretty much their teams #1 or #2 options. None of our young guys will be in that situation(without injury), because we still have a productive Q, Mason, and Heap, not to mention Rice. So there opportunites wont be as great as the guys mentioned above.

However, if you consider making a impact, as just providing the team with a play when it's needed, then our young guys could definitely make a huge impact for us this year.

From a production standpoint, if you are thinking about guys like Jacoby Ford(OAK) 25rec 470yds 2TD, Jordan Shipley(CIN) 52rec 500yds 3TD, Jordy Nelson(GB) 33rec 366yds 3TDs, then yes our young guys will make a impact.

I think what people need to understand is, the Ravens have a pretty strong passing game, we just needed a few elements to help our offense get to the next level.

You hear people talking about Cam using these guys right or getting them on the field is a must, well Boldin, Mason, and Heap aren't bad options. They are just guys that would be even more effective, if you have guys like Torrey Smith and James Hardy could can provide a deep threat.

I've said all offseason that I see Smith and Hardy combining for about 55 catches and about 7 TDs. Those catches will probably be split up with about 30 catches coming from Smith and 25 from Hardy.

I love the talent and protential of Doss and Reed, but right now, I just can't see them seeing much action with the people I project to be in front of them.

You got Boldin, Mason, Heap, Dickson, and Rice. Then add, Smith, Hardy, and even Pitta, thats a lot of catches to go around. Unless the Ravens turn into a real pass happy offense(which i don't see), there just won't be many opportunities for Reed and Doss imo, even Smith and Hardy will have to take full advantage of limited opportunites. There won't even be many catches avaliable for Dickson and Pitta, but I see those guys having much more on field action then Doss and Reed.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309461466' post='702710']
All of that to make an impact with that many snaps assuming they even have the YPC that an elite receiver has (which is an unfathomable stretch) the still have very little yards. So for them to make an impact it will be a miracle.
[/quote]

It depends what you define as 'having an impact'. For example, I think that between them, Reed, Doss and Hardy could well reach a couple of hundred yards and a handful of TDs between them. To me, that means making an impact. If you think that making an impact means 500 yards each, then no way will they make that.

You could also look at it in the perspective of how much they have improved the team from last year. Being as our depth chart at WR might as well have consisted of just three WRs, they should make an impact that way.

[display name]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1309464201' post='702745']
When we are talking about these young WRs, i think the most important thing to do is, establish what is considered "making a impact". In your opinion.

If you are lookin for Mike Williams(TB), Mike Wallace(PIT) DeSean Jackson(PHI), then you probably need to temper your expectations. Those guys were in situations where they were pretty much their teams #1 or #2 options. None of our young guys will be in that situation(without injury), because we still have a productive Q, Mason, and Heap, not to mention Rice. So there opportunites wont be as great as the guys mentioned above.

However, if you consider making a impact, as just providing the team with a play when it's needed, then our young guys could definitely make a huge impact for us this year.

From a production standpoint, if you are thinking about guys like Jacoby Ford(OAK) 25rec 470yds 2TD, Jordan Shipley(CIN) 52rec 500yds 3TD, Jordy Nelson(GB) 33rec 366yds 3TDs, then yes our young guys will make a impact.

I think what people need to understand is, the Ravens have a pretty strong passing game, we just needed a few elements to help our offense get to the next level.

You hear people talking about Cam using these guys right or getting them on the field is a must, well Boldin, Mason, and Heap aren't bad options. They are just guys that would be even more effective, if you have guys like Torrey Smith and James Hardy could can provide a deep threat.

I've said all offseason that I see Smith and Hardy combining for about 55 catches and about 7 TDs. Those catches will probably be split up with about 30 catches coming from Smith and 25 from Hardy.

I love the talent and protential of Doss and Reed, but right now, I just can't see them seeing much action with the people I project to be in front of them.

You got Boldin, Mason, Heap, Dickson, and Rice. Then add, Smith, Hardy, and even Pitta, thats a lot of catches to go around. Unless the Ravens turn into a real pass happy offense(which i don't see), there just won't be many opportunities for Reed and Doss imo, even Smith and Hardy will have to take full advantage of limited opportunites. There won't even be many catches avaliable for Dickson and Pitta, but I see those guys having much more on field action then Doss and Reed.
[/quote]
I doubt Hardy will have 25 REC in 2011. Maybe 10. Other than that, good post.