Sexy Rexy Or Harbaugh?

[flynismo]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309235204' post='701633']
And as true as they may be, the did not just magically appear when he got there, he took a loser into something that people are saying not even the vaunted Raven's defense can compare to talent wise. That is not an isolated incident, at least in my opinion.
[/quote]

Actually, I meant that Rex had better players on his defense here in Baltimore than our DC have had since he left.

[wayne]

I really think if we would have kept Rex we would have another SB by now. I like a element of Harbaugh with the positive - type - of - vibe deal but I feel our team is better built/ respond on putting a fire up under them. Imagine us last year with the team we had and our D could have closed alot of games out under Rex ( D could have made up for the O's second half woes ) and we would have got a 1st round bye with home field advantage. I know people will say our team wont be disciplined enough under Rex or Rex wouldn't have drafted like Harbaugh and company drafted but through all that, Rex would have found a way to get us over the edge. I actually like Rex demeanor, your coach suppose to be cocky and feel the team with good, high morale ( that mental toughness to feel you can destroy anyone which in turn would inspire players to play / respond better to their assignments which is a major faucet in any sports. The difference between a player being good or a bust is mostly mental b/c most players in the NFL is on a similar level as far as athletic ability.

........but I more than certainly believe we can win it all with Harbaugh so............

[Ngata92NT]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309188446' post='701304']
First of all If I recall correctly he got the touchdown, so that cost us field position how. It is not like he did anything super crazy. So that touchdown was the first points we got also if I remember correctly on that detail.

The fact that is pre-season is what makes it better especially than your theory of an AFCCG. If for some strange reason he got penalized for doing what players have been doing for years then it happened in a meaningless game not sometime it mattered.

Or what about Harbaugh asking Ray to stop doing his dance at the beginning of games, it ought to be interesting to see how you justify that. Do you think Rex would have ever made such a ridiculous head coach, especially if he hadn't even won a game or contributing anything to the franchise. I doubt it.

the best players should play the fact that McClain worked hard and earned his spot is great, however if Ellerbe is better than play him, dont care if you like him or night. And from tape I have seen indicates that ellerbe is the better player.

And I would like for somebody to give me a logical reason why what so many players have done before without consequence or negative repercussion's is just so disrespectful that he should be berated in front of everybody in a PRESEASON game.
[/quote]

I wasn't referring to the celebration when I was talking about Ellerbe costing us field position. I can recall several penalties being called on Ellerbe for simple, boneheaded mistakes. That's what cost us field position, and Ellerbe's celebration probably made Harbaugh react badly because he wants to see more discipline and self-control. You accuse Harbs of being disrespectful for berating a player (which is his job) but you don't find anything disrespectful about Ellerbe taunting the other team?

Harbs allowed Ray Lewis to continue his pregame celebration because it pumps up the team, it isn't disrespectful or offensive, and it doesn't have any chance of hurting the team. Harbs didn't understand the impact that Lewis' dance had on the fanbase and the players at first but he came to understand and support Ray.

You act like no player has ever been penalized for excessive celebration when it happens all the time. You should also NEVER celebrate before crossing the goal-line, which is common sense that any coach would teach.

I like how you call Harbaugh ridiculous and defend Ryan. You really think Harbs is more ridiculous than Ryan? Ryan is practically a standup comedian at times and you think Harbs is ridiculous?

Whether or not you think Ellerbe's actions were justified, you can't blame Harbaugh for wanting some discipline from a player who has shown a distinct lack of it at times.

I don't care if McClain starts over Ellerbe or visa versa as long as the best player for the team is on the field.

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1309191576' post='701324']
I'm not here to join the argument, just the mini-quarrel about Ellerbe. Are we really judging his entire character and demeanor off of a single play? One that occurred in Pre-season? That, to me, is unwarranted. Did Ellerbe recklessly place the ball in front of him, and take his time in crossing the plane? Yes, absolutely. But was he also doing back flips or falling to his knees afterwards? No. He simply jogged to the sideline. I don't recall his behavior to have been a significant issue otherwise, so what we saw was likely an isolated incident and should be treated as such until a similar event occurs. And if a player does decide to showboat, I'd rather him do so in a meaningless contest. I understand Ellerbe for wanting to celebrate his first NFL TD, and I also respect Harbaugh for setting him straight.
[/quote]

Listen, I'm not trying to bash Ellerbe or anything. I wish him the best and hope he can contribute to the team. I think his celebration was stupid and I understand why Harbs was yelling at him for it. It's okay to celebrate as long as you're in the endzone and you don't get a penalty. Ellerbe has discipline issues and makes mental mistakes on the football field in general; I'm not just talking about the celebration. I don't think the celebration is that big of a deal and I'm sure Harbs won't hold it against him as long as he keeps working to be a better football player. Ellerbe is very talented and athletic, I think he's already surpassed most expectations for a undrafted free agent. Harbs wants him to reach his full potential and if he needs to scream at him to get him to play with discipline then I fully support that.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1309241258' post='701652']
Listen, I'm not trying to bash Ellerbe or anything. I wish him the best and hope he can contribute to the team. I think his celebration was stupid and I understand why Harbs was yelling at him for it. It's okay to celebrate as long as you're in the endzone and you don't get a penalty. Ellerbe has discipline issues and makes mental mistakes on the football field in general; I'm not just talking about the celebration. I don't think the celebration is that big of a deal and I'm sure Harbs won't hold it against him as long as he keeps working to be a better football player. Ellerbe is very talented and athletic, I think he's already surpassed most expectations for a undrafted free agent. Harbs wants him to reach his full potential and if he needs to scream at him to get him to play with discipline then I fully support that.
[/quote]
I completely understand where you're coming from, and I agree with practically everything you've said. Although I'm almost positive that you can't be penalized before scoring unless you're taunting a player directly, it was unnecessary nonetheless. While we're on the subject, I do hope that he can become a better contributor, but with Jameel impressively working his tail off in this Offseason, I wonder if Ellerbe has already missed his chance.

[Fred Sanford]

I don't think the showboating in that preseason game is solely responsible for Ellerbe not seeing much PT. I've read somewhere that he's the type of guy who shows up late to film study, isn't prepared, falls asleep, all that kind of stuff.

Just like McAlister getting torched by Marvin Harrison was only part of a bigger problem when he got benched, I think Ellerbe's perceived immaturity and arrogance after a promising rookie campaign have set him back greatly. When you contrast that with the steady, humble, hard working approach of Jameel McClain, you can understand why Harbaugh favors the latter.

I think the front office attributed the downturn in 2007 to Billick's having lost the team by being too much of a players' coach. When they think of you as a friend, and not a leader, eventually they see you as a peer, and someone they can discount at will. The decision to go with Harbaugh rather than Ryan was an obvious move toward a disciplined and professional approach over one of passion. Much like with an army, the fired up approach has its benefits, but it can also lead to lack of discipline, wisdom, and mistakes when compared to a steadier style.

[Suggs Package]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1309240358' post='701651']
I really think if we would have kept Rex we would have another SB by now. I like a element of Harbaugh with the positive - type - of - vibe deal but I feel our team is better built/ respond on putting a fire up under them. Imagine us last year with the team we had and our D could have closed alot of games out under Rex ( D could have made up for the O's second half woes ) and we would have got a 1st round bye with home field advantage. I know people will say our team wont be disciplined enough under Rex or Rex wouldn't have drafted like Harbaugh and company drafted but through all that, Rex would have found a way to get us over the edge. I actually like Rex demeanor, your coach suppose to be cocky and feel the team with good, high morale ( that mental toughness to feel you can destroy anyone which in turn would inspire players to play / respond better to their assignments which is a major faucet in any sports. The difference between a player being good or a bust is mostly mental b/c most players in the NFL is on a similar level as far as athletic ability.

........but I more than certainly believe we can win it all with Harbaugh so............
[/quote]

Is there any way to combine the two haha?

I think the players like Rex because of he's fun to be around and is a good motivator. He makes playing football fun for his players. He is also a brilliant defensive strategist.

I think the owner and front office likes Harbaugh because he is very strict, and demands excellence from his players on and off the field. He also instills discipline into his players and it showed with our penalties being reduced dramatically.

In the end, it's the front office that makes the decisions. I think we chose someone like Harbaugh partially because he doesn't draw a lot of attention to himself. The NFL don't sell Rex Ryan jerseys, and in a way, he takes the attention away from the prized commodities.

I think Rex's style is better for a rebuilding team, or a team without a strong winning identity or culture. I think John's style is better for an established team who wants to stay relevant.

[Gordo52]

Easy. Rex Ryan. If he was still here our defense would have remained elite. Every player wants to play for him. I like his cockiness. He went to AFC championship twice with a team worst then the Ravens. Bart scott wouldnt have left. And i believe we would already had a superbowl. Sure Harbs is a great coach, but Rex is better. Flat out. Especially better fit on our team.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1309283062' post='701748']
Easy. Rex Ryan. [b]If he was still here our defense would have remained elite. Every player wants to play for him.[/b] I like his cockiness. [b]He went to AFC championship twice with a team worst then the Ravens. Bart scott wouldnt have left.[/b] And i believe we would already had a superbowl. [b]Sure Harbs is a great coach, but Rex is better. Flat out.[/b] Especially better fit on our team.
[/quote]

How would the defense have remained elite? The front office would still have had to address the QB, tackle and WR positions even if Rex had been hired. I highly doubt Ozzie would have made some the short-term moves Tannenbaum has made either. So again, how would the defense have been remained elite?

And what players do you know that don't want to play for Harbaugh? I ask because Rex-supporters frequently talk about players wanting to play for him like it's a meaningful advantage he has over other coaches. I don't see people spouting these claims about McCarthy, Payton and Tomlin, so why have they won it all in recent years?

The Jets haven't been noticeably worse than the Ravens the past two season. In fact, they've been better in a number of areas.

If Bart was re-signed, either Ray or Suggs would have had to have been let go. It amazes that some people still don't understand this.

Rex is a better defensive coach than John. As a head coach, it really isn't "flat out" who's better.

[Ngata92NT]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1309245223' post='701654']
I completely understand where you're coming from, and I agree with practically everything you've said. Although I'm almost positive that you can't be penalized before scoring unless you're taunting a player directly, it was unnecessary nonetheless. While we're on the subject, I do hope that he can become a better contributor, but with Jameel impressively working his tail off in this Offseason, I wonder if Ellerbe has already missed his chance.
[/quote]

The reason why you don't celebrate before the endzone isn't just because you might get penalized. It's because you might end up getting stripped from behind. It's happened on numerous occasions, including in the superbowl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTeqQY_T2mE

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1309290094' post='701786']
How would the defense have remained elite? The front office would still have had to address the QB, tackle and WR positions even if Rex had been hired. I highly doubt Ozzie would have made some the short-term moves Tannenbaum has made either. So again, how would the defense have been remained elite?

And what players do you know that don't want to play for Harbaugh? I ask because Rex-supporters frequently talk about players wanting to play for him like it's a beneficial advantage he has over other coaches. I don't see people spouting these claims about McCarthy, Payton and Tomlin, so why have they won it all in recent years?

If Bart was re-signed, either Ray or Suggs would have had to have been let go. It amazes that some people still don't understand this.

Rex is a better defensive coach than John. As a head coach, it really isn't "flat out" who's better.
[/quote]

Just because players like the coach doesn't mean they'll play better. If that was true Bill Belichick wouldn't be the most successful coach of our era; he's tough on his players, doesn't tolerate ANY bs (he benched Welker for making jokes outside the game!), and just happens to have won 3 super bowls. Rex might be a defensive mastermind, but he's not as good a team manager as guys the guys you mentioned. And once the salary cap comes back I think we'll see a completely different Jets team. It's not as if Rex's defenses are perfect... as we saw against the Patriots (45-3).

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1309283062' post='701748']
Easy. Rex Ryan. If he was still here our defense would have remained elite. Every player wants to play for him. I like his cockiness. He went to AFC championship twice with a team worst then the Ravens. Bart scott wouldnt have left. And i believe we would already had a superbowl. Sure Harbs is a great coach, but Rex is better. Flat out. Especially better fit on our team.
[/quote]
I love ridiculous statements like these...completely fact-less and with no substance what so ever!

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1309290938' post='701789']
The reason why you don't celebrate before the endzone isn't just because you might get penalized. It's because you might end up getting stripped from behind. It's happened on numerous occasions, including in the superbowl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTeqQY_T2mE



Just because players like the coach doesn't mean they'll play better. If that was true Bill Belichick wouldn't be the most successful coach of our era; he's tough on his players, doesn't tolerate ANY bs (he benched Welker for making jokes outside the game!), and just happens to have won 3 super bowls. Rex might be a defensive mastermind, but he's not as good a team manager as guys the guys you mentioned. And once the salary cap comes back I think we'll see a completely different Jets team. [b]It's not as if Rex's defenses are perfect... as we saw against the Patriots (45-3).[/b]
[/quote]

only problem is if you watch the ellerbe TOUCHDOWN again, you will see he had his back to the sideline so he could not be blind sided, had his eyes on the field so IF somebody were to be charging him he saw it. unless the camera man was going to strip it from him that was just as safe as if he would have walked in there anyway.

As far as the so called benching, he played that game he actually played right after the first series so yeah that was not really a benching at all, and not having your best players on the field is freakin stupid, unless they are a Aqib Talib, and so no and so forth.

Yeah and Lombardi, knoll, Van Brocklin, Walsh, Madden, LAndry, and Parcels arent perfect either but they won more than they lost. And last year Jets vs the Patriots Rex won more than he lost.

[lowrider]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1309290094' post='701786']
How would the defense have remained elite? The front office would still have had to address the QB, tackle and WR positions even if Rex had been hired. I highly doubt Ozzie would have made some the short-term moves Tannenbaum has made either. So again, how would the defense have been remained elite?

And what players do you know that don't want to play for Harbaugh? I ask because Rex-supporters frequently talk about players wanting to play for him like it's a meaningful advantage he has over other coaches. I don't see people spouting these claims about McCarthy, Payton and Tomlin, so why have they won it all in recent years?

The Jets haven't been noticeably worse than the Ravens the past two season. In fact, they've been better in a number of areas.

If Bart was re-signed, either Ray or Suggs would have had to have been let go. It amazes that some people still don't understand this.

Rex is a better defensive coach than John. As a head coach, it really isn't "flat out" who's better.
[/quote]
Thank you so much for posting this. What more do people want from Harbaugh? If Rice doesn't have his first fumble of the season at the worst time, if Flacco doesn't throw a stupid interception, if Matt Birk and Flacco don't fumble the snap, then we are looking at beating the Steelers on the road in the AFC Championship. Then there probably wouldn't even be this thread and there wouldn't be a question which coach we would rather have. Its not like Harbaugh didn't get them to play, it was the fact they were just off.

Rex Ryan isn't some miracle inspirational leader that transforms a team from the Bengals to Patriots in one season. He is a fantastic coach, but so is Harbaugh. I would love to see the statistic of how many coaches took their team to the playoffs in their first 3 years of coaching. Because when people talk about Flacco going to the playoffs three years in a row from his rookie season on, it is a respectable record. Harbaugh definitely deserves a great deal of credit for that.

[Ngata92NT]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309293652' post='701815']
only problem is if you watch the ellerbe TOUCHDOWN again, you will see he had his back to the sideline so he could not be blind sided, had his eyes on the field so IF somebody were to be charging him he saw it. unless the camera man was going to strip it from him that was just as safe as if he would have walked in there anyway.

As far as the so called benching, he played that game he actually played right after the first series so yeah that was not really a benching at all, and not having your best players on the field is freakin stupid, unless they are a Aqib Talib, and so no and so forth.

Yeah and Lombardi, knoll, Van Brocklin, Walsh, Madden, LAndry, and Parcels arent perfect either but they won more than they lost. And last year Jets vs the Patriots Rex won more than he lost.
[/quote]

Yes, you're absolutely right. We should encourage our players to do idiotic stunts in meaningless games because that's how successful teams operate right? The point of referencing Belichick's benching of Welker wasn't to say that they shouldn't have played him, it was to show that Belichick doesn't tolerate that kind of stuff. You called Harbs ridiculous for less than that, is Belichick ridiculous too?

I'm not really interested in continuing this conversation so I'll leave it at that.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1309294146' post='701818']
Yes, you're absolutely right. We should encourage our players to do idiotic stunts in meaningless games because that's how successful teams operate right? The point of referencing Belichick's benching of Welker wasn't to say that they shouldn't have played him, it was to show that Belichick doesn't tolerate that kind of stuff. You called Harbs ridiculous for less than that, is Belichick ridiculous too?

I'm not really interested in continuing this conversation so I'll leave it at that.
[/quote]

I called Harbs ridiculous for thinking that Ray should stop his dance. That was ridiculous and completely arrogant, egotistical, and just narcissistic on his part and will stand by that.

And no no no, you're right he SCORED points which is something nobody else did it was totally stupid for him to be proud of himself and so obsecen I heard they were going to take the points HE scored off the board, and to be honest for him it is not meaningless he was fighting for a spot and based on tape he was the 2nd best ILB on the.

Bellichik has won a super bowl has Harbs? Before you get to crazy on the Bellichik and Harbs conversation keep that. in mind.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

Harbs does deserve credit for going to the playoffs 3 seasons in a row, but lets not kid ourselves he was handed a loaded roster and the best GM in the game, so it is not like he has done anything spectacular, I think just about anybody could have walked into that position and done well.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309294633' post='701824']
Harbs does deserve credit for going to the playoffs 3 seasons in a row, but lets not kid ourselves he was handed a loaded roster and the best GM in the game, so it is not like he has done anything spectacular, I think just about anybody could have walked into that position and done well.
[/quote]
Really? You think anyone can resurrect a 5-11 team and take them to the playoffs...after losing several important defensive players...and starting a rookie QB...and missing your pro-bowl RB for much of the season. I'm not saying the roster was devoid of talent, but Harbaugh did a fantastic job with what he was given. No one thought the Ravens would be 11-5 in 08', but they just kept winning. I think a LOT of credit has to go to Harbs.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309294633' post='701824']
Harbs does deserve credit for going to the playoffs 3 seasons in a row, but lets not kid ourselves [b]he was handed a loaded roster[/b] and the best GM in the game, so it is not like he has done anything spectacular, I think just about anybody could have walked into that position and done well.
[/quote]

So you can make this statement about Rex...

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309235204' post='701633']
And as true as they may be, the did not just magically appear when he got there, he took a loser into something that people are saying not even the vaunted Raven's defense can compare to talent wise. That is not an isolated incident, at least in my opinion.
[/quote]

...but Harbaugh was handed a loaded team?

John has his flaws but the blind criticism people have for him and the exceedingly blind praise some Ravens fans have for Rex is just amazing.

[gilgamesh]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309294633' post='701824']
Harbs does deserve credit for going to the playoffs 3 seasons in a row, but lets not kid ourselves he was handed a loaded roster and the best GM in the game, so it is not like he has done anything spectacular, I think just about anybody could have walked into that position and done well.
[/quote]
So you should have the same argument against Rex. He inherited a 9-7 team(at one point int he season was considered the team to beat) and got them to a 9-7 record only after a team decided to rest their best players. That same team beat them later in the playoffs, so he would have probably missed the playoffs with an 8-8 record had Indy tried to win.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1309295220' post='701827']
Really? You think anyone can resurrect a 5-11 team and take them to the playoffs...after losing several important defensive players...and starting a rookie QB...and missing your pro-bowl RB for much of the season. I'm not saying the roster was devoid of talent, but Harbaugh did a fantastic job with what he was given. No one thought the Ravens would be 11-5 in 08', but they just kept winning. I think a LOT of credit has to go to Harbs.
[/quote]

Yes he lost a pro-bowl RB and then had a guy run for 902 yards who everyone knew was no slouch, a mauling offensive line, ray lewis who was still playing at the end of his prime ate age 32, the guy next to him was Bart Scott who played well, Haloti Ngata, Jim leanoard, Trevor Pryce, an ed reed who was two seasons removed form DPOY. Suggs, C-mac, and ROlle with a D coordinator who was at the top of his game on that side of the ball. that is a roster with 12 or 13 pro-bowlers which could have stood up to the rest of the league. So to say he did the best he could with what he was given is true, but it is not like it was a stretch to be 11-5.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

In my very first post which some people apparently did not read said that I like Harbaugh and though he was a good HC it was just that I preferred Rex.

[wayne]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309294633' post='701824']
Harbs does deserve credit for going to the playoffs 3 seasons in a row, but lets not kid ourselves he was handed a loaded roster and the best GM in the game, so it is not like he has done anything spectacular, I think just about anybody could have walked into that position and done well.
[/quote]
I wouldn't say " loaded" but the foundation for the team outside of a QB was already in place so I understand a little where you coming from. Harbaugh is a good coach on how he manages the team but as far as being a good coach actually putting a strong emphasis on offense and defensive play calls like coaches like Sean Payton ( draws up plays for the O ) or Rex Ryan ( draws up defensive plays for the defense ) who are actually head coaches and also the teams offense ( Payton ) and defensive ( Ryan ) coordinator, that has yet to be seen but he says he will work with Cam on the offense so we will get to see if he is a good coach in that sense.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309296221' post='701841']
In my very first post which some people apparently did not read said that I like Harbaugh and though he was a good HC it was just that I preferred Rex.
[/quote]

+1 for use of the smiley

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='gilgamesh' timestamp='1309295681' post='701837']
So you should have the same argument against Rex. He inherited a 9-7 team(at one point int he season was considered the team to beat) and got them to a 9-7 record only after a team decided to rest their best players. That same team beat them later in the playoffs, so he would have probably missed the playoffs with an 8-8 record had Indy tried to win.
[/quote]

And being honest in 2008 the jets were losers, their biggest weapon on O was thomas jones after that who did they have, Braylon edawards, Ben Hartsock, david clowney, maybe a rookie Sanchez, and on D they had revis, ellis, and harris. I would have taken the roster harbaugh was handed over that bunch of Garbage.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309296651' post='701845']
And being honest in 2008 the jets were losers, their biggest weapon on O was thomas jones after that who did they have, Braylon edawards, Ben Hartsock, david clowney, maybe a rookie Sanchez, and on D they had revis, ellis, and harris. I would have taken the roster harbaugh was handed over that bunch of Garbage.
[/quote]
The Jets had one of the best O-lines in the game and a very productive RB. On D they were stacked too, you can't legitimately argue that Rex took over a team that was significantly different than what Harbs got.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1309296377' post='701843']
I wouldn't say " loaded" but the foundation for the team outside of a QB was already in place so I understand a little where you coming from. [b]Harbaugh is a good coach on how he manages the team but as far as being a good coach actually putting a strong emphasis on offense and defensive play calls like coaches like Sean Payton ( draws up plays for the O ) or Rex Ryan ( draws up defensive plays for the defense ) who are actually head coaches and also the teams offense ( Payton ) and defensive ( Ryan ) coordinator, that has yet to be seen but he says he will work with Cam on the offense so we will get to see if he is a good coach in that sense.[/b]
[/quote]

Mike Preston reported Harbaugh worked extensively on the special teams units in '08 and with Mattison on defense last season. Harbaugh reportedly called for defensive changes after the Denver and Houston games. The only difference next season will be his involvement on offense. The point is, he's put an emphasis on different sides of the ball before. He wasn't calling plays but he had a hand in the schemes that were drawn up.

[wayne]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1309297788' post='701859']
Mike Preston reported Harbaugh worked extensively on the special teams units in '08 and with Mattison on defense last season. Harbaugh reportedly called for defensive changes after the Denver and Houston games. The only difference next season will be his involvement on offense. The point is, he's put an emphasis on different sides of the ball before. He wasn't calling plays but he had a hand in the schemes that were drawn up. Putting a emphasis on how he wants the O or D coordinator to call plays and actually drawing up the scheme to the plays is two huge different things.
[/quote]

Well, to reword what I mean, I literally mean drawing up plays and schemes and I doubt seriously if Harbaugh has did that. I can see him maybe drawing up something for special teams but that's special teams, not offense or deffense. Like I said, he seems to be a good coach from a standpoint of managing a team but not the Mike Martz style of a good coach as far as drawing up schemes ( X's and O's ).

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1309298542' post='701870']
Well, to reword what I mean, I literally mean drawing up plays and schemes and I doubt seriously if Harbaugh has did that. I can see him maybe drawing up something for special teams but that's special teams, not offense or deffense. Like I said, he seems to be a good coach from a standpoint of managing a team but not the Mike Martz style of a good coach as far as drawing up schemes ( X's and O's ).
[/quote]

How would he be an NFL head coach if he couldn't draw up plays for either offense or defense? He more than likely hasn't done it for offense since he was hired but he was a secondary coach for a year during his time with the Eagles. How would he be able to teach DBs if he didn't understand defensive concepts and the offensive schemes they attempted to stop?

[gilgamesh]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309296651' post='701845']
And being honest in 2008 the jets were losers, their biggest weapon on O was thomas jones after that who did they have, Braylon edawards, Ben Hartsock, david clowney, maybe a rookie Sanchez, and on D they had revis, ellis, and harris. I would have taken the roster harbaugh was handed over that bunch of Garbage.
[/quote]
Rexy didn't coach their 08 team, which are not a bunch of losers by the way. They had a monster OL and a good D. Thomas Jones was also a monster and had a battering ram in Tony Richardson to run behind. They lost late in the season because Favre likes to throw to the other team.

Rex inherited a decent O, just like Harbs. Both were run first teams, but Rex had a better OL, a great feature back, a two good change of pace backs. Flacco was better than Sanchez, so our receivers obviously did better than theirs, but both passing games were more of an afterthought than a feature. But for the record, you forgot their 2 best pass catchers in Cotchery and Keller.

You are not giving enough credit to the D Rex inherited. Revis, Harris, and Ellis are the big names, but there are other good defensive players that you didn't mention: Scott, Leonard, Rhodes, and Pace. 7-11 starters are good to great, along with a good rotation of DL and they really only had 2 positions that were lacking.

I'm not saying I don't like Rex, but this reasoning you have is a bit flawed since both inherited good personnel, but Jets had more success the prior season.

[wayne]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1309299200' post='701872']
How would he be an NFL head coach if he couldn't draw up plays for either offense or defense? He more than likely hasn't done it for offense since he was hired but he was a secondary coach for a year during his time with the Eagles. How would he be able to teach DBs if he didn't understand defensive concepts and the offensive schemes they attempted to stop?
[/quote]
Neva said he didn't understand defensive concepts and offensive schemes and neva said he couldn't draw up plays, just explaining the difference between HC's and I feel Harbaugh fits the " managing " category, not the Rex/ Payton category. Hell, we, the hardcore fans understand defensive concepts and offensive schemes but the key is getting that to work within your team. I don't think Harbaugh has drawn up any plays or schemes during his tenture here, he relies on his coordinators which is very understandable but to me the great coaches can at any time with the incompetence of the O or D coordinator, take over the play calling duties with success and that has yet to be seen with Harbaugh.

[Ravens Lover]

Even if I wasn't a Ravens fan Harbs would still be my favorite coach in the NFL. I just love his team first mentality and he wont accept stupid arrogance like the T.Os of the league and took us in one year from one of the least disciplined to the most disciplined team in the NFL.