Sexy Rexy Or Harbaugh?

[ravensgirl20]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1309149626' post='701238']
not even a question. hire harbs.. rex is a joke. i have lost a lot of respect for him because of how he carries himself and his team.. i respect someone who has high standards and carries themselves professionally
[/quote]

Exactly! The remarks from Rex alone makes me shake my head. I'm not going deny what he can do, I just don't care for the way he gets there. Better off with John a thousand percent.

[T-ray]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1309210504' post='701460']
Harbaugh took a team that had a losing year and took them to the playoffs with a rookie qb. I look at the Ravens now and all I see is swag and intensity. I think you are right. Ryan is the better defensive coordinator, I can agree to that. But Harbaugh has showed for 3 years in a row, that he can control a locker room, and constantly win. And I expect this year to be no different.

Being a coach is more than just being on the field. How Ryan handled the Revis contract situation was wreckless, and caused problems for renegotiating his contract. Harbaugh keeps it in house, and limits the damage and media. He is a great leader. Ryan will always be loved by his players. But that doesn't always mean they are a great coach.
[/quote]

Thanks for taking the time to read my post and coming up with counter arguments! I respect that. However:

1) The Jets were going through a rebuilding phase who with the wrong coach would've went haywire. I'm talking 4-12 haywire. We already had a great cast, especially on D (who was coached up by Ryan), just needed a franchise Qb to count on. The Jets were also coming off a dismal year in Ryan's first year. This point is null, and may even swing another point in my favor.

2) You say we play with swag and intensity. Compared to the Ryan led Jets we are robots. Compared to an ordinary team, we are calm. Before Harbaugh, almost every play we showed the other team that they needed to respect us and fear us. With Harbaugh, we haven't done that nearly as much, even on game breaking plays.

3) How did he handle the Revis situation wrecklessly?? Ryan was the main reason, and quite possibly the only reason, why Revis stayed. Revis had so much respect for Ryan that he agreed to come back for him. They even hung out and talked about it, which is good for opening channels of communication, which is crucial.

4) Harbaugh does keep it in his house. He keeps it in his doghouse, as evidenced by McAlister and Ellerbe. This 'doghouse' is hurting the team. We need to wake up and realize it exists, and has an adverse effect on us.

5) A great leader who is loved by players gets players to play their best. And I do believe that makes an excellent, winning coach.

6) You say Harbaugh can control a locker room and consistenly win. I say that Ryan has shown this same trait, which nullifies that point.

But thanks again!

[RavensAllTheWay]

Like I said, it's [i]very[/i] hard to come on here and tell you guys which one of them I would've hired since none of us are/were in Ozzie's position. Rex seemed logical, but there's a lot a GM knows that we don't.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Wacko4Zacko' timestamp='1309210282' post='701458']<br />A grown man calling another man Sexy Rexy....smh<br />[/quote]

are you implying that he is not the embodiment of male sexuality???



Lol

[T-ray]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1309211671' post='701480']
are you implying that he is not the embodiment of male sexuality???



Lol
[/quote]

I thought Rex was a model???

But still, there's no denying his talent haha.

[flynismo]

[quote name='T-ray' timestamp='1309210262' post='701456']<br />And, to add a little more to my original post.... Why did we look outside our organization, seemingly ignoring Rex Ryan's greatness/competitive nature, and hire a secondary coach who no one knew about? That just doesn't make sense to me. If you have someone in your own organization who has helped you immensely, and have an opening for him to move up, why not move that person up?<br />[/quote]

the answer to your question is probably a simple one. Meaning, Rex is not the kind of guy we want representing our organization in the public eye. How many 'foot scandals', unfulfilled predictions and other embarrassments has Harbaugh brought unto us by himself?

[lowrider]

[quote name='T-ray' timestamp='1309211166' post='701474']
Thanks for taking the time to read my post and coming up with counter arguments! I respect that. However:

1) The Jets were going through a rebuilding phase who with the wrong coach would've went haywire. I'm talking 4-12 haywire. We already had a great cast, especially on D (who was coached up by Ryan), just needed a franchise Qb to count on. The Jets were also coming off a dismal year in Ryan's first year. This point is null, and may even swing another point in my favor.

2) You say we play with swag and intensity. Compared to the Ryan led Jets we are robots. Compared to an ordinary team, we are calm. Before Harbaugh, almost every play we showed the other team that they needed to respect us and fear us. With Harbaugh, we haven't done that nearly as much, even on game breaking plays.

3) How did he handle the Revis situation wrecklessly?? Ryan was the main reason, and quite possibly the only reason, why Revis stayed. Revis had so much respect for Ryan that he agreed to come back for him. They even hung out and talked about it, which is good for opening channels of communication, which is crucial.

4) Harbaugh does keep it in his house. He keeps it in his doghouse, as evidenced by McAlister and Ellerbe. This 'doghouse' is hurting the team. We need to wake up and realize it exists, and has an adverse effect on us.

5) A great leader who is loved by players gets players to play their best. And I do believe that makes an excellent, winning coach.

6) You say Harbaugh can control a locker room and consistenly win. I say that Ryan has shown this same trait, which nullifies that point.

But thanks again!
[/quote]
2) To say that team A plays with more intensity than team B is an infallible argument and is mostly opinionated. To be a great team, the coach doesn't need to get their players to bash their skulls against each other for intensity. I love watching the Ravens in their pregame warmups because of how pumped up they get. Harbaugh has never been a hinderance to their intensity or swag. And if anything, Harbaugh promotes just as much confidence in his team saying that they are going to be a dynasty. He isn't in the media every week saying it to be a distraction to the team

3) There isn't any proof to say Ryan was one of the main reasons why Revis stayed or not. I'm not saying he isn't any part of the reason, but its just not an argument based on any facts, unless I missed something. Ryan before the contract scuffle, said that Revis was the best defensive player he has ever coached and stated it publicly. Now we all know Revis is an elite talent and maybe Ryan was right. But by saying what he did, when Revis wanted a new contract, he felt an obligation to be paid the most in the NFL. By being public with that, Ryan exposed his front office's hand to Revis and his agent and knew they had to pay up. Harbaugh knows Ngata is the best DT in the game, but isn't going to say anything publicly Ngata doesn't get this huge ego and expect ridiculous money. Talking to the media causes problems, thats just how it is.

4) Your right about his doghouse. I don't particularly understand it, and if I could complain about Harbaugh, that would be my one complaint. You can yell at a player and sit them for awhile (because Ellerbee needed to be put in his place), but wasting his talent hurt our team.

And overall, I don't think there is a losing situation between the two. I think they are both great coaches. And I think Rex is a better defensive coach. I respect how Rex gets his players to play for him every week, but he just talks to much. I look at the best coaches in the NFL, and the best don't talk much or keep it limited. Putting the focus on your team puts unwanted pressure. Harbaugh is just my preference.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1309210504' post='701460']
Harbaugh took a team that had a losing year and took them to the playoffs with a rookie qb. I look at the Ravens now and all I see is swag and intensity. I think you are right. Ryan is the better defensive coordinator, I can agree to that. But Harbaugh has showed for 3 years in a row, that he can control a locker room, and constantly win. And I expect this year to be no different.

Being a coach is more than just being on the field. How Ryan handled the Revis contract situation was wreckless, and caused problems for renegotiating his contract. Harbaugh keeps it in house, and limits the damage and media. He is a great leader. Ryan will always be loved by his players. But that doesn't always mean they are a great coach.

Edit: And he screamed at Ellerbee because he celebrated before he got in the endzone in a PRESEASON game, not because he made the good defensive play. No[b] hall of fame professional would have done that in a preseason game.[/b]
[/quote]

pretty sure randy moss did it a few times early in his career.

[Mick0311]

When you hire someone like Rex, your organization drops a bit in class. Look, I like the guy, but I don't want him as the face of the Ravens. The only time he shuts his mouth and shows his class is when the play of his team falls short of the hype coming out of his mouth. Look at week one last year. He talked and talked, until we beat him, then he was fill of "respect" at the podium. I would rather have Harbaugh who shows class at all times, even though I would like to get more than boilerplate answers out of him sometimes. I appreciate him for respecting the fact that he is important in the definition of the organization.

[big hits and ball hawks]

I don't know who I would've picked, I play Superstar mode on Madden not Franchise mode. I'm just kidding...I play both. Seriously though(without using things they've done since Harbaugh was hired because I wouldn't have known that so I can't really use it to argue which way I would've went), there's a good chance I'd pick Rex just because he's a great DC and like someone said before the transition would be a lot smoother. At the same time, I much prefer Harbaugh's no-nonsense approach for a HC, but that's just my opinion.

Also, I don't think anyone can use Harbaugh's first year as an example because Rex was still with us. You'd have to compare Rex's first two years with Harb's second and third. Sure Rex has gotten closer to the SB but I think you can contribute that to him being a better DC than Mattison, among other things. So maybe I'd hire Harbs and give Rex a raise to stay, if that would've worked.

I don't think we really lost out. Rex has been watching the SB the same way Harbs has been, from home. I also think Pagano will get us back to being more aggressive on defense and, in my opinion, will probably be that perfect balance between Ryan and Mattison.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309212853' post='701495']<br />pretty sure randy moss did it a few times early in his career.<br />[/quote]

even if that is true, you managed to find the one exception to every rule. There are a 100 Mannins, Bradys, Reeds, Lewis' to every Moss.

Simply put, elite players dont act like that. Harbaugh wants Ellerbe to be one, but before Ellerbe can play like one, he needs to have the mindset of one.

[flynismo]

You know, I love me some Sexy Rexy. I am thrilled to see him enjoying success in NY, and I was really torn on this decision because I really like what Harbs brings to the table as well.But I'm noticing that the arguments to keep Rex are either emotional or weak. Or both.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309209764' post='701453']
And how many times after that??? How many has rex done it ? Rex seems to have gotten it done way more than we have, especially recently, and yeah not sure that was so much a masterful game plan as it was ray rice deciding he hates the pats too.
[/quote]
Well, let's see.....we've played them once since the '09 playoffs. So, we really can't compare two divisional opponents and us vs. the Pats. But for sake of the board and me being lazy this off season (evidenced by my mild mannered behavior, ha), I will bow out.

Im just finding myself less energetic this year, so, you're right

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1309214376' post='701512']
You know, I love me some Sexy Rexy. I am thrilled to see him enjoying success in NY, and I was really torn on this decision because I really like what Harbs brings to the table as well.But I'm noticing that the arguments to keep Rex are either emotional or weak. Or both.
[/quote]

And all of the ones for harbaugh are the exact same thing, the only thing I hear is I like Harbaugh because I hate rex's mouth, or harbaugh is classy. I am just sayin classy does not win you football games, just ask bellichik when he thought it necessary to hang 40 and 50 points on people instead after spygate, he never took a knee and did the "classy" thing but they were hard to beat

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1309214586' post='701513']
Well, let's see.....we've played them once since the '09 playoffs. So, we really can't compare two divisional opponents and us vs. the Pats. But for sake of the board and me being lazy this off season (evidenced by my mild mannered behavior, ha), I will bow out.

Im just finding myself less energetic this year, so, you're right
[/quote]

That point was really meant to show that if rex were the coach we would probably have the defensive scheme's to get it done.

[Ed_Reed20]

For those [i]still[/i] criticizing Harbaugh for berating Ellerbe and deactivating him for a while(too long in my opinion), that incident wasn't the only instance in which Ellerbe made a questionable decision. He had a run-in with the law in college and reports from people that cover the team suggest he had a big head coming off a successful rookie campaign last off-season. Against the Falcons, he drew two needless penalties and loafed on Jason Selling's TD. Even when he returned against the Saints and seemingly had a good game, I remember Franchise noting him looking lost on some plays.

Again, I didn't like the fact that Ellerbe was inactive for so many games but there were enough negatives to justify him being benched.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309214711' post='701516']
That point was really meant to show that if rex were the coach we would probably have the defensive scheme's to get it done.
[/quote]

The defensive schemes haven't been the problem in the big games since Harbaugh took over. Yes, the D has declined in some ways but that was bound to happen after Flacco, Rice, Oher were drafted and the highly-drafted defensive players haven't contributed much. Still, it's been the offense that has failed more often than not.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1309215272' post='701520']
The defensive schemes haven't been the problem in the big games since Harbaugh took over. Yes, the D has declined in some ways but that was bound to happen when you draft Flacco, Rice, Oher and your top defensive guys haven't contributed much. Still, it's been the offense that has failed more often than not.
[/quote]

Ok to me the defensive schemes have changed immeasurably, but for the sake of being a listener, how have they not changed. I remember we used to be a lot more unpredictably, our blitzes used to be more efficient, we used to disguise it way better, and we did not rely on 3 and 4 guys to win the battle versus 5 or 6 guys.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309215432' post='701522']
Ok to me the defensive schemes have changed immeasurably, but for the sake of being a listener, how have they not changes. I remember we used to be a lot more unpredictably, our blitzes used to be more efficient, we used to disguise it way better, and we did not rely on 3 and 4 guys to win the battle versus 5 or 6 guys.
[/quote]

Nowhere in my post did I say the defensive schemes haven't changed. They were obviously less unpredictable and blitz-happy under Mattison. And for good reason because Mattison didn't have the same talent at his disposal as Rex did when he was here. My point was, despite the change in schemes, the D still performed relatively well.

To your last point though, I clearly remember Rex running a prevent D as Ben as the Steelers marched down the field in the second prime time game in '08. In fact, he did it again this past season against the Steelers.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1309215874' post='701525']
Nowhere in my post did I say the defensive schemes haven't changed. They were obviously less unpredictable and blitz-happy under Mattison. And for good reason because Mattison didn't have the same talent at his disposal as Rex did when he was here. My point was, despite the change in schemes, the D still performed relatively well.

To your last point though, I clearly remember Rex running a prevent D as Ben and the Steelers marched down the field in the second prime time game in '08. In fact, he did it again this past season against the Steelers.
[/quote]

I think the scheme changes where a huge problem. And we lost jimmy leonard, bart scott, and trevor pryce. Jimmy did blitz but not often, imo last year corry redding played better ball than trevor pryce last year.

To your second point, lets not get on the topic of how many games vanilla play calling on BOTH sides of the ball lost games for us.

[B_MORE5255]

anyway u look at it, i think Ozzie made the right choice, there could have been reasons that we dont know why Ozzie didnt hire him... all i have to say is i think he made the right choice

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309216061' post='701528']
I think the scheme changes where a huge problem. And we lost jimmy leonard, bart scott, and trevor pryce. Jimmy did blitz but not often, imo last year corry redding played better ball than trevor pryce last year.

To your second point, lets not get on the topic of how many games vanilla play calling on BOTH sides of the ball lost games for us.
[/quote]

I see this debate moving in the "scheme vs. players" direction but can you elaborate on why the scheme changes were a huge problem?

Leonhard and Scott [i]had[/i] to go and the coaches felt Pryce was expendable.

Redding outplayed Pryce overall last season but I still feel Rex clearly had better players when he was here.

That discussion would be likely lead into the "execution vs. scheme" debate. It can't be denied vanilla play-calling hurt the team last season but so did execution.

[flynismo]

,[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309214600' post='701514']&lt;br /&gt;And all of the ones for harbaugh are the exact same thing, the only thing I hear is I like Harbaugh because I hate rex's mouth, or harbaugh is classy.  I am just sayin classy does not win you football games, just ask bellichik when he thought it necessary to hang 40 and 50 points on people instead after spygate, he never took a knee and did the &amp;quot;classy&amp;quot; thing but they were hard to beat.br /&gt;[/quote]

new england also won 3 SB right before Spygate, so it's not really much of an argument to say that after he stopped being 'classy' they were hard to beat.

Especially since the 'classless' Belichick has yet to win a SBto

[flynismo]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309214711' post='701516']<br />That point was really meant to show that if rex were the coach we would probably have the defensive scheme's to get it done.<br />[/quote]

i think you are forgetting that Rex also had much better players on his defense.

At any rate, seems to me that our offense is what has cost us shots at the SB, not our defensive schemes.

[Wacko4Zacko]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1309211671' post='701480']
are you implying that he is not the embodiment of male sexuality???



Lol
[/quote]
It is a possibility. lol

[TDubbs]

I take Harbs over Rex all day every day. Harbs brings alot of pure classiness to the table, reflects well on a stand up organization. Im all for Harbs dog house when it comes to Ellerbe, he instills the fact that no player is bigger then the team and the ultimate goal.

[shawn ny]

I really like both and wish we could have kept rex at least for a few more seasons. I guess if someone put a gun to my head and made me choose then i would give it to rex hands down because his wife he some sweet feet......

[K-Dog]

both have strengths and weaknesses no doubt. Neither is a clear cut across the board better coach. My vote is for Harbs, based mostly on class. He runs the kind of team you can and should be proud of.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1309218121' post='701539']
i think you are forgetting that Rex also had much better players on his defense.

At any rate, seems to me that our offense is what has cost us shots at the SB, not our defensive schemes.
[/quote]

And as true as they may be, the did not just magically appear when he got there, he took a loser into something that people are saying not even the vaunted Raven's defense can compare to talent wise. That is not an isolated incident, at least in my opinion.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309235204' post='701633']
And as true as they may be, the did not just magically appear when he got there, [b]he took a loser into something that people are saying not even the vaunted Raven's defense can compare to talent wise. That is not an isolated incident[/b], at least in my opinion.
[/quote]

That defense already had talent before he got there. The additions of Bart, Cromarite, Leonhard and others have been huge but the Jets had foundational talent in Revis, Pace, Harris, Jenkins(even though he's been hurt for long stretches since Rex got there) and Ellis.

Still, I don't know who the people are that are saying the Ravens D can't compare to them.

What isn't an isolated incident? Him looking to acquire talent? Don't most coaches do that?