Tyrod Taylor

[gabefergy]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1310314721' post='705670']
Wow your hate of the scrambling Qb goes deeper than the fact that they use their legs. Seems like we have a difference of opinion, But lets for the sake of this argument point out facts. (1.) Michael Vick has one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Yes stronger than every QB you named and more. (2.) Michael Vick is the fastest starting Qb in the league. (3.) Vick may be the most exciting player to watch since Barry Sanders the( all time best to ever play the game.) So stats aren't everything but it is more than obvious that he is better than or as good as any pocket passing QB in this league. Hate it or love it......its still true.
[/quote]
I'm not sure how you deduce that Vick is better than or as good as any pocket passing QB in the league. That clearly isn't true. He has one good year and you are putting him up there with Manning, Brady, and Brees LMAO. Vick is a special talent, fun to watch, and a fantasy super-star, but anything beyond that is pure hyperbole.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1310315809' post='705677']
By the way, he was second to Brady after week 2, not week 4
[/quote]

Dang and I thought I was almost smart. Touche sir, touche.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1310331758' post='705804']
Dang and I thought I was almost smart. Touche sir, touche.
[/quote]
So close.....

[JaxFlaccoFan]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1310314721' post='705670']
Wow your hate of the scrambling Qb goes deeper than the fact that they use their legs. Seems like we have a difference of opinion, But lets for the sake of this argument point out facts. (1.) Michael Vick has one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Yes stronger than every QB you named and more. (2.) Michael Vick is the fastest starting Qb in the league. (3.) Vick may be the most exciting player to watch since Barry Sanders the( all time best to ever play the game.) So stats aren't everything but it is more than obvious that he is better than or as good as any pocket passing QB in this league. Hate it or love it......its still true.
[/quote]

You seem to be critical of Flacco because he hasn't won a Superbowl, but you praise Vick for being such a great QB. Vick has never won a Superbowl in 8 seasons. Vick has only won 2 playoff games in 8 seasons and has a losing playoff record. Granted, Vick had a good year last year, but look at his previous years. In 8 seasons he has had only one year where he completed over 60% of his passes (last year) and only one year where his QB rating was above 82 (last year). He has had only one year where he threw for more than 3,000 yards (last year just barely). I realize you need to consider his rushing stats in evaluating his performance, but still you have to consider his whole career, not just one year when evaluating a QB. Compare Vick's career stats versus Flacco's. I'll take Flacco.

[757RavensFan]

[quote name='JaxFlaccoFan' timestamp='1310353960' post='705908']
You seem to be critical of Flacco because he hasn't won a Superbowl, but you praise Vick for being such a great QB. Vick has never won a Superbowl in 8 seasons. Vick has only won 2 playoff games in 8 seasons and has a losing playoff record. Granted, Vick had a good year last year, but look at his previous years. In 8 seasons he has had only one year where he completed over 60% of his passes (last year) and only one year where his QB rating was above 82 (last year). He has had only one year where he threw for more than 3,000 yards (last year just barely). I realize you need to consider his rushing stats in evaluating his performance, but still you have to consider his whole career, not just one year when evaluating a QB. Compare Vick's career stats versus Flacco's. [b]I'll take Flacco[/b].
[/quote]

If Ravens fans could put the past legal stuff aside, I'm sure it would be a pretty close vote if they had to choose between Flacco and Vick.

[flynismo]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1310332153' post='705808']
So close.....
[/quote]

haha, I see what ya did there

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1310315603' post='705674']
it's moments like these that make me proud to be a Ravens fan.

*wipes tear from eye*d
[/quote]
So the mental lapses that he displays does not raise any eyebrows, or cause head scratching......lol the guy is good now, he will get better, but its up to him whether he takes the next step. He does have the tools though.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='757RavensFan' timestamp='1310356967' post='705915']
If Ravens fans could put the past legal stuff aside, I'm sure it would be a pretty close vote if they had to choose between Flacco and Vick.
[/quote]
Flacco is on a team that gets him the football back as much as any team in the league. Keeps him in position to win football games. Vick was really a one man show in Atlanta. Flacco and Vick really no comparison. Vick is better no matter who you will take. I can almost Guarantee with Vick on this team we win a super bowl at the very least that Troy Polamalu sack fumble would have been a non factor..Not to mention all those sacks Woodley and Harrison have accumulated during his reign.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1310326950' post='705770']
I'm not sure how you deduce that Vick is better than or as good as any pocket passing QB in the league. That clearly isn't true. He has one good year and you are putting him up there with Manning, Brady, and Brees LMAO. Vick is a special talent, fun to watch, and a fantasy super-star, but anything beyond that is pure hyperbole.
[/quote]
Manning 9-9 playoff record 1 ring. Best to ever play though right..Wow numbers in sports can be so misleading. It's never the teams and the coaching, just a win lost record, and a QB stats. I guarantee this, none of these so called greats, would have won as many games with that Atlanta Falcons team as Vick.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1310326950' post='705770']
I'm not sure how you deduce that Vick is better than or as good as any pocket passing QB in the league. That clearly isn't true. He has one good year and you are putting him up there with Manning, Brady, and Brees LMAO. Vick is a special talent, fun to watch, and a fantasy super-star, but anything beyond that is pure hyperbole.
[/quote]
Not sure what is funny. He really is as good as any one of them. That one good year that you are talking about is missing a few key elements. 1) He Only played in 12 games. 2) It was first year starting with that team. I could see if he had that team to start his career, and produced those numbers but that is not the case. Vick is as good, or better, than any other QB in this league, and i stand by that. The new season will be here soon enough. Oh and when you talk about Brady, Manning, Brees make sure you take into account the lack of hard hits they take also. The league seems to protect there pocket passing guys, probably because they can't move....lol Really cant believe that you or anyone else on here that watches this game doesn't see what is right in front of your face every Sunday. Remember the Vince Young pile drive from three Steelers players, had that been Brees someone may have got ejected. Tom Brady and Suggs brushing against him another missed call i guess but a player grazes Peyton's helmet on third and long [b]FLAG [/b]. Thats how they get their numbers, its not all missed calls. I guarantee ill be able to point out at least ten more this year alone.

[flynismo]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1310705354' post='707900']
So the mental lapses that he displays does not raise any eyebrows, or cause head scratching......lol the guy is good now, he will get better, but its up to him whether he takes the next step. He does have the tools though.
[/quote]


hey man, what can I say .... I'm a sucker for a good burn.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1310707081' post='707908']
Not sure what is funny. He really is as good as any one of them. That one good year that you are talking about is missing a few key elements. 1) He Only played in 12 games. 2) It was first year starting with that team. I could see if he had that team to start his career, and produced those numbers but that is not the case. Vick is as good, or better, than any other QB in this league, and i stand by that. The new season will be here soon enough. Oh and when you talk about Brady, Manning, Brees make sure you take into account the lack of hard hits they take also. The league seems to protect there pocket passing guys, probably because they can't move....lol Really cant believe that you or anyone else on here that watches this game doesn't see what is right in front of your face every Sunday. Remember the Vince Young pile drive from three Steelers players, had that been Brees someone may have got ejected. Tom Brady and Suggs brushing against him another missed call i guess but a player grazes Peyton's helmet on third and long [b]FLAG [/b]. Thats how they get their numbers, its not all missed calls. I guarantee ill be able to point out at least ten more this year alone.
[/quote]
Its a stretch to attribute pocket QBs success to penalties from late hits. If a "dual-threat" QB like Vick wants to run out of the pocket, he is inviting hits he doesn't have to take. But as far as comparing Vick to these other QBs they all have far better resumes. Each have won at least one ring, and have put up incredible passing statistics. Brady 50 TDs, Brees 5000 yds 70% completion rate, Manning has put up ridiculous numbers for an entire decade and won 4 MVPs. Vick is an amazing talent and I love watching him, but he has never been to a Super Bowl and until this past year never had a 60% completion or 3000yd passing season. What he can do with his feet does add another dimension, but until he wins a championship or at least puts together 3 or 4 comparable seasons to last year he is a step behind those 3.

If I could start my own team today I would rather have Brees, Brady, or Manning ahead of Vick and I think most people would agree with me as well.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1310705720' post='707902']
Flacco is on a team that gets him the football back as much as any team in the league. Keeps him in position to win football games. Vick was really a one man show in Atlanta. Flacco and Vick really no comparison. Vick is better no matter who you will take. I can almost Guarantee with Vick on this team we win a super bowl at the very least that Troy Polamalu sack fumble would have been a non factor..Not to mention all those sacks Woodley and Harrison have accumulated during his reign.
[/quote]

Vick is undersized and had previously struggled with accuracy.

Sure he's a better QB right now, but Vick was more of a highlight reel than a quarterback for a long time. I'm greatly impressed with Vick 2.0.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1310733265' post='707948']
Vick is undersized and had previously struggled with accuracy.

Sure he's a better QB right now, but Vick was more of a highlight reel than a quarterback for a long time. I'm greatly impressed with Vick 2.0.
[/quote]
Yeah, right here....

Let's see IF he can have another good year, because his previous years (in terms of being a successful, winning NFL QB) were pedestrian. Never more than 3k yards, never over 60% completion percentage and never more than 20 TD's.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1310711733' post='707911']
Its a stretch to attribute pocket QBs success to penalties from late hits. If a "dual-threat" QB like Vick wants to run out of the pocket, he is inviting hits he doesn't have to take. But as far as comparing Vick to these other QBs they all have far better resumes. Each have won at least one ring, and have put up incredible passing statistics. Brady 50 TDs, Brees 5000 yds 70% completion rate, Manning has put up ridiculous numbers for an entire decade and won 4 MVPs. Vick is an amazing talent and I love watching him, but he has never been to a Super Bowl and until this past year never had a 60% completion or 3000yd passing season. What he can do with his feet does add another dimension, but until he wins a championship or at least puts together 3 or 4 comparable seasons to last year he is a step behind those 3.

If I could start my own team today I would rather have Brees, Brady, or Manning ahead of Vick and I think most people would agree with me as well.
[/quote]
Now don't get me wrong i don't attribute all of their success to flags, plays have to be made as well. For the most part though, taking those hard hits in the pocket make you a little gun shy. Where these guys don't really take hits at all, because they are the so called faces of the league. Tom changed the game, one low hit and now the rules change. Peyton cried about receivers getting held the rule changed. Coincidence? Not at all. I love the game, but not enough to overlook what is right in front of me.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1310733733' post='707951']
Yeah, right here....

Let's see IF he can have another good year, because his previous years (in terms of being a successful, winning NFL QB) were pedestrian. Never more than 3k yards, never over 60% completion percentage and never more than 20 TD's.
[/quote]
Without looking this up he has had more than one 20 td season. [b]But has not had over a 15 int season.. Qb = manage the game.[/b] So do you think this guy with our D would have won a bowl? Im going with yes. He doesn't have to take alot of chances to win a football game. Just manage the game. Like big BEN. Ask Harrison.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309961195' post='704062']
Yes because winning 6 games is something to strive for. No thanks Ill take a guy who has the Best QB average in his first 3 years as a full time starter than anyone not named Ben.

The Jury is still out on a guy who was only second to Tom Brady after week 4. Your jury must have been at the OJ trial.lol. So to win over fans he has to be manning, brady, rivers, brees, ben, because those are the only ones who clearly out performed him. I think expectations need to be curbed considering every year he has gotten better but is still just a 4th year qb, who had no time to sit and learn he was the starter from day 1.
[/quote]
He won all those games on the back of a great defense, cmon now. Be realistic. Screen plays and a strong run game where the key to success in the last couple of years. Must be nice to have that extra receiver coming out of the backfield, when you stare him down its usually to late, he will beat the linebacker.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='JaxFlaccoFan' timestamp='1310353960' post='705908']
You seem to be critical of Flacco because he hasn't won a Superbowl, but you praise Vick for being such a great QB. Vick has never won a Superbowl in 8 seasons. Vick has only won 2 playoff games in 8 seasons and has a losing playoff record. Granted, Vick had a good year last year, but look at his previous years. In 8 seasons he has had only one year where he completed over 60% of his passes (last year) and only one year where his QB rating was above 82 (last year). He has had only one year where he threw for more than 3,000 yards (last year just barely). I realize you need to consider his rushing stats in evaluating his performance, but still you have to consider his whole career, not just one year when evaluating a QB. Compare Vick's career stats versus Flacco's. I'll take Flacco.
[/quote]
Not because he has not won a Superbowl with a strong defense but because yall build him up way to much lets try it like this.

1) Flacco stares down his receivers.
2) Holds on to the ball way to long.
3) Runs out of bounds taking a sack when he can throw the ball away.
4) Can't read a blitz with a safety at the line of scrimmage (but i guess that was Oher's, fault or some kind of O line issue. Especially the part where he fumbled the football.
5)Fumbles snaps, and throws picks at the most inopportune times, our side of the field with momentum changing to the other team.

Look I like the guy, But comparing him to Vick is ridiculous, i know he is young and will get better, but yall talk about the man like his game is up their with Mike's is crazy at this point. Flacco has alot to learn that's all im saying. If he struggles this year then what will it be? Married life getting to him? Cam not giving him enough space?........all of the above.....wow

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1310741817' post='708005']
Not because he has not won a Superbowl with a strong defense but because yall build him up way to much lets try it like this.

[b]1) Flacco stares down his receivers.
2) Holds on to the ball way to long.
3) Runs out of bounds taking a sack when he can throw the ball away.
4) Can't read a blitz with a safety at the line of scrimmage (but i guess that was Oher's, fault or some kind of O line issue. Especially the part where he fumbled the football.
5)Fumbles snaps, and throws picks at the most inopportune times, our side of the field with momentum changing to the other team. [/b]

Look I like the guy, But comparing him to Vick is ridiculous, i know he is young and will get better, but yall talk about the man like his game is up their with Mike's is crazy at this point. Flacco has alot to learn that's all im saying. If he struggles this year then what will it be? Married life getting to him? Cam not giving him enough space?........all of the above.....wow
[/quote]

I can careless what you opinion about Flacco is or isn't. Because you have every right to expect more out of Flacco before you compare him to some of the best QBs in the NFL.

However, why do you take isolated situations and make them out to be the overall makeup of Flacco?

Like #4. That safety blitz was successful against the Ravens twice all season. At least from a stand point where the safety had a free rush. Yet you say it like he consistently struggles with a Safety blitz.

There were atleast 4 other plays just like that, where Flacco beat the blitz or beat it for a TD. The game winning TD vs the Steelers being one of them.

Another thing that gets me. If Flacco struggles what will be the excuse? First off he hasn't struggled over the course of a season yet, He hasn't even really had a 4 or 5 game stretch where he's struggled. However if by some change he does struggle, people pointing out why he struggled won't be making excuses.

If by chance Flacco struggles, it won't be because he's a bad QB and it shouldn't change anyone's opinion of him honestly. If Flacco were to struggle this year, it's be because he just wasn't ready to take that next step in 2011.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1310740491' post='707992']
Without looking this up he has had more than one 20 td season. [b]But has not had over a 15 int season.. Qb = manage the game.[/b] So do you think this guy with our D would have won a bowl? Im going with yes. He doesn't have to take alot of chances to win a football game. Just manage the game. Like big BEN. Ask Harrison.
[/quote]
Look it up

[1/28/01]

Flaccos continued progression trumps all of Vicks seasons with exception to last years, and at this time its an isolated season. Again, we'll see if he can replicate it again this year.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1310733733' post='707951']
Yeah, right here....

Let's see IF he can have another good year, because his previous years (in terms of being a successful, winning NFL QB) were pedestrian. Never more than 3k yards, never over 60% completion percentage and never more than 20 TD's.
[/quote]
Aaron Rodgers is undersized too, I worry about him becoming a concussion case.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1310741090' post='708000']
He won all those games on the back of a great defense, cmon now. Be realistic. Screen plays and a strong run game where the key to success in the last couple of years. Must be nice to have that extra receiver coming out of the backfield, when you stare him down its usually to late, he will beat the linebacker.
[/quote]

Ok first off I am not the one that is being unrealistic.

So joe Flacco was one of the most successful Qb's in the league at throwing the deep ball with stats to back that up.

Ray Rice's production dipped this year compared to last and we had a better Offense. That includes a lower total in every statistical category.

And that extra receiver must be nice. Come on now. So Joe is less talented because of the weapon's he has around him, not sure that is a strong case for a debate.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1310744305' post='708031']
Look it up
[/quote]
Just did your turn. i told u.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1310767949' post='708214']
Ok first off I am not the one that is being unrealistic.

So joe Flacco was one of the most successful Qb's in the league at throwing the deep ball with stats to back that up.

Ray Rice's production dipped this year compared to last and we had a better Offense. That includes a lower total in every statistical category.

And that extra receiver must be nice. Come on now. So Joe is less talented because of the weapon's he has around him, not sure that is a strong case for a debate.
[/quote]
Stats aside do you think we had a better offense this year than last year? Joe is a very talented QB probably one of the best pocket passers in the game today. His ability to run a lil and his toughness and the fact that he plays in the strongest division in football are all factors. With that said, he is not better than Vick.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1310744471' post='708035']
Flaccos continued progression trumps all of Vicks seasons with exception to last years, and at this time its an isolated season. Again, we'll see if he can replicate it again this year.
[/quote]
That we will. Here is a piece of the article on Nfl.com


Marty Mornhinweg believes Michael Vick could be better than Hall of Fame quarterback Steve Young -- and he should know.

The Philadelphia Eagles' offensive coordinator not only coached Young during his last two Pro Bowl seasons in San Francisco in 1997 and 1998, he also coached Brett Favre in 1996 when the future Hall of Famer won his only Super Bowl title with the Green Bay Packers. Now Mornhinweg is in charge of Vick, and as he sees it, the sky's the limit.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

The first thing to go when you get old is SPEED. As Vick gets older he will get slower, like donovan McNabb and when he has to become just above average in mobility instead of phenomenal and has to rely on his arm we will see how good he is as a passer. Somehow I doubt that he will be in the top 5 when it comes to being your normal pocket passing QB.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1310778680' post='708300']
Just did your turn. i told u.
[/quote]
Dude, where are you looking where you've seen Vick exceed 20 TD's as a QB? He had last year (21, and I said other than last year) and ONE other year at 20 and THATS IT!!

[1/28/01]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1310779433' post='708306']
That we will. Here is a piece of the article on Nfl.com


Marty Mornhinweg believes Michael Vick could be better than Hall of Fame quarterback Steve Young -- and he should know.

The Philadelphia Eagles' offensive coordinator not only coached Young during his last two Pro Bowl seasons in San Francisco in 1997 and 1998, he also coached Brett Favre in 1996 when the future Hall of Famer won his only Super Bowl title with the Green Bay Packers. Now Mornhinweg is in charge of Vick, and as he sees it, the sky's the limit.
[/quote]
Just one dudes opinion......oh yeah, and this one dude happens to be his offensive coordinator. Of course he's going to sing his praises.

I don't doubt he can do it again this year, just find it funny that people seem to be all over Vick after one good year. He did nothing as Vick 1.0

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1310781634' post='708317']
Just one dudes opinion......oh yeah, and this one dude happens to be his offensive coordinator. Of course he's going to sing his praises.

I don't doubt he can do it again this year, just find it funny that people seem to be all over Vick after one good year. He did nothing as Vick 1.0
[/quote]
This one dude, also coached Steve Young, but what does he know right?