Everything To Do With Ravens 2011 CBs

[flynismo]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1308809621' post='700043']<br />Why not keep either?<br />[/quote]


i'm very happy with Smith, Foxworth and Webb as our top 3, and Chykie as a long term prospect.
I think our $ would be better spent elsewhere, such as OL or DL.

[JO_75]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1309109357' post='701057']
Why wouldn't Wilson want to come back? Why isn't Carr ahead of Webb? [b]Why is Smith ahead of everyone without seeing a single down of football?[/b] Why is Foxworth on the PUP list if he's healthy?
[/quote]

Everyone complains how we don't play our young guys and we can't see what they can do for us. I think it would be wise to start Jimmy Smith from the beginning. Signing Wilson who is also young to be a starter would only hurt Jimmy Smith plus in the Draft Video where the coaches talked to Smith on the phone when they Drafted him, Chuck Pagano said that he will be playing against the top WRs, meaning # 1 on the depth chart, which is where I'm getting at putting him at # 1.

Foxworth can say he is healthy but until he shows it in front of the coaches we won't know for sure which is why I said putting him on the PUP list just in case if he isn't healthy and ready to go like he said.

[flynismo]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1309111688' post='701070']<br />Everyone complains how we don't play our young guys and we can't see what they can do for us. I think it would be wise to start Jimmy Smith from the beginning. Signing Wilson who is also young to be a starter would only hurt Jimmy Smith plus in the Draft Video where the coaches talked to Smith on the phone when they Drafted him, Chuck Pagano said that he will be playing against the top WRs, meaning # 1 on the depth chart, which is where I'm getting at putting him at # 1.<br /><br />Foxworth can say he is healthy but until he shows it in front of the coaches we won't know for sure which is why I said putting him on the PUP list just in case if he isn't healthy and ready to go like he said.<br />[/quote]


can't just put a guy on PUP, especially when he has had a year to rehab and says he is fine.

Even if we did, then we find ourselves in potential cap trouble. Once he comes off PUP, we'll have all those CB on payroll. Either keep him or cut him. PUP would do nothing good for us.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1309111688' post='701070']
Everyone complains how we don't play our young guys and we can't see what they can do for us. I think it would be wise to start Jimmy Smith from the beginning. Signing Wilson who is also young to be a starter would only hurt Jimmy Smith plus in the Draft Video where the coaches talked to Smith on the phone when they Drafted him, Chuck Pagano said that he will be playing against the top WRs, meaning # 1 on the depth chart, which is where I'm getting at putting him at # 1.

Foxworth can say he is healthy but until he shows it in front of the coaches we won't know for sure which is why I said putting him on the PUP list just in case if he isn't healthy and ready to go like he said.
[/quote]

I saw the same video and I believe what Pagano said about Smith, however I can't see the Ravens putting Jimmy Smith out there game 1, in the middle of one of the best rivalries in the NFL and tell him to cover either Ward or Wallace.

I think Pagano telling Smith he'll be on the #1 was just to let him know what our expectations are, and as soon as he proves he's ready that's what he'll do. I don't think they'll just say, go out their and hold Wallace catchless. Those Ravens vs Steelers games are way too important and are usually decided by only one score, IMO that's too risky of a spot to put a rookie into, especially when you have other options.

Now i'm not saying he won't play in that game, but to say, hey Jimmy go lock down Ward or Wallace all game, I don't see it.

As for Foxworth, I guess it really is a what have you done for me lately league. I can't believe how people are just seemingly dismissing this guy with the level of play he showed to finish off the 2009 season. The guy had 3Ints and 6 pass breakups over the last 3 games of 2009. If he's healthy he'll be on the field starting from day one imo.

The same thing you said about Foxworth and his injury can be said about Jimmy Smith. The Ravens can say all they want, that he'll be matched up with the #1 WR every game. But until he proves he can handle that in his rookie year, we won't be consistently.

As for Wilson, I think we as Ravens fans, value him way more the others do and will. I keep hearing people say how tough it'll be to resign him because he'll go somewhere and start. I really don't see it. He'll have the opportunity to go somewhere and be a part of a rotation just like he was here last season. Even after Jimmy Smith was drafted Wilson has make his intentions of returning clear. He's been working out with Foxworth a lot, so he fully aware that Foxy is healthy right now. At this point I think it's strictly up to the Ravens. If they want Josh Wilson, then he'll return. If they feel comfortable with the guys under contract already, he'll walk.

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1308784249' post='699912']
Washington's going to be cut regardless, I'd say cut Foxworth if we think we have a legitimate shot at getting Nnamdi. Resigning Wilson should be a top priority, and I'd really really like to see Carr back as well, although if we get Aso that's probably not likely. 7 CB's seems like a lot to me, but in an ideal world I'd like to see:

Asomugha
Wilson
Smith
Carr
Webb
Williams
Brown
[/quote]
Farfetch'd, but i wouldn't want it any other way. Foxy coming off of any injury is prone on coming back healthy. He couldnt keep up with elite receivers, with a torn ACL there would be no chance. Washington had his chance. Even though small Wilson was a STUD since the day we signed him, Carr has elevated his game to where he could be a starter if not with Baltimore, with another franchise. I cant wait to see how Jimmy Smith converts. Webb will only get better, dont forget last season he also was coming off a serious ACL tear.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1309117854' post='701103']
Farfetch'd, but i wouldn't want it any other way. Foxy coming off of any injury is prone on coming back healthy.[b] He couldnt keep up with elite receivers, with a torn ACL there would be no chance[/b]. Washington had his chance. Even though small Wilson was a STUD since the day we signed him, Carr has elevated his game to where he could be a starter if not with Baltimore, with another franchise. I cant wait to see how Jimmy Smith converts. Webb will only get better, dont forget last season he also was coming off a serious ACL tear.
[/quote]

Exactly what Elite WRs was it he couldn't keep up with? And Wilson being a stud just isn't true.

Now i'm not saying that Foxworth played lights out or was lockdown, but he played as well as any CB in the NFL, not named Revis or Nnamdi during the last 6-8 games of the season. He really started to come into his own defensively and earn that contract.

Wilson was solid for us all season, but far from a stud. Josh had just as much struggles as anyone else in the secondary last season. Wilson added a much need physical presence to our secondary last season.

With the way the NFL is a pass first league now, retaining Wilson would definitely be a plus. Wilson would be a great insurance policy should Foxworth have any setbacks with the injury.

If everyone comes in healthy and ready to go, Foxworth will be at the top of the depth chart and everyone else will just fall in, depending on matchups and the team we're playing.

By mid season, Foxworth and Smith will probably be the top 2 guys. Webb and Wilson will play depending on their matchups, and Nakamura probably won't be used in coverage as much as he was last year.

[wayne]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1309114722' post='701083']
I saw the same video and I believe what Pagano said about Smith, however I can't see the Ravens putting Jimmy Smith out there game 1, in the middle of one of the best rivalries in the NFL and tell him to cover either Ward or Wallace.

I think Pagano telling Smith he'll be on the #1 was just to let him know what our expectations are, and as soon as he proves he's ready that's what he'll do. I don't think they'll just say, go out their and hold Wallace catchless. Those Ravens vs Steelers games are way too important and are usually decided by only one score, IMO that's too risky of a spot to put a rookie into, especially when you have other options.

Now i'm not saying he won't play in that game, but to say, hey Jimmy go lock down Ward or Wallace all game, I don't see it.

As for Foxworth, I guess it really is a what have you done for me lately league. I can't believe how people are just seemingly dismissing this guy with the level of play he showed to finish off the 2009 season. The guy had 3Ints and 6 pass breakups over the last 3 games of 2009. If he's healthy he'll be on the field starting from day one imo.

The same thing you said about Foxworth and his injury can be said about Jimmy Smith. The Ravens can say all they want, that he'll be matched up with the #1 WR every game. But until he proves he can handle that in his rookie year, we won't be consistently.

As for Wilson, I think we as Ravens fans, value him way more the others do and will. I keep hearing people say how tough it'll be to resign him because he'll go somewhere and start. I really don't see it. He'll have the opportunity to go somewhere and be a part of a rotation just like he was here last season. Even after Jimmy Smith was drafted Wilson has make his intentions of returning clear. He's been working out with Foxworth a lot, so he fully aware that Foxy is healthy right now. At this point I think it's strictly up to the Ravens. If they want Josh Wilson, then he'll return. If they feel comfortable with the guys under contract already, he'll walk.
[/quote]
Yea, we overrate Wilson on this forum a lot. I would take Foxworth in the last 6-8 games over Wilson last season play and that's not saying I don't want Wilson back but if he doesn't return we are still in great shape with Smith, Foxworth, Webb, and Carr. I doubt if any other team throws a huge contract toward Wilson, he played solid for us down the stretch but he didn't make that type pf noise for teams to be throwing the bank at him.

Also , I disagree dearly about Pagano not meaning what he said about starting Jimmy from Day 1. Also, I'm sure Pagano heavily influenced Ozzie on that pick and there is a strong possibility the Jimmy will be alot better than our incumbent CB's from Day 1 so I can easily see him guarding Ward out the gates 1st game of the season.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1309121823' post='701123']
[b]Yea, we overrate Wilson on this forum a lot. I would take Foxworth in the last 6-8 games over Wilson last season play and that's not saying I don't want Wilson back but if he doesn't return we are still in great shape with Smith, Foxworth, Webb, and Carr. I doubt if any other team throws a huge contract toward Wilson, he played solid for us down the stretch but he didn't make that type pf noise for teams to be throwing the bank at him.[/b]

Also , I disagree dearly about Pagano not meaning what he said about starting Jimmy from Day 1. Also, I'm sure Pagano heavily influenced Ozzie on that pick and there is a strong possibility the Jimmy will be alot better than our incumbent CB's from Day 1 so I can easily see him guarding Ward out the gates 1st game of the season.
[/quote]

People seemingly overrate him because he played [i]that[/i] well. He had his struggles against the Falcons, Panthers and Steelers in Week 13 but he played very good football for the most part.

Teams may not throw a lot of money at Wilson once free agency begins but he could be offered a similar contract to the one Foxworth got in '09.

[Blex64]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1309111688' post='701070']
Everyone complains how we don't play our young guys and we can't see what they can do for us. I think it would be wise to start Jimmy Smith from the beginning. Signing Wilson who is also young to be a starter would only hurt Jimmy Smith plus in the Draft Video where the coaches talked to Smith on the phone when they Drafted him, Chuck Pagano said that he will be playing against the top WRs, meaning # 1 on the depth chart, which is where I'm getting at putting him at # 1.

Foxworth can say he is healthy but until he shows it in front of the coaches we won't know for sure which is why I said putting him on the PUP list just in case if he isn't healthy and ready to go like he said.
[/quote]

I didn't say don't start him. I said don't put him first on the depth chart. I don't think matching up a rookie WR in his first pro game against Hines Ward, a probable HoF WR and the dirtiest player in the league, is going to be super beneficial to him. I expect Smith to take the #1 WR's this season, but not on the first game of the season, and especially not against the Steelers. That's ludicrous.

You can' just put him on the PUP for no reason, and doing so is useless. He's getting paid a lot of money to play for us, and if we are going to PUP him I'd rather we just cut him, we could certainly use the money with all the players we need to sign.

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1309120347' post='701114']
Exactly what Elite WRs was it he couldn't keep up with? And Wilson being a stud just isn't true.

Now i'm not saying that Foxworth played lights out or was lockdown, but he played as well as any CB in the NFL, not named Revis or Nnamdi during the last 6-8 games of the season. He really started to come into his own defensively and earn that contract.

Wilson was solid for us all season, but far from a stud. Josh had just as much struggles as anyone else in the secondary last season. Wilson added a much need physical presence to our secondary last season.

With the way the NFL is a pass first league now, retaining Wilson would definitely be a plus. Wilson would be a great insurance policy should Foxworth have any setbacks with the injury.

If everyone comes in healthy and ready to go, Foxworth will be at the top of the depth chart and everyone else will just fall in, depending on matchups and the team we're playing.

By mid season, Foxworth and Smith will probably be the top 2 guys. Webb and Wilson will play depending on their matchups, and Nakamura probably won't be used in coverage as much as he was last year.
[/quote]

I would take Wilson last season over Foxworths play at the end of the season any day of the week. Wilson was STELLAR last season. I'd again, ideally, like to keep all of them, but there's no way we can pay this many CB's if we even have a ghost of a chance at getting Nnamdi. He's going to be taking a big pay cut, several million a year, to play with us (if he decides to). Someone has to go, and I'd rather it be Foxworth then Wilson (whose simply better then he is) or Carr (who plays his best in the nickel).

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1309134592' post='701183']
People seemingly overrate him because he played [i]that[/i] well. He had his struggles against the Falcons, Panthers and Steelers in Week 13 but he played very good football for the most part.

Teams may not throw a lot of money at Wilson once free agency begins but he could be offered a similar contract to the one Foxworth got in '09.
[/quote]

So, he struggled in a third of his starts, but he deserves a fat contract?? I mean I agree he showed a good bit of potential, but people around here talk about the kid as if he were a proven vet or something.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1309158122' post='701259']
So, he struggled in a third of his starts, but he deserves a fat contract?? I mean I agree he showed a good bit of potential, but people around here talk about the kid as if he were a proven vet or something.
[/quote]

Foxworfth did the same thing for [i]half[/i] his starts, and yet a lot of people get up in arms saying we forgot about his play, and next to Jimmy Smith he is the best CB we got.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1309189972' post='701314']
Foxworfth did the same thing for [i]half[/i] his starts, and yet a lot of people get up in arms saying we forgot about his play, and next to Jimmy Smith he is the best CB we got.
[/quote]

No, wasn't even close to half his starts. Foxworth had three or four rough games the entire 2009 season. At any rate, has nothing to do with Wilson not having earned a big contract yet.

[Blex64]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1309158122' post='701259']
So, he struggled in a third of his starts, but he deserves a fat contract?? I mean I agree he showed a good bit of potential, but people around here talk about the kid as if he were a proven vet or something.
[/quote]

He struggled against Hines Ward, Steve Smith, and Roddy White, and there's plenty of discussion about whether or not he was legitimately beaten by Roddy White.

I don't think he deserves a huge contract, and I don't think he's going to get one. I DO think he deserves to be signed.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1309158122' post='701259']
So, he struggled in a third of his starts, but he deserves a fat contract?? I mean I agree he showed a good bit of potential, but people around here talk about the kid as if he were a proven vet or something.
[/quote]

He's going into his fifth year as a pro and has scored four defensive TDs. I'd say he's a proven vet.

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1309201459' post='701378']
He struggled against [b]Hines Ward, Steve Smith[/b], and Roddy White, and there's plenty of discussion about whether or not he was legitimately beaten by Roddy White.

I don't think he deserves a huge contract, and I don't think he's going to get one. I DO think he deserves to be signed.
[/quote]

I don't remember him covering Ward or Smith much or struggling against them. Wallace beat him a few times and some guy called David Gettis was the Panthers WR that beat him for a long TD.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1309216659' post='701533']<br />He's going into his fifth year as a pro and has scored four defensive TDs. I'd say he's a proven vet.<br /><br /><br /><br />I don't remember him covering Ward or Smith much or struggling against them. Wallace beat him a few times and some guy called David Gettis was the Panthers WR that beat him for a long TD.<br />[/quote]

'proven' and 'vet' arent the same thing. He's been in the league four years, but what has he proven? Who knows his name outside of Baltimore?

I dont want to see him get a Foxworth contract and then find out he isn't as good as his half season made us hope he might become.

That's not to say Foxworth earned a big contract at the time of his signing, but we're playing with fire here.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1309217599' post='701536']
'proven' and 'vet' arent the same thing. He's been in the league four years, but what has he proven? Who knows his name outside of Baltimore?

I dont want to see him get a Foxworth contract and then find out he isn't as good as his half season made us hope he might become.

That's not to say Foxworth earned a big contract at the time of his signing, but we're playing with fire here.
[/quote]

I'm sure some folks in Seattle and Houston know his name.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be comfortable with the Ravens letting him go and re-signing Carr for less because there's enough talent at CB already on the roster. I was just sticking up for Wilson.

[wayne]

We overrate Wilson too much. You would think that we could just put him on all the #1 WRs we face and he would have similar statistics to Revis or Aso with how people talk about him. No big contracts will come his way unless you got some Al Davis, Synder type of stuff going down. Ravens resign him to a decent contract and let's see what he can do for us in a full season but with Foxworth coming back, I'm sure neither of those guys want to be a 3rd stringer so IDK how that will work out.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1309295603' post='701834']
We overrate Wilson too much. You would think that we could just put him on all the #1 WRs we face and he would have similar statistics to Revis or Aso with how people talk about him. [b]No big contracts will come his way unless you got some Al Davis, Synder type of stuff going down.[/b] Ravens resign him to a decent contract and let's see what he can do for us in a full season but with Foxworth coming back, I'm sure neither of those guys want to be a 3rd stringer so IDK how that will work out.
[/quote]

CBs get overpaid every off-season. It's not out of the realm of possibility a team could offer him more than the Ravens are willing to pay him..

[PurpleReign92]

For some reason I think Wilson is a little undersized to play man to man.
I like him taking Carr and Webb's spot in the slot and we can keep Webb or Carr almost full time on the special teams.