ESPN's KC Joyner: Why Flacco Is As Good As Rivers

[ratedr]

Why Flacco is as good as Rivers
The Ravens QB orchestrated an elite deep passing attack with possession receivers

By KC Joyner
ESPN Insider

[url="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=6667673&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3djoyner_kc%26id%3d6667673"]ESPN[/url]

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As good as Rivers? I wouldn't go that far, nor would I call him elite. But this is a nice break from all the negative press.

[Yurtle]

Bill Williamson responds:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/28357/philip-rivers-or-joe-flacco

[Ravensfan23]

Translation. Get Flacco some WRs who are actually capable of beating any defense deep and watch the guy make fools of all who doubt him.

Insert Smith, Hardy, Reed, Dickson and Doss.

[darklight1216]

I wish I had insider access, this could be interesting.

[Token]

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1308267117' post='697812']
I wish I had insider access, this could be interesting.
[/quote]

The link that Yurtle posted basically has the whole article.

[Ravensfan23]

It's interested that this was posted, because just today I was telling someone, how one of the main things that separate Flacco from some of the other young QBs is that his offensive personnel doesn't really fit him yet.

Matt Ryan, has a offense that fits him well. He's not a guy that's gonna push the ball down field much, so their isn't a real need for a "deep threat" so to speak.

Scanhez is a guy that will rely heavily on his running game. He won't really push the ball down field either, most of his deep play success will come from run after catch.

So both of those guys have offenses that fit them right now. Flacco on the other hand is surround by a lot of possession type WRs that can't really take advantage of us huge arm and strong deep ball potential. As great of a WR as Boldin is, he won't bring the best out of Flacco unless he has someone on the other side of him to take the top off a defense.

Well these year, you add the young guys we have and you have a combination of things that suite Flacco really well.

Smith, Hardy and Dickson can all be deep threat big play type guys. Doss, Reed and Pitta can all be those run after catch types, that will create big plays by taking advantage of a spread out defense.

Then you can't forget the big play potential that Ray Rice brings to the table.

I've been saying all off-season how i expect big things from Flacco and the offense this year and years to come.

I'm looking for Flacco to produce these type numbers: 4300+yds 66% 7.9ypa 33TD 7Int 100 passer rating. I know those number seem huge, especially coming from a Ravens QB, but I honestly think that Flacco hasn't even scratch the surface of his potential yet.

[darklight1216]

I agree that Flacco's receivers don't really suit him, but I'm not completely convinced that the aforementioned players are going to break things open, so to speak. The Ravens had a speedy guy who could stretch the field last season and he rushed more often than he received.

[Free Agent]

Torrey Smith will really be that deep threat that Flacco has needed. If Cam uses Torrey Smith, Torrey and Joe will produce.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1308274127' post='697847']
I agree that Flacco's receivers don't really suit him, but I'm not completely convinced that the aforementioned players are going to break things open, so to speak. The Ravens had a speedy guy who could stretch the field last season and he rushed more often than he received.
[/quote]

Yea but that guy had a history of injury problems and got hurt last season as well. So there isn't any way for sure to say why Stallworth wasn't used to the way that many feel he should have been.

It seems like from the very day the season was over, Ozzie was talking about improving the speed at WR through the draft, I've never even heard him mention Stallworth as a option for the 2011 season. So there might be more to the whole Stallworth not playing thing, then just Cam being unable to use his weapons.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Free Agent' timestamp='1308274446' post='697850']
Torrey Smith will really be that deep threat that Flacco has needed. If Cam uses Torrey Smith, Torrey and Joe will produce.
[/quote]

[color="#4B0082"][url="http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/2011/06/14/flacco-works-out-with-t-smith/"]Link[/url][/color]

If things like this continue to happen and Joe really takes control of the offense this season then the Ravens might not have a choice but to play Torrey Smith alot. That is if he proves himself.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1308274127' post='697847']
I agree that Flacco's receivers don't really suit him, but I'm not completely convinced that the aforementioned players are going to break things open, so to speak. The Ravens had a speedy guy who could stretch the field last season and he rushed more often than he received.
[/quote]

Also a reason why I feel that at least a combination of 2 of the young guys we have now will be used, is because, over the last 2 season, our #3 WR(Kelley, TJ) had at least 30 catches. So that production will have to go somewhere.

I think the combination of Smith and Hardy will be used a lot as that 3rd option this year. Smith for his speed and Hardy for his size.

If Reed and Doss also produce, they'll take snaps away from Mason, but ultimately I see, those explosive and deep plays coming from Smith and Hardy this year.

[GTRavens]

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1308274127' post='697847']
I agree that Flacco's receivers don't really suit him, but I'm not completely convinced that the aforementioned players are going to break things open, so to speak. The Ravens had a speedy guy who could stretch the field last season and he rushed more often than he received.
[/quote]

Stallworth is horrible and pretty much useless at this point. Usain Bolt is a speedy guy who could stretch the field, but that doesn't make him an adequate deep threat.

[wayne]

I don't think people have to worry about Cam not using Smith, Ozzie has his influence all over Cam with how he drafted, Cam would be asking to get fired mid-season if he were not to use Smith, especially with Ozzie saying they are looking at more speed to stretch defenses.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='GTRavens' timestamp='1308281083' post='697896']
Stallworth is horrible and pretty much useless at this point. Usain Bolt is a speedy guy who could stretch the field, but that doesn't make him an adequate deep threat.
[/quote]
Stallworth was "useless" due to Cam....he is certainly serviceable.

[Bmoresun]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1308266791' post='697810']
Translation. Get Flacco some WRs who are actually capable of beating any defense deep and watch the guy make fools of all who doubt him.

Insert Smith, Hardy, Reed, Dickson and Doss.
[/quote]

What a joke, I don't care if Flacco had Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson he isn't going to be Philip Rivers. You people are the foolish ones, stop trying to make the kid out to be more than he really is. Flacco is Flacco not Rivers, and he will never be Rivers.

Philip Rivers posted 4,710 yards and 30 TDS without Vincent Jackson, with Antonio Gates missing six games, and with Malcom Floyd missing five games. And when those big names went down it didn't matter at all, because Philip Rivers is that good. Last season we saw names like Legedu Naanee, Seyi Ajirotutu, Patrick Crayton, and Buster Davis have huge games when the starters weren't available.

So, for Flacco that would be like taking away Boldin all season; while having Heap and Mason miss a bunch of games each. Now if that happened to Flacco there is no way EVER that you would see Justin Harper, Stallworth, and Housh post stats like the chargers backups did. What would happen is Cam would run the ball 45 plays and throw maybe ten snaps; en route to a loss. So STOP talking about how bad our receivers are, if you didn't notice by now it doesn't matter who you put around great QB's they still find way to get receivers the ball.

Some players are good, others are great; that's life everyone isn't made equal, and to try and compare them is sad. I know how badly we all want that vaunted franchise QB (MAnning, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers) here in Baltimore, considering we haven't had one since Johnny U, but all your doing by comparing Flacco to Rivers is fooling yourselves.

I will reiterate that i still think we can win the Superbowl with Flacco, he doesn't have to be Manning, Rivers, or Brees.

Now you can all start crying and whining, telling yourselves how wrong I am, giving this post negatives or whatever, only time will tell.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

I am a Flacco fan, I think he can and likely will post the kind of stats that Ravenfan23 mentioned (4300+yds 66% 7.9ypa 33TD 7Int 100 passer rating) in the near future. I don't think he's as good as Rivers though. At this point in time there is a massive gap in between them. Rivers had an absolutely phenomenal year this year, on track for a long time to breach 5000 yards despite missing his three best receivers for most of the year. Under no circumstances do I think that Flacco could have done that, because like Bmoresun said, Cam would just run the ball three times to every one passing play.

Like people have said though, Flacco could reach Rivers' level and be considered truly a top-5 QB, but certainly not now.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Bmoresun' timestamp='1308293200' post='697927']
What a joke, I don't care if Flacco had Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson he isn't going to be Philip Rivers. You people are the foolish ones, stop trying to make the kid out to be more than he really is. Flacco is Flacco not Rivers, and he will never be Rivers.

Philip Rivers posted 4,710 yards and 30 TDS without Vincent Jackson, with Antonio Gates missing six games, and with Malcom Floyd missing five games. And when those big names went down it didn't matter at all, because Philip Rivers is that good. Last season we saw names like Legedu Naanee, Seyi Ajirotutu, Patrick Crayton, and Buster Davis have huge games when the starters weren't available.

So, for Flacco that would be like taking away Boldin all season; while having Heap and Mason miss a bunch of games each. Now if that happened to Flacco there is no way EVER that you would see Justin Harper, Stallworth, and Housh post stats like the chargers backups did. What would happen is Cam would run the ball 45 plays and throw maybe ten snaps; en route to a loss. So STOP talking about how bad our receivers are, if you didn't notice by now it doesn't matter who you put around great QB's they still find way to get receivers the ball.

Some players are good, others are great; that's life everyone isn't made equal, and to try and compare them is sad. I know how badly we all want that vaunted franchise QB (MAnning, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers) here in Baltimore, considering we haven't had one since Johnny U, but all your doing by comparing Flacco to Rivers is fooling yourselves.

I will reiterate that i still think we can win the Superbowl with Flacco, he doesn't have to be Manning, Rivers, or Brees.

Now you can all start crying and whining, telling yourselves how wrong I am, giving this post negatives or whatever, only time will tell.
[/quote]

take a deep breath. I never once said Flacco was as good or better then Rivers. The gist of the article was how Flacco was still able to have success in the deep passing game, despite not really have so called deep threats, much like Rivers did in SD.

All i said was get Flacco the pieces that fit his talent in this offense.

The actual article is Tilted: "Why Flacco is as Good as Rivers" by KC Joyner. Which means it's not Ravens fans comparing Flacco to Rivers, it's a ESPN football insder who's comparing the 2 QB.

Nobody said Flacco would throw for close to 5,000 yards without his best WR. All I said was that Flacco having the pieces in this offense the fits him should allow him to reach his full potential.

And you can be this, Flacco isn't that good and I can't wait to say I told you so guy all you want. But if you can't identify with the fact that Flacco has improved every year, with nothing more then possession WRs, and you can't acknowledge the fact that providing Flacco with weapons that can actually makes plays as a result of his deep passing abilities, will only improve Flacco as a QB, then you are the foolish one.

Flacco isn't a elite QB right now, but neither was Manning in his 3rd year. The same Peyton Manning who didn't win a playoff game until his 6th NFL season.

Rivers wasn't a elite QB in his 3rd year. He made the pro bowl, with practically the same identical stats that Flacco had in his 3rd season.

Rodgers wasn't elite in his 3rd season, hell he didn't even start until his 4th NFL season.

So even if people were comparing Flacco to the likes of those QBs, they'd have good reason to just from a first 3 year bases.

I agree that we don't need Flacco to be Manning, Brady, or an elite QB right now to win. However that doesn't mean that Joe doesn't have the potential to reach that level sooner then later. And with the Ravens adding weapons the last couple years, that actually fit what Flacco doesn't well, it wouldn't surprise me to see him take those extra steps this season.

But like you said, only time will tell.

[margeta2005]

rivers has been in the nfl for 7 years, flacco for 3.. chill people, he will grow even more

[scrock]

Joe Flacco deserves some respect, all he's done is break records and out play Matt Ryan and ppl and players are trashing him, not only Lamarr Woodley but now Dhani Jones has talked bad about Flacco...WHAT A JOKE

[izvoodoo]

well apparently he's not as good as matt ryan...

But he's better than Phil Rivers?

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Bmoresun' timestamp='1308293200' post='697927']
What a joke, I don't care if Flacco had Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson he isn't going to be Philip Rivers. You people are the foolish ones, stop trying to make the kid out to be more than he really is. Flacco is Flacco not Rivers, and he will never be Rivers.

Philip Rivers posted 4,710 yards and 30 TDS without Vincent Jackson, with Antonio Gates missing six games, and with Malcom Floyd missing five games. And when those big names went down it didn't matter at all, because Philip Rivers is that good. Last season we saw names like Legedu Naanee, Seyi Ajirotutu, Patrick Crayton, and Buster Davis have huge games when the starters weren't available.

So, for Flacco that would be like taking away Boldin all season; while having Heap and Mason miss a bunch of games each. Now if that happened to Flacco there is no way EVER that you would see Justin Harper, Stallworth, and Housh post stats like the chargers backups did. What would happen is Cam would run the ball 45 plays and throw maybe ten snaps; en route to a loss. So STOP talking about how bad our receivers are, if you didn't notice by now it doesn't matter who you put around great QB's they still find way to get receivers the ball.

Some players are good, others are great; that's life everyone isn't made equal, and to try and compare them is sad. I know how badly we all want that vaunted franchise QB (MAnning, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers) here in Baltimore, considering we haven't had one since Johnny U, but all your doing by comparing Flacco to Rivers is fooling yourselves.

I will reiterate that i still think we can win the Superbowl with Flacco, he doesn't have to be Manning, Rivers, or Brees.

Now you can all start crying and whining, telling yourselves how wrong I am, giving this post negatives or whatever, only time will tell.
[/quote]
Why do you bother posting or even showing up here? Seriously, what's the point?

[Bmoresun]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1308299035' post='697936'].

Rivers wasn't a elite QB in his 3rd year. He made the pro bowl, with practically the same identical stats that Flacco had in his 3rd season.

[/quote]

They are not basically the same, Rivers had 347 more passing yards, a higher completion percentage, 9 more TDs, and a 105.5 passer rating compared to Joe's 93.6.
And like you said Rivers made the Pro Bowl. Not the same at all, but why do we even need these types of comparisons? The only thing it does is give people a false hope, we read these garbage articles, and expect Joe to come out and be Rivers, and Manning, and when he doesn't we make up excuses; its the receivers, the Oline, the coordinator, but never Flacco himself. Soon people are going to have to wake up and realize we have a good player not a great one.

[Bmoresun]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1308317224' post='697957']
Why do you bother posting or even showing up here? Seriously, what's the point?
[/quote]


Why do you bother asking that question? Does it upset you that much when a Ravens fan has a differing opinion than your own? Do you get so bothered that every single Ravens fan doesn't worship the ground Flacco walks on? should I just think the same stuff everyone else here does?

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Bmoresun' timestamp='1308318545' post='697968']
They are not basically the same, Rivers had 347 more passing yards, a higher completion percentage, 9 more TDs, and a 105.5 passer rating compared to Joe's 93.6.
And like you said Rivers made the Pro Bowl. Not the same at all, but why do we even need these types of comparisons? The only thing it does is give people a false hope, we read these garbage articles, and expect Joe to come out and be Rivers, and Manning, and when he doesn't you make up excuses; its the receivers, the Oline, the coordinator, but never Flacco himself. Soon people are going to have to realize we have a good player not a great one.
[/quote]
And we, the fans, can't hope that soon enough he will be a great one? History has shown itself that he is progressing nicely. Why you type of posters/fans need to be constantly putting him down and saying "what a joke" is beyond me. In all honesty, are you really a Ravens fan?

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Bmoresun' timestamp='1308318689' post='697969']
Why do you bother asking that question? Does it upset you that much when a Ravens fan has a differing opinion than your own? Do you get so bothered that every single Ravens fan doesn't worship the ground Flacco walks on? should I just think the same stuff everyone else here does?
[/quote]
See that's thing though, I don't worship the ground he walks on. I see his flaws and the mistakes he's made. Only thing is I've been watching football long enough to know that the young man has accomplished quite a bit for being 3 years into what will hopefully be a long and successful NFL career. Its not what you say, its the repetitiveness in how you say it and the continued negative posts that are ridiculous!

But like I said, I wont bother anymore....it must just be the type of personality you have to always be very negative. Carry on

[BmoreRaised]

I don't click on links.He is saying Flacco is better than Rivers as of right now?Well,we already know that answer,could Flacco be better someday?I think so.I know some people like to call Rivers a "crybaby" but the guy is a great QB.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='BmoreRaised' timestamp='1308323584' post='697988']
I don't click on links.He is saying Flacco is better than Rivers as of right now?Well,we already know that answer,could Flacco be better someday?I think so.I know some people like to call Rivers a "crybaby" but the guy is a great QB.
[/quote]
Just for the record, nowhere does it say "better"...

[Alexir]

I think Flacco can become a Phillip Rivers. I have seen nothing to think Joe is Elite. He is pretty much above average but thats not his fault, its Cams fault. We rarely get to see him take a lot of shots down field on a "Rivers basis". Joe needs to work on getting the ball out faster and Cam needs to work on giving Joe options. I think Joe will struggle to make a pro bowl in the next couple of years because Tom and Peyton automatically occupy 2 spots lol.

Also, Can we trade McGahee to Chargers for Gates? lol, I wish they would bite on that....

[Bmoresun]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1308318984' post='697971']
See that's thing though, I don't worship the ground he walks on. I see his flaws and the mistakes he's made. Only thing is I've been watching football long enough to know that the young man has accomplished quite a bit for being 3 years into what will hopefully be a long and successful NFL career. Its not what you say, its the repetitiveness in how you say it and the continued negative posts that are ridiculous!

But like I said, I wont bother anymore....it must just be the type of personality you have to always be very negative. Carry on
[/quote]

Ridiculous? None of what I have said is Ridiculous, albeit negative, it is certainly not ridiculous. Ridiculous is the article that compares Flacco to a QB that has thrown over 4000 yards and had above a 100.00 passer rating the last three seasons, and oh yeah made three Pro Bowls, that is Ridiculous. Maybe I do see the glass half empty and don't think that Joe Flacco is ever going to be as good as Rivers, but what i say is defiantly not Ridiculous.

And why do you care so much anyway? You act personally insulted that another Ravens fan (me) may be critical of the Ravens. To answer your question I'm a huge Ravens fan, but that doesn't mean I cant be critical of Ravens players or coaches. Not every Ravens fan has to agree with one another, just because my opinion is different than yours doesn't mean I'm not a bigger fan than you.

[flynismo]

,[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1308325450' post='698009']<br />I think Flacco can become a Phillip Rivers. I have seen nothing to think  Joe is Elite. He is pretty much above average but thats not his fault, its Cams fault. We rarely get to see him take a lot of shots down field on a &quot;Rivers basis&quot;. Joe needs to work on getting the ball out faster and Cam needs to work on giving Joe options. I think Joe will struggle to make a pro bowl in the next couple of years because Tom and Peyton automatically occupy 2 spots lol. <br /><br />Also, Can we trade McGahee to Chargers for Gates? lol, I wish they would bite on that....<br />[/quote]


agreed on Flacco, and I have been pondering for months on how to trade McGahee to SD for one of their OL.
I'm certain there's a deal to be made there somehow where we're all happy.,,,,