O-Line Analysis

[Ed_Reed20]

This week, Pro Football Focus has been releasing articles breaking down pass protection. How the Ravens' o-line fared last season was a frequent talking point and it's arguably intensified since the season ended. I wanted to post the articles, highlight where the Ravens ranked and generate some discussion.

[size="2"][b][u][url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/06/surrendering-pressure/"]Surrendering Pressure[/url][/u][/b][/size]

Not surprisingly, the Ravens were below-average(23rd) in surrendering pressure.

Breaking pressure down further, the second table actually has Baltimore's o-line 6th in pressure allowed.

The third table, which breaks down pressure surrendered by skill players(backs, TEs, WRs), has the Ravens ranked 31st. Rice and McClain combined for more than half of them, allowing 17 and 11 pressures respectively.

The final table breaks down "QB-invited" pressure. Even less surprisingly, Flacco ranked 31st with 16 allowed pressures. I'd love to know what criteria PFF used to charge pressures to QB but honestly, 16 seems like a fair number for Joe.

[url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/07/pressure-into-sacks/"][size="2"][u][b]Pressure Into Sacks[/b][/u][/size][/url]

This article breaks down the percentage of sacks teams surrendered when pressured. Only the Panthers were worse than the Ravens in this category and writer Khaled Elsayed had this to say about Flacco and company specifically:

[i]A surprising team also at the bottom are the Baltimore Ravens. It’s not really clear what happened between the end of the 2009 season, and beginning of 2010, but Joe Flacco handled pressure very differently in the two yeas. Whether it was a lack of awareness, or an overconfidence in his ability to get past it, he took more sacks than he needed to. Michael Oher taking over the LT role from Jared Gaither shortened the time Flacco had to think and certainly contributed.[/i]

[url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/08/extra-blockers/"][size="2"][b][b][u]Extra Blockers[/u][/b][/b][/size][/url]

This article, published today, looks at the average number of blockers each team held in last season.

The Ravens ranking 26th supports the belief that Cam didn't spread the field enough.

Make of these articles what you will. I've become a fan of PFF's analysis in recent weeks and while some will dismiss their work as just [i]statistics[/i], I think they paint an accurate picture of the Ravens' issues when passing last season.

PFF releases their pass protection rankings tomorrow and Friday. I'll update this thread as they're posted.

[u][b]Update[/b][/u]

Well, PFF produced the first half of their rankings today.

[url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/09/team-pass-protection-rankings-part-1/"][size="2"][u][b]Team Pass Protection Rankings, Part 1[/b][/u][/size][/url]

The Ravens came in 24th and this what Elsayed had to say about the team's performance:

[quote]
24. Baltimore Ravens (1.80)

Quite the fall for a Ravens team that finished in our top ten last year. Part of that comes down to the fall-off that occurred when Michael Oher took over the blind side tackle spot from Jared Gaither. Unfortunately (for Baltimore) Oher just wasn’t up to the task in 2010. You can also apportion some of the blame to the backs and tight ends for struggling so much, while Joe Flacco went from Joe Cool under pressure, to Joe Fool as he struggled to get rid of the ball. A shame because players like Marshal Yanda, Matt Birk and Ben Grubbs all had positive grades for the year.

Pressure Per Play Rank: 23rd

Sack % of Pressure Rank: 31st

Average Number of Blockers Per Play Rank: 27th
[/quote]

Here's more analysis taken from PFF's "Top 101 Players of 2010" list:

[quote]
45. [b]Marshal Yanda[/b], RT, Baltimore Ravens
It doesn’t matter where you put Yanda on the right side, he always seems to perform. The guard become tackle had no problems making the switch, [b]ending the year with the third highest run blocking grade we gave to a tackle.[/b] Not that he was no great shakes in pass protection, as he overcame a tough middle stretch of the season (Kroy Biermann, Charles Johnson and Cameron Wake were a bit too much for him) to finish strongly.
Best Performance: Week 16 at Cleveland (+4.6)
Key Stat: [b]Only allowed his quarterback to get hit five times all year.[/b]

34. [b]Matt Birk[/b], C, Baltimore Ravens
Was better in the regular season, but the magnificence of Mangold in the wild card round sees him finish ahead. Though not many people seemed to realize it, Birk has been a revelation since moving to Baltimore. Rarely gives up any pressure, and was consistent with his run blocking outside of a poor (by his standards) playoffs. [b]For those who think Maurkice Pouncey had a better year, you’re lying to yourself.[/b]
Best Performance: Week 5 versus Denver (+3.6)
Key Stat: [b]Only gave up seven quarterback disruptions the entire year (including playoffs).[/b]
[/quote]

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

I'm not at all surprised to see the poor ranking in pressures given up. IIRC, Oher was one of the worst LTs in the league in that respect.

I don't specifically remember Rice or McClain struggling with defenders, quite the contrary, I remember Rice holding Polamalu off as Flacco completed his big pass to Boldin in the home game. On the strip sack play, he chose to block Timmons instead of Polamalu, that's the only glaring mistake in blocking that I saw.

I definitely remember the use of extra blockers. The real head scratcher was having Boldin protecting on a third down. Go figure.

[TDubbs]

There is no question that if we cannot fix the o lines problems then we do not have much to look forward to on the offense side, besides the ray rice check downs.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1307567488' post='694599']
I'm not at all surprised to see the poor ranking in pressures given up. IIRC, Oher was one of the worst LTs in the league in that respect.

[b]I don't specifically remember Rice or McClain struggling with defenders, quite the contrary, I remember Rice holding Polamalu off as Flacco completed his big pass to Boldin in the home game. On the strip sack play, he chose to block Timmons instead of Polamalu, that's the only glaring mistake in blocking that I saw.

I definitely remember the use of extra blockers. The real head scratcher was having Boldin protecting on a third down. Go figure.[/b]
[/quote]

Here's a sack I'd put on Rice. [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010120513/2010/REG13/steelers@ravens#tab:watch/watch-channels:cat-post-watch-fantasy"][u]Week 13 vs. Steelers(8th video down)[/u][/url]

I'm too lazy to review video of every sack surrendered last season but I'll trust PFF's analysis that there were a lot more. I definitely remember the backs having their struggles in pass protection against Houston and the Saints. I'm sure of that because both teams got pressure with safeties at one point and it was glaring because Polamalu's crippling sack had happened just the previous week.

I'll never forget when Q was put in pass pro.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1307570918' post='694615']
Here's a sack I'd put on Rice. [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010120513/2010/REG13/steelers@ravens#tab:watch/watch-channels:cat-post-watch-fantasy"][u]Week 13 vs. Steelers(8th video down)[/u][/url]

I'm too lazy to review video of every sack surrendered last season but I'll trust PFF's analysis that there were a lot more. I definitely remember the backs having their struggles in pass protection against Houston and the Saints. I'm sure of that because both teams got pressure with safeties at one point and it was glaring because Polamalu's crippling sack had happened just the previous week.

I'll never forget when Q was put in pass pro.
[/quote]

Yeah that sack was Rice's fault. I also remember Houston being especially aggressive with Pollard the week after. It was definitely effective, because the offense pretty much couldn't stay on the field for more than one set of downs in the second half.

[Ed_Reed20]

I'd love to know the numbers for each individual o-lineman in terms of pressures surrendered on passing snaps. Because if these numbers are to be believed, the o-line as a unit didn't perform nearly as badly as we like to think in pass protection.

[Corvus]

I was actually looking at these earlier today Ed_Reed20. What is interesting is that the one area our team was good at in these aspects according to them was in pressure allowed by the o-line. Our guys were sixth best in the league in least pressures per play on the o-line. In other words despite a lot of their perceived struggles, (including by me and you in your prior statement) Oher, Grubbs, Birk, Chester, and Yanda only allowed pressure on 4.49% of their snaps in pass protection. Meanwhile, the same statistic by our team's skill positions in protecting was really bad, and Flacco was horrendous in "QB-invited pressure," what a term...so by these measurables Flacco holding onto the ball and Cam relying on skill position blockers were a major downfall to our offense. That would be how I read it. That said, I am glad Chester won't be starting this year, we really need to find our center of the future as well..

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Corvus' timestamp='1307575338' post='694636']
I was actually looking at these earlier today Ed_Reed20. What is interesting is that the one area our team was good at in these aspects according to them was in pressure allowed by the o-line. Our guys were sixth best in the league in least pressures per play on the o-line. In other words despite a lot of their perceived struggles, (including by me and you in your prior statement) Oher, Grubbs, Birk, Chester, and Yanda only allowed pressure on 4.49% of their snaps in pass protection. Meanwhile, the same statistic by our team's skill positions in protecting was really bad, and Flacco was horrendous in "QB-invited pressure," what a term...[b]so by these measurables Flacco holding onto the ball and Cam relying on skill position blockers were a major downfall to our offense. That would be how I read it.[/b] That said, I am glad Chester won't be starting this year, we really need to find our center of the future as well..
[/quote]


Joe holding onto to the ball too long can't be denied. His own issues aside, you have to wonder how much the play-calling and WRs struggling to separate factored into that.

I disagree about Cam relying on skill position players. He probably should have spread the WRs out more but Rice and McClain struggling like they did in pass pro is inexcusable.

[Alexir]

Lol "Joe Fool".

It is a shame that our OL is getting a bad wrap when the interior guys played amazing (even Birk for most of the season). Hopefully, Gaither returns and plays left or Jah is ready to man the right side effectively, then we can just put a tightend on our weak side of the line to help out.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1307573883' post='694630']<br />I'd love to know the numbers for each individual o-lineman in terms of pressures surrendered on passing snaps. Because if these numbers are to be believed, the o-line as a unit didn't perform nearly as badly as we like to think in pass protection.<br />[/quote]

I'd trust my eyes, not numbers that we are not even sure how came into existence.

[atljbo]

This is also a good stat... I dont agree with everything PFF says but i do like how they actually does film study and point out things normal fans dont see.

[url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/06/surrendering-pressure/"]link[/url]
[img]http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8514/qbpressures.jpg[/img]



I want to ask you guys this... It seem like you guys O-Line ran more smoothly in 09... On the outside looking in it seem like Jared Gaither was becoming one of the better LT's in the league (i know injurys happen and Jared getting pissy about moving to RT) .... 2 things tho

1. If your O-Line ran better int 09 ... Why move Gaither to RT and the Blindside to LT?

2. Is Michael Oher a better fit at RT ? Is he really a LT ?

[gabefergy]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1307644652' post='694838']
I'd trust my eyes, not numbers that we are not even sure how came into existence.
[/quote]
Yeah I agree, I didn't take the time to read the article...maybe they explained how they came up with the numbers?

However, I recall seeing pass-rushers getting pressure seemingly immediately after the snap on way too many occassions. Maybe a lot of that blame can go to missed assignments by the backs but I remember our line getting beat a lot too.

I am also somewhat surprised about how well Birk was ranked overall. I just didn't see him generating any push in the run game, especially as the season wore on.

[FerrariFan87]

Gaither was missed terribly last season. Hopefully we can retain his services (and he remains healthy). Swinging Oher back to RT and Yanda back to RG solidifies our line.

[Suggs Package]

I always said our OL was actually pretty good at pass blocking last year overall, glad there is some stats to back me up. Another thing to note is that Joe Flacco is pretty much the most blitzed starting QB in the NFL at a 50% clip. So a lot of times Cam has to keep extra players in to block, no matter how bad they are at blocking, to keep defenders from killing Joe because the quick passing game is still a weakness for him.

I don't think much of the pressures were caused by long developing routes or a lack of separation. Q, Mase, TJ, were getting open pretty much all year besides against the Jets, Steelers, Cincinnati, and Tampa Bay and all those teams have a least 2 Pro Bowl caliber DBs and/or a top 3 pass rush. It was mostly Joe taking too long to process info and missing his quick reads/routes. I lost my voice trying to tell Flacco that Boldin was open thru my TV haha.

But you gotta give Flacco credit for not getting trigger happy after being blitzed and hit so damn much and I'm sure he'll get better. He's the anti Kyle "Happy Feet" Boller.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1307644652' post='694838']
I'd trust my eyes, not numbers that we are not even sure how came into existence.
[/quote]

The guys at PFF watch film.

While they're much easier to compile, people cite stats, especially when defending Flacco routinely. I'm not going to dismiss these numbers simply because there's a level of subjectivity.

I do trust my eyes though and last season, I remember Oher and Chester getting beat most often in pass protection. It's no coincidence neither was mentioned as having excelled in pass protection last season.

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1307647840' post='694875']
Yeah I agree, I didn't take the time to read the article...maybe they explained how they came up with the numbers?

However, I recall seeing pass-rushers getting pressure seemingly immediately after the snap on way too many occassions. Maybe a lot of that blame can go to missed assignments by the backs but I remember our line getting beat a lot too.

[b]I am also somewhat surprised about how well Birk was ranked overall. I just didn't see him generating any push in the run game, especially as the season wore on.[/b]
[/quote]

I too was surprised to see Birk rated that highly. I don't remember him having many issues in pass pro but I don't remember him generating a lot of push either.

PFF was definitely on the mark with crediting him for his performance against Denver though. That was one of the few games Rice had legitimate holes to run through up the gut.

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1307647603' post='694870']
This is also a good stat... I dont agree with everything PFF says but i do like how they actually does film study and point out things normal fans dont see.

I want to ask you guys this... It seem like you guys O-Line ran more smoothly in 09... On the outside looking in it seem like Jared Gaither was becoming one of the better LT's in the league (i know injurys happen and Jared getting pissy about moving to RT) .... 2 things tho
[b]
1. If your O-Line ran better int 09 ... Why move Gaither to RT and the Blindside to LT?

2. Is Michael Oher a better fit at RT ? Is he really a LT ?[/b]
[/quote]

1. The coaches supposedly wanted a more consistent presence at LT. Gaither's injury-proneness probably contributed to that decision.

2. Oher is definitely a better RT.

[flynismo]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1307647603' post='694870']<br />This is also a good stat... I dont agree with everything PFF says but i do like how they actually does film study and point out things normal fans dont see.<br /><br /><br /><img src="http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8514/qbpressures.jpg" /><br /><br /><br /><br />I want to ask you guys this... It seem like you guys O-Line ran more smoothly in 09... On the outside looking in it seem like Jared Gaither was becoming one of the better LT's in the league (i know injurys happen and Jared getting pissy about moving to RT) .... 2 things tho<br /><br />1. If your O-Line ran better int 09 ... Why move Gaither to RT and the Blindside to LT?<br /><br />2. Is Michael Oher a better fit at RT ? Is he really a LT ?<br />[/quote]



1. Only reason I can think of is that we're dumb. There was no reason for the switch, because Gaither was unreal at LT (consistently erased guys like James Harrison, Mario Williams, Freeney, and the othe elite pass rushers) and Oher was an animal at RT.


2. Oher is All Pro material at RT. A pretty good LT, but nowhere near as good as on the rright.

[flynismo]

,[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1307654801' post='694941']<br />The guys at PFF watch film. <br /><br />While they're much easier to compile, people cite stats, especially when defending Flacco routinely. I'm not going to dismiss these numbers simply because there's a level of subjectivity.<br /><br />I do trust my eyes though and last season, I remember Oher and Chester getting beat most often in pass protection. It's no coincidence neither was mentioned as having excelled in pass protection last season.   <br /><br /><br /><br />I too was surprised to see Birk rated that highly rated. I don't remember him having many issues in pass pro but I don't remember him him generating a lot of push either. PFF was definitely on the mark with crediting him for his performance against Denver. That was one of the few games Rice had legitimate holes to run through up the gut.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />1. The coaches supposedly wanted a more consistent presence at LT. Gaither's injury-proneness probably contributed to that decision.<br /><br />2. Oher is definitely a better RT.<br />[/quote]


the evaluation of Birk really made me question the credibility of the author.
When defenses brought the rush through the middle, they absolutely punished us. Now in my eyes that has more to do with Chester at RG than Birk, but Birk was terrible in run blocking. Absolutely horrible. ,,,,

[PurpleGreek]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1307652105' post='694916']
a lot of times Cam has to keep extra players in to block, no matter how bad they are at blocking, to keep defenders from killing Joe because the quick passing game is still a weakness for him.[/quote]

The Ravens don't have a quick passing game... they have Cam Cameron

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1307655383' post='694949']
the evaluation of Birk really made me question the credibility of the author.
When defenses brought the rush through the middle, they absolutely punished us. Now in my eyes that has more to do with Chester at RG than Birk, but Birk was terrible in run blocking. Absolutely horrible. ,,,,
[/quote]

Grubbs deserves a little blame too. His ankle injury probably affected him.

There some situations and entire games were Birk didn't appear effective as run blocker on television but I wouldn't call his performance last season "terrible". He had to have been doing [i]something[/i] right against the Bengals, Browns, Broncos, Bills, Falcons, Buccaneers and Saints.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1307656462' post='694961']He had to have been doing <i>something</i> right against the Bengals, Browns, Broncos, Bills, Falcons, Buccaneers and Saints.<br />[/quote]


why would you make that assumption?

[PurpleReign92]

Having Micheal Oher on the left side doesn't seem like such a bad idea at all.
People see a left tackle with a height of 6'7"-6'9" assuming the QB can see over this massive tackle to throw to the left side. Now Joe is taller then the left tackle and this gives for better field vision and thus a more complete pass.

[atljbo]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1307654921' post='694944']
1. Only reason I can think of is that we're dumb. There was no reason for the switch, because Gaither was unreal at LT (consistently erased guys like James Harrison, Mario Williams, Freeney, and the othe elite pass rushers) and Oher was an animal at RT.


2. Oher is All Pro material at RT. A pretty good LT, but nowhere near as good as on the right.
[/quote]


I see... I hate when teams do that.... They think if a guy can be an all pro RT... He should be atleast be a great LT.


I cant lie.. Coming out of college.. I thought Oher could be a great/franchise LT... I still like like Oher but it does seem like your FO should have just left the O-Line alone.


You guys drafted Jah Reid who i think can be a really good RT one day (i think it will take him a year or 2) .. So it looks like Oher is staying at LT... Maybe it just took him last year to get used to that position.


I know most falcon fans want us to go after Gaither... I dont see us doing that tho

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PurpleReign92' timestamp='1307657846' post='694966']
Having Micheal Oher on the left side doesn't seem like such a bad idea at all.
People see a left tackle with a height of 6'7"-6'9" assuming the QB can see over this massive tackle to throw to the left side. Now Joe is taller then the left tackle and this gives for better field vision and thus a more complete pass.
[/quote]

No offense but that's pretty weak reasoning. A QB doesn't have to see over much less throw over the LT on every play.

Oher's lack of height didn't prevent from struggling mightily last season.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1307657827' post='694965']
why would you make that assumption?
[/quote]

A number of reasons:

- Rice's yards per carry was at it's highest in those games
- The team ran most up the middle most of time
- I watched all of those games and saw Rice have success up the middle
- PFF's grades for those games mention Birk's quality play

[flynismo]

,[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1307654801' post='694941']<br />The guys at PFF watch film. <br /><br />While they're much easier to compile, people cite stats, especially when defending Flacco routinely. I'm not going to dismiss these numbers simply because there's a level of subjectivity.<br /><br />I do trust my eyes though and last season, I remember Oher and Chester getting beat most often in pass protection. It's no coincidence neither was mentioned as having excelled in pass protection last season.   <br /><br /><br /><br />I too was surprised to see Birk rated that highly. I don't remember him having many issues in pass pro but I don't remember him generating a lot of push either. <br /><br />PFF was definitely on the mark with crediting him for his performance against Denver though. That was one of the few games Rice had legitimate holes to run through up the gut.<br /><br /><br /><br />1. The coaches supposedly wanted a more consistent presence at LT. Gaither's injury-proneness probably contributed to that decision.<br /><br />2. Oher is definitely a better RT.<br />[/quote]


no one is saying dismiss them completely.
But I'm saying clearly there was a huge problem with our OL last year, regardless of whatever stats they may come up with.
Using stats to judge OL is almost like using stats to judge what is better between hamburgers and hot dogs...,,,,

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1307659677' post='694991']<br />A number of reasons:<br /><br />- Rice's yards per carry was at it's highest in those games<br />- The team ran most up the middle most of time<br />- I watched all of those games and saw Rice have success up the middle<br />- PFF's grades for those games mention Birk's quality play<br />[/quote]

good enough, just wanted to know what made you say that.

Although back to my original point about Birk being terrible in the run game (I do think he was pretty solid in pass protection for the most part), I'll just reiterate what you said a few posts ago...you said yourself he seemed to have gone weeks without making an impression. Which is pretty much the point I was making. He was the OL's equivalent of Clayton last season..

[atljbo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1307659414' post='694985']
No offense but that's pretty weak reasoning. A QB doesn't have to see over much less throw over the LT on every play.

Oher's lack of height didn't prevent from struggling mightily last season.
[/quote]
exactly... Its about passing lanes....So yea... The height thing does nothing really.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1307654801' post='694941']
The guys at PFF watch film.

While they're much easier to compile, people cite stats, especially when defending Flacco routinely. I'm not going to dismiss these numbers simply because there's a level of subjectivity.

I do trust my eyes though and last season, I remember Oher and Chester getting beat most often in pass protection. It's no coincidence neither was mentioned as having excelled in pass protection last season.



I too was surprised to see Birk rated that highly. I don't remember him having many issues in pass pro but I don't remember him generating a lot of push either.

[b]PFF was definitely on the mark with crediting him for his performance against Denver though[/b]. That was one of the few games Rice had legitimate holes to run through up the gut.



1. The coaches supposedly wanted a more consistent presence at LT. Gaither's injury-proneness probably contributed to that decision.

2. Oher is definitely a better RT.
[/quote]
The O-line did absolutely man-handle the opposition in that game, Birk included. However, I would be inclined to think that had more to do with the abysmal talent level Denver has at DT. How they completely whiffed at drafting any help along that line boggles my mind.

[RavensAllTheWay]

Man, how many times am I going to hear, "Flacco struggles to get the ball out of bounds."? Forget numbers for a minute. I clearly remember many plays last season where he was immediately flushed out of the pocket by someone in his face and he threw it away quickly. In fact, there were times I would get mad at Joe for giving up on a play too quickly.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1307659789' post='694993']
no one is saying dismiss them completely.
But I'm saying clearly there was a huge problem with our OL last year, regardless of whatever stats they may come up with.
Using stats to judge OL is almost like using stats to judge what is better between hamburgers and hot dogs...,,,,
[/quote]

I don't disagree the o-line had their issues. Anyone could see they did. However, it doesn't seem outlandish that film review shows they weren't at fault as often as we'd like to believe.

Judging what players surrender pressure isn't an exact science but to me, their analysis isn't that off.

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1307660240' post='694996']
good enough, just wanted to know what made you say that.

Although back to my original point about Birk being terrible in the run game (I do think he was pretty solid in pass protection for the most part), I'll just reiterate what you said a few posts ago...you said yourself he seemed to have gone weeks without making an impression. Which is pretty much the point I was making. He was the OL's equivalent of Clayton last season..
[/quote]

Can't argue with that.