Players We Need To Re-Sign

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1305778420' post='688307']
[b]I watched every single game. And Stallworth failed to stretch the field at all when he played. And I saw a couple times he had holding penalties or some other mental mistake. I think it was just nerves because he didn't get much playing time and isn't his fault altogether. But it still doesn't mean I trust him when he goes out there.[/b]

And just a question: If he was never on the field, how do you know that he is such an amazing talent to stretch the field. Fast doesn't always mean he is a legitimate threat. People gotta fear you in general to get space on the long routes. No team ever fears Stallworth. He never got above 1000 yards in his career. Just because he is a Ravens doesn't mean he is gonna be a star. Dressing up a pig still makes it a pig

Coaches would have played him if they believed in him. Even players like Ellerbe who was originally in the doghouse, played himself out to an extent. Stallworth isn't in the doghouse. He was just irrelevant.

Injuries are gonna happen. Teams just gotta pray for some health. But I'd rather get someone who is going to impact our team, over getting Stallworth who has a nice 40 time.
[/quote]

Other than his fumble against Washington in pre-season, another fumble against the Bengals in Week 17 and getting flagged in garbage time against the Chiefs, I don't remember Stallworth making a single noticeable mental mistake.

I do recall him having the team's longest play from scrimmage. He's not Wallace or Jackson but the guy is capable of stretching the field.

[lowrider]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1305779383' post='688313']
Other than his fumble against Washington in pre-season, another fumble against the Bengals in Week 17 and getting flagged in garbage time against the Chiefs, I don't remember Stallworth making a single noticeable mental mistake.

I do recall him having the team's longest play from scrimmage. He's not Wallace or Jackson but the guy is capable of stretching the field.
[/quote]
I think there was one more play other than those events that I'm forgetting. I'm not saying he is the worst player ever and what not. He is fast. And he is a home run hitter and eventually he will hit that home run. But its rare. I would much rather give David Reed some shots over Stallworth. Stallworth is a decent last resort at best. But as a consistent threat, there is no way he is reliable, and has never showed he could be reliable over his career.

I'd rather go for some of our potential guys over Stallworth. Especially, since he isn't good at special teams. If we are looking at Stallworth realistically, he is one of the last cuts for the Ravens. And usually Ravens save those spots for young guys who play special teams.

You may say, well David Reed, Tandon Doss, Torrey Smith, haven't showed us anything, why would we trust them. Answer is I don't really trust them. I just don't trust Stallworth at all. Even in his prime he underachieved, I'd rather take a maybe over a probably not. Getting consistent numbers is more important. Don't fall in love with the home run.

[bmore187]

Landry is not a good tackler and hasnt been the same since Jamal Lewis ran over his coconut. We need to let him go to the Cowboys and pick up someone else. Wilson needs to be re-signed immediately

[Bltravens]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1305780079' post='688319']
I think there was one more play other than those events that I'm forgetting. I'm not saying he is the worst player ever and what not. He is fast. And he is a home run hitter and eventually he will hit that home run. But its rare. I would much rather give David Reed some shots over Stallworth. Stallworth is a decent last resort at best. But as a consistent threat, there is no way he is reliable, and has never showed he could be reliable over his career.

I'd rather go for some of our potential guys over Stallworth. Especially, since he isn't good at special teams. If we are looking at Stallworth realistically, he is one of the last cuts for the Ravens. And usually Ravens save those spots for young guys who play special teams.

You may say, well David Reed, Tandon Doss, Torrey Smith, haven't showed us anything, why would we trust them. Answer is I don't really trust them. I just don't trust Stallworth at all. [b] Even in his prime he underachieved, I'd rather take a maybe over a probably not.[/b] Getting consistent numbers is more important. Don't fall in love with the home run.
[/quote]
This, alot of people seem to forget Stallworth was never more than mediocre as a WR even in his prime. Now that he's out of his prime its not going to get any better.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1305780079' post='688319']
I think there was one more play other than those events that I'm forgetting. I'm not saying he is the worst player ever and what not. He is fast. And he is a home run hitter and eventually he will hit that home run. But its rare. I would much rather give David Reed some shots over Stallworth. Stallworth is a decent last resort at best. But as a consistent threat, there is no way he is reliable, and has never showed he could be reliable over his career.

I'd rather go for some of our potential guys over Stallworth. Especially, since he isn't good at special teams. If we are looking at Stallworth realistically, he is one of the last cuts for the Ravens. And usually Ravens save those spots for young guys who play special teams.

You may say, well David Reed, Tandon Doss, Torrey Smith, haven't showed us anything, why would we trust them. Answer is I don't really trust them. I just don't trust Stallworth at all. Even in his prime he underachieved, I'd rather take a maybe over a probably not. Getting consistent numbers is more important. Don't fall in love with the home run.
[/quote]

Don't get me wrong, I don't want Stallworth re-signed. With the drafting of Torrey and Doss, I think the organization has made it clear they don't want him back either. I was simply defending him from what I felt was unjust criticism.

[lowrider]

[quote name='bmore187' timestamp='1305780389' post='688323']
Landry is not a good tackler and hasnt been the same since Jamal Lewis ran over his coconut. We need to let him go to the Cowboys and pick up someone else. Wilson needs to be re-signed immediately
[/quote]
Agreed about Landry. I think Wilson is just one talent we are going to have to let go. He is going to want playing time along with money and I think if we kept him, we would have to overpay for him and he would only be our number 3 or 4 corner. I think Carr would be cheaper to keep. But Wilson will be missed, and he is definitely a good player

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1305780430' post='688324']
This, alot of people seem to forget Stallworth was never more than mediocre as a WR even in his prime. Now that he's out of his prime its not going to get any better.
[/quote]
Thats how I feel about the situation. I think David Reed and Torrey Smith joining the team, is the team trying to build on that deep threat. One of them needs to breakout for us to go to the Super Bowl this year. I think if we rely on Stallworth, then we kind of know how everything is going to pan out.....

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='bmore187' timestamp='1305780389' post='688323']
[b]Landry is not a good tackler[/b] and hasnt been the same since Jamal Lewis ran over his coconut. We need to let him go to the Cowboys and pick up someone else. Wilson needs to be re-signed immediately
[/quote]

Actually, he is. PFF published articles on the ten best and worst tackling safeties yesterday and Dawan was among the best.

[lowrider]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1305780868' post='688329']
Actually, he is. PFF published articles on the ten best and worst tackling safeties yesterday and Dawan was among the best.
[/quote]
He's an alright player. Not every position can be super stars so depending how much Landry costs, we should at least make a play for him. I like Zibby and Nakamura but I don't think I trust them yet. But I'm too critical of Landry sometimes but he is a very solid player, and I really shouldn't be so negative about him as much. We just shouldn't overpay for him

[wayne]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1305778420' post='688307']
I watched every single game. And Stallworth failed to stretch the field at all when he played. And I saw a couple times he had holding penalties or some other mental mistake. I think it was just nerves because he didn't get much playing time and isn't his fault altogether. But it still doesn't mean I trust him when he goes out there.

And just a question: If he was never on the field, how do you know that he is such an amazing talent to stretch the field. Fast doesn't always mean he is a legitimate threat. People gotta fear you in general to get space on the long routes. No team ever fears Stallworth. He never got above 1000 yards in his career. Just because he is a Ravens doesn't mean he is gonna be a star. Dressing up a pig still makes it a pig

Coaches would have played him if they believed in him. Even players like Ellerbe who was originally in the doghouse, played himself out to an extent. Stallworth isn't in the doghouse. He was just irrelevant.

Injuries are gonna happen. Teams just gotta pray for some health. But I'd rather get someone who is going to impact our team, over getting Stallworth who has a nice 40 time.
[/quote]
Stalworth proved with the Saints and the Browns that he could be servicable going deep and teams would have to respect him even if we were using him as a decoy to open things up underneath.

[lowrider]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1305781183' post='688332']
Stalworth proved with the Saints and the Browns that he could be servicable going deep and teams would have to respect him even if we were using him as a decoy to open things up underneath.
[/quote]
To be a decoy, the player needs to be a threat. Just telling Stallworth to go deep everytime is not going to make Ray Rice more open for the dump passes. I'm not buying that logic

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1305781148' post='688331']
He's an alright player. Not every position can be super stars so depending how much Landry costs, we should at least make a play for him. I like Zibby and Nakamura but I don't think I trust them yet. But I'm too critical of Landry sometimes but he is a very solid player, and I really shouldn't be so negative about him as much. We just shouldn't overpay for him
[/quote]

Zibby was actually among the the top 10 as well.

I doubt they will. Safeties don't make a lot of money and the Ravens don't overpay for players.

[bmore187]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1305780868' post='688329']
Actually, he is. PFF published articles on the ten best and worst tackling safeties yesterday and Dawan was among the best.
[/quote]


As Raheem Morris put it " Stats are for losers "

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='bmore187' timestamp='1305781897' post='688337']
As Raheem Morris put it " Stats are for losers "
[/quote]

Awesome.

The guys at PFF compile their stats by studying film. Dismiss the stats with some nonsensical quote if you want. I'll take the word of respected analysts.

[bmore187]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1305782747' post='688338']
Awesome.

The guys at PFF compile their stats by studying film. Dismiss the stats with some nonsensical quote if you want. I'll take the word of respected analysts.
[/quote]


Did PFF also tell you that the Chargers had the number 1 Offense AND number 1 Defense last season? Man they must've been the best team in the NFL last yr. ....... See how 'stats' are for losers now???

[-Truth-]

[quote name='bmore187' timestamp='1305781897' post='688337']
As Raheem Morris put it " Stats are for losers "
[/quote]
They don't use statistics. They grade players off of every single play by their actual performance. So their grade it a lot more relevant than simply looking at the stat sheet.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='bmore187' timestamp='1305783366' post='688339']
Did PFF also tell you that the Chargers had the number 1 Offense AND number 1 Defense last season? Man they must've been the best team in the NFL last yr. ....... See how 'stats' are for losers now???
[/quote]

Not really. We're talking about individual player analysis, not rankings based on hundreds of snaps.

The article broke down Landry's solo, assisted and missed tackles and found the attempt per missed tackle ratio. He graded out as one of the best.

He missed some big tackles last season but to say he isn't a good tackler is just ignorant.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1305784363' post='688343']
Not really. We're talking about individual player analysis, not rankings based on hundreds of snaps.

The article broke down Landry's solo, assisted and missed tackles and found the attempt per missed tackle ratio. He graded out as one of the best.

[b]He missed some big tackles last season[/b] but to say he isn't a good tackler is just ignorant.
[/quote]

He missed potentially the biggest tackle of the season in week 13. It's hard to forget bad plays in big moments.

He also makes mistakes in coverage, which I find to be more concerning. In today's league both safeties need to have solid coverage skills and instincts. He had 0 interceptions last year, and I am almost positive he dropped at least one (week 2?).

In my opinion we should only resign him if he is going to sign a reasonable contract. If he is looking for top-dollar there are other FA safeties that would be better options. I think Zibby could fill in nicely too, he did play SS in college.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1305785512' post='688345']
He missed potentially the biggest tackle of the season in week 13. It's hard to forget bad plays in big moments.

He also makes mistakes in coverage, which I find to be more concerning. In today's league both safeties need to have solid coverage skills and instincts. He had 0 interceptions last year, and I am almost positive he dropped at least one (week 2?).

In my opinion we should only resign him if he is going to sign a reasonable contract. If he is looking for top-dollar there are other FA safeties that would be better options. I think Zibby could fill in nicely too, he did play SS in college.
[/quote]
He had 1 if we're counting the Playoffs. I'm not a fan of box Safeties in general, but with that bias aside, I'd rather see someone else man that spot.

[bmore187]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1305785512' post='688345']
He missed potentially the biggest tackle of the season in week 13. It's hard to forget bad plays in big moments.

He also makes mistakes in coverage, which I find to be more concerning. In today's league both safeties need to have solid coverage skills and instincts. He had 0 interceptions last year, and I am almost positive he dropped at least one (week 2?).

In my opinion we should only resign him if he is going to sign a reasonable contract. If he is looking for top-dollar there are other FA safeties that would be better options. I think Zibby could fill in nicely too, he did play SS in college.
[/quote]


^ What he said

[Rav'n Maniac]

I feel Wilson & Yanda are the most important to resign. Carr is a possibility, not a necessity with last year being his best season, but only if they cut ties with Foxworth to save money. He may be another year from coming back fully from injury anyway.

I'm not opposed to bringing Landry or McClain back but I think they will follow the $$$. The rest I could care less about.

[BmoreRaised]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1305602472' post='687334']
I think people here overrate Wilson too (and underestimate Foxworth), but he is far from average. He's very good. Based on last year only, I'd put him in the top 10 or so cornerbacks of last season.
[/quote]
lol@ top ten corners back after playing what?10 games?

Aso
JJ
Leon Hall
Woodson
Vontae Davis
Quinton Jammer
Joe Haden(who actually played very well for his first season)
Reevis
Cromartie(yes hes better than Wilson)
aqib talib
Tramon Williams
Devon MCcourty
Cromartie-rodgers
Asante Samuel
REALLY TOP 10?
I could probably go on thats off my head,Wilson played well hes not a very good player as u mentioned tho, hes good to average and never played huge in seattle

That being sad I would like him back for the depth but u might argue top 15 through 20 maybe

[BmoreRaised]

[quote name='stopsizzle55' timestamp='1305610232' post='687360']
landry was the worst biggest liability in our defense last year. he is not very good in pass coverage and now has shown he can't even tackle anyone. i.e. snelling in atlanta and redman vs pitt. did you see what wilson did against andre johnson for 3 quarters? he completely shut him down until we went into our three man rush prevent d and let andre put some numbers up. wilson is so much more important than landry.
[/quote]
uh Didnt Wilson let up a 50 yard td pass to johnson right before Halftime and If i recall Johnson lit him up the second half,but its andre johnson its expected

[BmoreRaised]

Yanda is top priority OR Gaither (but i doubt he returns)
Mcclain would be my next choice especially since Mcgahee isnt coming back no need to lose 2 from our backfield
Carr or Wilson either one would be fine ,hey if we signed bgoth even better
Landry would be ok unless we picked up a b etter option of course
TJ or Stallworth i think our draft showed we are not bringing them back but then again who knows

People here overrate Wilson he has never been a great CB and yes he was the best of our mediocre corners last year.I feel Webb might step up within the next 2 years people seem to forget Webb came right back after injury didnt have a preseason,OTA etc.WEbb before he got injured his rookie season looked pretty good,hes tough fast and i like his upside as a player but we'll see.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='BmoreRaised' timestamp='1305798818' post='688354']
uh Didnt Wilson let up a 50 yard td pass to johnson right before Halftime and If i recall Johnson lit him up the second half,but its andre johnson its expected
[/quote]

That play was on Ed. The D ran a Cover 2 and Wilson passed Johnson off. Reed thought he could jump the route but took himself out of position as Johnson ran by him.

In the second half, Andre lit the entire secondary up, not just Josh.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='BmoreRaised' timestamp='1305798818' post='688354']
uh Didnt Wilson let up a 50 yard td pass to johnson right before Halftime and If i recall Johnson lit him up the second half,but its andre johnson its expected
[/quote]
Ed Reed gave up the TD in a Cover 2 look. And no, Wilson was never lit up by Johnson in the second half.

"Matt Schaub tried to take advantage of him too, but Wilson used the game to show the league that his is a name that should be known. While he allowed four balls to be caught, he deflected two passes, and saw three more fall incomplete. Considering that he was covering Andre Johnson on half the passes, it wasn’t a bad game at all. To push that Monday Night game from good to memorable, he won it with a touchdown return of an overtime interception."

He only allowed 4 receptions while forcing 5 incompletions in covering arguably the best WR in the NFL, with 1 of those completions being to Jacoby Jones. So on the contrary, that's actually an impressive performance.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/04/15/secret-superstar-josh-wilson-baltimore-ravens/

[flynismo]

I'm not giving up on Webb, but I don't think he's going to be as good as many of us (myself included) initially thought.Although I do still think he can become a fine #2 type CB.As for Wilson, yeah I think a lot of us overrate him. But not by much. He earned his respect last season.

[Ravensfan23]

Question about Wilson. If the CBA rules go back to 2010, which is very likely, Josh Wilson wouldn't qualify for the 6 years of service time, which means he wouldn't be an unrestricted FA.

So my question is, even though he was only under a 1 year contract with the Ravens, if the CBA goes back to 2010 rules, would the Ravens still control the rights to Wilson as a Restricted FA?

I know we would still control the rights to McClain and Gaither, but I'm not sure about Wilson

[flynismo]

[quote name='BmoreRaised' timestamp='1305798729' post='688353']
lol@ top ten corners back after playing what?10 games?

Aso
JJ
Leon Hall
Woodson
Vontae Davis
Quinton Jammer
Joe Haden(who actually played very well for his first season)
Reevis
Cromartie(yes hes better than Wilson)
aqib talib
Tramon Williams
Devon MCcourty
Cromartie-rodgers
Asante Samuel
REALLY TOP 10?
I could probably go on thats off my head,Wilson played well hes not a very good player as u mentioned tho, hes good to average and never played huge in seattle

That being sad I would like him back for the depth but u might argue top 15 through 20 maybe
[/quote]




Did you read the part where I said [b]"BASED ON LAST SEASON ALONE"?[/b]
[b]
[/b]
Wait, I just read your list of CBs who played "better" than Wilson last year. *barf*

[ravens rule]

Landry has been consistent for us why you guys trippin on bringing him back. and Wilson is a guy i would like to resign, but why hating Foxworth, he played well for us in the end of 09.

[stopsizzle55]

[quote name='BmoreRaised' timestamp='1305798818' post='688354']
uh Didnt Wilson let up a 50 yard td pass to johnson right before Halftime and If i recall Johnson lit him up the second half,but its andre johnson its expected
[/quote]

no we were in zone coverage and johnson was ed reed's responsibility. reed went for the pick and missed and johnson caught the td