Shutdown Showdown:

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Bmoresun' timestamp='1305487682' post='686612']
I can not figure out what peoples obsession is with having a "shutdown corner", believe it or not teams win Superbowls without having a "shutdown corner" to name a few.....
-Pittsburgh, 09, 06
-NYG, 08
-Colt, 07
-Ravens, 2000 (YES Ravens, Duane Starks was not considered a shut down corner by any means in 2000, and C-Mac was a rookie who's best ball was a few years away).

Secondly people maybe you haven't realized that Jimmy Smith or Patrick Peterson HAVEN'T PLAYED A DOWN YET; meaning we have no idea how good they will be. Further yet, how can you expect a rookie to come in, and week one be a "shutdown corner" ???? Who do you expect Jimmy Smith to be Dion Sanders?
Was Joe Haden, Kareem Jackson, Patrick Robinson, Kyle Wilson, or Devin McCourty Shut Down? Answer : NO, McCourty played great don't get me wrong, but in no way was he "shut down".
Those were the names corners taken first round in the 2010 NFL draft for those of you who were wondering.

Patience is a virtue people i hope just as much as any of you that Jimmy Smith turns out to be fantastic, but like any player he is gonna need time, so don't start complaining when week one Jimmy Smith isn't Darrelle Revis.
[/quote]
Starks and CMac weren't shutdowns at that point, but we had the best corner tandem in the league that year. Starks played his best football of his career that year and CMac wasnt a rookie that year.

ps. why are you ornery here man?

[flynismo]

Haha I dont know who pissed in his cheerios....I'm starting to think he's a troll, given his comments in another thread about how clearly superior Ryan is to Flacco.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Bmoresun' timestamp='1305493953' post='686685']
Yeah your right lets remove all reason from arguments cause its a forum, i think that Cary Williams will step up and be a "Shutdown Corner" its OK if i don't back that up with anything cause its a forum and its the off season,in addition no one can criticize that cause its a forum.
[/quote]
You're clearly not understanding what I meant, but oh well.....carry on with your gibberish

[Rav'n Maniac]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1305508006' post='686792']
Haha I dont know who pissed in his cheerios....[b]I'm starting to think he's a troll,[/b] given his comments in another thread about how clearly superior Ryan is to Flacco.
[/quote]
I don't know about that. I just think he's being the Baltimore Sun or (Bmoresun) columnist he usually is, only with a lot of time on his hands at present. lol

[AsianRice]

I think we're going to have NFL shutdown.....

[RL52TheGreatest]

Man, it's really tough to say who's going to be better. I guess it really depends on what type of player you want for your team: a play-making corner who will occasionally give up some big plays as well or a shutdown corner who will do his job, but won't necessarily make those game-changing plays? That's the main difference that I can see between the two because they're both gifted physically (Peterson is more athletic, but it's not as big of a difference as some might think).

I will say that Peterson has the bigger upside though if he can ever master his cover skills to go with his play-making ability. Not to mention that, as some people have said already, I can eventually see him moving to Safety later in his career which only adds to his value. With that being said though, I'm more than happy to have Smith. He's the better cover corner and a better fit for OUR defense since we already have more than enough play-makers. Only time will tell who ends up with the better career, but Smith ended up in an ideal situation.

[flynismo]

It's hard to say which has the most upside; like what happens with Nnamdi, when you dont get tested, you dont get a chance to display certain attributes, and in Jimmy's case that would be his ball skills. And it sounds like that is what seperates the two in the majority opinion so far -- we know Peterson has good ball skills, we have no clue if Smith does or not, because he rarely got the chance to show it either way. It's kinda ironic that that would get held against him; but that's just how it is.According to Jimmy, he claims he has better ball skills than Nnamdi...although he said that a bit tongue in cheek. Not that it matters what he claims...especially coming from him lol..no one ever accused him of being humble or modest. But until he actually proves it, we have to assume Peterson has the edge there

[RL52TheGreatest]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1305578922' post='687118']
It's hard to say which has the most upside; like what happens with Nnamdi, when you dont get tested, you dont get a chance to display certain attributes, and in Jimmy's case that would be his ball skills. And it sounds like that is what seperates the two in the majority opinion so far -- [b]we know Peterson has good ball skills, we have no clue if Smith does or not, because he rarely got the chance to show it either way. It's kinda ironic that that would get held against him; but that's just how it is.[/b]According to Jimmy, he claims he has better ball skills than Nnamdi...although he said that a bit tongue in cheek. Not that it matters what he claims...especially coming from him lol..no one ever accused him of being humble or modest. But until he actually proves it, we have to assume Peterson has the edge there
[/quote]
That is true. I'd like to think that Jimmy has good ball skills as well, but we won't really know for sure until he finally gets a chance to show it. Even if he does though, Peterson made some plays in college that were jaw-dropping so it's hard to argue against him having the bigger upside in terms of play-making ability.

[Shammy]

Peterson is a slightly better athlete / play maker .. Smith is a sliightly better pure cover corner

[Guest RBates]

Jimmy Smith is better, but his tackling is horrible.

[Thepurplehaze]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1305597142' post='687294']
Jimmy Smith is better, but his tackling is horrible.
[/quote]
skip to 35 seconds in and come back to me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db4x3KRlZEc

[flynismo]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1305597142' post='687294']<br />Jimmy Smith is better, but his tackling is horrible.<br />[/quote]

hmm...

Well, Peterson may not excel in every aspect, but he is very well rounded nonetheless; he doesn't have an area that he is really weak in. So it would be hard to argue that Jimmy is better if you think his tackling is horrible.

Speaking of which, if by 'horrible' you mean better than any DB not named Peterson, then I agree wholeheartedly.

[Bmoresun]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1305506134' post='686763']
Starks and CMac weren't shutdowns at that point, but we had the best corner tandem in the league that year. Starks played his best football of his career that year and you wouldn't have been able to tell CMac was a rookie that year at all.

ps. why are you ornery here man?
[/quote]

Let me just correct you real fast cause your completely wrong, we did not have the best CB's in 2000, in fact neither of our starters made the pro bowl that season. However, the Raiders had a guy you might have heard of named Charles Woodson, and another guy named Eric Allen (6 time pro bowler, and one time 1st team all pro), that would be what? 3 more pro bowls than C-Mac and Starks combined? But thats not all, in 2000 the Miami Dolphins had two corners named Sam Madison and Patrick Surtain. And in 2000 guess who started for the AFC in the Pro Bowl, Sam Madison, who also happened to get first team all pro that season too. So while yes our corners played very well that season they were NOT the best tandem by any means.

Im ornery because people like you don't do the necessary research before posting comments.

[BmoreRaised]

[quote name='Bmoresun' timestamp='1305487682' post='686612']
I can not figure out what peoples obsession is with having a "shutdown corner", believe it or not teams win Superbowls without having a "shutdown corner" to name a few.....
-Pittsburgh, 09, 06
-NYG, 08
-Colt, 07
-Ravens, 2000 (YES Ravens, Duane Starks was not considered a shut down corner by any means in 2000, and C-Mac was a rookie who's best ball was a few years away).

Secondly people maybe you haven't realized that Jimmy Smith or Patrick Peterson HAVEN'T PLAYED A DOWN YET; meaning we have no idea how good they will be. Further yet, how can you expect a rookie to come in, and week one be a "shutdown corner" ???? Who do you expect Jimmy Smith to be Dion Sanders?
Was Joe Haden, Kareem Jackson, Patrick Robinson, Kyle Wilson, or Devin McCourty Shut Down? Answer : NO, McCourty played great don't get me wrong, but in no way was he "shut down".
Those were the names corners taken first round in the 2010 NFL draft for those of you who were wondering.

Patience is a virtue people i hope just as much as any of you that Jimmy Smith turns out to be fantastic, but like any player he is gonna need time, so don't start complaining when week one Jimmy Smith isn't Darrelle Revis.
[/quote]
I agree with most u said nobody really knows who will be the best NFL player as far as college it was Peterson but in the NFL who knows i do hope for the best out of Smith

[BmoreRaised]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1305506134' post='686763']
Starks and CMac weren't shutdowns at that point, but we had the best corner tandem in the league that year. Starks played his best football of his career that year and you wouldn't have been able to tell CMac was a rookie that year at all.

ps. why are you ornery here man?
[/quote]
lol what?the best Cb tandem? are you crazy? our front 7 was legendary that year,yes and sparks was a good player but nowhere near the best tandem

[BmoreRaised]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1305597959' post='687301']
hmm...

Well, Peterson may not excel in every aspect, but he is very well rounded nonetheless; he doesn't have an area that he is really weak in. So it would be hard to argue that Jimmy is better if you think his tackling is horrible.

Speaking of which, if by 'horrible' you mean better than any DB not named Peterson, then I agree wholeheartedly.
[/quote]
well his tackles has been questioned before but i dont think its a big issue,i dont know if id call his tackling the best besides peterson but it isnt horrible as the person stated.

[Kwothdaraven]

Im going with jimmy smith.

Peterson is more of a charles woodson whereas jimmy is more of an asomougha. Woodson will gamble and get burnt from time to time but he will also come up with the spectacular play. Nnamdi quietly eliminates the opposing teams #1 reciever and isnt even tested anymore.

Who would you rather have? Tough choice.


Imo prince isnt in this conversation. Hes way overhyped. He gave almost move catches in one game against Blackmon than jimmy gave up the past 2 years total.

[BmoreRaised]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1305496608' post='686709']
ok sorry nismo now to get back to the original, I think smith being longer, and equally athletis, with his combination of reppin 224 the most time I would have to say that he is my pick. He has all the physical tools and with reed over the top he can take more chances early to get his ball skills down, or vice versa he can get a pass deflection and ed reed can turn it into an INT i.e. the ray to reed alley oop in Buffalo.
[/quote]
so u go with smith over PP because hes athletic and benched 225 lbs 24 times?Id take smith because of the situation hes in with reed and big ray to guide him but i feel PP has better work ethic and work ethic will take u a long way in the nfl,talent gets u in the league but stayin there needs work ethic and desire to be the best also confidence is good but u cant be overly confident u have to be humble it keeps ur edge also keeps u working hard. but if i truly had to pick and lets say PP and Smith were both there for the ravens id take PP jus tbecause he has no off field issuesa and very dedicated to improving himself and winning not to mention hes a great talent on top of that

[1/28/01]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1305572672' post='687071']
I think we're going to have NFL shutdown.....
[/quote]
I think you're a little confused as to the topic of this thread......

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Bmoresun' timestamp='1305621234' post='687377']
Let me just correct you real fast cause your completely wrong, we did not have the best CB's in 2000, in fact neither of our starters made the pro bowl that season. However, the Raiders had a guy you might have heard of named Charles Woodson, and another guy named Eric Allen (6 time pro bowler, and one time 1st team all pro), that would be what? 3 more pro bowls than C-Mac and Starks combined? But thats not all, in 2000 the Miami Dolphins had two corners named Sam Madison and Patrick Surtain. And in 2000 guess who started for the AFC in the Pro Bowl, Sam Madison, who also happened to get first team all pro that season too. So while yes our corners played very well that season they were NOT the best tandem by any means.

Im ornery because people like you don't do the necessary research before posting comments.
[/quote]
Yes forgot about the Raiders tandem.... I'd still take Starks and CMac over the Dolphins corners that year. Surtain didn't hit his stride until a couple years later.

[20ravens52]

[quote name='Shammy' timestamp='1305581879' post='687155']
Peterson is a slightly better athlete / play maker .. Smith is a sliightly better pure cover corner
[/quote]

That pretty much sums up what I think.

[Free Agent]

While Patrick Peterson is a playmaker, Jimmy Smith is the best cover corner. I think Peterson slightly edges out Smith as the best corner in the 2011 draft, but Smith is better than Amukamara.

[SpeedKills]

[quote name='Free Agent' timestamp='1305656884' post='687515']
While Patrick Peterson is a playmaker, Jimmy Smith is the best cover corner. I think Peterson slightly edges out Smith as the best corner in the 2011 draft, but Smith is better than Amukamara.
[/quote]

I think I disagree with you there. I think Peterson is the best all-around PLAYER of that threesome - he'll score if he gets the ball in his hands, he can cover very well, and he can even play safety. But if you're talking pure cornerback, then Jimmy gets my vote. Plain and simple, he's just better at covering WRs than Peterson is.

[scrock]

Don't know who will be better, that's hard to say, I think both will be good, potentially elite shutdown corners.

I know what I've read is if Jimmy Smith didn't have 'character concerns' he would have been the #1 CB in the draft over Peterson and Prince...

[Ravenslifer]

I don't think there can be a real answer to the question unless one significantly outperforms the other this season. The same arguments can be made: in my opinion, Peterson played on the better team and certainly the better defense, which helped him. At the same time, Smith played against what was probably weaker competition overall, which helped him. If we want a true comparison, both will play the Steelers, Rams, Seahawks, Bengals, 49ers, Browns, and against each other, assuming all 16 games are played this season. Meaning they'll both probably be asked to cover receivers like AJ Green, Mike Williams, and other teams' number ones (Boldin v. Fitzgerald week 8). If one is clearly able to shut guys down more than the other, I'd say you'd have somewhat of an answer. Even then, this is their rookie season, and even guys like Nnamdi Asomugha and Derrelle Revis took some time adjusting before becoming the great players they are today. Ask this question again in three to five years and you'll get a better answer.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1305658119' post='687520']
Don't know who will be better, that's hard to say, I think both will be good, potentially elite shutdown corners.

I know what I've read is if Jimmy Smith didn't have 'character concerns' [b]he would have been the #1 CB in the draft over Peterson[/b] and Prince...
[/quote]
Not sure about that. Most articles claimed him to be a Top 15 talent. But being drafted over Peterson? Very doubtful.

[Free Agent]

[quote name='SpeedKills' timestamp='1305657790' post='687518']
I think I disagree with you there. I think Peterson is the best all-around PLAYER of that threesome - he'll score if he gets the ball in his hands, he can cover very well, and he can even play safety. But if you're talking pure cornerback, then Jimmy gets my vote. Plain and simple, he's just better at covering WRs than Peterson is.
[/quote]

I agree. Peterson is better in zone coverage, and he makes plays, whether returning punts or making picks. Smith is a cover corner, and I will go so far as to say he was a shutdown corner in his last few year(s) at Colorado.

[wayne]

[quote name='BmoreRaised' timestamp='1305623747' post='687387']
so u go with smith over PP because hes athletic and benched 225 lbs 24 times?Id take smith because of the situation hes in with reed and big ray to guide him but i feel PP has better work ethic and work ethic will take u a long way in the nfl,talent gets u in the league but stayin there needs work ethic and desire to be the best also confidence is good but u cant be overly confident u have to be humble it keeps ur edge also keeps u working hard. but if i truly had to pick and lets say PP and Smith were both there for the ravens id take PP jus tbecause he has no off field issuesa and very dedicated to improving himself and winning not to mention hes a great talent on top of that
[/quote]

We have a winner right here. The reason I feel Smith will be more successful b/c of the situation he's in playing with great field generals like Ed and Ray that will put him in better situation to succeed. If we had a chance to get PP before Smith we would have got him.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1305665260' post='687597']
We have a winner right here. The reason I feel Smith will be more successful b/c of the situation he's in playing with great field generals like Ed and Ray that will put him in better situation to succeed. If we had a chance to get PP before Smith we would have got him.
[/quote]
Ya the only way to really compare them specifically as players is to take their respective teams out of the equation. Because Peterson went to a pretty doo doo defense he could get over shadowed from the role JSmith could potentially play in Baltimore in a top 5 defense. Not only that but look at the QBs Peterson will face on the regular, Bradford(good) and whoever in the hell the Seahawks and Niners put on the field and as of right now thats bad. Peterson and DRC could be a damn good tandem if the Cardinals could ever get a pass rush going.

[Jamal]

Smith has the tools to become better, but lets not become big enough homers to forget Patrick Peterson was/is considered the best player in the entire draft.

Right now the answer is Patrick Peterson easily. He played in a tougher conference, faced the #1 WR's, and shut down players while constantly being targeted. As well as an exceptional returner to along with that.