Flacco Superior To Ryan In The Clutch

[Guest Maryland1]

[size="2"][i][font="Verdana"][color="#ff0000"]MOD NOTE: [/color] [color="#0000ff"]Please keep this on topic and refrain from the personal attacks. Ty.[/color][/font][/i][/size]

[ed.s52]

[quote name='Bmoresun' timestamp='1305507836' post='686791']
Wow i guess you didn't get a great score on your reading comprehension tests, i specifically said Ben doesn't put up great stats but he wins games, that's why he is a great QB, [b]same applies for Brady - puts up decent stats but wins games. end of story
[/b][/quote]


I think Brady's record 50 touchdowns, 68% completion, 4,800 yards, and 117 QB rating with only 8 INT in 2007 say differently.

Or how about the 111 rating he had this year with is 36-4 TD/INT ratio

Or his 4,400 yard a year before that.

[Bltravens]

Matt Ryan playoff stats:

46of69 for a 66.7% completions, 385 total yards, 3 TDs 4 INTs for a 71.2 QB rating. He has also never thrown for over 200 yards in a playoff game.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1305508838' post='686803']
I think Brady's record 50 touchdowns, 68% completion, 4,800 yards, and 117 QB rating with only 8 INT in 2007 say differently.

Or how about the 111 rating he had this year with is 36-4 TD/INT ratio

Or his 4,400 yard a year before that.
[/quote]

ha yeah, I didnt even bother to point that one out because i am still in disbelief that it was said that puts up DECENT numbers but knows how to win games.

He has O-line issues, hasnt had a running game, no great receiving corps, you had randy and then nobody, won a superbowl with deion branch as your number one receiver, yeah just chose to leave it alone.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Bmoresun' timestamp='1305506902' post='686776']
Who cares about being clutch in the regular season, no one wants to go 16-0 in the regular season and than lose in the postseason, the object of the game isn't to win games in the regular season its the Superbowl, you are delusional, the postseason is where players are defined, and legacies are made, not week four against the Steelers without Ben. Big Ben will go down as one of the greatest QB's of this era, not because he puts up huge stats but because he wins games that matter, which happen to be in the postseason.
[/quote]
Yes, I'm delusional. I'm the one who's claiming that a loss that derived from mistakes made by the RB, C, and several WRs, as well as the QB should be placed on a single player, right? Hilarious. Maybe we should teach Flacco to run his own routes, and catch the ball himself, given that everyone else's miscues are still his responsibility.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1305509008' post='686807']
ha yeah, I didnt even bother to point that one out because i am still in disbelief that it was said that puts up DECENT numbers but knows how to win games.

He has O-line issues, hasnt had a running game, no great receiving corps, you had randy and then nobody, won a superbowl with deion branch as your number one receiver, yeah just chose to leave it alone.
[/quote]
Brady's had one of the best Oline's of the last decade on a consistent basis.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1305509091' post='686811']
Brady's had one of the best Oline's of the last decade on a consistent basis.
[/quote]

I just had this argument at work, and I will agree they are consistent but I just dont see them as all that great

[ed.s52]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1305509008' post='686807']
ha yeah, I didnt even bother to point that one out because i am still in disbelief that it was said that puts up DECENT numbers but knows how to win games.

He has O-line issues, hasnt had a running game, no great receiving corps, you had randy and then nobody, won a superbowl with deion branch as your number one receiver, yeah just chose to leave it alone, although not exceedingly elite imo.
[/quote]


I know what you mean leave it alone..... but I can't agree that Ben Watson, Moss, and Welker wasn't a top of the line recieving corps and that both Mankins and Light have helped keep that line proficient.

Still, his numbers don't lie.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='stopsizzle55' timestamp='1305506207' post='686766']
no one cares if your clutch in the regular season. you win championships in the postseason. thats when your career is made
[/quote]
Houshmandzadeh drops the ball in a clutch situation on 4th and 18. Is Flacco suddenly less clutch because of that? No.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

I would say chiefs, giants, vikings, saints, falcons, broncos,eagles, titans, and panthers have better o lines. I mean I respect peoples opinion about their line I just dont see them with these guys o line.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1305509341' post='686814']
I know what you mean leave it alone..... but I can't agree that Ben Watson, Moss, and Welker wasn't a top of the line recieving corps and that both Mankins and Light have helped keep that line proficient.

Still, his numbers don't lie.
[/quote]

I was talking the first one, because in my mind that is the only one that can even be somewhat coherently construed as DECENT.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1305509446' post='686816']
I would say chiefs, giants, vikings, saints, falcons, broncos,eagles, titans, and panthers have better o lines. I mean I respect peoples opinion about their line I just dont see them with these guys o line.
[/quote]
I wouldn't agree with the Eagles. They gave up the 4th most sacks, and were seen as the Achilles heel of their Offense.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1305509787' post='686819']
I wouldn't agree with the Eagles. They gave up the 4th most sacks, and were seen as the Achilles heel of their Offense.
[/quote]

yeah I guess I can agree with that one, but the talent they have is better than that I guess that is what I was going off of, but yeah their pass protections wasnt great, although it is hard to protect a scrambler.

[stopsizzle55]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1305509412' post='686815']
Houshmandzadeh drops the ball in a clutch situation on 4th and 18. Is Flacco suddenly less clutch because of that? No.
[/quote]

we wouldn't have been in that situation if flacco had led us to any points in the second half

[berad]

[quote name='stopsizzle55' timestamp='1305510033' post='686821']
we wouldn't have been in that situation if flacco had led us to any points in the second half
[/quote]

So it's Joe Flacco's fault that Anquan Boldin dropped a TD pass? I realize QB is the most important position on the field, especially in todays NFL, but it is still a team sport. One guy can't do it all and one guy can't take credit/blame for it all.

It's like holding Ray Lewis accountable for Fabian Washington's mistakes.

[AwakenTheDemon]

I honestly don't know which arguments are the worst, the infamous Smith/Flacco "debates" or this tiresome Elite/Not-Elite/Jury Out "debate" on Flacco. Poor Joe, dude plays so well for us and is the first franchise quarterback we've gotten our hands on, and this is the muck he gets pulled through.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1305509894' post='686820']
yeah I guess I can agree with that one, but the talent they have is better than that I guess that is what I was going off of, but yeah their pass protections wasnt great, although it is hard to protect a scrambler.
[/quote]
That's a good point. Vick was sacked often in Atlanta. I can attest to that myself, being an ex-Falcons fan. It was just surprising that Kolb was sacked 15 times in a substantially limited amount of playing time. And the Eagles certainly do have talent. I think losing their starting Center really hurt them.

[flynismo]

[quote name='stopsizzle55' timestamp='1305510033' post='686821']<br />we wouldn't have been in that situation if flacco had led us to any points in the second half<br />[/quote]


or another way to look at it is we would have been in that situation if our defense held on to a 14 point lead.

It's unfair to expect Flacco to light up one of the league's fiercest defenses the entire game, but not expect the D to hold up their end of the deal in a playoff game.

[Free Agent]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1305480177' post='686546']
Those are both offensive teams. So while his wins might be less, he will still have better numbers.
[/quote]

Ah yes. Good point. Although the Saints DO have a solid defense, and the Bucs defense is improving rapidly. Ryan will have some pressure from the newest Bucs DEs in Daquan Bowers and Adrian Clayborn. As I said, it is no AFC North, but it is still a reasonably challenging division.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='stopsizzle55' timestamp='1305510033' post='686821']
we wouldn't have been in that situation if flacco had led us to any points in the second half
[/quote]
The INT to Clark was an awful decision. But we also wouldn't have been in that situation if Rice didn't fumble the ball at our 28 yard line, or if Birk didn't hit his own thigh during the snap, and give away another possession practically inside of our redzone. Anquan Boldin drops a surefire TD in the second half and that falls on Flacco?

[Ravensfan23]

It's funny how things play out. If Q catches that TD pass, the Ravens take a 28-24 lead. With a 4 point lead late in the game, the offensive strategy by the Steelers is probably much different. If the Ravens Defense holds on to the 4 point lead, Flacco is viewed as the man.

However the pass was dropped, to no fault of Flacco and he continues to be viewed as the guy that can't get it done against the Steelers.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1305510675' post='686829']
The INT to Clark was an awful decision. But we also wouldn't have been in that situation if Rice didn't fumble the ball at our 28 yard line, or if Birk didn't hit his own thigh during the snap, and give away another possession practically inside of our redzone. Anquan Boldin drops a surefire TD in the second half and that falls on Flacco?
[/quote]

The INT wasn't an awful decision it was just a poor throw. Flacco put too much air under the ball and didn't have great placement on the throw. If Flacco throws that ball without as much air and closer to the sideline it's probably a completion or at worse it's out of bounds. Or he has to throw it in a jump ball type fashion and allow Heap to go up and get it with the defender having his back turned.

That is the type of throw that separates the Elite QBs in the NFL from others. That ball had to have prefect placement and Heap needed to be given a chance to catch the ball. Neither happened on that play.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1305512765' post='686839']
The INT wasn't an awful decision it was just a poor throw. Flacco put too much air under the ball and didn't have great placement on the throw. If Flacco throws that ball without as much air and closer to the sideline it's probably a completion or at worse it's out of bounds. Or he has to throw it in a jump ball type fashion and allow Heap to go up and get it with the defender having his back turned.

That is the type of throw that separates the Elite QBs in the NFL from others. That ball had to have prefect placement and Heap needed to be given a chance to catch the ball. Neither happened on that play.
[/quote]
It could've been a much better throw, yes. But I still consider it a bad decision. Aside from McClain running to the flats, which was well covered by Polamalu, Heap was the only Ravens player on the right side of the field beyond the first 3 yards. Clark saw that the slant route by Boldin was well covered, and began sprinting toward Heap before the throw was even made. William Gay was trailing him on his outside shoulder, so the throw would've had to have been remarkable just to ensure that it wouldn't be intercepted.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1305512765' post='686839']
The INT wasn't an awful decision it was just a poor throw. Flacco put too much air under the ball and didn't have great placement on the throw. If Flacco throws that ball without as much air and closer to the sideline it's probably a completion or at worse it's out of bounds. Or he has to throw it in a jump ball type fashion and allow Heap to go up and get it with the defender having his back turned.

That is the type of throw that separates the Elite QBs in the NFL from others. That ball had to have prefect placement and Heap needed to be given a chance to catch the ball. Neither happened on that play.
[/quote]
True, that is one glaring issue Flacco has right now at QB. Too often do we see him just loft it into the sky. He's ballin' it out when he's not supposed to be.

[stopsizzle55]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1305510151' post='686822']
So it's Joe Flacco's fault that Anquan Boldin dropped a TD pass? I realize QB is the most important position on the field, especially in todays NFL, but it is still a team sport. One guy can't do it all and one guy can't take credit/blame for it all.

It's like holding Ray Lewis accountable for Fabian Washington's mistakes.
[/quote]

its not entirely like that because joe flacco is the only player on our team that has the ball in his hands every single offensive play. so he dictates what happens. no, its not his fault that q dropped that ball but he could have come back and thrown a td on the next play. all im saying is that he hasnt gotten the job done early on in his career

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='stopsizzle55' timestamp='1305513862' post='686851']
its not entirely like that because joe flacco is the only player on our team that has the ball in his hands every single offensive play. so he dictates what happens. no, its not his fault that q dropped that ball but [b]he could have come back and thrown a td on the next play.[/b] all im saying is that he hasnt gotten the job done early on in his career
[/quote]
It was on 3rd down...

[-Truth-]

[quote name='stopsizzle55' timestamp='1305513862' post='686851']
its not entirely like that because joe flacco is the only player on our team that has the ball in his hands every single offensive play. so he dictates what happens. [b]no, its not his fault that q dropped that ball but he could have come back and thrown a td on the next play.[/b] all im saying is that he hasnt gotten the job done early on in his career
[/quote]
We ran the ball twice, and threw it on third down. He began the drive with a 21 yard completion to Heap. Then McGahee and Rice were handed off to, and Joe's second throw was dropped. Since Flacco wasn't allowed to audible, he did everything he could on that series.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='stopsizzle55' timestamp='1305513862' post='686851']
its not entirely like that because joe flacco is the only player on our team that has the ball in his hands every single offensive play. so he dictates what happens. no, its not his fault that q dropped that ball but he could have come back and thrown a td on the next play. all im saying is that he hasnt gotten the job done early on in his career
[/quote]

Even if it wasn't a third down play, he could have come back and thrown a touchdown, an interception, a five yard pick up, a 30 yard bomb, taken a sack, or a myriad of other possibilities. So I really don't see what the point of saying "he could have come back and thrown a TD".

[flynismo]

[quote name='stopsizzle55' timestamp='1305513862' post='686851']<br />its not entirely like that because joe flacco is the only player on our team that has the ball in his hands every single offensive play. so he dictates what happens. no, its not his fault that q dropped that ball but he could have come back and thrown a td on the next play. all im saying is that he hasnt gotten the job done early on in his career<br />[/quote]


how many TDs is he supposed to throw on the Steelers?

Besides, as someone mentioned, it occured on third down anyway; so Flacco didn't get the chance to make up for Boldin's drop...

But something I want to point out is what a great throw it was by Flacco in the first place; threading the needle, splitting defenders and putting it where only Boldin could make a play on it.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1305513705' post='686849']
It could've been a much better throw, yes. But I still consider it a bad decision. Aside from McClain running to the flats, which was well covered by Polamalu, Heap was the only Ravens player on the right side of the field beyond the first 3 yards. Clark saw that the slant route by Boldin was well covered, and began sprinting toward Heap before the throw was even made. William Gay was trailing him on his outside shoulder, so the throw would've had to have been remarkable just to ensure that it wouldn't be intercepted.
[/quote]

The only reason why Clark had an opportunity to make a play on the ball was because of the over throw. If you watch the replay from the endzone angle you'll see that while Gay had pretty good position, but there would have been no way for him to get his head turned around and make a play on the ball.

Heap was running a corner route and the ball sailed on Flacco like he was throwing a 9 route. If the ball is thrown with less air and more towards the sideline, it'll either drop into Heap's hands just over Gay's head, or Clark will make a great play just to get over and push Heap out of bounds before the catch.

[color="#4B0082"][url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011011500/2010/POST19/ravens@steelers/watch#watch"]Link[/url][/color]

Again, it wasn't a easy throw, but it's one that separates the Elite QB from the good ones, and Flacco is actually good enough to make that throw. He just has to be consistent in his mechanics and ball placement.