Flacco Superior To Ryan In The Clutch

[mgridda]

This is a great article where two debators go back and forth a couple of rounds. The victor is rather clear. Anyway, I found this excerpt to provide the greatest vindication. This really needed to be said, and I want to make sure all of you Ravens fans get the story straight anytime someone perpetuates the misconception:

[quote]Matt Ryan has also developed this reputation for being cool and calm under pressure executing the 2 minute drill to perfection, even gaining the nickname “Matty Ice” for his efforts late in games. However, this could not be further from the truth. Ryan has played terrible in the 2 minute offense. Last year with 2 minutes left in either half, Ryan was 41/81 (50.6%) for 446 yards (5.5 YPA), 5 TDs, 4 INTs, and a whopping QB Rtg of 67.2. Joe Flacco actually deserves that reputation. He was splendid operating the 2 minute drill last year. He posted a QB Rtg of 96.1 in the final 2 minutes of either half, throwing for 5 TDs and 1 INT on 51 attempts. Flacco was the more opportune QB overall. He was overall better in the 4th quarter than Ryan and was a bit better when playing from behind.[/quote]

Source: http://nflminds.blogspot.com/2011/05/joe-flacco-vs-matt-ryan-debate.html

[Moderator 3]

Maybe you should send this to Theisman. :-)

[arnie_uk]

[quote]Sacks in Which the QB Held onto the Ball 3 Seconds or More:

Joe Flacco – 25 (1st in NFL by 5 sacks)

[/quote]

[quote]The Ravens lost 345 yards in sacks, 2nd in the NFL[/quote]

This is one major criticism of flacco, and something hell have to improve on this year. Yes it can be said that some of this is cams fault trying to turn our recivers into something they werent, but with the additions weve added via the draft can he really have an ecuse this year?

This could be the year that really seperates flacco and ryan, if flacco can step up with the weapons that have been added, if he cant, and ryan excels, i think we might have to concede that ryan has the better pocket prescence by a long shot, and as everything else is almost similar, that will give him the edge....

[Ravens Lover]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1305373742' post='686217']
This is one major criticism of flacco, and something hell have to improve on this year. Yes it can be said that some of this is cams fault trying to turn our recivers into something they werent, but with the additions weve added via the draft can he really have an ecuse this year?

This could be the year that really seperates flacco and ryan, if flacco can step up with the weapons that have been added, if he cant, and ryan excels, i think we might have to concede that ryan has the better pocket prescence by a long shot, and as everything else is almost similar, that will give him the edge....
[/quote]

Here I am doing this again but I partially blame Cam for this because he wanted to send guys like Boldin deep when they aren't deep guys so they couldn't get open quickly

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1305373742' post='686217']
This is one major criticism of flacco, and something hell have to improve on this year. Yes it can be said that some of this is cams fault trying to turn our recivers into something they werent, but with the additions weve added via the draft can he really have an ecuse this year?

This could be the year that really seperates flacco and ryan, if flacco can step up with the weapons that have been added, if he cant, and ryan excels, i think we might have to concede that ryan has the better pocket prescence by a long shot, and as everything else is almost similar, that will give him the edge....
[/quote]

We needed faster receivers, and now we'll have them. We should be ok.

[SpeedKills]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1305384644' post='686228']
We needed faster receivers, and now we'll have them. We should be ok.
[/quote]

That's always been the great equalizer - except at RB, Ryan has had better offensive weapons his entire career. If Flacco clicks with Torrey, and his numbers go up (duh), then I think it's safe to say that Flacco is the better player. Painfully obvious, I know. But that's really what it boils down to.

[RavensAllTheWay]

You have to hold onto the ball longer when your receivers struggle to get separation. That's [i]part[/i] of the reason why Flacco held on all as long as he did. Also, I clearly remember [b]many[/b] plays last season in which someone was in the backfield immediately and Flacco rushed outside and threw it away quickly. The guy says Joe struggles to get the ball out of bounds, but I disagree.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1305388145' post='686241']
You have to hold onto the ball longer when your receivers struggle to get separation. That's [i]part[/i] of the reason why Flacco held on all as long as he did. Also, I clearly remember [b]many[/b] plays last season in which someone was in the backfield immediately and Flacco rushed outside and threw it away quickly. The guy says Joe struggles to get the ball out of bounds, but I disagree.
[/quote]

It was sort of a perfect storm. Sometimes the protection was great, and we couldn't get separation sometimes there was separation and no protection. The run game was inadequate. Sometime's the play calling was poor. That's what people need to realize, it wasn't one thing with the offense. It was everything. I feel like if you put flacco on the 2000 team with that talent he'd have destroyed people in the passing game.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1305388634' post='686243']
It was sort of a perfect storm. Sometimes the protection was great, and we couldn't get separation sometimes there was separation and no protection. The run game was inadequate. Sometime's the play calling was poor. That's what people need to realize, it wasn't one thing with the offense. It was everything. I feel like if you put flacco on the 2000 team with that talent he'd have destroyed people in the passing game.
[/quote]
You are absolutely correct.

[Free Agent]

As long as Flacco's new weapons (Torrey Smith, Tandon Doss, and any free agents we may add) are utilized properly, and Flacco has solid pass protection, I have no doubt that Flacco will be statistically better than Ryan next season.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='SpeedKills' timestamp='1305387780' post='686238']
That's always been the great equalizer - except at RB, Ryan has had better offensive weapons his entire career. If Flacco clicks with Torrey, and his numbers go up (duh), then I think it's safe to say that Flacco is the better player. Painfully obvious, I know. But that's really what it boils down to.
[/quote]
I agree that Flacco really needs to take it to the next level this season. Hopefully the OL will be better, and I think its safe to say there is more talent at the offensive skill positions than we have ever had. I see no reason (other than awful play-calling) why Flacco shouldnt pass for at least 4,000 yards next season.

Now Ryan might actually have more pressure than Flacco to make strides next season. Atlanta put a ton of faith in him when they gave away their entire draft for a stud WR. If Ryan cant make it work with Julio that decision is going to look really bad. They also got Darren Sproles 2.0 with Jacquizz Rodgers. That offense should get a lot better with those acquisitions.

[ROH522155]

Post this on a Falcons message board...They'll go nuts

[hawkprey]

[quote]Argument For Ryan Round 2
I’ll make this short and sweet. I do not agree that Flacco was the more opportune QB.[b] Ryan was the better player in the 2nd half of football games as indicated by his 89.7 QB Rtg in the 2nd half compared to Flacco’s 84.6.[/b] One of the most important situations for a quarterback to be sharp, anyone would agree, is 3rd down. Flacco completed only 57.2% of his passes on 3rd down and had an 84.6 QB Rtg. Matt Ryan was spectacular on 3rd down, completing 63.3% of his passes for a 104.1 QB Rtg.

[b]More advanced stats now. Approximate value is pro-footballreference.com’s attempt to attach a single number value to every player-season.[/b] In 2010, Ryan had an approximate value of 16 compared to Joe Flacco’s 12. Ryan’s career approximate value is 40 compared to Flacco’s 36. Also from advancedstats.com, we have win probability added. This stat is similar to WAR in baseball and PER in basketball in that it attempts to reveal how valuable a player was to his team in terms of wins. Matt Ryan was 2nd of all QBs with a 4.54 WPA compared to Joe Flacco’s 3.20.

Again, you say taking sacks is not a bad thing. [b]But it is when you see how many yards the Ravens lost due to Joe Flacco’s inability to just throw the ball out of bounds. [/b]The Ravens lost 345 yards in sacks, 2nd in the NFL. The Falcons lost just 195. Ryan was clearly the better QB in terms of pocket presence and ability to get the ball out quickly, which, as we all know, is one of the most important aspects for a QB in the NFL.

I’ll conclude this by saying good arguments; it was a fun debate and a very even one. It’s a matter of preference when comparing these two quarterbacks. I personally will take the player that I believe is more valuable to his team, which is Matt Ryan. Thank you for the debate.

Hope you enjoyed reading this argument. As always, comments are appreciated. Don’t be afraid to shore your thoughts on the subject.[/quote]

1) Flacco has a lower second half QB rating because his team was ahead in almost all of the 2nd halves of games. So Joe was handing off more whereas Ryan needed to get touchdowns.

2) Ryan may seem better on 3rd downs, but remember that the Falcons' offense was also designed for the 3rd down, which is why they led the league in 3rd downs. However, both Joe and Matt converted 42% on 3rd, while Flacco was throwing from 3rd and long slightly more often (%-wise) than Ryan. ([url="http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/03/2010-nfl-staying-out-of-3rd-long-stats-conversion-rates/"]link[/url]). So it seems like both were as effective despite Ryan's better QB rating on 3that particular down.

3) Clearly Ryan is more valuable, because 16 is bigger than 12. How did they reach this value? No proof - no argument.

4) Saying Joe costs his team by not throwing the ball out of bounds and taking a sack is neglecting Joe's ability to extend the play. Joe is bigger and stronger than Ryan, and has a better ability to avoid tackles. So how is Ryan's pocket presence more important when he's the only one of the two who has a reliable pocket? We've seen how Matt performs behind a broken line and it is much worse than Flacco. Also, Flacco has played the sack-leading Steelers twice as well as the opportunistic Jets. Not that Flacco went up against all the elites in defense, but... NFC West. That is all.

You can argue about Ryan being better in certain statistical categories, but overall, Joe has the better stats with a worse O-line and worse receivers. And he's got the playoff wins. How is there even a debate?

[SpeedKills]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1305396062' post='686279']
1) Flacco has a lower second half QB rating because his team was ahead in almost all of the 2nd halves of games. So Joe was handing off more whereas Ryan needed to get touchdowns.

2) Ryan may seem better on 3rd downs, but remember that the Falcons' offense was also designed for the 3rd down, which is why they led the league in 3rd downs. However, both Joe and Matt converted 42% on 3rd, while Flacco was throwing from 3rd and long slightly more often (%-wise) than Ryan. ([url="http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/03/2010-nfl-staying-out-of-3rd-long-stats-conversion-rates/"]link[/url]). So it seems like both were as effective despite Ryan's better QB rating on 3that particular down.

3) Clearly Ryan is more valuable, because 16 is bigger than 12. How did they reach this value? No proof - no argument.

4) Saying Joe costs his team by not throwing the ball out of bounds and taking a sack is neglecting Joe's ability to extend the play. Joe is bigger and stronger than Ryan, and has a better ability to avoid tackles. So how is Ryan's pocket presence more important when he's the only one of the two who has a reliable pocket? We've seen how Matt performs behind a broken line and it is much worse than Flacco. Also, Flacco has played the sack-leading Steelers twice as well as the opportunistic Jets. Not that Flacco went up against all the elites in defense, but... NFC West. That is all.

You can argue about Ryan being better in certain statistical categories, but overall, Joe has the better stats with a worse O-line and worse receivers. And he's got the playoff wins. How is there even a debate?
[/quote]

There's a debate because Ryan has been the media's golden boy since he was in his senior season at BC. That, and he went third overall in '08, and Flacco went 18th. But I agree, there should be less of an argument than there is.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='Free Agent' timestamp='1305392505' post='686262']
As long as Flacco's new weapons (Torrey Smith, Tandon Doss, and any free agents we may add) are utilized properly, and Flacco has solid pass protection, I have no doubt that Flacco will be statistically better than Ryan next season.
[/quote]
I doubt it. Even if those things happen (and with Cam Cameron's game plan and the Raven's o-line it probably won't) Ryan will still play in a dome for at least nine games next season and he won't play the Pittsburgh Steelers (or Cincy Bengals for that matter).

[Ravensfan23]

It's funny because these type of debates about Flacco and Ryan will go on for years, and it won't be settled until they are at least 10 years deep into their careers.

In a world where QB play is widely based on how QBs perform in big games and if they can win the big one, both Ryan and Flacco's sample size is way too small. Yes Flacco has had success in the playoffs, but you're only as good as your last performance, and in each of our playoff losses the last 3 years, Joe Cool hasn't been so cool. Ryan on the other hand just looked completely over whelmed in big games for the Falcons imo.

Because these sample sizes are so small, it's hard to find a fool proof method of comparing these 2 really good QBs. Some times the arguments and reasons why some will select one over the other are down right foolish. For example, the other day on NFL Total Access. during a topic that had nothing at all to do with the Ryan vs Flacco debate, Jamie Dukes took it upon himself to tell people why he prefers Ryan over Flacco. [url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81fc6121/Matty-Ice-on-the-rise"]Jamie Dukes[/url]

He says that's why he thinks Ryan is better then Flacco because of his anticipation. Ok that's cool, because Joe does hold the ball too long at times. However what is not mentioned is that Ryan's offense dictates he get the ball out at the top of his drop, often. Whereas the Ravens offense is an offense with more combo routes and such. So that's why Ryan gets the ball out a lot quicker, however that doesn't make him better. That would be equal to me saying, Flacco is better because he throws a the better deep ball.

That's more of a system debate then a Ryan vs Flacco debate. If Ryan was asked to hold the ball and allow routes to develop down field then he'd be percieved as a QB that holds the ball a tad bit too long(especailly when WR don't get open) and vice versa with Flacco.

However to say Joe doesn't anticipate routes is just not accurate. [color="#4B0082"][url="http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?n=21&ei=utf-8&fr=chr-greentree_ff&fr2=tab-web&tnr=20&p=Flacco+to+Heap&vid=677968871597&dt=1261900800&l=34&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fvideos%2Fthumbnail.aspx%3Fq%3D677968871597%26id%3D8b1ad511e4d0522a96e6e1eaad8eeab1%26bid%3DYEw13HyrywQjGA%26bn%3DThumb%26url%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.nfl.com%252fvideos%252fnfl-game-highlights%252f09000d5d81547a68%252fFlacco-to-Heap-30-yard-TD&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nfl.com%2Fvideos%2Fnfl-game-highlights%2F09000d5d81547a68%2FFlacco-to-Heap-30-yard-TD&******=Flacco+to+Heap+30-yard+TD&sigr=12o8b2irc&newfp=1"]Look at the throw to Heap[/url][/color]

You think back to the quick slant to Clayton that went for a TD in Flacco's rookie year. Also the Ravens have to throw more out routes across the field then anyone in the NFL, and that's all about timing and anticipation. So while this may not be the greatest thing Flacco does, he definitely does it as well as most. He just has to be more consistent.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='ravensorioleshoyas522155' timestamp='1305393487' post='686268']
Post this on a Falcons message board...They'll go nuts
[/quote]

That would actually be a really good idea, just to gauge their opinions on Flacco and the Ravens as a whole.

[Romo Ravens]

Personally I think both are equal. It just depends who you ask. It's funny though because people I talk to who don't like Atlanta or Baltimore say they would pick Flacco all day

[Ravensfan23]

As far as Flacco being superior in the Clutch, i can't say if he's superior to Ryan or not, but i do know that Flacco doesn't get nearly the amount of credit he deserves for coming up huge in big games. Has Flacco put up huge numbers in these must win games, not always, but he makes big timely plays when the team needs it.

In most cases, the team fails Flacco in these big games more so then Flacco failing the team.

I'm sitting here watching a lot of the Ravens highlights on NFL.com and I'm noticing just how huge Flacco comes up for the Ravens. On huge 3rd and longs he picks up the first down, or when the Ravens fall between by a score or two, Flacco responds with a huge TD to get the momentum back on the Ravens side. How often over the last 3 years have the Ravens trailed the Steelers by 2 scores in the second half, and Flacco rallied the team? People might just be surprised to know how often it happened. Now those games didn't always turn into wins, but Flacco gave the Ravens a great chance to win.

Here are few of the highlights in Joe's career so far where he's come up huge for the Ravens. When you watch these highlights don't pay as much attention to the acutally play, but take into account the point and time of the game. Like in the Divisional Playoff game in his rookie year. Our defense was getting gashed, and the Titans just scored. Flacco responds by leading his team down field and he makes a huge TD pass to Mason. Situations like that, you can't just measure with numbers and stats.

[color="#4B0082"][url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009011000/2008/POST19/ravens@titans#tab:watch"]2008 Divisional Playoff[/url][/color]

[color="#4B0082"][url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009112200/2009/REG11/colts@ravens#tab:watch"]2009 Week 11[/url][/color]

[color="#4B0082"][url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009112911/2009/REG12/steelers@ravens/watch#watch"]2009 week 12[/url][/color]

[url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009101803/2009/REG6/ravens@vikings#tab:watch"]2009 Week 6[/url]

[url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009122709/2009/REG16/ravens@steelers/watch#watch"]2009 week16[/url]

[url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010092604/2010/REG3/browns@ravens#tab:watch"]2010 Week 3[/url]

[url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011011500/2010/POST19/ravens@steelers#tab:watch"]2010 Divisional Playoffs[/url]

Now in these games I chose, Flacco didn't play prefect, some might even argue he didn't play well, however when the game was either on the line or in balance, Flacco made the plays he needed to make to put his team in position to tie or win the game. Unfortunately, his teammates didn't help him out much. That's the biggest difference between Flacco and Ryan imo. The pieces around Flacco hasn't come up as big in those big moments.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1305402062' post='686303']
It's funny because these type of debates about Flacco and Ryan will go on for years, and it won't be settled until they are at least 10 years deep into their careers.
[/quote]
I agree, but certainly if one of them leads their team to a SB (especially is they win), the debate should be over!

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1305413493' post='686337']
I agree, but certainly if one of them leads their team to a SB (especially is they win), the debate should be over!
[/quote]

Brady got 3 Super Bowl wins, and played in another with an undefeated team. Manning has one Super Bowl win, which was probably the worse playoff run by a super bowl winning QB, and he's played in another. Yet in most circles Manning is still considered the best QB in the NFL today.

I disagree as I'm sure many other do as well, so if that debate wasn't over with 1 Superbowl win, i highly doubt the Flacco vs Ryan debate will end with one Super Bowl. Especially if the first player to win a Super Bowl is Flacco.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1305415533' post='686344']
Brady got 3 Super Bowl wins, and played in another with an undefeated team. Manning has one Super Bowl win, which was probably the worse playoff run by a super bowl winning QB, and he's played in another. Yet in most circles Manning is still considered the best QB in the NFL today.

I disagree as I'm sure many other do as well, so if that debate wasn't over with 1 Superbowl win, i highly doubt the Flacco vs Ryan debate will end with one Super Bowl. Especially if the first player to win a Super Bowl is Flacco.
[/quote]
If Flacco wins the SB and Ryan continues to miss the playoffs or lose in round one, its a wrap!

[atljbo]

So the guy basically dude said he would take Matt Ryan over Flacco and you post that one paragraph.

This is the problem i have with this article... Its a 2 minute offense before half time and at the end of the game... The 2 minute offense before the half is not a CLUTCH moment.

Not making excuses... Its not good throwing ints before half time... But thats not a clutch moment... Matt Ryan 4th quarter TD/int ratio was 7 TD's to 3 ints (63.8%) .... Joe Flacco 4th quarter TD/int ratio was 4 TD's to 2 ints (63.2%)

IDK why but Matt Ryan worse quarter by far has been the 2nd quarter...

PFF (who breaks down every play) has had Matt Ryan rated as one of their highest clutch guys.


I do somewhat agree with the guy when he said that it depends on what you prefer.

I still dont get why some call Matt Ryan over-rated.. The guy that made this article picked Matt Ryan and he tried to take away one of Matt's strengths.

[Romo Ravens]

Matt Ryan is not overrated. He's just annoyingly overhyped

[atljbo]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1305435066' post='686451']
Matt Ryan is not overrated. He's just annoyingly overhyped
[/quote]

I dont think he is over hyped.. But i can get why Ravens fans would say that... I do think Flacco should get a lil more publicity.. The problem is... When you have 4 guys on Defense thats like consistent probowlers and 3 of those guys are top 2 at their position... Flacco gets over looked some

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1305428670' post='686425']
If Flacco wins the SB and Ryan continues to miss the playoffs or lose in round one, its a wrap!
[/quote]

If Flacco wins a Superbowl first, the debate might be a wrap from a fan standpoint(at least Baltimore) but not the media.

Brady had like 3 Superbowl wins in his first 4 years, it took Manning like 6 years to win his first playoff game, and the media still gets on their knees for Manning every chance they get.

Much like Peyton Manning, if Matt Ryan can put up big numbers with his 1st round weapons then regardless of what he does in the playoffs, there will still be a large amount of media members who will think he's the best. Doesn't make them right, but they'll definitely do it.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1305436190' post='686457']
I dont think he is over hyped.. But i can get why Ravens fans would say that... I do think Flacco should get a lil more publicity.. The problem is... When you have 4 guys on Defense thats like consistent probowlers and 3 of those guys are top 2 at their position... Flacco gets over looked some
[/quote]

Matt Ryan is definitely over-hyped. You're a huge Matt Ryan fan so you don't see it that way. Now I don't say that as a bad thing because every big named QB is over-hyped.

During the regular season last year, ESPN, NFL Network, and Inside the NFL used the word elite to describe Matt Ryan as a QB. Other then the Falcons Win-Loss record at home there was nothing even close to elite about Ryan last season.

Then once the playoffs starts and he doesn't look so hot, their saying he needs more help, or asking the questions of what he needs to do to become elite.

Calling a QB who has zero playoff wins elite is over-hyping imo. Is he a really good young QB with the potential to be great and one of the best in the NFL? Of course, but he's not elite

[flynismo]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1305436190' post='686457']<br />I dont think he is over hyped.. But i can get why Ravens fans would say that... I do think Flacco should get a lil more publicity.. The problem is... When you have 4 guys on Defense thats like consistent probowlers and 3 of those guys are top 2 at their position... Flacco gets over looked some<br />[/quote]


that's understandable, but the real gripe a lot of Ravens fans is the constant comparisons between Flacco/Ryan, and the inevitable "Ryan is better".

Anyone who claims either is better than the other is simply saying so out of bias or ignorance, because neither has yet to clearly pull ahead of the other.

I actually thought Ryan was going to be a bust in the NFL, and thought Flacco was hands down the best QB in the class (this was well before the draft -- I was actually getting real nervous when rumors swirled that the Ravens were supposedly interested in trading up for Ryan)..so maybe I'm also a bit biased myself...

[atljbo]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1305437124' post='686461']
Matt Ryan is definitely over-hyped. You're a huge Matt Ryan fan so you don't see it that way. Now I don't say that as a bad thing because every big named QB is over-hyped.

During the regular season last year, ESPN, NFL Network, and Inside the NFL used the word elite to describe Matt Ryan as a QB. Other then the Falcons Win-Loss record at home there was nothing even close to elite about Ryan last season.

Then once the playoffs starts and he doesn't look so hot, their saying he needs more help, or asking the questions of what he needs to do to become elite.

Calling a QB who has zero playoff wins elite is over-hyping imo. Is he a really good young QB with the potential to be great and one of the best in the NFL? Of course, but he's not elite
[/quote]


The guy plays for my team so yea.. I'm a fan.. but im not blinded by that... If a QB is better then him.. ill say it.. that doesnt take away what Ryan is... I must not be a Huge fan because i dont call Ryan elite.... Ive also heard guys on tv call Flacco elite also (on nfl network and espn) ... So that cant be a indicator that a guy is over hyped... Neither Flacco nor Ryan is elite as of now.


[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1305438999' post='686462']
that's understandable, but the real gripe a lot of Ravens fans is the constant comparisons between Flacco/Ryan, and the inevitable "Ryan is better".

Anyone who claims either is better than the other is simply saying so out of bias or ignorance, because neither has yet to clearly pull ahead of the other.

I actually thought Ryan was going to be a bust in the NFL, and thought Flacco was hands down the best QB in the class (this was well before the draft -- I was actually getting real nervous when rumors swirled that the Ravens were supposedly interested in trading up for Ryan)..so maybe I'm also a bit biased myself...
[/quote]

I listen to certain football talking heads on tv because some really look at film and break down qb's play by play.... They also say its not all about stats...

I cant lie... I wasnt for Ryan at first .... I wanted my team to draft Dorsey... What changed my mind about Ryan is when i got a chance to go back and look at his biggest games... Dude produced... even after getting blown up (O-Line sucked) ... Dude kept doing his thing..He had a int problem in college but like Cutler in college... Ryan was playing with scrubs... zero of his offensive weapons has been drafted or playing in the NFL.

But yea.. When i got a chance to go back and look at ryan games (a couple of days before the draft) ... That changed my mind... I liked Flacco also... I thought it was no way he would start day 1 tho.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1305440282' post='686463']
[b]The guy plays for my team so yea.. I'm a fan.. but im not blinded by that... If a QB is better then him.. ill say it.. that doesnt take away what Ryan is... I must not be a Huge fan because i dont call Ryan elite.... Ive also heard guys on tv call Flacco elite also (on nfl network and espn) ... So that cant be a indicator that a guy is over hyped... Neither Flacco nor Ryan is elite as of now.[/b]




I listen to certain football talking heads on tv because some really look at film and break down qb's play by play.... They also say its not all about stats...

I cant lie... I wasnt for Ryan at first .... I wanted my team to draft Dorsey... What changed my mind about Ryan is when i got a chance to go back and look at his biggest games... Dude produced... even after getting blown up (O-Line sucked) ... Dude kept doing his thing..He had a int problem in college but like Cutler in college... Ryan was playing with scrubs... zero of his offensive weapons has been drafted or playing in the NFL.

But yea.. When i got a chance to go back and look at ryan games (a couple of days before the draft) ... That changed my mind... I liked Flacco also... I thought it was no way he would start day 1 tho.
[/quote]

Again like I said, because Ryan is viewed as over-hyped (in my opinion) doesn't make it a knock against him. See that's where the fan in you comes out at, I mention something about Ryan, you view it in a negative light and immediately defend Ryan by saying Flacco is also over-hyped.Which is cool, but if anyone views Ryan or Flacco as elite right now they are over-hyping them. That playoff record of Flacco's gets over-hyped. So it goes both ways, the statement was just made that Ryan is over-hyped and I agree. That doesn't make Flacco better then him.

Some talking heads are really good at what they do, others are not. When it all boils down to it, their all just like us, people with opinions.

Fly I also thought that Flacco would be the overall best QB taken out of that draft and it was well before the draft. I had the opportunity to watch 5 of Flacco's college games, and even though they were against Delaware St, Towson, Navy, Southern Illinois, and App St, I came away extremely impressed and thought without a doubt he would be much better then the likes of Brohm, Woodson, and Henne. The Matt Ryan comparison was tough for me, because as a Florida State fan, I watched a lot of him and while i thought he was over-hyped at BC, he still was going to be a really good NFL QB.

The biggest thing that made me like Flacco more and more over Ryan as the draft got closer, was that Flacco was slightly more athletic then Ryan, despite being bigger. Also from the games i was able to watch of Flacco, he made much better decisions overall then Ryan did, although he played lesser talent.

Ultimately what made me thing that Flacco was going to be the best QB in that draft after about 5 years or so, was that coming out of college, I saw both Ryan's and Flacco's floor as about even, however I still saw so much potential for Flacco to get even better. Ryan imo was a guy that was as finished of a product coming out of college as you'd get. So I thought, what you see from Ryan now, it what you'd see for years, he'd just get more consistent. With Flacco, even though he's come into the NFL and had great success, I though then and still think now, that he'll continue to learn and develop at that QB position over a 4 year span, and then take off. Each year he's gotten better and better, so we'll see how it plays out.