Harbaugh's Dog House

[gilgamesh]

To add about players wanting to play for Rex: not as much as they want to play for money. That was the reason Scott and Leonard went to the Jets. It's also the reason four star-level players on the Jets held out last year. I don't think they would mind one bit if they had to go to another team, even if it is Rex-less, to get their money. The reason players stay on teams have more to do with Tannenbaums and Bisciottis than Rexes and Harbaughs.

[berad]

[quote name='gilgamesh' timestamp='1305258558' post='685871']
To add about players wanting to play for Rex: not as much as they want to play for money. That was the reason Scott and Leonard went to the Jets. It's also the reason four star-level players on the Jets held out last year. I don't think they would mind one bit if they had to go to another team, even if it is Rex-less, to get their money. The reason players stay on teams have more to do with Tannenbaums and Bisciottis than Rexes and Harbaughs.
[/quote]

Exactly. All about the money. That's why Darelle Revis held out for nearly the entire off-season even though Rex Ryan kissed his butt every chance he got. It's why Santonio Holmes has made comments about taking his services to the highest bidder.

[BloodRaven]

[url="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1178810/index.htm#ixzz1HRdlJ6p6"]Link[/url]

Yeah, turns out it's not all about money. Back in November most players said they would rather for Rex on the Jets than for the two teams that went to the Superbowl.

[berad]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1305261568' post='685879']
[url="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1178810/index.htm#ixzz1HRdlJ6p6"]Link[/url]

Yeah, turns out it's not all about money. Back in November most players said they would rather for Rex on the Jets than for the two teams that went to the Superbowl.
[/quote]

That's a hypothetical. Rex may be popular [i](according to 279 players)[/i] but, in practice, players will choose the cash over the coach, more often than not.

[BloodRaven]

That sounds hypothetical too, I've seen a lot of players choose an ideal situation over cash.

[gilgamesh]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1305261568' post='685879']
[url="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1178810/index.htm#ixzz1HRdlJ6p6"]Link[/url]

Yeah, turns out it's not all about money. Back in November most players said they would rather for Rex on the Jets than for the two teams that went to the Superbowl.
[/quote]
What does that have to do with my point of money>coach? Heck, I'd argue playing time>coach, but that's for another day. That poll implies all things being equal, i.e. [b]money[/b]. My point still stands. Coaching has much more of an effect in college where athletes don't get paid. Actions speak louder than words, and even Rex coached guys put money above team unity and Rex by holding out under contract.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='gilgamesh' timestamp='1305262874' post='685886']
What does that have to do with my point of money>coach? Heck, I'd argue playing time>coach, but that's for another day. That poll implies all things being equal, i.e. [b]money[/b]. My point still stands. Coaching has much more of an effect in college where athletes don't get paid. Actions speak louder than words, and even Rex coached guys put money above team unity and Rex by holding out under contract.
[/quote]

Well, it didn't have anything to do with anything you wrote because it wasn't directed at you.

I find it strange you would argue a point that somehow the poll "implies" equal money when we all know low tier teams generally have more cap room and have to offer more cash and/or incentives to entice free agents.

[flynismo]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1305263739' post='685891']<br />Well, it didn't have anything to do with anything you wrote because it wasn't directed at you. <br /><br />I find it strange you would argue a point that somehow the poll &quot;implies&quot; equal money when we all know low tier teams generally have more cap room and have to offer more cash and/or incentives to entice free agents.<br />[/quote]

i don't know that lower tier teams have any more cap room than other teams (hence the reason they suck in the first place -- they make bad investments in players), but your basic point still stands, which is that the lesser teams have to offer more to entice players to come aboard.

Anyway, this discussion is pretty pointless; every one is different...each player are at different stages in their career and have different priorites and goals.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1305107112' post='684982']
I don't like Harbaugh to be honest. I mean you can say what you want about Rex Ryan, but he treats his guys like equals and friends instead of underlings and employees and you see it when his guys are always batting for him wether it's on the field or in front of reporters. When our FA's can't wait to hit the open market the Jets FA's are begging to go back.

[b]If a prime CMac and Frank Walker were both on the team right now Harbaugh would start Walker and cut CMac.[/b]
[/quote]

The key to all of this is a prime CMac and Frank Walker. Neither guy was prime at the time of their release from the Ravens.

Rex Ryan had every opportunity to sign both CMac and Walker once they were released from the Ravens. However Rex didn't think they could help the Jets no more then the Ravens thought those 2 players could help them.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1305292680' post='685941']
The key to all of this is a prime CMac and Frank Walker. Neither guy was prime at the time of their release from the Ravens.

Rex Ryan had every opportunity to sign both CMac and Walker once they were released from the Ravens. However Rex didn't think they could help the Jets no more then the Ravens thought those 2 players could help them.
[/quote]

CMac age 30 swoll knee and all is better than any corner we had at the time, you can't tell me it had nothing to do with Harbaugh asserting himself. You wanna say he was over the hill? sure, but tell me what Samari Rolle wasn't in 09-10 when he was on the payroll despite being older and living with a neck brace. C'mon.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1305304065' post='685978']
CMac age 30 swoll knee and all is better than any corner we had at the time, you can't tell me it had nothing to do with Harbaugh asserting himself. You wanna say he was over the hill? sure, but tell me what Samari Rolle wasn't in 09-10 when he was on the payroll despite being older and living with a neck brace. C'mon.
[/quote]
CMac didnt even get a chance to play in the league in general after the 2 weeks he spent with the Saints. He was better than other corners in the league other than our own and no one signed him. Plus he was carrying a Willis McGahee like contract and wasnt even close to performing up to it. Obviously Ozzie saw the same things Harbaugh saw, its not like Harbaugh went to Ozzie and was like "hey cut CMac I dont want him even though hes our best corner".

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1305304065' post='685978']
CMac age 30 swoll knee and all is better than any corner we had at the time, you can't tell me it had nothing to do with Harbaugh asserting himself. You wanna say he was over the hill? sure, but tell me what Samari Rolle wasn't in 09-10 when he was on the payroll despite being older and living with a neck brace. C'mon.
[/quote]

Once he got back on the field, Rolle played better than McAlister did before the Dolphins game.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1305304065' post='685978']
CMac age 30 swoll knee and all is better than any corner we had at the time, you can't tell me it had nothing to do with Harbaugh asserting himself. You wanna say he was over the hill? sure, but tell me what Samari Rolle wasn't in 09-10 when he was on the payroll despite being older and living with a neck brace. C'mon.
[/quote]

So are you telling me that Harbs called around the NFL and said don't pick up this CMac guy, he's a problem? Because CMac didn't play for anyone after we cut him, not even the lovable Rex wanted him.

Big Contract+older age+injuries+poor production= any player getting cut, not just Cmac being in Harb's doghouse.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1305304065' post='685978']
CMac age 30 swoll knee and all is better than any corner we had at the time, you can't tell me it had nothing to do with Harbaugh asserting himself. You wanna say he was over the hill? sure, but tell me what Samari Rolle wasn't in 09-10 when he was on the payroll despite being older and living with a neck brace. C'mon.
[/quote]
Didn't CMac fail a few physicals before finally getting picked up by the Saints to then only be cut, again???

[BloodRaven]

Yeah at least CMac played again, Rolle went straight to the glue factory.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1305331791' post='686132']
Yeah at least CMac played again, Rolle went straight to the glue factory.
[/quote]

What does that have to do with anything? The bottomline was CMac got released because of injury and his poor behavior.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1305341649' post='686168']
What does that have to do with anything? The bottomline was CMac got released because of injury and his poor behavior.
[/quote]

Lol, do you expect me to believe that Samari Rolle can sit through an entire season with a career ending neck injury and CMac was released because of knee inflammation?

Like I said before I find it weird that CMac suddenly has "poor behaviour" when a new coach turns up, I don't remember anyone putting him on blast in the 8 seasons prior. I mean Albert Haynesworth also has "poor behaviour" but his elite status hasn't stopped his entire team from speaking out.

[mgridda]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1305350289' post='686195']
Lol, do you expect me to believe that Samari Rolle can sit through an entire season with a career ending neck injury and CMac was released because of knee inflammation?

Like I said before I find it weird that CMac suddenly has "poor behaviour" when a new coach turns up, I don't remember anyone putting him on blast in the 8 seasons prior. I mean Albert Haynesworth also has "poor behaviour" but his elite status hasn't stopped his entire team from speaking out.
[/quote]

Look up our 31 - 3 loss to the Indianapolis Colts in 2007 (or was it 08???)

That's why C-Mac got cut. That was the last game he started. And it was probably the most a cornerback with a Ravens uniform ever got burnt in the history of the Ravens (a short history, to his credit).

C-Mac was a star, but he burned bright and fast.

[BloodRaven]

I guess not everyone can cover like Frank Walker and Fabian Washington.

[Moderator 3]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1305350289' post='686195']

Like I said before I find it weird that CMac suddenly has "poor behaviour" when a new coach turns up, I don't remember anyone putting him on blast in the 8 seasons prior. I mean Albert Haynesworth also has "poor behaviour" but his elite status hasn't stopped his entire team from speaking out.
[/quote]


You don't remember Chris being sent home from San Diego and being benched in Miami? Both were for disciplinary reasons.

[BloodRaven]

So are "disciplinary reasons" in the early Harbaugh era the exception or the rule when it comes to Chris McAlister?

[Purple Punishment]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1305356671' post='686200']
Look up our 31 - 3 loss to the Indianapolis Colts in 2007 (or was it 08???)

That's why C-Mac got cut. That was the last game he started. And it was probably the most a cornerback with a Ravens uniform ever got burnt in the history of the Ravens (a short history, to his credit).

C-Mac was a star, but he burned bright and fast.
[/quote]

By Marvin Harrison, a guy that burn many many CBs with Peyton Manning

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' timestamp='1305393106' post='686264']
By Marvin Harrison, a guy that burn many many CBs with Peyton Manning
[/quote]
The Colts cut Marvin Harrison after that season because he was 37 years old and could barely run anymore...

[1/28/01]

Again, CMac was cut by the Saints and didn't pass physicals by numerous other teams.....I don't really see where the argument is. Its a pointless back and forth as its evident as to why he was cut (by us, the Saints and others in the form of not passing a HEALTH physical).

[-Truth-]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1305356671' post='686200']
Look up our 31 - 3 loss to the Indianapolis Colts in 2007 (or was it 08???)

That's why C-Mac got cut. That was the last game he started. [b]And it was probably the most a cornerback with a Ravens uniform ever got burnt in the history of the Ravens (a short history, to his credit).
[/b]
C-Mac was a star, but he burned bright and fast.
[/quote]
Not so sure about that. I'd vote for Fabian Washington's performance against the Bills for the leading spot. According to PFF, Fabian allowed all eight targets to become receptions, for 164 yards and 3 TDs.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1305350289' post='686195']
Lol, do you expect me to believe that Samari Rolle can sit through an entire season with a career ending neck injury and CMac was released because of knee inflammation?

Like I said before I find it weird that CMac suddenly has "poor behaviour" when a new coach turns up, I don't remember anyone putting him on blast in the 8 seasons prior. I mean Albert Haynesworth also has "poor behaviour" but his elite status hasn't stopped his entire team from speaking out.
[/quote]

You hardly hard about poor behavior or issues with McAlister, because Billick didn't discipline players often. He allowed the players to really police themselves.

Harbaugh was mainly brought in because he's the exact opposite in that fashion. The Ravens and Mr. B wanted a culture change with the team. The reports of the Ravens lacking discipline as a team isn't what MR. B, and change was needed.

That's one of the biggest reasons Harbaugh was hired over Rex. It wasn't because the Ravens didn't like Rex as a coach, or didn't think he would be a hellva Head Coach. No it was because, Rex in style was much like Billick when it comes to how he handles the locker room. Example: Allowing players to eat cheeseburgers on field before practice. Now does this mean that this style of handling players is bad? No not at all, it was just the style that the Ravens didn't want.

In comes Harbaugh and things change. CMac was a part of the Ravens for almost a full decade before Harbs came along and he was used to doing things one way, the Billick way. So when Harbs came in and demanded more from his players in Training Camp, he demanded that all of his players stay at the Best Western hotel, instead of allowing Vets to go home to their families at night like Billick did, It was hard for some players to handle that change.

Cmac was one of those players that didn't handle the change well. Many people local and nationally thought that Harbs would struggle in his first 2 seasons, just to figure out how to handle this veteran based team being a rookie coach. However after training camp and the way Harbs handle the unexpected bye week, the players really rallied around Harbs.

Has Harbs made some mistakes over the past 3 years as a first time Head Coach? Yes. But imo the CMac situation wasn't one of them. When you're looking to change a culture, and you have the full support of the big decision makers like Mr. B, sometimes tough choices have to be made. At the point of his release, CMac had played in like 12 games over a 2 year span, both seasons ended on the IR, he was clearly rebellious against the new direction of the team, and his contract would have paid him more then what he was worth at the time. All of that together lead to his release.