Harbaugh's Dog House

[Bullrush]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1305135641' post='685118']
I didn't blame it all on the DBs. I said I'd guess they were responsible for most of them. I could be wrong. Yes, the o-line drew their fare share of flags as well. Why is that? Mostly because they were over-matched at times.

When Gaither was healthy, he played.

Barnes found his way back on the field in '09. So did Willis in '08.

Between injuries and a lack of consistency, what did Demetrius do to deserve more playing time?

When was Le'Ron in the doghouse?

McAlister challenged his authority. Was Harbaugh supposed to roll over?

Ellerbe got back on the field.

Fabian was a a liability in every way.
[/quote]
Gaither played because he's a Pro Bowl talent not because he changed anything he did wrong before.

Barnes was active when he was healthy, that's not the problem. The problem is that he didn't get the playing time a guy with his skills should have been getting in terms of going after the QB.

McGahee is still in his dog house. He keeps complaining about playing time, although at a certain point last season he just didn't care anymore and claimed that it's not about him and he just wants to be successful. Hah. Right.

Demetrius was great in practice. He couldn't get out of John's doghouse because he kept getting hurt. And what did McKnight and Wilson do to deserve more playing time?

LeRon = See McGahee.

McAlister has always been like that.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1305137396' post='685126']
Gaither played because he's a Pro Bowl talent not because he changed anything he did wrong before.

Barnes was active when he was healthy, that's not the problem. The problem is that he didn't get the playing time a guy with his skills should have been getting in terms of going after the QB.

McGahee is still in his dog house. He keeps complaining about playing time, although at a certain point last season he just didn't care anymore and claimed that it's not about him and he just wants to be successful. Hah. Right.

Demetrius was great in practice. He couldn't get out of John's doghouse because he kept getting hurt. And what did McKnight and Wilson do to deserve more playing time?

LeRon = See McGahee.

McAlister has always been like that.
[/quote]
Rice is better than McGahee so why would Harbaugh take the ball out arguably our biggest playmaker. In 08 McGahee showed up to training camp out of shape because he didnt rehab his knee surgery, what coach in their right mind gives the starting role to a guy who does that.

Demetrius was a piece and always hurt, there was no reason to play him, and he couldn't beat out Massaqoui/Robiskie in Cleveland that tells you everything you need to know.

You seem real bent out of shape about Barnes like we let go a guy who was going to get 8+ sacks in a situational role. The Eagles thought he was useless for them as well. 2 teams that had him on their roster thought he was expendable, I dont know how else to put it. Even Rex barely used him and Rex basically had free reigns with who he wanted to use on defense in 08.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1305137396' post='685126']
Gaither played because he's a Pro Bowl talent not because he changed anything he did wrong before.

Barnes was active when he was healthy, that's not the problem. The problem is that he didn't get the playing time a guy with his skills should have been getting in terms of going after the QB.

McGahee is still in his dog house. He keeps complaining about playing time, although at a certain point last season he just didn't care anymore and claimed that it's not about him and he just wants to be successful. Hah. Right.

Demetrius was great in practice. He couldn't get out of John's doghouse because he kept getting hurt. And what did McKnight and Wilson do to deserve more playing time?

LeRon = See McGahee.

McAlister has always been like that.
[/quote]

But the fact remains that Gaither played in '09 and more than likely would have started last season had he been healthy. So whether he was stuck in the doghouse or not is irrelevant because he was never benched.

Didn't Barnes have any responsibility for his lack of playing time? If he actually took special teams seriously and didn't get full of himself, don't you think PT on defense would've been easier to come by?

I didn't like how little McGahee was used last season but to me, that was more on poor offensive game-planning, not him being in the dog house. We know Willis and Harbaugh clashed in '08 but I didn't read about that happening last season.

Where are you getting that from regarding Demetrius? Injury-prone players likely frustrate coaches but I've never heard of one landing in the doghouse because he couldn't stay healthy.

You're ducking my point about Wilson and McKnight. Both players were notably in Rex's doghouse. You claimed he doesn't have one.

Again, when was McClain in the doghouse? He wanted more touches but he was never benched nor criticized by Harbaugh.

As for McAlister, your point is? Harbaugh, a new coach, coming into a locker room with many strong personalities wasn't going to allow a player to get out of line the way C-Mac supposedly did. And as much as people clamored for McAlister's return, ultimately, the D has been moved on relatively well.

[ravenswoman]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1305139735' post='685143']
As for McAlister, your point is? Harbaugh, a new coach, coming into a locker room with many strong personalities wasn't going to allow a player to get [b]out of line the way C-Mac supposedly did[/b]. And as much as people clamored for McAlister's return, ultimately, the D has been moved on relatively well.
[/quote]
Just a note about the "supposedly did" you can read about him in the "Next Man Up" book. In the book he realized he needed to change and Tod Heap was willing to help. In later years he reverted back to his old ways.

[Ravenslifer]

I'm sure every coach in the league has some sort of doghouse. Why would you play a guy who doesn't listen to what you say and isn't willing to work hard? The Steelers went so far as to part ways with Santonio Holmes, their best receiver, because of off the field/ behavioral issues. And let's look at the guys we're talking about. C-Mac, Barnes, Ellerbe, some say Gaither, and MgGahee. The only one who was a full time starer was Gaither, and the only reason he didn't start last year was his injury. None of these guys was a real game changer by the time Harbs got here - MgGahee and C-Mac were past their prime (plus had guys playing in front of them), and nobody else really proved much. No matter how poor a player's attitude is, I can't see any situation in which Harbs would deliberately keep the better player on the sidelines because of work ethic issues. It makes no sense, is detrimental to the team, and I don't see the rest of the front office being on board with it. In my mind, the best, most prepared players were the ones on the field the majority of the time. Maybe Harbs took it a bit too far, but then again we really have no idea how much was Harbs decision and how much was the other coordinators wanting the best guys on the field. In Ellerbe's case, he did play in 11 games in 2010, though he only started once, so I think it was more that they didn't think he would do as good a job as the other guys.

[Bullrush]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1305139735' post='685143']
But the fact remains that Gaither played in '09 and more than likely would have started last season had he been healthy. So whether he was stuck in the doghouse or not is irrelevant because he was never benched.

Didn't Barnes have any responsibility for his lack of playing time? If he actually took special teams seriously and didn't get full of himself, don't you think PT on defense would've been easier to come by?

I didn't like how little McGahee was used last season but to me, that was more on poor offensive game-planning, not him being in the dog house. We know Willis and Harbaugh clashed in '08 but I didn't read about that happening last season.

Where are you getting that from regarding Demetrius? Injury-prone players likely frustrate coaches but I've never heard of one landing in the doghouse because he couldn't stay healthy.

You're ducking my point about Wilson and McKnight. Both players were notably in Rex's doghouse. You claimed he doesn't have one.

Again, when was McClain in the doghouse? He wanted more touches but he was never benched nor criticized by Harbaugh.

As for McAlister, your point is? Harbaugh, a new coach, coming into a locker room with many strong personalities wasn't going to allow a player to get out of line the way C-Mac supposedly did. And as much as people clamored for McAlister's return, ultimately, the D has been moved on relatively well.
[/quote]
I already explained twice now that when somebody just plain sucks and is not playing well, you pull him. That has nothing to do with doghouse or whatnot. You'd have to be the dumbest headcoach in the league to not pull a young rookie who hasn't proven himself yet when he keeps making mistakes over and over again and is clearly not ready to play at the pro level. That was the case with Wilson and McKnight. Rex pulls guys that are not performing.

My point with McAlister is that he has always been like that. Nobody got rid of him or made a big fuss about it. Billick knew how to handle him, he always knew how to deal with players who have some personal issues, whether it's alcohol related or whatever the case may be. Rex would have handled it the same way. John doesn't. When he heard about it C-Mac was a goner. Of course it didn't help that C-Mac wasn't in his prime by that time, but John would have done the same in 2003 when C-Mac was shutting everyone down. He was way worse to deal with in his prime and John would have figured out a way to get rid of him. He does the same with Gaither now. Rex doesn't do that. Brian didn't do that. That's the difference between a guy like Mangini and Harbaugh compared to the Rex Ryan's out there and the Tony Dungy's.

As for the rest I don't want to go back and forth with you the rest of the week now.

[berad]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1305149679' post='685235']
I already explained twice now that when somebody just plain sucks and is not playing well, you pull him. That has nothing to do with doghouse or whatnot. You'd have to be the dumbest headcoach in the league to not pull a young rookie who hasn't proven himself yet when he keeps making mistakes over and over again and is clearly not ready to play at the pro level. That was the case with Wilson and McKnight. Rex pulls guys that are not performing.[/quote]

Haha, you could apply that same exact statement to Harbaugh with Barnes, Washington, and Williams. They didn't play because they weren't better performers than the guys in front of them. Not by a long shot.

And Rex has a doghouse. He admits it himself. In his book, he says this about Kerry Rhodes...

[quote]
"He was a selfish-[i]<something>[/i] guy," Ryan wrote in his new book, according to ESPN.com's Rich Cimini. "He wouldn't work and he was a Hollywood type."[/quote]

Ryan traded Rhodes to the Cardinals after '09 despite Rhodes being a better playmaker than any safety the Jets have now. He also said this about both Chris Baker and Eric Barton.

[quote]
“they were negative guys”[/quote]

and

[quote]“never respected the guys they played with.”[/quote]

He goes on to say that the Jets didn't re-sign those players because of that. Of course the players refuted each of these claims. Barton and Baker never even played under or met with Rex Ryan.

Rex Ryan has a doghouse. He airs his laundry, along with other things, very publicly.

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1305149679' post='685235']
My point with McAlister is that he has always been like that. Nobody got rid of him or made a big fuss about it. Billick knew how to handle him, he always knew how to deal with players who have some personal issues, whether it's alcohol related or whatever the case may be. Rex would have handled it the same way. John doesn't. When he heard about it C-Mac was a goner. Of course it didn't help that C-Mac wasn't in his prime by that time, but John would have done the same in 2003 when C-Mac was shutting everyone down. He was way worse to deal with in his prime and John would have figured out a way to get rid of him. He does the same with Gaither now. Rex doesn't do that. Brian didn't do that. That's the difference between a guy like Mangini and Harbaugh compared to the Rex Ryan's out there and the Tony Dungy's.
[/quote]

Rex was the DC in 2008, so apparently he didn't "handle" it very well. McAlister supposedly had a nagging knee injury and had just been torched tremendously in the Colts game, those were probably bigger factors in him being benched and released than his poor attitude. And, judging by McAlister's play after he left the Ravens, we weren't missing out on anything...

And who has Ryan rehabilitated? I'm just looking for a name. He's harbored a lot of troubled players with the Jets but some of them have still had run-ins with the law and some of them are rumored to be on their way out, with their 1-2 year deals.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1305149679' post='685235']
I already explained twice now that when somebody just plain sucks and is not playing well, you pull him. That has nothing to do with doghouse or whatnot. You'd have to be the dumbest headcoach in the league to not pull a young rookie who hasn't proven himself yet when he keeps making mistakes over and over again and is clearly not ready to play at the pro level. That was the case with Wilson and McKnight. Rex pulls guys that are not performing.

My point with McAlister is that he has always been like that. Nobody got rid of him or made a big fuss about it. Billick knew how to handle him, he always knew how to deal with players who have some personal issues, whether it's alcohol related or whatever the case may be. Rex would have handled it the same way. John doesn't. When he heard about it C-Mac was a goner. Of course it didn't help that C-Mac wasn't in his prime by that time, but John would have done the same in 2003 when C-Mac was shutting everyone down. He was way worse to deal with in his prime and John would have figured out a way to get rid of him. He does the same with Gaither now. Rex doesn't do that. Brian didn't do that. That's the difference between a guy like Mangini and Harbaugh compared to the Rex Ryan's out there and the Tony Dungy's.

As for the rest I don't want to go back and forth with you the rest of the week now.
[/quote]

No one has denied unproductive players should be benched. My point is that saying Rex doesn't have a doghouse but calling out Harbaugh for benching some players that hurt the team and criticizing him for having a doghouse is ludicrous, especially when the Jets GM himself said McKnight got in and escaped the doghouse.

There are a whole bunch of assumptions in your second paragraph and debating hem with no facts would be fruitless. Based on the rumors though, I don't think many coaches would have stood for what C-Mac supposedly did before the Colts and Dolphins games.

Regarding Gaither, I don't know exactly how Harbaugh is trying to get rid of him but I'm not looking to drag this debate out either.

[RavensAllTheWay]

I like Harbs, but I really believe Ozzie rushed this contract extension in too early. There were numerous reports about how he and the players had a huge fuss about practice time the week before our playoff game with Pittsburgh. And honestly, just from what I've seen on the field, I haven't seen him really open up to the players and build strong inner relationships with anyone of the players. At the end of last season, I just got the sense that there is little chemistry because we are, get this, too business-like.

I never remember seeing Harbs laugh or joke with any players at practice or during pre game. In that regard, his style as a HC is noticeably different from the likes of Sean Payton, Rex, Tomlin, Andy Reid and others.

[mgridda]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1305107112' post='684982']
I don't like Harbaugh to be honest. I mean you can say what you want about Rex Ryan, but he treats his guys like equals and friends instead of underlings and employees and you see it when his guys are always batting for him wether it's on the field or in front of reporters. When our FA's can't wait to hit the open market the Jets FA's are begging to go back.

If a prime CMac and Frank Walker were both on the team right now Harbaugh would start Walker and cut CMac.
[/quote]

I doubt that. Did you see Chris McAlister against the Colts the year he was cut? Dude got burned like 7 times. That 31 - 3 loss? He never started after that and that's why he was cut. For on field performances that probably had to do with his:

1) Health
2) Work Ethic
3) Off field distractions affecting both the above

I don't think anyone has ever gotten roasted like that with a Ravens uniform on before.

Anyway, I'd rather have Harbaugh than Rex Ryan simply because of the penalties with Ryan and the penalties with Harbs. Does anyone have the official statistics on that? Penalties on defense in 2009 or 2008 and penalties on defense in 2010?

[Corvus]

Didn't know so many people disliked a guy who in his first and only (so far) 3 years as a head coach has made our team into a constant contender with a well above .500 winning percentage in 48 regular season games. There's no handbook for being a NFL head coach. Harbaugh is learning as he goes and with what he has done with this team so far, future's bright man, future's bright..

[-Truth-]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1305151060' post='685249']
Ryan traded Rhodes to the Cardinals after '09 despite Rhodes being a better playmaker than any safety the Jets have now. He also said this about both Chris Baker and Eric Barton.
[/quote]
Great point about Rhodes. I remember when he was demoted, recorded 2 INTs against the Panthers in a limited role, and still wasn't named as the starter until the week after. Rhodes went on to have an impressive Season with the Cardinals, so it certainly wasn't as if he was inept on the field. I wonder if Rex was spoiled after having the pleasure of watching one of the best ever do it in Baltimore.

[berad]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1305154500' post='685282']
Great point about Rhodes. I remember when he was demoted, recorded 2 INTs against the Panthers in a limited role, and still wasn't named as the starter until the week after. Rhodes went on to have an impressive Season with the Cardinals, so it certainly wasn't as if he was inept on the field. I wonder if Rex was spoiled after having the pleasure of watching one of the best ever do it in Baltimore.
[/quote]

Yeah, that's possible. Can't speak for Rhodes as a person but he's Ed Reed-lite, on the field... a very watered-down version. Ed does it with hard work and not too much flash - in terms of celebration and desire for celebrity.

My point was just that Ryan definitely has a doghouse. Every coach does. A doghouse, a [i]<poo>[/i]-list, etc. is inevitable when you're in a business where huge egos/personalities, millions of dollars, and the fight for job security clash every week.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1305153826' post='685275']
I like Harbs, but I really believe Ozzie rushed this contract extension in too early. There were numerous reports about how he and the players had a huge fuss about practice time the week before our playoff game with Pittsburgh. And honestly, just from what I've seen on the field, I haven't seen him really open up to the players and build strong inner relationships with anyone of the players. At the end of last season, I just got the sense that there is little chemistry because we are, get this, too business-like.

I never remember seeing Harbs laugh or joke with any players at practice or during pre game. In that regard, his style as a HC is noticeably different from the likes of Sean Payton, Rex, Tomlin, Andy Reid and others.
[/quote]

Wasn't that report about play-off practices publicly refuted by some players on the team? I'm not trying to dismiss it but I don't think we've gotten names of any of the players that complained.

To your point about Harbaugh not bonding, joking or laughing with players, does this count?

[img]http://www.masnsports.com/dan_kolko/Harbaugh-Oregon-Tshirt.jpg[/img]

Seriously, just because you haven't heard or read stories doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1305155089' post='685288']
Yeah, that's possible. Can't speak for Rhodes as a person but he's Ed Reed-lite, on the field... a very watered-down version. Ed does it with hard work and not too much flash - in terms of celebration and desire for celebrity.

My point was just that Ryan definitely has a doghouse. Every coach does. A doghouse, a [i]<poo>[/i]-list, etc. is inevitable when you're in a business where huge egos/personalities, millions of dollars, and the fight for job security clash every week.
[/quote]
I agree. It is inevitable, even for players coaches like Ryan.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1305155094' post='685289']
Wasn't that report about play-off practices publicly refuted by some players on the team? I'm not trying to dismiss it but I don't think we've gotten names of any of the players that complained.

To your point about Harbaugh not bonding, joking or laughing with players, does this count?

[img]http://www.masnsports.com/dan_kolko/Harbaugh-Oregon-Tshirt.jpg[/img]

Seriously, just because you haven't heard or read stories doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
[/quote]
I never said it [i]doesn't[/i] happen. I even acknowledged that what I know about the team comes mainly from the field and on gameday. And how do you know that the person who refuted the report wasn't just trying to cover up against the many other contradictary reports?

Honestly, that's one of the very few things I've seen from Harbaugh that could be considered joking or whatever. But I'm comparing him to those other guys I mentioned before. I see them letting loose on the sidelines or on the field before kickoff, but I haven't from Harbs. That's the difference.

[berad]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1305156577' post='685303']
I never said it [i]doesn't[/i] happen. I even acknowledged that what I know about the team comes mainly from the field and on gameday. [b] And how do you know that the person who refuted the report wasn't just trying to cover up against the many other contradictary reports?[/b]
[/quote]

That was debunked a long time ago. Chris Carr, Haloti Ngata, Ozzie Newsome, and Donte Stallworth all spoke out against it. I'd trust them over Mike Preston.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1305157147' post='685306']
That was debunked a long time ago. Chris Carr, Haloti Ngata, Ozzie Newsome, and Donte Stallworth all spoke out against it. I'd trust them over Mike Preston.
[/quote]
I don't remember that many people speaking out against it. I guess they did.

[RavensAllTheWay]

However, one thing I do remember about the week before that game was Carr getting a minor injury of some sort and Harbs getting some heat because he apparently made the players hit in practice leading up to that physical showdown.

[berad]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1305157224' post='685307']
I don't remember that many people speaking out against it. I guess they did.
[/quote]

[color="#800080"][url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/07/ravens-dispute-claim-of-increased-practice-length-during-playoffs/"]Ravens dispute claim of increased practice length during playoffs[/url][/color]

And this [color="#800080"][url="https://twitter.com/#!/DonteStallworth/status/35035351978348544"]tweet by Donte Stallworth[/url][/color]:

[quote]
Reports that Harbaugh put us through hard practices late in year/post season are utterly erroneous! EVERY player will attest to that #Ravens[/quote]

[RavensAllTheWay]

I did not hear any of these things

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1305156577' post='685303']
I never said it [i]doesn't[/i] happen. I even acknowledged that what I know about the team comes mainly from the field and on gameday. And how do you know that the person who refuted the report wasn't just trying to cover up against the many other contradictary reports?

[b]Honestly, that's one of the very few things I've seen from Harbaugh that could be considered joking or whatever. But I'm comparing him to those other guys I mentioned before. I see them letting loose on the sidelines or on the field before kickoff, but I haven't from Harbs. That's the difference.[/b]
[/quote]

To me, not seeing him "let loose" before games is trivial. I don't think it's too outlandish to believe he jokes with players as they stretch pre-game but at the end of the day, how he coaches up his players, handles timeouts(something he needs to work on) and other issues are more important than how loose he is.

[berad]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1305158566' post='685318']
I did not hear any of these things
[/quote]

Don't know what to tell you... they were reported...

[63bru]

Would Ellerbe really have made the difference between losing to the Steelers in the second round and making it to the super bowl? No, of course not. Other teams might let their guys run around the field like it's a broadway production, but not the Ravens. On the field, the best teams are the ones that are disciplined, focused, and intense. The best teams are teams like the Steelers, the Packers, and the Patriots, all no-nonsense programs. If a player lacks the required discipline, he shouldn't play until he acquires it. Harbs is doing a great job of demanding respect and keeping the team disciplined. No one is in Harbs' dog house that hasn't earned his way there. Don't worry about the players though. I'm pretty sure they enjoy playing for the Ravens, even if there isn't too much joking from Harbs on game day.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1305107112' post='684982']
I don't like Harbaugh to be honest. I mean you can say what you want about Rex Ryan, but he treats his guys like equals and friends instead of underlings and employees and you see it when his guys are always batting for him wether it's on the field or in front of reporters. When our FA's can't wait to hit the open market the Jets FA's are begging to go back.

If a prime CMac and Frank Walker were both on the team right now Harbaugh would start Walker and cut CMac.
[/quote]
I can respect that you may not like Harbaugh and I'm fine with that, he certainly isn't without faults as a coach but I think you also have to realize why he was brought in. Biscotti wanted specifically a coach like Harbaugh to reinstIll discipline in the team after the Ravens had deteriorated into basically a loony bin in 2007. Biscotti could also not hire Rex because Rex FAILED his interview, Bisciotti asked him point blank if he had done anything to prevent the defense vs offense rift and if he had done anything to undermine Billicks authority, Rex being Rex answered truthfully and was not hired because of it. Biscotti isn't stupid, he knows what Rex brings to a team and a defense specifically he didn't hire him strictly because of the "continuity" factor scaring him.

also I find it hard to believe in your heart you actually think Harbaugh would start Frank Walker over CMac in his prime.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1305158752' post='685320']
To me, not seeing him "let loose" before games is trivial. I don't think it's too outlandish to believe he jokes with players as they stretch pre-game but at the end of the day, [b]how he coaches up his players, handles timeouts(something he needs to work on) and other issues are more important than how loose he is.[/b][/quote]
Absolutely. I'm just trying to expand a little bit.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1305167795' post='685394']
I can respect that you may not like Harbaugh and I'm fine with that, he certainly isn't without faults as a coach but I think you also have to realize why he was brought in. Biscotti wanted specifically a coach like Harbaugh to reinstIll discipline in the team after the Ravens had deteriorated into basically a loony bin in 2007. Biscotti could also not hire Rex because Rex FAILED his interview, Bisciotti asked him point blank if he had done anything to prevent the defense vs offense rift and if he had done anything to undermine Billicks authority, Rex being Rex answered truthfully and was not hired because of it. Biscotti isn't stupid, he knows what Rex brings to a team and a defense specifically he didn't hire him strictly because of the "continuity" factor scaring him.

also I find it hard to believe in your heart you actually think Harbaugh would start Frank Walker over CMac in his prime.
[/quote]

I can understand instilling discipline, but it get's to the point where another rift is forming as there is a disconnect between Harbaugh and his players. The Jets are an example that you don't need the fun police to have a winning record, again, why do you think our guys want to go over there and play for him?

[Romo Ravens]

If Ryan was hired in 2008, do you guys think we would have drafted Flacco that year, or went defense and signed an older QB?

[berad]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1305177997' post='685464']
I can understand instilling discipline, but it get's to the point where another rift is forming as there is a disconnect between Harbaugh and his players. The Jets are an example that you don't need the fun police to have a winning record, again, why do you think our guys want to go over there and play for him?
[/quote]

I don't think any player left the Ravens for the Jets for any reason except money. Pryce may say he jumped at the opportunity to play with Rex but he was looking for a job, he knew his return to the Ravens would probably be unlikely.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1305178841' post='685467']
If Ryan was hired in 2008, do you guys think we would have drafted Flacco that year, or went defense and signed an older QB?
[/quote]


The front office makes personnel decisions. Sure, coaches have input, and I'm sure that Rex would have had his opinions, but at the end of the day, it was the front office who ranked the players on their board, and it was the front office who believed Joe was at least the 18th best player in the draft that year.