Joe Flacco #90 On Top 100

[Guest deltaraven]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1304901889' post='683874']
Who cares? We all know by now that Joe could go on the road next year, win three playoff games, and get us to the Superbowl, win it, and they'd still put Matt Ryan and Josh Freeman ahead of him. What will be really interesting to me is if they put Mark Sanchez on the list ahead of Flacco and then say it's because he "led" his team to two AFC Championship Games,
[/quote]
The ones that amaze me are Mark Sanchez and Drew Brees -Sanchez way overated-Brees is well above average but we really beat up on him last year so did Seattle-the bias is unreal-especially Saints-Jets

[-Truth-]

[quote name='deltaraven' timestamp='1304950530' post='684075']
The ones that amaze me are Mark Sanchez and Drew Brees -Sanchez way overated-Brees is well above average but we really beat up on him last year so did Seattle-the bias is unreal-especially Saints-Jets
[/quote]
Seattle beat up on Drew Brees? He threw for 404 yards, with 2 TDs and 0 INTs. Their Offense put up 36 points. How is Brees at fault for the loss? And against us, he accounted for 267 passing yards, with 3 TDs and 1 INT. Granted that one of the TDs was a fluke, but then again, the last INT was a result of a deflection. The Saints defense was manhandled by Ray Rice and our OL, as well as Matt Hasselbeck and Marshawn Lynch. Brees leads his offense to 60 points in 2 combined games, 671 passing yards, 5 TDs with 1 INT and a percentage completion of over 64...yet he was beaten up on. Yes, he did have a turnover plagued Season, but I still wouldn't call him overrated.

[Raven Butcher]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1304949308' post='684069']
He had 4 more INTs than Freeman but he had a higher completion percentage, smidge higher yds per completion, more passing yardage, same TDs, and did all of that with a weaker O line - being sacked 15 more times than Freeman. The additional INTs bring his QB rating a hair lower than Freeman's.
[/quote]

Ravens have weaker O-line because of the number of sacks Flacco has taken? [i]<deleted>[/i] Buccaneers O-line is one of the worst in the league, Donald Penn is a decent starter at LT and that is it. Heck Buccaneers even fired their O-line coach for how bad they performed last season.

As far as taking sacks goes, I have addressed it earlier in this thread. If you looked at what John Abraham had to say about Freeman who was ranked at #86, you would understand what is the most special feature about Freeman's QB'ing, avoiding sacks with strength or elusiveness.

[atljbo]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1304937093' post='684038']
I think the point was that Freeman is #86. Based on your logic why would Freeman make the list at all? Or Ryan who's team made the playoffs and he has yet to win a playoff game?

So bogus.
[/quote]


They talked to Josh Cribbs... He said the players vote for the players that gives Coordinators/teams some fear or the biggest headache game planing for.

I'm not taking anything from Flacco... But ppl will always see the ravens as a Defensive team... Flacco can have a bad game (has had bad games in the playoffs) and the ravens can win... Vs KC besides one great run from Charles... Their Offense did nothing.

I just dont feel like you can base everything on that... If so.... You have to feel like you would Take Eli over Flacco and Ryan....

I would take Flacco and Ryan over Eli...

[theFRANCHISE]

If everyone's up in arms about Flacco getting slighted by his peers -- don't be. Flacco's always responded to criticism by performing. Always.

If players around the league are slighting Joe now, wait and see how they feel after he throws touchdowns over their heads.

[atljbo]

[quote name='Raven Butcher' timestamp='1304958347' post='684107']
Ravens have weaker O-line because of the number of sacks Flacco has taken? [i]<deleted>[/i] Buccaneers O-line is one of the worst in the league, Donald Penn is a decent starter at LT and that is it. Heck Buccaneers even fired their O-line coach for how bad they performed last season.

As far as taking sacks goes, I have addressed it earlier in this thread. If you looked at what John Abraham had to say about Freeman who was ranked at #86, you would understand what is the most special feature about Freeman's QB'ing, avoiding sacks with strength or elusiveness.
[/quote]


Come on now...lol.. Sam Baker is a decent LT... Penn is one of the best LT's in the league... Dude is very very under-rated.

But yea... This is coming from a guy that sees Freeman yearly... Half of his ints came from our Falcons team... I absolutely think he should be on this year... I dont think he will always have this int/td ratio (will have more ints) but i do think he is one of the up incoming QB's in the league... I would have Ryan and Flacco over him as of now but its no doubt the guy should be on this list.

But of you put on what Cribbs said (how the players vote) and that Freeman also did not have a D to hold him up... I can get why the players had him higher...

I just cant forget that most of the teams they beat was not winning teams... But on the other end... You have to add in they was the youngest team and starting a boatload of rookies.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Raven Butcher' timestamp='1304958347' post='684107']
Ravens have weaker O-line because of the number of sacks Flacco has taken? Pass me some of that crack you are smoking. Buccaneers O-line is one of the worst in the league, Donald Penn is a decent starter at LT and that is it. Heck Buccaneers even fired their O-line coach for how bad they performed last season.

As far as taking sacks goes, I have addressed it earlier in this thread. If you looked at what John Abraham had to say about Freeman who was ranked at #86, you would understand what is the most special feature about Freeman's QB'ing, avoiding sacks with strength or elusiveness.
[/quote]

Yeah how many harrisons, woodleys, polamalu's, river's, mauluga's, are in your division, you have arbraham, and beason are you kidding me yeah he's hard to bring down until james harrison is flying off of his back.

[L4Lepz472]

i understand why everyone is mad about flacco only being 90. Im mad about freeman being higher than him to but at the same time this list is supposed to be who the players think will be the top players NEXT season. granted i dont think freeman will have anywhere near the season flacco has but im just happy to see that flacco is at least getting recoginition as one of the top 100 by the other players. and remember there are only 11 qbs on this list so that tells us that the other players regard him as a top 10 qb. As far as im concerned thats good enough on the respect and let people think some of these other guys are better, Joe will prove them all wrong next year anyway

[Raven Butcher]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1304961531' post='684123']
Yeah how many harrisons, woodleys, polamalu's, river's, mauluga's, are in your division, you have arbraham, and beason are you kidding me yeah he's hard to bring down until james harrison is flying off of his back.
[/quote]

Wow, all those defensive players you name play on one team, Pittsburgh. Rey Maualuga? He is a mediocre MLB, if you want to overrate him to support your argument, go ahead. Cleveland and Cincinnati have pathetic D-lines and offer no threat to sack QBs.

There are John Abraham, Charles Johnson and Will Smith in NFC South. Yeah, 2 of these 3 names might not be as popular as Woodley-Harrison, but these guys are studs. Not sure why you want to dismiss Freeman's talent of evading sacks while it is so evident on his tape.

[atljbo]

[quote name='Raven Butcher' timestamp='1304964954' post='684148']
Wow, all those defensive players you name play on one team, Pittsburgh. Rey Maualuga? He is a mediocre MLB, if you want to overrate him to support your argument, go ahead. Cleveland and Cincinnati have pathetic D-lines and offer no threat to sack QBs.

There are John Abraham, Charles Johnson and Will Smith in NFC South. Yeah, 2 of these 3 names might not be as popular as Woodley-Harrison, but these guys are studs. Not sure why you want to dismiss Freeman's talent of evading sacks while it is so evident on his tape.
[/quote]

Thats the One thing i think Matt Ryan doesnt get credit for.. If you are a Bucs fan... you know The Falcons O-Line is not as good as most think... Its just with Matt Ryan quick delivery and his pocket presences... Let me say this about Freeman tho... Besides Big Ben... Dude has to be the hardest QB to bring down... Its ridiculous how many tackles ive seen him break... Its not just arm tackles... The Defenders have dude in a bear hug and he somehow gets lose...

Big Ben, Freeman, and Rodgers has to be the hardest guys to bring down... Ben and Freeman just over power dudes.

[edreedfromtheu]

Yes, Flacco has been to the postseason 3 straight years. And yes, the RAVENS have won playoff games in each of those years. But I think you all are giving Flacco way too much credit for that. And on a similar note, I think Harbaugh is getting a lot more credit than he deserves. A change was needed from Billick, but this team was already good and I'm not convinced that ANYONE who came here would have had success simply by being a new face.

[berad]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1304967952' post='684168']
Yes, Flacco has been to the postseason 3 straight years. And yes, the RAVENS have won playoff games in each of those years. But I think you all are giving Flacco way too much credit for that. And on a similar note, I think Harbaugh is getting a lot more credit than he deserves. A change was needed from Billick, but this team was already good and I'm not convinced that ANYONE who came here would have had success simply by being a new face.
[/quote]

Flacco nor Harbaugh deserve credit for their accomplishments?

Flacco's started every game for three seasons with the Ravens - no other QB we've had has done that - and you'd find a short list of QBs around the NFL that can claim that too. On top of that, he's produced at a high level and helped us win a lot of games.

And a change may have been needed from Billick, that's true, but talent doesn't always equate to wins. Harbaugh changed the complexion and attitude of the team, we no longer struggle [i](putting it nicely)[/i] on the road, our record against teams we [i]should[/i] beat is astounding, and our record against strong teams is very respectable. We've won playoff games each season he's been here. The difference between the Billick-Ravens and the Harbaugh-Ravens is obvious.

I can see not giving a QB sole credit for W-L record, I agree with that, but it's hard to deny a coach his record and achievements.

Heck, I don't even need to defend these guys, the numbers do it for me.

[dt23]

I have a feeling that Mark Sanchez will be on this list and if he is hell be ranked higher than Flacco which isnt right. Hes so overrated.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='dt23' timestamp='1304970590' post='684195']
I have a feeling that Mark Sanchez will be on this list and if he is hell be ranked higher than Flacco which isnt right. Hes so overrated.
[/quote]
I totally agree. Just look at the offensive weapons he had to work with (Keller, Holmes, Edwards, Tomlinson) and he still didn't play very well. He has two legitimate deep threat WR and he struggled to get the ball deep more than Flacco.

[flynismo]

Why are we still arguing about this? lmao...My QB can beat up your QB..When Ryan actually wins a playoff game, or Freeman even gets his team to one (without fattening up on a cake schedule) then we can resume this debate.Until then, no one will convince me that either are better than Flacco.

[hawkprey]

[u]Here are truths:[/u] crossed-out ones are what the mainstream media/rankings neglect:

Freeman had better stats in one year.
[s]Freeman played bottom dwelling teams, plus the NFC West.[/s]
Flacco plays the NFC West this year so his stats will appear padded.
[s]The NFC West in 2011 will be better than the NFC West in 2010, so it is unfair to assume those are gimmes.[/s]
Josh Freeman has poofy hair.
[s]Joe Flacco played great with no O-line/run game/deep threat WR.[/s]


It's too early in the season to care. Tell me this Week 1 and I'll be ready to watch some Ravens football.

[Romo Ravens]

What do you guys think the excuse will be when Flacco wins a Super Bowl and is named MVP?

[dt23]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1304971005' post='684201']
What do you guys think the excuse will be when Flacco wins a Super Bowl and is named MVP?
[/quote]
That the defense carried the team all season... when it obviously hasn't done that in a while

[flynismo]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1304971005' post='684201']<br />What do you guys think the excuse will be when Flacco wins a Super Bowl and is named MVP?<br />[/quote]

Yeah, you know, that's something for us to chew on. Some of us want to see more from Flacco in the post season...but look at how Ryan's played in the postseason. We have little to complain about in comparison.

But we already know what the "excuse" will be...our aging defense carried us, or something along those lines

[flynismo]

[quote name='dt23' timestamp='1304971340' post='684206']<br />That the defense carried the team all season... when it obviously hasn't done that in a while<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />

haha, you beat me to it

[Romo Ravens]

They'll still say that even when Ray has like 30 tackles playing the worst season of his career and Ed and Ngata go down with injuries in the first game.. Lol

Sad part is I'm probably not wrong about it

[dt23]

I wonder where Ray Rice will rank on this list

[Suggs Package]

This would be my top ten of 2010 based on stats and how much he meant to his team's REGULAR SEASON success:

1.) Brady
2.) Rodgers
3.) Brees
4.) Ryan - his team really sucks, really
5.) Big Ben
6.) P.Manning
7.) Rivers
8.) Vick
9.) Freeman
10.)Flacco

Hoenstly, I can care less about where his peers rank him; just about winning. Top Ten, according to John Clayton, is elite haha, so we still have one of the "elite" QBs.

[atljbo]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1304971375' post='684207']
Yeah, you know, that's something for us to chew on. Some of us want to see more from Flacco in the post season...but look at how Ryan's played in the postseason. We have little to complain about in comparison.

But we already know what the "excuse" will be...our aging defense carried us, or something along those lines
[/quote]


Say what you want my friend... KC had 161 net yards against your D (IN THE PLAYOFFS) ... Cassle had 70 passing yards and 3 ints...

Vs the steelers... The D gave up 260+ net yards.... Your offense produced 126 net yards.

You can say aging D or this or that... A fact is... You guys have one of the best D's in the league (not the best but one of the best) ... Is that fair for Flacco... Maybe not... But some feel like he doesnt or hasnt carried the team.


And for the guys saying if Flacco wins the ship he wont get credit... Thats crazy... Dude will get credit... They may not overly praise the guy if the D does a lot but the guy will get credit...

Please let my falcons have a D like you guys... I wouldnt care how much credit Ryan gets... Dude just has to bring us home a championship.

As long as my QB is good enough to win a Championship... Im good.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1304967952' post='684168']
Yes, Flacco has been to the postseason 3 straight years. And yes, the RAVENS have won playoff games in each of those years. But I think you all are giving Flacco way too much credit for that. And on a similar note, I think Harbaugh is getting a lot more credit than he deserves. A change was needed from Billick, but this team was already good and I'm not convinced that ANYONE who came here would have had success simply by being a new face.
[/quote]


I figured it out. You're Rex Ryan aren't you? Joined in January 2009, right around the time we lost in the playoffs. Then you were named head coach of the jets and have some strange inferiority complex when it comes to dealing with your old team, which is why you constantly need to take shots at the coach that took the position you think you deserved and at the quarterback you wish you had leading your team.

[mgridda]

I have not read past the first page of this topic, so forgive me if any of the following is belabored. I've noticed several things about Joe Flacco and the outrage at his ranking or Josh Freeman outranking him.

1) Misunderstanding: Firstly, I think a misunderstanding must be addressed. Did they mean the best players of the year 2011? Or did they mean coming into the year 2011 who is the best? And what's the criteria for that? Some fans famously reward longevity and consistency by looking at a player's "last three years." Maybe the players don't buy into that because they're practicing or playing every single day of the season: so it seems longer and so: the work of a player in just a single season means more. Whereas a fan will look at that, scoff and say "what a one year wonder." So these misunderstandings need to be addressed

2) We know Flacco shows promise, we watch his games, we root for him. But has Flacco shown that he's really good? Outside of his potential - I have advocated how good Flacco really is and his ability to take games over - what has he really proven? Flacco got weapons in Boldin, Houshmandzadeh and Stallworth. Everyone around the league saw that. But, they didn't really notice that Gaither went down. They didn't notice how that disheveled our offensive line. And they noticed Flacco's fiasco against Cincinnati in week 2. That was hard for people to get their minds off of. So the perception that first impressions matter is really crucial here. Statistically, Flacco played better than Ryan: but was ranked at #90 and Ryan is still around to be ranked much lower. People notice that Ryan has Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez and the Falcons defense is not bad, but he passes the ball more than Flacco does and he ultimately led his team to victory in the Flacco/Ryan Bowl. That's not right, and I've argued many times that Flacco is either superior or equal to Ryan, but still...that's the perception: that Ryan is doing less with more.

3) Supporting Cast: Around the league, if they are looking at just a single year when they're asked "the best of 2011" (as I speculate they are) then picking Freeman over Flacco is a no brainer. Freeman may be terrible next year. He may have a real sophomore slump. He may be terrible for the rest of his careeer, but he had a - hands down - better 2011 than Flacco did. Firstly, look at his receivers: Arrelious Benn, Mike Williams, Kellen Winslow. His starting runningback was LeGarette Blount? Come on. And the NFC South may be weak defensively, but the Falcons and Saints are still teams a QB needs to keep up with. He finished 10 - 6 with that Bucs team and that Bucs defense. His QB rating was significantly higher than Flacco's and Ryan's. I have no issue with saying Freeman was the better QB in 2011. I highly doubt that will continue in 2012.

In fact, I think 2012 is the year - what with all the depth and talent we have at WR and on the offensive line with Rah, Gaither and Oher - that Flacco really goes and puts up elite numbers as a Quarterback with tremendous efficiency and where he can count on his receivers to not drop footballs in very important games.


It's a sad reflection on human nature that if Houshmandzadeh and Boldin wouldn't have dropped their passes in the playoffs against the Steelers that Flacco would be much higher (and those actions have nothing to do with Flacco) but, still.

It is what it is.

[dt23]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1304972703' post='684218']
This would be my top ten of 2010 based on stats and how much he meant to his team's REGULAR SEASON success:

1.) Brady
2.) Rodgers
3.) Brees
4.) Ryan - his team really sucks, really
5.) Big Ben
6.) P.Manning
7.) Rivers
8.) Vick
9.) Freeman
10.)Flacco

Hoenstly, I can care less about where his peers rank him; just about winning. Top Ten, according to John Clayton, is elite haha, so we still have one of the "elite" QBs.
[/quote]
Big Been doesn't mean that much they only lost 1 game without him.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='neoi78' timestamp='1304929447' post='684034']
Freeman has more talent around him then Joe? Your smoking some good stuff my friend. The ravens build is part of a reason why Joe succeeded in his rookie season as much as he did.
[/quote]
I mean our O line has issues and our WRs over the past few years have been hard pressed to get separation in time before someone is all over Flacco. I'll admit that I'm exaggerating a little bit about Freeman and the talent around him. But it's pretty close if you ask me.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1304972971' post='684223']
I have not read past the first page of this topic, so forgive me if any of the following is belabored. I've noticed several things about Joe Flacco and the outrage at his ranking or Josh Freeman outranking him.

1) Misunderstanding: Firstly, I think a misunderstanding must be addressed. Did they mean the best players of the year 2011? Or did they mean coming into the year 2011 who is the best? And what's the criteria for that? Some fans famously reward longevity and consistency by looking at a player's "last three years." Maybe the players don't buy into that because they're practicing or playing every single day of the season: so it seems longer and so: the work of a player in just a single season means more. Whereas a fan will look at that, scoff and say "what a one year wonder." So these misunderstandings need to be addressed

2) We know Flacco shows promise, we watch his games, we root for him. But has Flacco shown that he's really good? Outside of his potential - I have advocated how good Flacco really is and his ability to take games over - what has he really proven? Flacco got weapons in Boldin, Houshmandzadeh and Stallworth. Everyone around the league saw that. But, they didn't really notice that Gaither went down. They didn't notice how that disheveled our offensive line. And they noticed Flacco's fiasco against Cincinnati in week 2. That was hard for people to get their minds off of. So the perception that first impressions matter is really crucial here. Statistically, Flacco played better than Ryan: but was ranked at #90 and Ryan is still around to be ranked much lower. People notice that Ryan has Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez and the Falcons defense is not bad, but he passes the ball more than Flacco does and he ultimately led his team to victory in the Flacco/Ryan Bowl. That's not right, and I've argued many times that Flacco is either superior or equal to Ryan, but still...that's the perception: that Ryan is doing less with more.

3) Supporting Cast: Around the league, if they are looking at just a single year when they're asked "the best of 2011" (as I speculate they are) then picking Freeman over Flacco is a no brainer. Freeman may be terrible next year. He may have a real sophomore slump. He may be terrible for the rest of his careeer, but he had a - hands down - better 2011 than Flacco did. Firstly, look at his receivers: Arrelious Benn, Mike Williams, Kellen Winslow. His starting runningback was LeGarette Blount? Come on. And the NFC South may be weak defensively, but the Falcons and Saints are still teams a QB needs to keep up with. He finished 10 - 6 with that Bucs team and that Bucs defense. His QB rating was significantly higher than Flacco's and Ryan's. I have no issue with saying Freeman was the better QB in 2011. I highly doubt that will continue in 2012.

In fact, I think 2012 is the year - what with all the depth and talent we have at WR and on the offensive line with Rah, Gaither and Oher - that Flacco really goes and puts up elite numbers as a Quarterback with tremendous efficiency and where he can count on his receivers to not drop footballs in very important games.


It's a sad reflection on human nature that if Houshmandzadeh and Boldin wouldn't have dropped their passes in the playoffs against the Steelers that Flacco would be much higher (and those actions have nothing to do with Flacco) but, still.

It is what it is.
[/quote]


Just to comment on your point number three. QB ratings in 2010: Freeman- 95.9, Ryan - 91.0, Flacco - 93.6. I wouldn't say either one of these three performed significantly better than the others based on qb rating alone. Besides, of the three, Flacco is the only one who had a truly, truly miserable performance - that 4 INT debacle at Cinci last September. His qb rating from that game was, I think, in the low 20s, which really hurts his overall rating in comparison to the other two, and which, I think most people will admit, is a statistical outlier.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='dt23' timestamp='1304973058' post='684224']
Big Been doesn't mean that much they only lost 1 game without him.
[/quote]

Didn't they manage to beat the Falcons in week 1 without Ben?