Antwan Barnes

[scrock]

We have other guys on the roster who are used a situational pass rusher, Paul Kruger, all he does is make plays it seems like whenever he is on the field. Jason Philips..who knows, the Ravens will pick up someone in free agency if we have one and if there is a season, I'm really beginning to wonder...but when/if they do it won't be Barnes.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Corvus' timestamp='1304949927' post='684072']
I never once said in my post that I thought we should bring Barnes back, I even prefaced it by saying I was never a big fan of his in the first place. But he is a good enough 3-4 pass rushing OLB that it would have helped us last year if he wasn't in the doghouse to begin with, haha. That's all...

Also, I don't understand this sentiment that a situational player can't be arrogant. Don't get me wrong I'd rather have a confident than an arrogant player. But we are just going off media reports that are saying Barnes was. Weren't we all just griping about the same media that blew Jimmy Smith's "character concerns" out of proportion? Barnes' arrogance may well have been blown out of proportion, none of us really know. That said, if a kicker shows arrogance for making a gamewinner, is that "wrong" since they are the epitome of a situational player? If one of our gunners downs a punt inside the 5, should he be raked over the coals if he shows too much enthusiasm over his work? If a team's 4th or 5th WR makes a huge play to move the chains, can he not express his content over a job well done? EVERY player can show arrogance in his work, I just don't neccessarily condone it...
[/quote]
It wasn't celebratory kind of arrogance because he played well, it was a "I should be a starter arrogance" anytime he did play well. Guys like Ray and Ed can do what they want they've earned it. You can't walk around the locker room like your a G when your a situational player. It's not like Smith has walked in and declared himself a starter and shown arrogance to his teammates.

[RL52TheGreatest]

Barnes barely did anything when he was on the Ravens so I don't see why we would want him back. The grass is always greener on the other side...

[Free Agent]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1304893827' post='683814']
How many Eagles games did you watch last year? If you needed help finding Barnes he was the guy with a bush standing on the sidelines.
[/quote]

Actually, I remember watching an Eagles game, in which Barnes was getting some playing time. However, he was playing at OLB in coverage more than he was rushing the QB. In San Diego, they used him to rush the QB, and he was productive as a result.

[20ravens52]

[quote name='RL52TheGreatest' timestamp='1304969320' post='684183']
Barnes barely did anything when he was on the Ravens so I don't see why we would want him back. The grass is always greener on the other side...
[/quote]

Well thats because they didn't use him. He rarely saw the field on defense and played more special teams than anything else.

[flynismo]

,[quote name='20ravens52' timestamp='1305042184' post='684519']<br />Well thats because they didn't use him.  He rarely saw the field on defense and played more special teams than anything else.<br />[/quote]

Maybe we didn't use him because in three years he never gave us much reason to?,,,,

[Suggs Package]

Barnes wasn't particularly good for the Chargers last year. He had a couple good games, but that was it. We don't need him in my opinion, I agree with most of you. With the signing of Jimmy Smith, I see us taking more risks in blitzes and maybe more CB or Safety blitzes. Poor Jarret Johnson, he is such an underrated OLB, but just has a 4-3 strongside linebacker skillset with a 3-4 OLB size. He shouldn't blitz as much as we make him, he's probably one of the most ineffective blitzers at 3-4 OLB in the NFL, so we do need that situational guy.

Another option is to run more 4-3 looks with Suggs and Kruger(if he lives up to his potential) on the outside and Ngata and Redding in the middle. But we don't have another effective weakside guy and Ray may be kinda slow/big for a 4-3 MLB now.

[gabefergy]

Can we change the topic of this thread to "Antwan Barnes: Dont bring him back"?

[20ravens52]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1305044462' post='684536']
,

Maybe we didn't use him because in three years he never gave us much reason to?,,,,
[/quote]

Being as so many physically gifted players have excelled on this defense in the past especially in terms of pass rush there was no reason not too give him a shot. You can't judge someone unless you have seen them fail on the football field.

How many times did they allow Barnes to get after the QB in a game?

[Bltravens]

[quote name='20ravens52' timestamp='1305050216' post='684577']
Being as so many physically gifted players have excelled on this defense in the past especially in terms of pass rush there was no reason not too give him a shot. You can't judge someone unless you have seen them fail on the football field.

How many times did they allow Barnes to get after the QB in a game?
[/quote]
The guys we've had though were 3 down LBs and better than Barnes in every aspect in the past sans JJ as a pass rusher, JJ in everything else is like 400 times the football player Barnes is. We gave those past guys like Scott, AD, McClain opportunities because they were 3 down players. How often can you remember Baltimore even using a situational pass rusher? Suggs did it in 2003 because he wasn't a 3 down LB but an exceptional pass rusher. If Suggs was relegated to situational pass rushing, what do you think Barnes is? He's not coming back, and he'll never be a 3 down LB in the NFL, all he cares about is pass rushing and frankly he's one dimensional at that, he'll run all the way around the pocket 3 times if he has to in order to get to the QB.

[flynismo]

[quote name='20ravens52' timestamp='1305050216' post='684577']there was no reason not too give him a shot.  You can't judge someone unless you have seen them fail on the football field.<br /><br />How many times did they allow Barnes to get after the QB in a game?<br />[/quote]


The team obviously saw enough of him in OTA/preseason and TC to make a judgement; not to mention the games he was in. We may not know crap about WR, but nobody develops LB like we do, so if the team thought he didn't show enough to earn a shot, I give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

And just an FYI; I recall Barnes being on the field as a pass rusher fairly often in 2008 and 2009...enough to be thoroughly unimpressed by him. He's like Clayton was -- will put up a couple great efforts each year, and disappear completely at other times..

[20ravens52]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1305056646' post='684653']
he'll run all the way around the pocket 3 times if he has to in order to get to the QB.
[/quote]


Gotta love the effort...

But in all seriousness, I think we didn't use him to begin with because his time here when Harbaugh took over started off in the "doghouse" and ended there.

[mgridda]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1304740179' post='683115']
Jameel's natural position is on the outside anyways. I didn't understand the move to the inside to begin with.
[/quote]

Me neither, but I think it was because Phillips was injured and Ellerbe was in the dog house for that celebration in the preseason.

Maybe that escalated and didn't really go away. I really felt like Ellerbe was one of few Ravens players (along with non-ST playing Kruger) in the Ravens dog house last year.

[Bullrush]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1304799109' post='683301']
If he was that good, the Chargers would still have him right now..... talking about over hyping up someone, you put the icing on the cake. I would pursu Merrian if he's available before Barnes.
[/quote]
Uh, the Chargers do have him. Not sure what you're talking about, maybe you should check your facts first before trying to blast me.

[FerrariFan87]

I think Barnes is a good player, but as others have said, merely a situational player at this point... there are much better options out there.

[Bullrush]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1304815224' post='683398']
How can a matter of opinion be a fact? That's where you continue to lose me....

I have a TON of friends in SD and not a single one talks about Barnes being a better player than Phillips. That's just crazy and the fact that you're persistently standing your ground is quite humorous. There are reasons players are cut, don't play often, have lower statistics, etc....
[/quote]
It's funny how nobody in here claimed Barnes is a better player than Phillips, yet you try to make it sound that way. That's what's funny.

[Free Agent]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1305058404' post='684684']
Me neither, but I think it was because Phillips was injured and Ellerbe was in the dog house for that celebration in the preseason.

Maybe that escalated and didn't really go away. [b]I really felt like Ellerbe was one of few Ravens players (along with non-ST playing Kruger) in the Ravens dog house last year.[/b][/quote]

I agree. I couldnt believe he didnt get his deserved playing time in the 2010 regular season. I fell in love with his play at the end of 2009, and I was eager to see him play in 2010. There are so many other boneheads in the NFL that do far worse stuff than Ellerbe and still get to play. He was by far our best option next to Ray and we didnt play him. I was so disappointed.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1305059314' post='684695']
It's funny how nobody in here claimed Barnes is a better player than Phillips, yet you try to make it sound that way. That's what's funny.
[/quote]
Well the way you threw out "your" pressure stats for Barnes and Phillips sure made it seem that way.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1305059314' post='684695']
It's funny how nobody in here claimed Barnes is a better player than Phillips, yet you try to make it sound that way. That's what's funny.
[/quote]
Well then, for the sake of the board and everyone that did not agree with you (aka agreed with me) we apologize. Whether you said better "player" or "pass rusher", you're wrong!

[Bullrush]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1305061782' post='684735']
Well the way you threw out "your" pressure stats for Barnes and Phillips sure made it seem that way.
[/quote]
I said late in the season he was San Diego's best pass rusher, he put more pressure on the QB than anyone else on the roster. And that's a fact. Not sure why some of you guys are more worried with making him look bad, whether he can tackle or stop the run and what not. He's a one dimensional player, we all know he's terrible against the run. But he's a pretty good pass rusher.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1305063307' post='684758']Not sure why some of you guys are more worried with making him look bad, whether he can tackle or stop the run and what not.[/quote]


not to be captain obvious here, but the discussion was about why/why not bring Barnes back...

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1305063307' post='684758']
I said late in the season he was San Diego's best pass rusher, he put more pressure on the QB than anyone else on the roster. And that's a fact. Not sure why some of you guys are more worried with making him look bad, whether he can tackle or stop the run and what not. He's a one dimensional player, we all know he's terrible against the run. But he's a pretty good pass rusher.
[/quote]
I didnt watch any SD games late last year, but regardless he's not coming back the Ravens deemed him expendable for a 7th round pick clearly the value wasn't high with the Ravens.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1305064358' post='684770']
not to be captain obvious here, but the discussion was about why/why not bring Barnes back...
[/quote]
Bingo!

[Raveman]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1305056916' post='684657']
The team obviously saw enough of him in OTA/preseason and TC to make a judgement; not to mention the games he was in. We may not know crap about WR, [b]but nobody develops LB like we do, so if the team thought he didn't show enough to earn a shot, I give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.[/b]

And just an FYI; I recall Barnes being on the field as a pass rusher fairly often in 2008 and 2009...enough to be thoroughly unimpressed by him. He's like Clayton was -- will put up a couple great efforts each year, and disappear completely at other times..
[/quote]

There's a OLB out there named James Harrison that we passed on and has developed into one of the most productive pass-rushers in the league and the bane of our existence ;that little bit of knowledge should give us all a reason to doubt.

If we can't acquire anyone better i say bring Barnes back.

[20ravens52]

[quote name='Raveman' timestamp='1305074032' post='684846']
There's a OLB out there named James Harrison that we passed on and has developed into one of the most productive pass-rushers in the league and the bane of our existence ;that little bit of knowledge should give us all a reason to doubt.

If we can't acquire anyone better i say bring Barnes back.
[/quote]


yeah no one has mentioned that...not to say Barnes would be that good but you never know.

[Bullrush]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1305064358' post='684770']
not to be captain obvious here, but the discussion was about why/why not bring Barnes back...
[/quote]
You really need a discussion on why/why not bring back Barnes? Have you seen him play at all in the last 4 years when he was with us? What's there to discuss about? Here's a scouting report for anybody that hasn't followed the Ravens the last 4 years: Barnes is a very good situational pass rusher. There. That's it.

And we were NOT discussing why/why not to bring back Barnes. We discussing Barnes and Phillips, comparing their sack numbers. So whether he plays the run well or not has nothing to do with it. He's strictly a pass rusher, a pretty good one. When you add a guy like that you do that to shore up your pass rush. He's a situational guy who enters the field on obvious passing downs. We all know he's raw.

Then you hear these homers basically bash Barnes and knock his inability to stop the run. Again, he's not coming here to do anything BUT pass rush. To explain to you how ridiculous that argument is, those would be the same people that would question after adding a 30 year old Jerome Bettis, whether he can stretch the field or not. What does that have to do with anything? Is he gonna line up at WR and run deep routes? No. So what's the point? The one thing he does he's one of the best at, and that's where he'll be used.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Raveman' timestamp='1305074032' post='684846']<br />There's a OLB out there named James Harrison that we passed on and has developed into one of the most productive pass-rushers in the league and the bane of our existence ;that little bit of knowledge should give us all a reason to doubt.<br /><br />If we can't acquire anyone better i say bring Barnes back.<br />[/quote]

i dont see that as a reason to doubt the staff. You're not going to turn every mid/late round pick in to a pro bowler. Other than that one example, this staff has been on point in identifying and developing LB...they're allowed one screw up after giving us Ray, Boulware, Suggs, Sharper, Scott, Hartwell, Thomas and JJ in just a 15 year time span.

[mgridda]

[quote name='Raveman' timestamp='1305074032' post='684846']
There's a OLB out there named James Harrison that we passed on and has developed into one of the most productive pass-rushers in the league and the bane of our existence ;that little bit of knowledge should give us all a reason to doubt.

If we can't acquire anyone better i say bring Barnes back.
[/quote]

Barnes spent 4 off-seasons on the Ravens and 3 full years on the Ravens' roster.

Harrison spent 12 days on the Ravens roster.


false analogy.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1305095834' post='684962']
The one thing he does he's one of the best at, and that's where he'll be used.
[/quote]
One of the best? Really? "The best" doesn't float (and get cut) from team to team!

[Bullrush]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1305116631' post='685001']
One of the best? Really? "The best" doesn't float (and get cut) from team to team!
[/quote]
I was talking about Bettis...