Antwan Barnes

[Militant X 1]

i loved Barnes speed for madden.

~Mili

[flynismo]

Wow, last time we had this whole Barnes debate (when we kicked him to the curb), seemed like most of the forum thought it was dumb to get rid of him.Now it seems almost everyone realizes he has very little to offer, which is ironic since he finally showed at least something last season...He had plenty of time to prove himself and carve out a niche here. He didn't, we got rid of him, what more needs said?

[flynismo]

,[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1304789258' post='683265']<br />First of all it wasnt Mattison's idea or decision to get rid of him, it was a combination of Harbaugh and Ozzie with maybe limited imput from Mattison.  He was our best pass rusher when Suggs was fat in 2009, Barnes cant hold a candle to what Suggs can do pass rushing thats a joke.  He's not an everydown player who has a documented case of arrogance when he starts to play decent, you cant be arrogant when your a situational player.  Barnes is a good situational rusher nothing more.<br /><br />I dont even know how to rationalize the &quot;its like a 1st or 2nd round pick we lost&quot; statement.<br /><br />Phillips had 11 sacks last year, Barnes had 4 in 11 games.  Now you know who the better pass rusher is.<br />[/quote]


and half of his sacks came in one game last year, which means he did almost nothing in the other 10 games he played.


This just like Clayton, people don't realize how crappy Clayton played in STL last year, but hype him up anyway...,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1304770039' post='683189']
It's a fact I stated, not a jaded view. Go talk to Chargers fans and listen to what they have to say about Phillips. He's a good pass rusher but let's put it this way, even Ngata had more QB hurries than he did. And Barnes had close to as many as Phillips even though he's not getting much playing time.
[/quote]

Honestly ask yourself if you were going into a game as an offensive game planer, who would you focus on stopping Shaun Phillps with his 56.5 career sacks, or Antwan Barnes with his 9.5 career sacks.

You can't just blame Mattison for Barnes lack of production because in his first 2 seasons, he was under Rex Ryan.

Now I'm not saying Barnes is a bad player, because honestly I'd love to have him back in a situational pass rush situation, but saying Barnes was SD's best pass rusher when he wasn't even top 3 on the team in sacks is crazy.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1304813668' post='683387']<br />Honestly ask yourself if you were going into a game as an offensive game planer, who would you focus on stopping Shaun Phillps with his 56.5 career sacks, or Antwan Barnes with his 9.5 career sacks. <br /><br />You can't just blame Mattison for Barnes lack of production because in his first 2 seasons, he was under Rex Ryan. <br /><br />Now I'm not saying Barnes is a bad player, because honestly I'd love to have him back in a situational pass rush situation, but saying Barnes was SD's best pass rusher when he wasn't even top 3 on the team in sacks is crazy.<br />[/quote]


i just don't like the concept of a situational player in the first place...but that's a rant for another day...

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1304813134' post='683385']
,


[b]and half of his sacks came in one game last year, which means he did almost nothing in the other 10 games he played.[/b]


This just like Clayton, people don't realize how crappy Clayton played in STL last year, but hype him up anyway...,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
[/quote]

Hate to sound like i'm piling on, but 2 of his other sacks came in blow victories against Alex Smith and Brodie Croyle. The sack against the 49ers came in the 4th quarter when the game was well in hand, and the sack against the Chiefs came on the last play of the first half.

I wouldn't really call Barnes a pass rush demon

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1304770039' post='683189']
It's a fact I stated, not a jaded view. Go talk to Chargers fans and listen to what they have to say about Phillips. He's a good pass rusher but let's put it this way, even Ngata had more QB hurries than he did. And Barnes had close to as many as Phillips even though he's not getting much playing time.
[/quote]
How can a matter of opinion be a fact? That's where you continue to lose me....

I have a TON of friends in SD and not a single one talks about Barnes being a better player than Phillips. That's just crazy and the fact that you're persistently standing your ground is quite humorous. There are reasons players are cut, don't play often, have lower statistics, etc....

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1304814156' post='683391']
i just don't like the concept of a situational player in the first place...but that's a rant for another day...
[/quote]

Yea i can understand that, but if all you can do is get after the QB and we can fit you on the field on 3rd and longs, i don't have a problem with you. Although i'd much rather you bring as much value on 1st and 2nd downs as well.

[indianstick]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1304745327' post='683138']
Charger fans don't like him, apparently he can't stop the run and misses a lot of tackles.
[/quote]

Thats what his problem was here. When he actually got time in 09, he was doing a pretty OK job at getting pressure to the qb, but he was horrible against the run. I still remember when he completely whiffed on benson resulting in a long run, (that was the game that benson broke our streak of not allowing 100 yard rushers). He was inactive for a bunch of games after that, and even though the coaching staff said it wasn't because of his missed tackle, i'm almost positive that was why.
I was always a fan of barnes, and he was decent at SD last season so i wouldn't mind if he came back, esp with the lack of depth we have at olb. But, he can't be missing tackles, thats something he will have to fix if he wants to be more than a 3rd down pass rusher

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1304815630' post='683400']<br />Yea i can understand that, but if all you can do is get after the QB and we can fit you on the field on 3rd and longs, i don't have a problem with you. Although i'd much rather you bring as much value on 1st and 2nd downs as well.<br />[/quote]

that's pretty much why I don't like situational pass rushers...3rd and long will usually result in a punt regardless of the rush, 3rd and medium a team is going to usually throw a short quick pass, which negates the blitz anyway, or they'll run the ball...
I'd rather just have a more complete guy like JJ on the field who can handle whatever comes his way...especially over Barnes, who is a pass rusher who really isn't very effective at all at the one thing that he is supposed to do..

[wayne]

I just don't get playing at that size with that type of athleticism, how can being a mediocre pass rusher the only thing you good at. I mean, how can you not be good a stopping the run? How can you not be good at dropping back in a zone. Talking about wasted talent, smh!

[flynismo]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1304822864' post='683437']<br />I just don't get playing at that size with that type of athleticism, how can being a mediocre pass rusher the only thing you good at. I mean, how can you not be good a stopping the run? How can you not be good at dropping back in a zone. Talking about wasted talent, smh!<br />[/quote]


brains over brawn man...

[RoflDogs]

Barnes isn't coming back. FO and coaches obviously don't like the guy


But to say that he wasn't effective at pass rushing last year for SD is just ridiculous. He might've been terrible at everything else, but he got a ton of hurries

[wayne]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1304825209' post='683455']
brains over brawn man...
[/quote]
I have played football before ( not on the pro or college level ) and playing that position of OLB doesn't take that much brain for what they are asked to do. Watching plenty of film should cure any ignorantness with playing that position. Rush the passer but be keen on screens and RBs releasing into the flats. Drop back in a buzz zone or curl zone and watch your area and if there is no one in your area, possibly cheat in someone elses area. Cover the flats........ watch plenty of film on teams prior to playing them to study tendencies......

[wayne]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1304826584' post='683465']
Barnes isn't coming back. FO and coaches obviously don't like the guy


But to say that he wasn't effective at pass rushing last year for SD is just ridiculous. He might've been terrible at everything else, but he got a ton of hurries
[/quote]
If that was the case, why didn't SD resign him?

[flynismo]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1304826728' post='683467']<br />I have played football before ( not on the pro or college level ) and playing that position of OLB doesn't take that much brain for what they are asked to do. Watching plenty of film should cure any ignorantness with playing that position. Rush the passer but be keen on screens and RBs releasing into the flats. Drop back in a buzz zone or curl zone and watch your area and if there is no one in your area, possibly cheat in someone elses area. Cover the flats........ watch plenty of film on teams prior to playing them to study tendencies......<br />[/quote]


now wayne, what is wrong with this response:

"it doesn't take much brains to play the position...."

followed by the phrase "film study" several times. Lol

i mean I get what you're saying, it's not as demanding mentally as QB, but when I say 'brain over brawn', I mean everything from film study, coachability, and just pure instincts for the game...
I'm sure you already know that those fractions of a second of slowly processing what is going on as it happens often makes the difference between crashing through a gap or gettting there a hair too late and getting bumped, blocked or otherwise slowed down...brains is why Ray is still one of the best, even when physically he isn't near what he used to be..
If Barnes were half as smart as he was athletic, he'd be Boulware!

[wayne]

I agree^^^^^ and like you said, instincts, natural instincts.

[Corvus]

You guys can rip on Barnes all you want and honestly I was never a big fan of his either. All you need to know is 27 sacks. Our team has never recorded fewer sacks than it did last year in 16 games. I know that doesn't take into account QB pressures and guys aren't gonna make the sack happen 100% of the time, but come on! That is pitiful and it will have to be improved via free agency. I love JJ, but where were the sacks and pressures? The onus is on OLB in a 3-4 to get pressure, d-line pressure is really a bonus. Who do we have behind him and Suggs? Edgar Jones the guy who the team can't decide is a linebacker or a tight end? Burgess the career special teamer? Sergio still isn't cleared. Our next best rushers on the roster are playing out of position (Kruger, McClain), we've got NOBODY guys! So keep picking apart his one dimensional ability, but the fact is that 1 ability was badly needed by us last year. He gets arrogant when he plays well, right because he is the only player in the league like that, give me a break...

[codizzle]

Something tells me our pass rushers "will look" a lot better this year.. Jimmy smith

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Corvus' timestamp='1304863647' post='683571']
You guys can rip on Barnes all you want and honestly I was never a big fan of his either. All you need to know is 27 sacks. Our team has never recorded fewer sacks than it did last year in 16 games. I know that doesn't take into account QB pressures and guys aren't gonna make the sack happen 100% of the time, but come on! That is pitiful and it will have to be improved via free agency. I love JJ, but where were the sacks and pressures? The onus is on OLB in a 3-4 to get pressure, d-line pressure is really a bonus. Who do we have behind him and Suggs? [b]Edgar Jones the guy who the team can't decide is a linebacker or a tight end?[/b] Burgess the career special teamer? Sergio still isn't cleared. Our next best rushers on the roster are playing out of position (Kruger, McClain), we've got NOBODY guys! [b]So keep picking apart his one dimensional ability, but the fact is that 1 ability was badly needed by us last year. He gets arrogant when he plays well, right because he is the only player in the league like that, give me a break...[/b]
[/quote]

Jones isn't even on the team anymore.

There's nothing wrong with being arrogant but as [b]Blt[/b] said in an earlier post, you really can't be too full of yourself as a situational player, even if you're effective at what you do. Barnes not being fond of special teams and his inconsistency are also reasons the Ravens released him. I wouldn't be surprised if those issues led to the Eagles letting him go too.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Corvus' timestamp='1304863647' post='683571']<br />You guys can rip on Barnes all you want and honestly I was never a big fan of his either. All you need to know is 27 sacks. Our team has never recorded fewer sacks than it did last year in 16 games. I know that doesn't take into account QB pressures and guys aren't gonna make the sack happen 100% of the time, but come on! That is pitiful and it will have to be improved via free agency. I love JJ, but where were the sacks and pressures? The onus is on OLB in a 3-4 to get pressure, d-line pressure is really a bonus. Who do we have behind him and Suggs? Edgar Jones the guy who the team can't decide is a linebacker or a tight end? Burgess the career special teamer? Sergio still isn't cleared. Our next best rushers on the roster are playing out of position (Kruger, McClain), we've got NOBODY guys! So keep picking apart his one dimensional ability, but the fact is that 1 ability was badly needed by us last year. He gets arrogant when he plays well, right because he is the only player in the league like that, give me a break...<br />[/quote]

we needed Barnes here in 07, 08 and 09 too, that didn't work out so well, which is why we got rid of him.


But..... yeah, so what if he's an arrogant [i]<dirtbag>.[/i] Let him celebrate when he does his job, as long as he does his job.

[Free Agent]

I remember watching a Chargers games last season, and Antwan was getting constant pressure. After seeing that game, I just couldnt believe that we released him. We really should bring him back.

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1304826815' post='683468']
If that was the case, why didn't SD resign him?
[/quote]

There might be a lot of reasons.

1. Lockout
2. The "sucks at everything else" part

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1304872546' post='683637']
Something tells me our pass rushers "will look" a lot better this year.. Chuck Pagano
[/quote]

Fixed

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Corvus' timestamp='1304863647' post='683571']
You guys can rip on Barnes all you want and honestly I was never a big fan of his either. All you need to know is 27 sacks. Our team has never recorded fewer sacks than it did last year in 16 games. I know that doesn't take into account QB pressures and guys aren't gonna make the sack happen 100% of the time, but come on! That is pitiful and it will have to be improved via free agency. I love JJ, but where were the sacks and pressures? The onus is on OLB in a 3-4 to get pressure, d-line pressure is really a bonus. Who do we have behind him and Suggs? Edgar Jones the guy who the team can't decide is a linebacker or a tight end? Burgess the career special teamer? Sergio still isn't cleared. Our next best rushers on the roster are playing out of position (Kruger, McClain), we've got NOBODY guys! So keep picking apart his one dimensional ability, but the fact is that 1 ability was badly needed by us last year. He gets arrogant when he plays well, right because he is the only player in the league like that, give me a break...
[/quote]
You cant be arrogant when your not even a 3 down LB....thats like (baseball reference) Matt Stairs being arrogant because hes a pinch hitter and every so often hits a homerun. How can you be arrogant as a situational guy?

I dont see the point of this anyway, Barnes is better than any depth we have right now, but he was better than any depth we had when we traded him. Theres no difference, we still traded him with Kindle having a broken head.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Free Agent' timestamp='1304887239' post='683753']
I remember watching a Chargers games last season, and Antwan was getting constant pressure. After seeing that game, I just couldnt believe that we released him. We really should bring him back.
[/quote]

How many Eagles games did you watch last year? If you needed help finding Barnes he was the guy with a bush standing on the sidelines.

[codizzle]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1304891508' post='683787']
Fixed
[/quote]
Agreed but the only reason he will have more freedom ia because of jimmy.. But he n jimmy collectively will be the reason

[scrock]

He wasn't used right the first time he was here or he just wasnt good enough to get on the field, we traded him to the Eagles...who then sat him and released him and/or traded him....cant remember

[Elmo]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1304893827' post='683814']
How many Eagles games did you watch last year? If you needed help finding Barnes he was the guy with a bush standing on the sidelines.
[/quote]

Actually he played LDE for the Eagles for the first on or two games after being traded... It was a disaster... He spent more time on the ground then getting after the QB, which was why he was released I remember watching one of those Eagles games, and it was embarassing to watch Barnes, he didn't do anything productive for the Eagles... I didn't watch him in SD however, but I suppose standing up in the 3-4 gives him a better use of his speed....

[Corvus]

I never once said in my post that I thought we should bring Barnes back, I even prefaced it by saying I was never a big fan of his in the first place. But he is a good enough 3-4 pass rushing OLB that it would have helped us last year if he wasn't in the doghouse to begin with, haha. That's all...

Also, I don't understand this sentiment that a situational player can't be arrogant. Don't get me wrong I'd rather have a confident than an arrogant player. But we are just going off media reports that are saying Barnes was. Weren't we all just griping about the same media that blew Jimmy Smith's "character concerns" out of proportion? Barnes' arrogance may well have been blown out of proportion, none of us really know. That said, if a kicker shows arrogance for making a gamewinner, is that "wrong" since they are the epitome of a situational player? If one of our gunners downs a punt inside the 5, should he be raked over the coals if he shows too much enthusiasm over his work? If a team's 4th or 5th WR makes a huge play to move the chains, can he not express his content over a job well done? EVERY player can show arrogance in his work, I just don't neccessarily condone it...