Which Is Worse?

[YYZ66]

So, who do think has done more damage to their franchise? What Snyder has done to the Redskins, or what Angelos has done to the Orioles?

These were both once proud organizations. I'm really not sure which is worse? I give a slight edge to Angelos. At least the Redskins have been somewhat competive recently, even making the playoffs a couple years ago. When is the last time the Orioles even came close to post season play?

Your thoughts?

[bpytnjr58]

[quote name='YYZ66' timestamp='1304704604' post='682864']
So, who do think has done more damage to their franchise? What Snyder has done to the Redskins, or what Angelos has done to the Orioles?

These were both once proud organizations. I'm really not sure which is worse? I give a slight edge to Angelos. At least the Redskins have been somewhat competive recently, even making the playoffs a couple years ago. When is the last time the Orioles even came close to post season play?

Your thoughts?
[/quote]
I too have to give the nod to Angelos due to a decade plus of losing seasons and low attendance. The only time the seats are filled at Camden Yards is when the Yankees and Red Sox are there and we know who those fans are! At least the Skins keep the seats full and have been somewhat competitive.

[MsMarvel73]

Holy smokes, you went there!!!!

[Guest Maryland1]

[font="Verdana"][size="2"]Angelos. He's allowed the Orioles, a once proud, model championship-caliber franchise to become the laughing stock of MLB. There is absolutely no excuse for 13 consecutive losing seasons.[/size][/font]

[George70]

[quote name='Maryland1' timestamp='1304732223' post='683076']
[font="Verdana"][size="2"]Angelos. He's allowed the Orioles, a once proud, model championship-caliber franchise to become the laughing stock of MLB. There is absolutely no excuse for 13 consecutive losing seasons.[/size][/font]
[/quote]

I have to agree with you here, Mod One, what Angelos has done to the ballclub which once was called, "Winning Incorporated", is a disgrace.

What I would like to see happen to the Orioles is simple - the team becomes a non-profit, joint stock corporation, much along the lines of the Packers. Shares of stock in the team sell for a decent price per share. The shares cannot be sold for profit, and the team cannot move to another city.

[berad]

I'd have to say Angelos. Just because the Redskins are closer to being good than the Orioles. That may be a function of the different leagues they play in but meh. Neither is good by any stretch.

[Alexir]

Skins have been to the Playoffs in the last 12 years, Orioles haven't...just got back from the game, 8-2 Rays...

[JO_75]

I'll have to go Angelos. Sure Dan Snyder couldn't turn the Redskins around with all the picks they got from the Saints and is more of a Fantasy Football guy but 13 years of losing trumps what Snyder has done with the Redskins.

I understand firing Dave Trembley, if it were me he would have been fired before last season. Though there is a time where you have to go, it's not the players, it's not the Manager, and you have to look at the Front Office and I think Angelos needs to be fired and we need to bring in someone else to run the team.

[ed.s52]

I'm not even a baseball fan, and when I do I rep SF (not a bandwagon from the Bay Area), but definitely the Orioles under Angelos.

The O's are terrible, and in all honesty if Albert Haynesworth and Donnavan McNabb panned out the Redskins could easily be a playoff contender imo.

[YYZ66]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1304803935' post='683339']
I'm not even a baseball fan, and when I do I rep SF (not a bandwagon from the Bay Area), but definitely the Orioles under Angelos.

The O's are terrible, and in all honesty if [b]Albert Haynesworth and Donnavan McNabb panned out the Redskins could easily be a playoff contender imo[/b].
[/quote]

I really think brining in Shanahan was a mistake. First thing he did was alienate Haynesworth. And the McNabb fiasco? Where to even start on that?

If it wasn't for Elway and Terrell Davis, would we even consider Shanahan a good coach?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1304803681' post='683337']
I'll have to go Angelos. Sure Dan Snyder couldn't turn the Redskins around with all the picks they got from the Saints and is more of a Fantasy Football guy but 13 years of losing trumps what Snyder has done with the Redskins.

I understand firing Dave Trembley, if it were me he would have been fired before last season. Though there is a time where you have to go, it's not the players, it's not the Manager, and you have to look at the Front Office and [b]I think Angelos needs to be fired and we need to bring in someone else to run the team.[/b]
[/quote]

I disagree. The franchise has been in the gutter for a long time and he certainly deserves blame for that but at least now, there's a semblance of young talent on the rise. No one can convince me the farm system hasn't noticeably improved since Angelos hired MacPhail.

[theblackdog]

Oh man, I have a tough choice in this one. If I base it on team and FO performance, and the likelihood it could be turned around, I'd have to say that Angelos was the worse owner. If I base it on putting the screws to the fans, Snyder completely blows Angelos out of the water. Making it nearly impossible to take public transportation to FedEx field, charging fans for the privilege to watch training camp, outrageous parking fees, the infamous banning of any signs being carried into the stadium last year (especially ones critical of Snyder), and suing 70 year old season ticket holders put Snyder on his own level.

[Bltravens]

The biggest problem baseball has is the "luxury tax" deal instead of a hard salary cap. Baseball will never be a truly competitive league in its entirety because of this. Its one of the biggest reasons why "america's game" has slowly switched from baseball to football in the last couple decades. I watch plenty of baseball, but its next to impossible to compete with teams like the Yankees/Red Sox/Phillies etc on a yearly basis. Sure the Giants won the World Series last year with a ragtag bunch of guys but that was an anomaly in baseball. I'll always find it hard to completely hold baseball GMs/Owners accountable for a baseball team's failure without a hard cap implemented by Selig. My Blue Jays have almost zero chance to win the AL East in any capacity in the next 10 years, they had to pony up big time and take a major gamble for their only consistent hitter in Bautista who at the time was a 1 year wonder. Traded away Halladay for minor league prospects hoping they would turn out to be contributor's in the next couple years.

[bpytnjr58]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1305139035' post='685139']
The biggest problem baseball has is the "luxury tax" deal instead of a hard salary cap. Baseball will never be a truly competitive league in its entirety because of this. Its one of the biggest reasons why "america's game" has slowly switched from baseball to football in the last couple decades. I watch plenty of baseball, but its next to impossible to compete with teams like the Yankees/Red Sox/Phillies etc on a yearly basis. Sure the Giants won the World Series last year with a ragtag bunch of guys but that was an anomaly in baseball. I'll always find it hard to completely hold baseball GMs/Owners accountable for a baseball team's failure without a hard cap implemented by Selig. My Blue Jays have almost zero chance to win the AL East in any capacity in the next 10 years, they had to pony up big time and take a major gamble for their only consistent hitter in Bautista who at the time was a 1 year wonder. Traded away Halladay for minor league prospects hoping they would turn out to be contributor's in the next couple years.
[/quote]
If you look at all the players who went through Montreal during their time just think what kind of teams the Expos would have had if they could have afforded to keep them..there was no way they could compete with the big market teams...there could have been a couple of championships there but drawing five thousand a game was not going to cut it....so you have the Nationals!