Torrey Smith: The Next Greg Jennings + Jeremy Maclin

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1304625263' post='682351']
Smith does not strike me in the least bit as a reliable number one option. Doss' is not that far behind Smith in terms of speed and his hands are [i]vastly[/i] superior to Smith's. He's tough, so won't miss much time. Everything about Doss strikes me as a number one option. Smith, not so much.
[/quote]

Yea but when I look at Doss I see another possession WR. Not saying that there is anything wrong with that, I'm just tired of them always being our number one. With Smith, you get play making ability, speed, and someone who can get some yards after the catch. I really like Doss, I hope he is the next Mason, but Smith to me looks like he can be the next Roddy White, in which case, I'd rather have the latter as my number one Wide Out.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1304625547' post='682360']
Yea but when I look at Doss I see another possession WR. Not saying that there is anything wrong with that, I'm just tired of them always being our number one. With Smith, you get play making ability, speed, and someone who can get some yards after the catch. I really like Doss, I hope he is the next Mason, but Smith to me looks like he can be the next Roddy White, in which case, I'd rather have the latter as my number one Wide Out.
[/quote]

There's nothing wrong with a possession receiver, and with Doss you get possession [i]and[/i] speed. Like I said, the difference in speed between the two is extremely slim, no matter what people want to say. And when I say our future number one, I mean once Boldin and Mason are gone. I'd much rather have a "possession" receiver and a "deep threat" (that is if Smith is actually the deep threat his lovers claim). But when push comes to shove, I want the more reliable receiver as the number one, and like I said, Doss and his hands seem much more reliable than Smith and his... body.

I don't see any Roddy White in Smith. Smith isn't as physical or strong as White, he's going to have to rely as his burst off the line to beat defenders, because he's not going to win many jostling matches. Torrey has potential, but I don't see much, if any, of White in him.

[ravens rule]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1304624456' post='682339']
I know that Doss has a lot of promising qualities, but what is it that makes you think he'll be our number one when Boldin is finished, as opposed to Smith?
[/quote]
I like Torrey but Doss is the better receiver clearly and the fo really like Torrey so i say we should be happy with what we got, 2 wr who could help us reach our goals this season(if there's one)

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1304625905' post='682365']
There's nothing wrong with a possession receiver, and with Doss you get possession [i]and[/i] speed. Like I said, the difference in speed between the two is extremely slim, no matter what people want to say. And when I say our future number one, I mean once Boldin and Mason are gone. I'd much rather have a "possession" receiver and a "deep threat" (that is if Smith is actually the deep threat his lovers claim). But when push comes to shove, I want the more reliable receiver as the number one, and like I said, Doss and his hands seem much more reliable than Smith and his... body.

I don't see any Roddy White in Smith. Smith isn't as physical or strong as White, he's going to have to rely as his burst off the line to beat defenders, because he's not going to win many jostling matches. Torrey has potential, but I don't see much, if any, of White in him.
[/quote]

I don't think Doss has the burst that Smith does, or the vertical, but I won't dispute the fact that his speed isn't THAT far off. As for the hands, it'll take time. I'm aware that his hands are small, but I've never had any trouble catching the football, in practice or in a game, and my hands are probably a full inch smaller than his. Everything that Smith seems to lack can all be worked on at the next level. I've always felt like Smith and White were very similar players, even before we drafted him. I know he's not as physical but they have similar bodies, solid leaping ability, and can cause some damage in open space. I'm just excited about Torrey, not to take anything away from Doss. I just know that Smith is an extremely hard worker and a great person. Albeit he is a little raw, he has a lot of potential to bet that go to guy after Boldin retires.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='ravens rule' timestamp='1304626101' post='682371']
I like Torrey but Doss is the better receiver clearly and the fo really like Torrey so i say we should be happy with what we got, 2 wr who could help us reach our goals this season(if there's one)
[/quote]

Because he has better hands?

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1304626511' post='682377']
I don't think Doss has the burst that Smith does, or the vertical, but I won't dispute the fact that his speed isn't THAT far off. As for the hands, it'll take time. I'm aware that his hands are small, but I've never had any trouble catching the football, in practice or in a game, and my hands are probably a full inch smaller than his. Everything that Smith seems to lack can all be worked on at the next level. I've always felt like Smith and White were very similar players, even before we drafted him. I know he's not as physical but they have similar bodies, solid leaping ability, and can cause some damage in open space. I'm just excited about Torrey, not to take anything away from Doss. I just know that Smith is an extremely hard worker and a great person. Albeit he is a little raw, he has a lot of potential to bet that go to guy after Boldin retires.
[/quote]

Even as someone who's not a fan of Torrey, I've admitted he has tremendous upside if he can work on his game. While Doss may not have the "burst" Torrey does, he's still quick to get off and I think he's still a step or two above Smith in terms of route running (he's still raw though).

Let's say Smith works hard and does turn out to be a deep threat, and Doss ends up being a quick "possession" receiver. That would be the ideal receiver duo, you have the reliable, sure-handed "possession" guy who's going to get you those first downs, and that guy who can get down field and distract the defense and open up your number one. They'd compliment each other well.

[Yatagarasu]

I have to say that comparing Torrey Smith and Tandon Doss are like comparing apples and oranges. Yes, they're both Wide Receivers, however, they are different players. If you read the first post of this thread, I claim that Torrey Smith is a good fit to be a small wide receiver (a player who can get the ball in space by quick screens, deep routes, or end-arounds) because of his quickness and speed. Tandon Doss clearly fits the role of a big receiver (a receiver who can offer possession roles, red zone target, tough catches over the middle) because of his size, great hands, route running skills. I believe they both can be great impacts in their own roles because in the NFL you clearly need both types of receivers to be a very dynamic offense.

However, you can only be considered to be a great Wide Receiver by the impact you produce, which are basically productions for WRs. Yes people claim that the best WRs that can get a 100 receptions, 1200+ yards, 10+ TDs, and so-on. However, I think reputation is probably important as well as production. In a crowd WR Corps, not everyone can produce 1000 yd stats, unless your QB throws on almost every play like how Hawaii did. I think here Reputation can offer a lot because if you are a wide receiver known to be a big-time threat, the defense will not go to sleep on you. I like Torrey's reputation as a deep threat, which finally help our team by stretching the field. Last year, every defense knew our WR Corps was slow, so basically they can all play press coverage and wait for the pass rushers to sack Joe "I hold the ball too long" Flacco. Now, with a deep threat, teams better be careful.

More on Tandon, I like him as a future possession receiver who will slowly replace Derrick Mason and Anquan Boldin. The thing I like about Doss is that he's a bigger Derrick Mason, or like younger T. J. Houshmandzadeh. Note: both T.J. or Doss aren't fast, yet can get the chain moving with tough catches. I think our future WR Corps is set as we pick this year as the year of the WRs. Imagine, what Flacco can do when he has Greg Jennings and younger T.J. Houshmandzadeh. That's the expectation from the Front Office on Torrey Smith and Tandon Doss.

I know some people in this thread hate labeling draftees with great players. However, I think using these comparisons are the fastest way for people to understand what type of players we have on our team, when they reach their potentials.

[AwakenTheDemon]

Sorry, but you have to earn a reputation in the NFL as well before defenses plan around you. Right now, defenses aren't going to be concerned about Smith from day one. They'll give him about as much attention as anyone else, until he [i]shows[/i] defenses that they have to be concerned about him.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1304624219' post='682335']
Sorry, but I think it'd be Doss as our future number one, with either Smith or Reed as the two, and the remainder as the slot guy.
[/quote]

Him being the number one WR still won't change the fact that he'll be used more on underneath routes and occasional deep routes.

If it plays out the way you think and Doss turns into our number one. Then I can see that situation going like this. Doss has leads the team in receptions, but Reed and Smith but have higher yard per catch.

I really like Doss to, but the injuries he played through were some serious injuries. There is no guarantee that he'll get his speed back. However what he still has are reliable hands, and that combined with his size, well make him a perfect target for Flacco in that 10-15 yard range. Also like another TE.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1304627382' post='682394']
Even as someone who's not a fan of Torrey, I've admitted he has tremendous upside if he can work on his game. While Doss may not have the "burst" Torrey does, he's still quick to get off and I think he's still a step or two above Smith in terms of route running (he's still raw though).
[b]
Let's say Smith works hard and does turn out to be a deep threat, and Doss ends up being a quick "possession" receiver. That would be the ideal receiver duo, you have the reliable, sure-handed "possession" guy who's going to get you those first downs, and that guy who can get down field and distract the defense and open up your number one. They'd compliment each other well.[/b]
[/quote]

I know you are not a big fan of Torrey Smith, and you clearly think highly of Tandon Doss, however why does it seem you place a limitation on Torrey Smith. That limitation seems to be a deep threat.

What if Smith develops into a well round WR who you just need to get the ball into his hands because he's a dynamic play maker. Wouldn't you want that type of guy as your #1?

Not that it would ultimately matter which one turns into a #1, with the way this offense is shaping up, it'll be well balanced and the number will be pretty close to even, with guys like Smith, Doss, Reed, Dickson, Pitta and Rice. Like i said before if hey all develop into what we think they can be, whether that's a #1, deep threat, Possession guy, or whatever, Flacco will have his choice of who he wants to throw too. If that happens I don't think any of us will care who's #1

[atljbo]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1304658366' post='682701']
I know you are not a big fan of Torrey Smith, and you clearly think highly of Tandon Doss, however why does it seem you place a limitation on Torrey Smith. That limitation seems to be a deep threat.

What if Smith develops into a well round WR who you just need to get the ball into his hands because he's a dynamic play maker. Wouldn't you want that type of guy as your #1?

Not that it would ultimately matter which one turns into a #1, with the way this offense is shaping up, it'll be well balanced and the number will be pretty close to even, with guys like Smith, Doss, Reed, Dickson, Pitta and Rice. Like i said before if hey all develop into what we think they can be, whether that's a #1, deep threat, Possession guy, or whatever, Flacco will have his choice of who he wants to throw too. If that happens I don't think any of us will care who's #1
[/quote]


Ozzie has really put together some young talent for Flacco.. I forgot about the TE's.

I agree with you...I dont see Doss or Smith as #1 guys (they are not aggressive enough) But with so many weapons... You dont need that.. Each weapon brings something to the offense. Does has great hands and i think the guy is faster then that 4.6 speed.... Smith is fast.. a lil raw in route running and a lil passive... But the guy can definitely stretch the field... I love the 2 young TE's you guys have (i wanted the falcons to draft pitta last year) ... As long as everything pans out... You guys are sitting nice with the weapons... Like i said before on another thread... Ozzie knows that to beat the steelers... You guys need to spread them out and pick them apart... You guys have the weapons now

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1304710334' post='682934']
Ozzie has really put together some young talent for Flacco.. I forgot about the TE's.

I agree with you...I dont see Doss or Smith as #1 guys (they are not aggressive enough) But with so many weapons... You dont need that.. Each weapon brings something to the offense. Does has great hands and i think the guy is faster then that 4.6 speed.... Smith is fast.. a lil raw in route running and a lil passive... But the guy can definitely stretch the field... I love the 2 young TE's you guys have (i wanted the falcons to draft pitta last year) ... As long as everything pans out... You guys are sitting nice with the weapons... Like i said before on another thread... Ozzie knows that to beat the steelers... You guys need to spread them out and pick them apart... You guys have the weapons now
[/quote]
Tandon Doss could be a number 1. If Hardy pans out between Hardy, Reid, Smith and Doss I think we're set at WR.

[atljbo]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1304710769' post='682938']
Tandon Doss could be a number 1. If Hardy pans out between Hardy, Reid, Smith and Doss I think we're set at WR.
[/quote]



I'm a Doss fan (in college) ... I have more faith in Doss becoming a #1 over Smith (thats no knock on smith.. he is good in his on right) ... I agree with that... At the end of the day.. Boldin is your #1 WR now...

I personally think Doss can do damage in the slot running seam routes colston style...


I agree.. You guys have good young weapons.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1304714503' post='682990']
I'm a Doss fan (in college) ... I have more faith in Doss becoming a #1 over Smith (thats no knock on smith.. he is good in his on right) ... I agree with that... At the end of the day.. Boldin is your #1 WR now...

I personally think Doss can do damage in the slot running seam routes colston style...


I agree.. You guys have good young weapons.
[/quote]

I think Smith, Reid and Doss will round out our receivers.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1304658366' post='682701']
I know you are not a big fan of Torrey Smith, and you clearly think highly of Tandon Doss, however why does it seem you place a limitation on Torrey Smith. That limitation seems to be a deep threat.

What if Smith develops into a well round WR who you just need to get the ball into his hands because he's a dynamic play maker. Wouldn't you want that type of guy as your #1?

Not that it would ultimately matter which one turns into a #1, with the way this offense is shaping up, it'll be well balanced and the number will be pretty close to even, with guys like Smith, Doss, Reed, Dickson, Pitta and Rice. Like i said before if hey all develop into what we think they can be, whether that's a #1, deep threat, Possession guy, or whatever, Flacco will have his choice of who he wants to throw too. If that happens I don't think any of us will care who's #1
[/quote]

Who says I'm putting a limitation on Smith? I've said multiple times he has tremendous upside and potential. But he's simply not going to be the man with the reliable hands that can almost always get you that first down when you need, like Mason has been for us for years and how I feel Doss will be in the future. Will Smith improve his catching? Sure, I don't doubt it. But I just don't [i]ever[/i] see him making some of the catches I've already seen Doss make in college.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1304731693' post='683072']
Who says I'm putting a limitation on Smith? I've said multiple times he has tremendous upside and potential. But he's simply not going to be the man with the reliable hands that can almost always get you that first down when you need, like Mason has been for us for years and how I feel Doss will be in the future. Will Smith improve his catching? Sure, I don't doubt it. But I just don't [i]ever[/i] see him making some of the catches I've already seen Doss make in college.
[/quote]

That catch at ohio state was just stupid. He just grabbed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAR8ATXD-X4

[atljbo]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1304731829' post='683074']
That catch at ohio state was just stupid. He just grabbed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAR8ATXD-X4
[/quote]


Thats a nice catch

check out this catch

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVV70efL26Q[/media]

I will say this..With the things both GM's gave them... Flacco and Ryan has the weapons they need now

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1304731829' post='683074']
That catch at ohio state was just stupid. He just grabbed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAR8ATXD-X4
[/quote]

That's what I'm saying! Doss doesn't even need the ball to be anywhere near his body to make the catch lol

[gabefergy]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1304731829' post='683074']
That catch at ohio state was just stupid. He just grabbed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAR8ATXD-X4
[/quote]
That was a very nice catch, but also a very lazy route.

[neoi78]

Guys.. its REED not REID. Reid is our new RT. David Reed is our WR. LOL

[1/28/01]

[quote name='neoi78' timestamp='1304763180' post='683180']
Guys.. its REED not REID. Reid is our new RT. David Reed is our WR. LOL
[/quote]
Guys? Its just one dude making the same mistake.....

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1304731693' post='683072']
Who says I'm putting a limitation on Smith? I've said multiple times he has tremendous upside and potential. But he's simply not going to be the man with the reliable hands that can almost always get you that first down when you need, like Mason has been for us for years and how I feel Doss will be in the future. Will Smith improve his catching? Sure, I don't doubt it. But I just don't [i]ever[/i] see him making some of the catches I've already seen Doss make in college.
[/quote]

It never said you acutally put limitations on him, I just said you seem to place limitation on him. Again like before, it's something you wrote, that i didn't though came out a certain way, and instead of just attacking you and saying, hey you are wrong, I'd rather attempt to get a better understanding of what you said.

When you say things like

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1304625905' post='682365']
I'd much rather have a "possession" receiver and a "deep threat" (that is if Smith is actually the deep threat his lovers claim). But when push comes to shove, I want the more reliable receiver as the number one, and like I said, Doss and his hands seem much more reliable than Smith and his... body.
[/quote]

I took that as you, while admitting his potential and upside, just kept Torrey in a box, as if he'll never develop into a great pass catch(that potential is there). Now I understand this statement is what you want, not what you're saying is ultimately going to happen but still.

Things like this.....

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1304627382' post='682394']
Let's say Smith works hard and does turn out to be a deep threat, and Doss ends up being a quick "possession" receiver. That would be the ideal receiver duo, you have the reliable, sure-handed "possession" guy who's going to get you those first downs, and that guy who can get down field and distract the defense and open up your number one. They'd compliment each other well.
[/quote]

To say, if Smith works hard and develop into a "deep threat" as if he can't develop into a well rounded WR who'll be able to attack ever level of the defense. I just get the impression that you view Torrey Smith like an, Yamon Figurs, or DHB, and that's not who he is.

Now I know you've said on numerous times that Smith has potential and a very high upside. But when you say things like he's just not going to be that guy that gets you the first down when you need, It just seems like to me, you think that upside will only be a deep threat, #2 type guy that will take coverage away from a #1.

[Ravensfan23]

Doss has really strong hands indeed, but that doesn't make him #1 material. Mark Clayton had great hands and never developed into our #1. For people that think Smith has a larger learning curve, Doss's is just a steep. Doss and Smith ran a lot of the same routes at their respective schools. However Doss had 2 other WRs that were just as productive if not more so. His passing attack was more spread out and they just wanted to get the ball in his hands.

Smith was pretty much the only WR option the Terps had. With a very strong rushing game and a young QB, the terps didn't have much of a passing game. However even with little production for the rest of the WRs, Torrey Smith was still able to dominate games at times.

Both of these guys have tremendous potential and whatever label is placed on them, will be determined by how hard they work. These guys could work together and be viewed like a Randy Moss/Chris Carter, were nobody cares who's the #1. Or they could be a 1-2 punch that ultra productive and every one has a different view of who's #1.

However, right now to say who'll develop into a #1 or deep threat, or who'll be the better guy, while fun to do, it's pointless. Mainly because we don't know how either one of these guys will transition into the NFL, how long will it take them to adapt to the NFL game. How will they handle possibly not having the same kind of success they had in college? It's a lot that goes into guys developing into #1 WR or even productive WRs in the NFL. Hands and route running are just a small portion of it.

[flynismo]

Torrey is nothing like Roddy White. Stop dreaming people.I do see a whole lotta Chad Johnson in him though. Let's just hope it's the mid '00s version.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1304780153' post='683219']
Torrey is nothing like Roddy White. Stop dreaming people.I do see a whole lotta Chad Johnson in him though. Let's just hope it's the mid '00s version.
[/quote]

I see a little Roddy White in him besides his physicality and hands. His frame, height, ability to maneuver in open space, his yards after the catch ability and his explosiveness are all identical to White's play. Torrey has more speed as well

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1304780780' post='683226']
I see a little Roddy White in him besides his physicality and hands. His frame, height, ability to maneuver in open space, his yards after the catch ability and his explosiveness are all identical to White's play. Torrey has more speed as well
[/quote]
Lets hope Smith is more like Wallace or Boldin in that he is highly productive his first season. White was bordering on bust before the light finally came on for him. We need instant impact.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1304797428' post='683292']
Lets hope Smith is more like Wallace or Boldin in that he is highly productive his first season. White was bordering on bust before the light finally came on for him. We need instant impact.
[/quote]

That's why you can't really say what a player will or won't be, or who he'll be like in the NFL based off of his college production and definitely not youtube. The most you can really do is point our their potential.

You don't know who a guy is gonna be in the NFL until he is that guy. Who knows, 5 years from now there might be a guy coming out of college that people say, if he works hard enough he'll be the next Torrey Smith, or Tandon Doss, or David Reed.

Hell Smith, Reed, and Doss might turn into a dominate trio that can all catch 60-80 passes for 1,000 yards and 7-12 TDs a year and they'll make those NFL Network top 10 list. Who knows. Sometimes it just best to sit back, wait and see. Rather then saying what a guy will or won't do.

[AwakenTheDemon]

I swear I've never had people dissect my posts so much until Torrey Smith came along.

[ellicottraven]

While I am glad that Torrey has all the measurables, the only measurable that concerns me honestly are his small hands! That is perhaps the single most important element to a WR right?

[atljbo]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1304780780' post='683226']
I see a little Roddy White in him besides his physicality and hands. His frame, height, ability to maneuver in open space, his yards after the catch ability and his explosiveness are all identical to White's play. Torrey has more speed as well
[/quote]


A very poormans Roddy White..... He is not aggressive and physical like Roddy.. I dont think most ppl know how physical Roddy is (he is a former state champion wrestler in highschool) .. Thats a HUGE part of Roddy's game....

Thats why i dont think you can compare the 2... Smith is more finesse.. I would compare him to Maclin before Roddy...

I agree with flynismo... Chad Johnson is not a bad comparison.... But Smith body catches alot of ball... one thing ill give chad... in his prime... dude was a great hand catcher. But the Chad Johnson comparison isnt a bad one.

Ill stop ill the comparisons tho... You guys have a young fast WR that brings something you guys was missing..