Troy Better Than Ed?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='stopsizzle55' timestamp='1305611514' post='687363']
im the biggest reed fan there is but its interesting to see the lack of him in steelers games. when was the last time he had a big play against them? or any team in a huge situation. because i can remember right off the top of my head polamalu with the strip sack this past year and the int return td to seal the 08 playoffs against us. just something to think about. and for the record i think reed is better because i would rather have an int td than a 3 yd tackle for loss
[/quote]

When you're positioned roughly 20 yards off the ball the vast majority of the time and are rarely tested, you're not going to be in a position to make many big plays. That Reed makes so many period is a testament to his amazing abilities.

Even though Mendenhall scored on the next play, Ed stoned him at the goal-line to prevent a TD on Pittsburgh's first drive in the play-off game last season. He also recovered a big fumble which led to Joe's TD pass to Heap.

[Bmoresun]

This Comparison is kinda Pointless to begin with considering that Reed and Troy play different positions, positions which demand different skill sets, and styles of play. However, unlike Troy, Reed did play SS form 2002 to 2004 before converting to FS. That is a two year period from 2003-2004 that both players played the same position, during which time Reed beat Troy in almost every statistical category. Add on the great success Reed has also had playing the FS position; this leads me to believe that Reed is ultimately the more versatile safety, being able to excel in all areas of the safety position. That being said Reeds stats speak for themselves, he has proven season after season to be the best FS in the league, something i believe Troy could not do if asked to transition positions; while at the same time Troy has clearly become the best SS in the NFL. I will note however, that the fact that Reed missed 6 games last year and still led the league in interceptions is ungodly, and one more reason he will be a first ballot Hall of Famer.

[BmoreRaised]

[quote name='Blackbird20' timestamp='1304666688' post='682711']
I am a new Ravens fan in 2011, although I know much of and have seen most of the Ravens games dating back to 1996 as I have been a devout fan of the NFL since 1984. There is absolutely no question even before I became a Ravens fan, that Ed Reed is unquestionably a better Safety than Troy (even though they play different positions). In fact, I will go as far as to say that the only safety at both positions that was better was Ronnie Lott, but Reed is a close 2nd. I am not trying to say that Troy isnt a great player, because he is, I will give him his due. But he cant touch Ed Reed, I dont even care what any Pittsburgh fan has to say about it.

At the end of the day it all comes down to making plays, and Reed just totally destroys Troy in interceptions and TD's, and thats what its all about. Before becoming a Ravens fan, I always had a huge amount of respect for Reed and how he just had this uncanny ability to make plays on the football. Even when Reed used to rip apart the team I followed for 25 years (not an AFC North team), it was hard to get angry about a player that you had to respect.

Troy, eat your heart out, you will never be as great as Ed Reed, past, present or future. Reed is a first ballot hall of famer and I certainly believe he will retire with the ring he deserves - and I personally intend to be a part of this moment! No blackbird will ever wear #20 again when his legendary career comes to a close.

Go Ravens!!!!
[/quote]
I agree with
1:Ronnie Lott
2:Ed Reed
It is hard to argue now that they both play different positions,but when Ed played SS he did put up better numbers.I'd take Ed over Troy as coming from overall career production,now if you're talking right now and considering SB wins I'd take Troy let's go back to AFC championship game against Ravens Troy had the INT which sealed the game,troy has made some huge plays over the last few years its close as I said overall Ed but right now Troy

[flynismo]

,[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1304910943' post='683977']<br />You know as much as I like both players there is one who I think would have been greater than both and this would not be a discussion right now.  R.I.P. Sean Taylor.  That man was a beast if ed reed and troy Polamalu had a love child it would have been Taylor.  He was big, fast, smart, fierce, and tough.  He could run, he could hit, he could blitz, he could do it all.<br />[/quote]

taylor could do it all, but did none of it as well as Ed or Hairball.
Jack of all trades, master of none kinda thing...,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1305627844' post='687398']
taylor could do it all, but did none of it as well as Ed or Hairball.
Jack of all trades, master of none kinda thing...,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
[/quote]

Sean was a better tackler and bigger hitter than both of them but he never surpassed them in coverage or as a play-maker.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1305627844' post='687398']
,

taylor could do it all, but did none of it as well as Ed or Hairball.
Jack of all trades, master of none kinda thing...,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
[/quote]
I dunno about master of none, like ER20 said, Taylor could tackle better and harder than 90% of the LBs in the league at the time. Guy was a monster, I loved him and TO going at it man, legit battles.

[flynismo]

Yeah, was a great tackler, he was more likely than Hairball or Ed to knock a ball loose and cause a fumble (stats confirm that too), and actually averaged more solo tackles per season than Hairball. If he was given more time, I think he would have been the best run stuffing safety in the league, and maybe one of the best ever.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1305659563' post='687534']
Yeah, was a great tackler, he was more likely than Hairball or Ed to knock a ball loose and cause a fumble (stats confirm that too), and actually averaged more solo tackles per season than Hairball. If he was given more time, I think he would have been the best run stuffing safety in the league, and maybe one of the best ever.
[/quote]

He was really starting to attack the ball his last season. He had 5 picks in 7 games. He was just blooming too...
I feel like he would have been the best safety right now.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

His hit on Moorman in the Pro Bowl was vicious. You can see the respect that Moorman had for him in congratulating him on the big play. ([url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGsutVPOXw"]Link[/url])

If the Redskins had Landry and Taylor back there right now, they would be downright scary.

[Clutch Ravens]

Ed Reed is a first ballot Hall of Famer. Ronnie Lott said he wished he could do some of the things Reed does when he has his hands on the ball.

[url="http://www.procanes.com/files/3f5256dc5edbfa1411ce80e7abbbb3cf-3580.html"]Lott on Reed[/url]

Ed Reed in his prime versus Troy Polamalu in his prime...I'm taking Ed Reed EVERY time without a single doubt in my mind.

[52GOAT]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1305567055' post='687031']
How would he know? He played the Pittsburgh Steelers in the SB, not the Ravens. I think it's been established that Troy was still hurting in that game.

Instead you should just ask Flacco.
[/quote]
Troy was hurt most of the year and made great plays, so we can't really blame injury for the fact jennings made him look bad.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='52GOAT' timestamp='1305663388' post='687574']
Troy was hurt most of the year and made great plays, so we can't really blame injury for the fact jennings made him look bad.
[/quote]

He wasn't hurt most of the year with this injury and it was an achilles. Kind of hard to get a jump with an injured achilles. Again, Troy was there; Ed was not.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Clutch Ravens' timestamp='1305660406' post='687544']
Ed Reed is a first ballot Hall of Famer. Ronnie Lott said he wished he could do some of the things Reed does when he has his hands on the ball.

[url="http://www.procanes.com/files/3f5256dc5edbfa1411ce80e7abbbb3cf-3580.html"]Lott on Reed[/url]

Ed Reed in his prime versus Troy Polamalu in his prime...I'm taking Ed Reed EVERY time without a single doubt in my mind.
[/quote]

Haha. And you can tell Ronnie Lott in a match up between he and Mark Bavaro, I'm taking Mark Bavaro every time

[Bltravens]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1305665967' post='687607']
He wasn't hurt most of the year with this injury and it was an achilles. Kind of hard to get a jump with an injured achilles. Again, Troy was there; Ed was not.
[/quote]
I dont think its any stretch of the imagination to say Ed is better in coverage than Troy is. Thats not the first Super Bowl Troy has struggled in pass coverage in, or the first spread offense that he has had a small impact against.

Troy is better around the box and running around all crazy in the 10-15 yard zones. Ed is better at anticipating routes and in the 20+ yard zones.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1305673935' post='687669']
I dont think its any stretch of the imagination to say Ed is better in coverage than Troy is. Thats not the first Super Bowl Troy has struggled in pass coverage in, or the first spread offense that he has had a small impact against.

Troy is better around the box and running around all crazy in the 10-15 yard zones. Ed is better at anticipating routes and in the 20+ yard zones.
[/quote]

Ed is the ball hawkingest safety ever, period. He puts up the numbers. No question about it. My argument for Troy is, he's simply not asked to do it. He's usually playing up to the line. In the SB he was ineffective due to the achilles. But I still think a healthy Troy could put these numbers up if he was playing FS back like Ed does most of the time. Ed is also on a team that has, for a long time, known how to block for an INT return. Not taking anything away from him, but the numbers don't always tell the whole story.

We lost that SB more due to 3 turnovers each leading directly to TD's than anything else.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1305675593' post='687682']
Ed is the ball hawkingest safety ever, period. He puts up the numbers. No question about it. My argument for Troy is, he's simply not asked to do it. He's usually playing up to the line. In the SB he was ineffective due to the achilles. But I still think a healthy Troy could put these numbers up if he was playing FS back like Ed does most of the time. Ed is also on a team that has, for a long time, known how to block for an INT return. Not taking anything away from him, but the numbers don't always tell the whole story.

We lost that SB more due to 3 turnovers each leading directly to TD's than anything else.
[/quote]
Ya I wasnt pinning the loss on Polamalu or anything like that. They have different strengths, and are the best in the business at those strengths.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1305677893' post='687705']
Ya I wasnt pinning the loss on Polamalu or anything like that. They have different strengths, and are the best in the business at those strengths.
[/quote]

lol, that part wasn't directed at you BLT.

Me and my little rants...haha

[Bltravens]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1305677988' post='687709']
lol, that part wasn't directed at you BLT.

Me and my little rants...haha
[/quote]
lol alright I gotchu

[-Truth-]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1305675593' post='687682']
Ed is the ball hawkingest safety ever, period. He puts up the numbers. No question about it. My argument for Troy is, he's simply not asked to do it. He's usually playing up to the line. In the SB he was ineffective due to the achilles. But I still think a healthy Troy could put these numbers up if he was playing FS back like Ed does most of the time.[b] Ed is also on a team that has, for a long time, known how to block for an INT return.[/b] Not taking anything away from him, but the numbers don't always tell the whole story.

We lost that SB more due to 3 turnovers each leading directly to TD's than anything else.
[/quote]
To be fair, the majority of Reed's pick sixes in the required no blocking from the defense, at least in the regular season.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1305680212' post='687731']
To be fair, the majority of Reed's pick sixes in the required no blocking from the defense, at least in the regular season.
[/quote]

That's not true at all. Like I said, I'm not trying to take anything away from him and yes he's had to break a few tackles here and there, but the Ravens have always been good scoring on defense.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1305681476' post='687741']
That's not true at all. Like I said, I'm not trying to take anything away from him and yes he's had to break a few tackles here and there, but the Ravens have always been good scoring on defense.
[/quote]
I'm not at all saying we haven't been stout when a defender has the ball in his hands. We certainly are. But my comment was meant to praise Reed instead of demeaning the rest of the defense. Like I said, I can't recall many TDs where he received extensive help from his blockers in the regular season. Using the Week 5 match up against Bengals in '09, for example, wherein he breaks on the ball while accelerating and houses it without any defender being within proximity to even slow him down. The 107 yard return against the Eagles, wherein he gets past Kevin Kolb, Brian Westbrook, Todd Herremans in succession and cuts off Brent Celek all on his own. Or the Week 3 game against the Browns in '08, where he once again catches the ball while accelerating, shifts past Jason Wright and gets by Derek Anderson on his way to pay-dirt. You could argue against his 106 yard return versus the Browns in '04, where one of his teammates makes a key block. Although since it is on an Offensive Lineman, it's not a given that Reed wouldn't have scored without it. Reed obviously receives help on his '06 TD, since Samari Rolle pitches him the ball. Of course I wouldn't chalk it up to blocking, but that's irrelevant I guess. I also can't find any footage on his first career INT TD. But even if you count the latter two against him, that's 3 to 2 ratio, which is why I said majority. My point is, Reed is at least as good on his own as his blockers are, and I wouldn't see his amount of INT TDs declining if he another team had selected him.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1305684441' post='687757']
I'm not at all saying we haven't been stout when a defender has the ball in his hands. We certainly are. But my comment was meant to praise Reed instead of demeaning the rest of the defense. Like I said, I can't recall many TDs where he received extensive help from his blockers in the regular season. Using the Week 5 match up against Bengals in '09, for example, wherein he breaks on the ball while accelerating and houses it without any defender being within proximity to even slow him down. The 107 yard return against the Eagles, wherein he gets past Kevin Kolb, Brian Westbrook, Todd Herremans in succession and cuts off Brent Celek all on his own. Or the Week 3 game against the Browns in '08, where he once again catches the ball while accelerating, shifts past Jason Wright and gets by Derek Anderson on his way to pay-dirt. You could argue against his 106 yard return versus the Browns in '04, where one of his teammates makes a key block. Although since it is on an Offensive Lineman, it's not a given that Reed wouldn't have scored without it. Reed obviously receives help on his '06 TD, since Samari Rolle pitches him the ball. Of course I wouldn't chalk it up to blocking, but that's irrelevant I guess. I also can't find any footage on his first career INT TD. But even if you count the latter two against him, that's 3 to 2 ratio, which is why I said majority. My point is, Reed is at least as good on his own as his blockers are, and I wouldn't see his amount of INT TDs declining if he another team had selected him.
[/quote]

I'd like to break those down myself as I don't know if you're discounting blocks not on the screen of the speedsters who may have caught him. They are almost always there.

[Ed_Reed20]

Great post Truth.

I remember Steve Sabol interviewing Ed in 2005 and asking what his favorite play was. Reed brought up a play against the Bengals in either '02 or '03 where where he weaved in and out of traffic after an interception. The blocking wasn't particularly good(as he himself said) and Reed was seemingly moving on instinct alone. When he was in the clear, he slowed down and held the ball out, allowing Houshmandzadeh to strip him of it. But the play illustrated just how dangerous Ed is when he gets his hands on the rock.

To me, among defensive players, only Deion, Rod Woodson and Darren Sharper compare to him when the ball is in their hands.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1305686010' post='687769']
Great post Truth.

I remember Steve Sabol interviewing Ed in 2005 and asking what his favorite play was. Reed brought up a play against the Bengals in either '02 or '03 where where he weaved in and out of traffic after an interception. The blocking wasn't particularly good(as he himself said) and Reed was seemingly moving on instinct alone. When he was in the clear, he slowed down and held the ball out, allowing Houshmandzadeh to strip him of it. But the play illustrated just how dangerous Ed is when he gets his hands on the rock.

To me, among defensive players, only Deion, Rod Woodson and Darren Sharper compare to him when the ball is in their hands.
[/quote]
Thanks. I wish I knew where to find the play so I could see it for myself.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1305687060' post='687778']
Thanks. I wish I knew where to find the play so I could see it for myself.
[/quote]

I'm sure it's among the many Reed highlight videos on YouTube.

[wayne]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1305675593' post='687682']
Ed is the ball hawkingest safety ever, period. He puts up the numbers. No question about it. My argument for Troy is, he's simply not asked to do it. He's usually playing up to the line. In the SB he was ineffective due to the achilles. But I still think a healthy Troy could put these numbers up if he was playing FS back like Ed does most of the time. Ed is also on a team that has, for a long time, known how to block for an INT return. Not taking anything away from him, but the numbers don't always tell the whole story.

We lost that SB more due to 3 turnovers each leading directly to TD's than anything else.
[/quote]
I seriously doubt that Troy could put up Ed Reed numbers if he played FS. Darren Woodson even said that Ed could fit on any D where basically Troy is just good with what the Steelers ask him to do but he doesn't feel that style translate to any D like Ed style does.

[zgf123]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1305675593' post='687682']
Ed is the ball hawkingest safety ever, period. He puts up the numbers. No question about it. My argument for Troy is, he's simply not asked to do it. He's usually playing up to the line. In the SB he was ineffective due to the achilles. But I still think a healthy Troy could put these numbers up if he was playing FS back like Ed does most of the time. Ed is also on a team that has, for a long time, known how to block for an INT return. Not taking anything away from him, but the numbers don't always tell the whole story.

We lost that SB more due to 3 turnovers each leading directly to TD's than anything else.
[/quote]


and reed isnt asked to do what troy does in the box....when reed played SS in 2004 he won DPOY and put up just as many tackle/sacks troy did but way more picks and return yards troy has...reed had more return yards in 04 than troy has in his career! thats crazy seperation... no offense but troy isnt even on the same level as reed career wise...and to say troy was in a superbowl and reed wasnt proves nothing.... in the NBA robert horry has 7 rings... MJ has 6, horry isnt top 100... michael is #1, championships are a team feat not a position feat

[wayne]

[quote name='zgf123' timestamp='1305692684' post='687805']
and reed isnt asked to do what troy does in the box....when reed played SS in 2004 he won DPOY and put up just as many tackle/sacks troy did but way more picks and return yards troy has...reed had more return yards in 04 than troy has in his career! thats crazy seperation... no offense but troy isnt even on the same level as reed career wise...and to say troy was in a superbowl and reed wasnt proves nothing.... in the NBA robert horry has 7 rings... MJ has 6, horry isnt top 100... michael is #1, championships are a team feat not a position feat
[/quote]
I couldn't have said it any better myself,lol.

[zgf123]

its funny how woodson, lott, and sanders all say reed is the best safety hands down... (3 of the greatest dbs of all time) yet steelers fans say troy is better cause he has a ring...no offense but im gonna listen to the hall of fame DBs and take reed 10 times out of 10

[wayne]

[quote name='zgf123' timestamp='1305693025' post='687810']
its funny how woodson, lott, and sanders all say reed is the best safety hands down... (3 of the greatest dbs of all time) yet steelers fans say troy is better cause he has a ring...no offense but im gonna listen to the hall of fame DBs and take reed 10 times out of 10
[/quote]
I common sensely agree.