Troy Better Than Ed?

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

You know as much as I like both players there is one who I think would have been greater than both and this would not be a discussion right now. R.I.P. Sean Taylor. That man was a beast if ed reed and troy Polamalu had a love child it would have been Taylor. He was big, fast, smart, fierce, and tough. He could run, he could hit, he could blitz, he could do it all.

[grape drank]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1304529069' post='681394']
HA! Okay.
[/quote]
lol EVEN if you had a valid point I think it would still get neg'd. Just goes with the territory. I will Agree Palamalu is far more versatile as he's basically a small OLB with safety speed ( a fast safety at that). However our boy Ed is one of the smartest players of all time (probably only 2nd to Ray who is also on our team )

[grape drank]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1304910943' post='683977']
You know as much as I like both players there is one who I think would have been greater than both and this would not be a discussion right now. R.I.P. Sean Taylor. That man was a beast if ed reed and troy Polamalu had a love child it would have been Taylor. He was big, fast, smart, fierce, and tough. He could run, he could hit, he could blitz, he could do it all.
[/quote]

He was just coming into his prime as well. R.I.P

that 2000 Miami team was RIDICULOUS so many future pro bowlers....WOW

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='grape drank' timestamp='1304911274' post='683981']
He was just coming into his prime as well. R.I.P

that 2000 Miami team was RIDICULOUS so many future pro bowlers....WOW
[/quote]

That aint no kidding, portis, mcgahee, gore, mckinnie, shockey, winslow, olsen, andre johnson, roscoe parrish, vilma, williams, rolle, reed, taylor, wayne, wilfork, morgan, and buchannon all on the same team is just ridiculous.

[Purple&Black]

first and foremost I think troy means more to his team bc the steeler D drops off big time without him, but Ed is the only guy in the league that can miss 6 games and still lead the NFL in ints. certainly a more exciting player. but where troy as an edge is bc he plays ss so he gets involved in the run more. the deciding factor comes down to who qbs fear more when they look across the field and frankly as great a player as troy is and despite the ints he gets, he is nowhere near as good in coverage and gets beat quite often...example superbowl

[Purple&Black]

yea i have to agree actually....sean taylor was the best of ed and troy. if he were still around then troy would be number#3 in this discussion

[grape drank]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1304911744' post='683985']
That aint no kidding, portis, mcgahee, gore, mckinnie, shockey, winslow, olsen, andre johnson, roscoe parrish, vilma, williams, rolle, reed, taylor, wayne, wilfork, morgan, and buchannon all on the same team is just ridiculous.
[/quote]
correct me if im wrong but wasn't lavernius coles in there somewhere as well

[BloodRaven]

Since this is a passing league I don't see why the edge wouldn't go to Reed, who is the best ball hawking safety in history.

[Yatagarasu]

I think you guys have to think it this way.

Imagine if the Steelers and Ravens traded Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed. I can tell you this, I would be more scared of the Steelers with Ed Reed than the Ravens with Troy Polamalu. With that pass rush, Ed Reed would easily get double-digit interception every year. Heck he might even contend for DPOY and interception records.

Every team wants playmaking safeties, but I truly think Ed Reed will have a greater impact than Polamalu. Yeah, people tell Polamalu is better because of the rings and I agree. However, I also think any mediocre safeties can play for the Steelers and get a ring. The Steelers are built year in and year out to get rings. If only if the Ravens were consistent as the Steelers. I don't think it does justice for Ed Reed to finish his career without a ring because he already has his name written in the Hall of Fame

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='grape drank' timestamp='1304915453' post='684009']
correct me if im wrong but wasn't lavernius coles in there somewhere as well
[/quote]
very true sir

[Marcus]

They both play two different positions. Are we going to start comparing RB's to FB's now?

[Ravenslifer]

Why are these conversations still going on? People who love their team and their players will defend whoever it is, and pull out whatever statistics they have to in order to validate their arguments. I know, because I do it all the time. Who cares who's better than who? When Troy's and Ed's careers are over, they'll be talked about the same way we talk about the GOAT at the qb position. Some people will say Marino or Favre because of the numbers. Some will say Joe Montana because of the four Superbowls. Some will say Steve Young because of his career qb rating (though it remains to be seen if Rivers and/or Rodgers will eventually beat him there). Hey, you could even make a case for Kurt Warner, since his numbers need to be looked at based on his comparatively short time under center (compared to guys like Favre, Manning, Marino, etc.). I have my own opinion on the Ed vs. Troy debate, but the fact is they do play two different positions. It really is like comparing an inside linebacker i.e. Ray Lewis to an outside linebacker i.e. Lawrence Taylor. Both are considered among the GOAT at their respective positions, but they can't really be compared to each other since their roles on their respective teams are completely different. Ed makes many more plays in the secondary because that's where he is most of the time. Troy makes more plays up at the line of scrimmage and past it because thats where HE is most of the time.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1304961582' post='684124']
Why are these conversations still going on? People who love their team and their players will defend whoever it is, and pull out whatever statistics they have to in order to validate their arguments. I know, because I do it all the time. Who cares who's better than who? When Troy's and Ed's careers are over, they'll be talked about the same way we talk about the GOAT at the qb position. Some people will say Marino or Favre because of the numbers. Some will say Joe Montana because of the four Superbowls. Some will say Steve Young because of his career qb rating (though it remains to be seen if Rivers and/or Rodgers will eventually beat him there). Hey, you could even make a case for Kurt Warner, since his numbers need to be looked at based on his comparatively short time under center (compared to guys like Favre, Manning, Marino, etc.). I have my own opinion on the Ed vs. Troy debate, but the fact is they do play two different positions. It really is like comparing an inside linebacker i.e. Ray Lewis to an outside linebacker i.e. Lawrence Taylor. Both are considered among the GOAT at their respective positions, but they can't really be compared to each other since their roles on their respective teams are completely different. Ed makes many more plays in the secondary because that's where he is most of the time. Troy makes more plays up at the line of scrimmage and past it because thats where HE is most of the time.
[/quote]

Id rather have a pick than a TFL or even a sack though.

[atljbo]

I think it depends on what you like... Lets not act like Troy P doesnt have great ball skills... But Ed Reed has Elite ball skills..

Troy P is more of an enforcer and reed is more of a ball hawk...

I would not have a problem with anyone picking either one... Both are HOF type guys.. Both are game changers

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1304963005' post='684133']
I think it depends on what you like... Lets not act like Troy P doesnt have great ball skills... But Ed Reed has Elite ball skills..

Troy P is more of an enforcer and reed is more of a ball hawk...

I would not have a problem with anyone picking either one... Both are HOF type guys.. Both are game changers
[/quote]
Troys got ball skills not going to say that he doesnt but what seperates them again is the fact that Ed can take it to the crib anytime he gets the ball.

[wayne]

[quote name='Corvus Amplus' timestamp='1304950636' post='684076']
I think you guys have to think it this way.

Imagine if the Steelers and Ravens traded Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed. I can tell you this, I would be more scared of the Steelers with Ed Reed than the Ravens with Troy Polamalu. With that pass rush, Ed Reed would easily get double-digit interception every year. Heck he might even contend for DPOY and interception records.

Every team wants playmaking safeties, but I truly think Ed Reed will have a greater impact than Polamalu. Yeah, people tell [b]Polamalu is better because of the rings and I agree[/b]. However, I also think any mediocre safeties can play for the Steelers and get a ring. The Steelers are built year in and year out to get rings. If only if the Ravens were consistent as the Steelers. I don't think it does justice for Ed Reed to finish his career without a ring because he already has his name written in the Hall of Fame
[/quote]

The rings has nothing to do with it, thats a team statistic, not an individual statistic which is the only thing you can use when comparing players. QB's is probably the only position that can get away with using the SB statistic and not in all cases.

Also, people have to understand that Ed played SS and he produced better stats playing at that position with way more highlight reels also. Ed was blowing people up and hitting RBs in the backfield and blocking punts, sacking QBs and returning fumbles for TDs, all that.......[b]so I get tired of people saying they can't compare the two b/c thats furthest from the truth[/b] for Ed's sake anyway b/c he played Troy's position and in two years got DPOY doing it.

[atljbo]

[quote name='ArmyRaven52' timestamp='1304963199' post='684135']
Troys got ball skills not going to say that he doesnt but what seperates them again is the fact that Ed can take it to the crib anytime he gets the ball.
[/quote]


Not trying to be a smart ***.. But at the end of the day Ed Reed have 6 career return ints to the crib to Troy P's 2... Thats not alot to separate them... Plus i see that *** the + on Ed Reed side dealing with ball skills/playmaker ability


Both are great Safeties... Like I said.. It all depends on what you prefer... I feel like its no right or wrong answer... Troy P make plays and Ed Reed make plays.

[ravenswoman]

[quote name='Corvus' timestamp='1304532114' post='681430']
..... Ed and Troy should have been 1a and 1b on that list. ....
[/quote]
Good idea, but then there will be the arguments over who is A and who is B...

[wayne]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1304964913' post='684147']
Not trying to be a smart ***.. But at the end of the day Ed Reed have 6 career return ints to the crib to Troy P's 2... Thats not alot to separate them... Plus i see that *** the + on Ed Reed side dealing with ball skills/playmaker ability


Both are great Safeties... Like I said.. It all depends on what you prefer... I feel like its no right or wrong answer... Troy P make plays and Ed Reed make plays.
[/quote]
Its not all about TD's also, field position for your O counts too and on a few of Ed's returns, he was tackle near the opponents goaline so what you have to do is look at career interception return yards and that will tell the tail of it right there. Plus, it's a big difference in 6 TDs returned compared to 2 in that statistical category so I have to disagree with you saying it's not really a difference in the numbers b/c it is, Ed triples Troy in that category.

[atljbo]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1304968674' post='684177']
Its not all about TD's also, field position for your O counts too and on a few of Ed's returns, he was tackle near the opponents goaline so what you have to do is look at career interception return yards and that will tell the tail of it right there. Plus, it's a big difference in 6 TDs returned compared to 2 in that statistical category so I have to disagree with you saying it's not really a difference in the numbers b/c it is, Ed triples Troy in that category.
[/quote]


You are getting me wrong... When i say Ed Reed ball skills is ELITE over Troy P's Great Ball skills... Elite includes his return ability after the int... So i cant give him more points for that.. Thats included. (reed also have a year over Troy)

Regardless.. Both are equally great.. Their is no right or wrong answer... Both are great playmakers in their own way... If you prefer Ed Reed i understand why... If the nest guy prefer Troy P... I understand why also.

[ravensfan160]

Troy did just win defensive player of the year. I don't think he deserved it but he still won it. That fact alone is enough reason for me for him to be rated the best safety.

That said, I think he really started to break down towards the end of the season and the playoffs. As beat up as Ed is playing free safety, just think of all the punishment Troy's body has taken over the years. I'm hopeful that Troy will start to fade in the coming years.

Ed can protect himself and prolong his career by avoiding contact by playing deep center field. The Steelers need Troy to be that 8th man in the box a lot so his body will continue to take a pounding. Just look what happened to Bob Sanders.

[berad]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1304968674' post='684177']
Its not all about TD's also, field position for your O counts too and on a few of Ed's returns, he was tackle near the opponents goaline so what you have to do is look at career interception return yards and that will tell the tail of it right there. Plus, it's a big difference in 6 TDs returned compared to 2 in that statistical category so I have to disagree with you saying it's not really a difference in the numbers b/c it is, Ed triples Troy in that category.
[/quote]

Agree with every single thing you said. Career INT yards...

Reed: 1438

Polamalu: 328 [i](Reed got more than that in 2004 alone)[/i]

Factor in that Ed Reed has seven INTs in nine post-season games when compared to Polamalu's three picks over ten... That's a huge difference. And this isn't even factoring in that Ed Reed is a punt blocking / returning beast.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1304964913' post='684147']
Not trying to be a smart ***.. But at the end of the day Ed Reed have 6 career return ints to the crib to Troy P's 2... Thats not alot to separate them... Plus i see that *** the + on Ed Reed side dealing with ball skills/playmaker ability


Both are great Safeties... Like I said.. It all depends on what you prefer... I feel like its no right or wrong answer... Troy P make plays and Ed Reed make plays.
[/quote]
Just a small correction, but if we're discussing career INT TDs, then with Reed's TD Vs Miami in the 2008 Playoffs and Polamalu's TD against the Ravens during the same Postseason, both of those numbers should be increased by one. And actually, it's quite a bit of separation. Consider this. Rod Woodson's 12 TDs are the most in NFL history. And if not for the unnecessary penalty during Reed's 100+ yard INT Vs the Jets, Reed would've been credited with 8 instead of 7, placing him at 7th best in the all time rankings. So Polamalu's 3 seem much more common when evaluating his totals by the same standards. To put things in perspective, Antrel Rolle would've finished with the same amount in a single game had it not been for a penalty. That's not to take anything away from Troy's skill set. He's always around the ball. But when one player more than doubles another's output in a specific category, it's a pretty significant difference.

[wayne]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1304969939' post='684187']
You are getting me wrong... When i say Ed Reed ball skills is ELITE over Troy P's Great Ball skills... Elite includes his return ability after the int... So i cant give him more points for that.. Thats included. (reed also have a year over Troy)

Regardless.. Both are equally great.. Their is no right or wrong answer... Both are great playmakers in their own way... If you prefer Ed Reed i understand why... If the nest guy prefer Troy P... I understand why also.
[/quote]
I hear ya but I guess what most Ed Reed fans feel like is that Ed can/has give you what Troy gives you and more. If Ed was in Troy scheme ( healthy Ed ) he could be doing what Troy does and more but if you Put Troy in Eds scheme, he couldn't do it. Lets see Troy get moved to FS and win DPOY like Ed has won it at the current position Troy is playing right now which is SS.

[nevermore_52]

The moment the football leaves the QBs hands and Ed's on the field your lookin to find him with the expectation he is goin to be in on the play so i guess its the same as every comparison of two players, whos better at what?? but if Ed had multiple titles like hairball does this wouldnt be an argument i feel

[SuRihtanil]

Wig is good no doubt he plays the run and inside the box well. However, Reed sets NFL records, and there is no sign of him stopping yet either. When teams play the ravens, and they know Reed is healthy they alter passing attack just because of him. Wig... not so much, just saying.

The steelers D as a whole assist in helping Wig be great, but Ed Reed makes the entire defense of ravens great. See what I mean there?

[52GOAT]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1304526581' post='681365']
So many that they probably count as 5% of the threads on this forum.

Troy IS better for the record. lol
[/quote]
Let's ask Greg Jennings

[thewarden86]

[quote name='52GOAT' timestamp='1305552624' post='686949']
Let's ask Greg Jennings
[/quote]

How would he know? He played the Pittsburgh Steelers in the SB, not the Ravens. I think it's been established that Troy was still hurting in that game.

Instead you should just ask Flacco.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1305567055' post='687031']
How would he know? He played the Pittsburgh Steelers in the SB, not the Ravens. I think it's been established that Troy was still hurting in that game.

Instead you should just ask Flacco.
[/quote]
I did....he said he hates that damn guy!

[stopsizzle55]

im the biggest reed fan there is but its interesting to see the lack of him in steelers games. when was the last time he had a big play against them? or any team in a huge situation. because i can remember right off the top of my head polamalu with the strip sack this past year and the int return td to seal the 08 playoffs against us. just something to think about. and for the record i think reed is better because i would rather have an int td than a 3 yd tackle for loss