Dmase

[ravens rule]

so next year does mason start or play on third downs/ slot type because no way do i want two receiver sets with him and boldin on passing downs that just doesn't scare defenses

[lgcs27288]

If our new wide receivers can beat him out, then yes to slot receiver.

To add to that, I personally see us running more 3 wr sets this year. Boldin and Mason being the 1 and 2 and Smith being the slot.

[Perfekt]

It will be Boldin, Mason, an then whoever the next best reciever is. I really dont see Smith getting much time in Cams system. If he does I will be shocked.

[Romo Ravens]

I'm on the fence about Mason. I respect him and love him for everything he's done for this team, but at the same time I want either Smith, Doss and Reed to get a lot more playing time. At this point after the draft I wouldn't mind if he retired. Either that or he needs to be the number three, although I don't think his ego will allow him to do so

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Perfekt' timestamp='1304365826' post='679960']
It will be Boldin, Mason, an then whoever the next best reciever is. I really dont see Smith getting much time in Cams system. If he does I will be shocked.
[/quote]
He better get significant playing time with Cam, or our offense is gonna be the exact same as it was last year. And then Cam loses his job. Cam's job here hinges on his ability to get the ball to Boldin and Smith.

[Perfekt]

I feel that we should put the best players on the field period. If another player out performs Mason then he should give up his spot but I dont see any player taken his spot. Hes just to smart an consistant.


This is Cam were talking about the same guy who thinks audibles are overrated. Even with his terrible play calling tho we should be fine as long as we can keep the Oline healthy. Im praying Gaither comes back.

[Ed_Reed20]

Mason's role [i]has[/i] to be reduced next season.

He's most effective running comebacks, curls and quick outs but those routes absolutely can't be staples of the passing game for yet another season. They aren't really conducive to big plays. Not surprisingly, Football Outsiders calculated that Mase had the third-lowest YAC percentage of starting WRs last season.

It's time for Q to get a bigger slice of the pie and the young WRs and TEs to catch more passes.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1304366955' post='679973']
Mason's role [i]has[/i] to be reduced next season.

He's most effective running comebacks, curls and quick outs but those routes absolutely can't be staples of the passing game for yet another season. They aren't really conducive to big plays. Not surprisingly, Football Outsiders calculated that Mase had the third-lowest YAC percentage of starting WRs last season.

[b]It's time for Q to get a bigger slice of the pie and the young WRs and TEs to catch more passes.[/b][/quote]

i agree with this!

~Mili

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

When we only have two WRs on the field, we cannot let those two be Boldin and Mason. They bring too many similarities to the table. We need Smith, with his speed and his big-play potential to be one of them.

Like Romo said, I really, really appreciate Mason, the fact that he's produced well for years on an offense which, until recently, hasn't been anywhere near as productive. We need the younger WRs to get more time now, even the guys which have only really been camp bodies like Marcus Smith, Harper and Hardy. Otherwise we'll be stuck with the illusion that we constantly need new WRs.

[FerrariFan87]

I want us in 3 WR sets at least 65% of passing plays next season.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1304366955' post='679973']
Mason's role [i]has[/i] to be reduced next season.

He's most effective running comebacks, curls and quick outs but those routes absolutely can't be staples of the passing game for yet another season. They aren't really conducive to big plays. Not surprisingly, Football Outsiders calculated that Mase had the third-lowest YAC percentage of starting WRs last season.

It's time for Q to get a bigger slice of the pie and the young WRs and TEs to catch more passes.
[/quote]

The problem with that is, Mason at least on the surface, is still very productive. As long as he's still apart of this I believe Cam will try to get him his touches.

I think that's what went wrong with Mason, Housh and Boldin last year. It was like well, Boldin is the new guy, lets force feed him to get him and Joe on the same page. Ok it's been about 4 games and Mason isn't getting a lot of touches, lets get him the ball to keep him from feeling like he's not be used. Then you have Housh who came 1 week before the Jets game. So it's like well once we get Boldin, Heap, and Mason their touches, we'll get Housh in the game.

I agree 100% that Q and the young guys need to get more action, but as long as Mason is still reliable, i believe Cam and Joe will get him the ball.

However if guys like Smith, Reed, Doss, Harper, and Pitta really perform well in TC and preseason, i think they will force their way in the line. As you said, there is no way that curls and dig routes can be the staple of our offense anymore. We now have speed, versatility, and run after the catch ability from both the WR and TE position.

People say there is not more excuses for Flacco, well there will be no excuses for this coaching staff and front office. If Mase isn't getting it done, or he just isn't giving you what you need, and you feel a David Reed can, then Reed should play.

[Perfekt]

I will agree with yall in wanting to see more of our youth but if our youth isnt as consistant as Mason then its not worth the risk. At the end of the day the best players should be the ones on the field. As far as the 3rd WR sets I would much rather see 2 TE sets then those. Reason being we can get more blocking help plus also have additional options in the passing game. Dont take that the wrong way I still want to see them just want to see our TEs used more this year.

[ravensfan160]

I think Mase started to show his age near the end of the seasons last year. Unfortunately, his personality doesn't lend well to him getting fewer snaps. It should be interesting to see what happens.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1304368096' post='679998']
I want us in 3 WR sets at least 65% of passing plays next season.
[/quote]

I think you'll see a lot of 3 WRs, but you'll also see a lot of 1WR-3TE sets, or 2WR-2TE sets, 3WR-1TE sets, and even 4WR and 5WR sets. I really think that Cam will open things up this year.

The Ravens are expecting a lot out of Joe this year, but they have to allow Joe to take control of this offense and get the ball into the hands of the guys that can make plays for him.

Flacco has proved to be smart with the ball and his decision making with his 27-6 TD-Int ratio. Getting all of these young guys involved in the offense can only help, not only them, but Flacco and this team as well.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Perfekt' timestamp='1304368456' post='680008']
I will agree with yall in wanting to see more of our youth but if our youth isnt as consistant as Mason then its not worth the risk. At the end of the day the best players should be the ones on the field. As far as the 3rd WR sets I would much rather see 2 TE sets then those. Reason being we can get more blocking help plus also have additional options in the passing game. Dont take that the wrong way I still want to see them just want to see our TEs used more this year.
[/quote]

I understand what you're saying, but really the only way to get more consistent is for players to get on the field. Guys we've had in the past like DWill showed us flashes of what they could be, but never getting on the field means guys will never get experience in game and pressure situations. For instance, a lot of people talked about how TJ blew it in Pittsburgh, but not a lot of people talked about the fact that he'd only ever been to the postseason once before, back in '05 with the Bengals. I think the pressure of playing in Pittsburgh got to him, because he just wasn't used to it. The same thing will happen to rookies. They need to be allowed onto the field early and often to be allowed to make plays, make mistakes, and learn from both, so they can develop into the best players they can be. And as to consistency, sometimes it can be overrated. Sure Mason almost always grabs the ball, but he can't really do anything with it once he has it unless the coverage has broken down. Our YAC yards were among the worst in the NFL last year. If you watched the Superbowl, Jordy Nelson was the perfect example of a young receiver. He dropped at least two or three easy balls in the biggest game of his career, but still hauled in 9 passes for 140 yards and a TD. Mason over his career adds about 3 YAC yards, even when he was young. Nelson averaged 5.9 YAC yards this season, and 4.5 over his career. That's the big difference.

[Suggs Package]

Personally I would like us to use more 2 TE sets, a TE at H-Back, and TE lined up as wide-outs. I still wouldn't mind us using Boldin and Mason, but most of us forget that Heap is our biggest playmaker at receiver in terms of yard per catch. I say we exploit those mismatches more at TE and let Mason and Boldin continue to work underneath. Plus Flacco seems to be more comfortable throwing in the middle of the field with bigger targets. Plus a potential offense with Heap, Dickson, and Pitta on the field at the same time seems very scary if they live up to their potential.

Mason is our bread and butter 3rd down WR so maybe he should be the 3rd WR, but someone has to beat him out first. For now I think there will be no true 3rd but the 3rd guy will be based on game situation. Doss in the red zone, Smith in long passing situations, and Reed in hurry up offense/short passing.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1304368373' post='680005']
The problem with that is, Mason at least on the surface, is still very productive. As long as he's still apart of this I believe Cam will try to get him his touches.

I think that's what went wrong with Mason, Housh and Boldin last year. It was like well, Boldin is the new guy, lets force feed him to get him and Joe on the same page. Ok it's been about 4 games and Mason isn't getting a lot of touches, lets get him the ball to keep him from feeling like he's not be used. Then you have Housh who came 1 week before the Jets game. So it's like well once we get Boldin, Heap, and Mason their touches, we'll get Housh in the game.

I agree 100% that Q and the young guys need to get more action, but as long as Mason is still reliable, i believe Cam and Joe will get him the ball.

However if guys like Smith, Reed, Doss, Harper, and Pitta really perform well in TC and preseason, i think they will force their way in the line. As you said, there is no way that curls and dig routes can be the staple of our offense anymore. We now have speed, versatility, and run after the catch ability from both the WR and TE position.

People say there is not more excuses for Flacco, well there will be no excuses for this coaching staff and front office. If Mase isn't getting it done, or he just isn't giving you what you need, and you feel a David Reed can, then Reed should play.
[/quote]

Mason wasn't productive in the play-offs though. Brandon Flowers and Ike Taylor sat on his routes in both games and he couldn't get any separation.

Forcing targets to WR to keep him happy isn't the way to go. The most talented players should get their looks, like you said. It irked me to no end watching Houshmandzadeh and Mason combine for more screens than Boldin got last season.

Mason isn't unreliable but with what he brings to the table, he shouldn't be a split end or flanker anymore.

I agree completely with you last point.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1304369013' post='680026']
...most of us forget that Heap is our biggest playmaker at receiver in terms of yard per catch.
[/quote]

I think you're forgetting about Rice. Also, he's not the player he was even in '07 but Boldin is still better after the catch than Heap in my opinion.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Perfekt' timestamp='1304368456' post='680008']
I will agree with yall in wanting to see more of our youth but if our youth isnt as consistant as Mason then its not worth the risk. At the end of the day the best players should be the ones on the field. As far as the 3rd WR sets I would much rather see 2 TE sets then those. Reason being we can get more blocking help plus also have additional options in the passing game. Dont take that the wrong way I still want to see them just want to see our TEs used more this year.
[/quote]

I think it goes back to Value, that seems to be my most used word because of the draft. But it's all about the Value in the offense. Yes because of what he's done over his career, and what he's still able to do, Mason will probably be better then all of our young guys. But what's the value in having Mason run those dig and comeback routes?

I don't think anyone is saying he needs to be factored out of the offense completely or even pushed to the 3rd WR just because. However what does need to happen imo is we need to have different packages to utilize, the different still sets of the guys we have.

So what if people expect you to attack them vertical just because you have Dickson, Reed, and Smith in the game at the same time. If they know it, still make them stop it. But don't have Mason running those deep routes that he can't get separation on, and it forces Joe to hold the ball longer then he plans. Don't have him in those jump ball situations.

Have him work the middle of the field, if you send him deep, send him deep off a route run by Smith or Reed, where you're attacking a single safety and forcing him to make a decision on who to cover.

Mason runs really good routes, so he should be used to stretch the field wide not deep.

[Dubs]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1304369013' post='680026']
Personally I would like us to use more 2 TE sets, a TE at H-Back, and TE lined up as wide-outs. I still wouldn't mind us using Boldin and Mason, but most of us forget that Heap is our biggest playmaker at receiver in terms of yard per catch. I say we exploit those mismatches more at TE and let Mason and Boldin continue to work underneath. Plus Flacco seems to be more comfortable throwing in the middle of the field with bigger targets. Plus a potential offense with Heap, Dickson, and Pitta on the field at the same time seems very scary if they live up to their potential.

Mason is our bread and butter 3rd down WR so maybe he should be the 3rd WR, but someone has to beat him out first. For now I think there will be no true 3rd but the 3rd guy will be based on game situation. Doss in the red zone, Smith in long passing situations, and Reed in hurry up offense/short passing.
[/quote]


Agree fully, I have a hard time seeing any of the rooks beating out Mason, he still does offer alot..but we do need to change up our packages and throw in players to fit the play/scheme, which may mean no Mason or Boldin on the field

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1304369194' post='680028']
Mason wasn't productive in the play-offs though. Brandon Flowers and Ike Taylor sat on his routes in both games and he couldn't get any separation.

Forcing targets to WR to keep him happy isn't the way to go. The most talented players should get their looks, like you said. It irked me to no end watching Houshmandzadeh and Mason combine for more screens than Boldin got last season.

Mason isn't unreliable but with what he brings to the table, he shouldn't be a split end or flanker anymore.

I agree completely with you last point.
[/quote]

Oh I agree 100%. We shouldn't force anything to him, but until now i don't think we felt really good about our WR corp. Not saying we did or should've catered to Mason. I just think it's a situation where, we felt Mason was one of our best options and we tried to get him involved.

Last year we had pretty much the same WRs, and because of his injury Stallworth found it hard to really crack the lineup. However now we have talented guy that can bring something different then what Mason can.

I personally think Mason will have to take the approach of, hey, I'm not catching a lot of passes but this team is better and our chances are great this year. Will he be able to do it? I'm not sure.

I would love to see someone just outperform Mason to the point where it's like a passing of the torch. From a WR standpoint Boldin is the man so if anyone is force feed it should be him.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1304368944' post='680023']
I understand what you're saying, but really the only way to get more consistent is for players to get on the field. Guys we've had in the past like DWill showed us flashes of what they could be, but never getting on the field means guys will never get experience in game and pressure situations. For instance, a lot of people talked about how TJ blew it in Pittsburgh, but not a lot of people talked about the fact that he'd only ever been to the postseason once before, back in '05 with the Bengals. I think the pressure of playing in Pittsburgh got to him, because he just wasn't used to it. The same thing will happen to rookies. They need to be allowed onto the field early and often to be allowed to make plays, make mistakes, and learn from both, so they can develop into the best players they can be. And as to consistency, sometimes it can be overrated. Sure Mason almost always grabs the ball, but he can't really do anything with it once he has it unless the coverage has broken down. Our YAC yards were among the worst in the NFL last year. If you watched the Superbowl, Jordy Nelson was the perfect example of a young receiver. He dropped at least two or three easy balls in the biggest game of his career, but still hauled in 9 passes for 140 yards and a TD. Mason over his career adds about 3 YAC yards, even when he was young. Nelson averaged 5.9 YAC yards this season, and 4.5 over his career. That's the big difference.
[/quote]

I agree with getting these guys playing time. I look at Harper for example. In the preseason Harper has consistently shown the ability to create separation and get his body between the defender and the ball. However, he has a couple drops and because his sample size is so small, people look at him in a negative light.

If given the opportunity to produce in game action and he can catch more then he drops then he's an asset. It's just like T.O. That guys usually has about 16 or 17 drops a season, so he's known as a guy with poor hands. However he catches 60-85 passes a year with 7-10 TDs. So do you take that 1 dropped pass a game in exchange for 4-5 catches a game and maybe a TD?

If guys like Harper, Reed, Doss, and Harper don't get legit opportunities to showcase their talents, we could lose out on some guys that could really help us get to that next level.

[RavenDude11]

MAson is the best route runner on this team and has the best hands. Why would anybody think he's not a productive WR? He's not a situational player who comes in for a couple of plays. He will get a lot of burn this year. Torrey Smith on the other hand is situational player who will play if anything on the outside to keep safeties over the top. Rarely will u see him in the slot.

D.Reed is another player I think will get a lot more burn this year now that he has some experience in the Ravens system. But as far as lineups go I think Mason and Boldin will be on the field the most with Mason playing the slot role a lot more. In fact I wouldnt be surprised if we see a lot of Mason and Torrey on the outside with Boldin in the slot this year.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1304369947' post='680043']
Oh I agree 100%. We shouldn't force anything to him, but until now i don't think we felt really good about our WR corp. Not saying we did or should've catered to Mason. I just think it's a situation where, we felt Mason was one of our best options and we tried to get him involved.

Last year we had pretty much the same WRs, and because of his injury Stallworth found it hard to really crack the lineup. However now we have talented guy that can bring something different then what Mason can.

I personally think Mason will have to take the approach of, hey, I'm not catching a lot of passes but this team is better and our chances are great this year. Will he be able to do it? I'm not sure.

I would love to see someone just outperform Mason to the point where it's like a passing of the torch. From a WR standpoint Boldin is the man so if anyone is force feed it should be him.
[/quote]

To your first two paragraphs, agreed.

I'm not sure if he'll be able to swallow his pride either. Even worse, I'm unsure if the coaching staff will limit his snaps and plays designed to get him the ball.

I hope someone challenges him too.

As for Boldin, I don't expect him to catch 90+ balls but he has to sniff at least 80 next season.

[Milton145]

I've said it 1,000 times, Mason is one of my favorite players in the NFL, but if Smith, Doss, or Reed outperform him in Training Camp, then he should lower than said receiver on the depth chart. If he isn't happy with that then he was BSing about winning a SB is his top priority. I don't want him to retire just yet because I want him to feel the glory of winning a SB, but if playing time and numbers are a bigger concern then he isn't thinking like a true Raven.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RavenDude11' timestamp='1304370764' post='680056']
Why would anybody think he's not a productive WR?
[/quote]

Because he wasn't when the team needed him most last season.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1304370790' post='680057']
To your first two paragraphs, agreed.

I'm not sure if he'll be able to swallow his pride either. Even worse, I'm unsure if the coaching staff will limit his snaps and plays designed to get him the ball.

I hope someone challenges him too.

As for Boldin, I don't expect him to catch 90+ balls but he has to sniff at least 80 next season.
[/quote]

Yea i don't think Boldin will catch 90+ either, and I agree he definitely needs more touches.

I know teams pay him a lot of attention, but Boldin had 9 games last season where he had 3 or less catches. In 6 of those 9 games he had less then 3 catches. That's unacceptable imo.

In the first 4 games of the season last year, Boldin had 27 catches. Over the last 12 games of the regular season, Boldin had a total of 37. That's just unacceptable in every way.

If those numbers in 12 games are a product of teams doubling him, then someone else has to step up and either take advantage of all the attention Boldin gets, or help free him up by taking attention away from him.

Mason did a good job of taking advantage of all the attention paid to Boldin, but because they are the same type WR it didn't really have a large impact and as you said he couldn't do it when we needed it most.

[Raven07]

i see the ravens utilizing both Tandon AND Torrey, in a sort of rotation, and in certain situations (as of right now) without any training camp analysis from people and coaches alike, i cannot make a fairly accurate depiction as to whos playing where, but just by looking at collgiate tape on these two players, i can see the ravens rotating each of them in on certain situations. Foe expample, say the ravens are calling for a deep passing play, this is where i see Boldin, and Torrey lining up on either each side of flacco or side by side kinda like in a double set formation with Mason the opposite side of the field, because of the type of reciever Torrey is (speedster with excellent hands... ideal for a Deep threat ,along with boldin)

With Tandon, i see him being roatated in not only on special teams as a return man but also as a slot reciever (beginning the season with him being worked in more and more as the season wears on), providing flacco with a Big physical reciever that goes up makes those tough catches over the middle of the football field, WITH the occasional deep fly route just to mix it up a little and so defenses wont be able to que in on situational planning....like "ok they're bringing this guy in now, theyre doing this play" type thing with Mason playing on the outside of eiter doss or Torrey or vice versus, lininng both rookies up together with the veterans lining up side by side, instead of mixing the veteran WR's with the rookies (which i personally feel mixing the veterans with the rookies, is the teams bet choice, so defenses resepect both sides of flacco )


Guess you could insert Torrey in the slot, to mix it up (like i said above) and so that defenses dont que on him and our planning. All in all i see

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1304373895' post='680120']
Yea i don't think Boldin will catch 90+ either, and I agree he definitely needs more touches.

I know teams pay him a lot of attention, but Boldin had 9 games last season where he had 3 or less catches. In 6 of those 9 games he had less then 3 catches. That's unacceptable imo.

In the first 4 games of the season last year, Boldin had 27 catches. Over the last 12 games of the regular season, Boldin had a total of 37. That's just unacceptable in every way.

If those numbers in 12 games are a product of teams doubling him, then someone else has to step up and either take advantage of all the attention Boldin gets, or help free him up by taking attention away from him.

Mason did a good job of taking advantage of all the attention paid to Boldin, but because they are the same type WR it didn't really have a large impact and as you said he couldn't do it when we needed it most.
[/quote]

Those are some pathetic numbers.

Even if teams are paying extra attention to him, the OC has to design plays to get him the ball. Not once last season did I see Boldin go in motion and catch a screen on the run like he frequently did as a Cardinal.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1304370790' post='680057']
To your first two paragraphs, agreed.

I'm not sure if he'll be able to swallow his pride either. Even worse, I'm unsure if the coaching staff will limit his snaps and plays designed to get him the ball.

I hope someone challenges him too.

As for Boldin, I don't expect him to catch 90+ balls but he has to sniff at least 80 next season.
[/quote]

I for one want Q to catch 100 balls and get 10 TD's and make another Pro Bowl. I think adding Smith and Doss to the equation will really help him catch a lot of underneath passes which will add up extremely quickly