Merged......Jimmy Smith

[JO_75]

Foxworth comes back, we have Webb, and most likely out of Wilson and Carr Wilson will be staying a Raven. Now we add Jimmy Smith to our Corner Depth.. awesome.

What's more realistic, Smith competing with Foxworth for # 1, or Smith competing with Wilson, and Webb for the # 2 spot on the chart along with the nickel position?

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1304051895' post='673779']
Unless we trade up, I don't see it happening because many considered him the 3rd best WR in the draft, and Baldwin was taken ahead by KC. So I expect him to go very soon, and also since the Rams have a dier need for a WR who can stretch the field, just like us.

[i]Torrey[/i] Smith btw.
[/quote]

Did you see Ponder or Locker going as high? Did you see the Prince dropping down as far? Did you see Fairley dropping to the Lions? Imo it is very possible that Smith will still be on the board for the Ravens in the second round, because once the draft plays out things get really crazy. Will we select him, who knows.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1304052429' post='673794']
Foxworth comes back, we have Webb, and most likely out of Wilson and Carr Wilson will be staying a Raven. Now we add Jimmy Smith to our Corner Depth.. awesome.

What's more realistic, Smith competing with Foxworth for # 1, or Smith competing with Wilson, and Webb for the # 2 spot on the chart along with the nickel position?
[/quote]

Early on Smith competing with Web, Carr, Wilson for nickle duty, maybe even #2. However in 08 Flacco was supposed to be the #3 QB no matter what, so if he takes that field and impresses early, and he impresses in preseason he could definitely see the field a lot.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1304051882' post='673778']
This is a value pick in the first round for a guy that could be one of the premium, cornerbacks in the NFL. I know all the coverage is over for tonight but the draft is not over. There are still 6 more rounds and at the moment 9 more picks for the Ravens.

The Ravens made their team much better with this selection and that is what you wanna do in the 1st round. Just because pass rush is a need for us, doesn't mean you reach in the 1st round for a less value guy just because he fits a need. That's why the Ravens are so good at drafting because they are true to their board.

Most of those guys you named that are still on the board are still on the board for a reason. Because they are second round talent guys, who the Ravens would have reached for.

As far as OT being a need, well we don't know that for sure. Because of the lock out the Ravens couldn't have any contact with players, thus no new news on players have come out. For all we know the Ravens have every intention of bring back Gaither, moving Oher back to RT, moving Yanda back to RG and drafting a young center. That would improve our Oline and it'd get back to being a strength like in 08 and 09 imo.

We just don't know what the thinking of the Ravens FO is, I respect you opinion, but i think you're wrong.
[/quote]
Well I really don't think Jimmy is going to nullify the lack of pass rush. In the playoffs, especially nowadays, if you have a glaring hole, like a lack of pass rush for example, someone will expose it and beat you for it. Lately, the teams that have been winning championships are teams with very, very few needs. I see more complete teams winning championships nowadays, even if they don't go out and pick the best, highest valued player available.

Also, the fundamentals of football remind us that the line of scrimmage has a large effect on the outcomes of games. In other words, it's so much easier to help the secondary without addressing it very much than it is to help the O and D lines. If we had a speed rusher opposite Suggs and a healthy Foxworth back in the lineup, I think the secondary would do just fine without Jimmy. Of course we'll never know at this point, but I would find that hard to argue against.

And yes, I know tackle may not be a need for the reasons you mentioned. However, as easy as it is to go out and say that the team has every intention of bringing Gaither back, it is just as easy to say that they don't have that intention, whether it be due to the money we need to pay Ngata and others or something.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1304052429' post='673794']
Foxworth comes back, we have Webb, and most likely out of Wilson and Carr Wilson will be staying a Raven. Now we add Jimmy Smith to our Corner Depth.. awesome.

What's more realistic, Smith competing with Foxworth for # 1, or Smith competing with Wilson, and Webb for the # 2 spot on the chart along with the nickel position?
[/quote]
I agree, I think we now have awesome depth at CB. I'm just worried about how far it will take us.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1304052474' post='673796']
Did you see Ponder or Locker going as high? Did you see the Prince dropping down as far? Did you see Fairley dropping to the Lions? Imo it is very possible that Smith will still be on the board for the Ravens in the second round, because once the draft plays out things get really crazy. Will we select him, who knows.
[/quote]
First off, I'm not the least bit surprised at Locker going 8. I personally think he's going to be the best QB out of this entire draft class.

Secondly, nothing surprises me about the draft anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if Torrey was available that late, but all I said was I don't predict it.

[Grapple Raven]

Well a CB isn't going to help keep ya QB upright,and Flacco can't throw if he is lying on the ground,lol! I really hope Jimmy Smith will be worth the pick. It was just torture to sit there tonight and see all that talent just pass us by when we have needs in those areas too... hope there are some diamonds in the rough out there! Looking forward to tomorrow night!!! Go Ravens!!!

[gilgamesh]

Not addressing a need in the first round doesn't mean you aren't going to at all. Ozzie will get his chances with 8(?) more picks. No need to hate on the pick for that. You sort of assume that we will do nothing else this draft, or think that there are not other worthy OL, WR, pass rusher in the draft. Also, addressing a need in the first round doesn't necessarily mean you actually fixed the problem. Not a big fan of Sherrod, Carimi, Torrey, or even Heyward, so I personally don't think they help that much. Smith's a talented guy, and Ozzie obviously values him more than any other that were available.

[The King]

People talk about taking a pass rusher, but if we have a dearth of talented corners, all of whom can win matchups one on one, then we can afford to blitz more often and more creatively in order to create pressure. If we're only ever rushing four guys then we need elite talent at pass rusher, but if you blitz and bring five or six then you can work with less talent. Plus, there are still pass rushers in the draft.

Maybe CB wasn't our greatest position of need, but when there's a top 10 talent like Jimmy Smith on the board that late in the first, you can't pass it up. Bowers was a talent worthy of a first round pick still on the board for us, but his knee is too much of a concern. There's still time for other positions of need. As for CB, that should now be taken care of.

[1/28/01]

Good lord....this was round one....one!

[Bltravens]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1304052429' post='673794']
Foxworth comes back, we have Webb, and most likely out of Wilson and Carr Wilson will be staying a Raven. Now we add Jimmy Smith to our Corner Depth.. awesome.

What's more realistic, Smith competing with Foxworth for # 1, or Smith competing with Wilson, and Webb for the # 2 spot on the chart along with the nickel position?
[/quote]
WHy would Carr or Wilson resign with us now? Smith is going to be playing from day 1 and Foxworth has a 28 mil contract so I doubt he's going to be playing the nickel. I really really doubt Wilson or Carr resigns, Carr already expressed that he wanted to be a starter somewhere.

This is the second straight year we took a gamble on a top 10-15 talent and Smiths off field stuff makes Kindle's DUI look pedestrian. Ozzie better have done serious homework on Smith because swinging and missing on Kindle/Smith in back to back years will cripple the organization.

[Militant X 1]

Foxworth, Smith, Webb and Resign Wilson

~Mili

[BloodRaven]

Time will tell if Smith is the next Asomugha, or the next Cromartie.

[Militant X 1]

in reference to Smith....Pagano said;

[i]"We got your back and you have our back ok? Just plan on every week matching up with their best! That's why we got you ok? We've have elite shutdown corners here in the past and we just got the next great one! The next great Ravens cover corner. You're gonna match up with everybody's finest alright? So get ready to go to work alright? [/i]

the Ravens coaching staff is EXCITED about Jimmy Smith. They all are saying that we have a "Shutdown Corner!"

for all of you JS haters.....leave the kid alone! most of you cats in here are already crucifying the kid and he just became a Raven. smh!

Go get'em Jimmy!

~Mili

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1304053068' post='673815']
Well I really don't think Jimmy is going to nullify the lack of pass rush. In the playoffs, especially nowadays, if you have a glaring hole, like a lack of pass rush for example, someone will expose it and beat you for it. Lately, the teams that have been winning championships are teams with very, very few needs. I see more complete teams winning championships nowadays, even if they don't go out and pick the best, highest valued player available.

Also, the fundamentals of football remind us that the line of scrimmage has a large effect on the outcomes of games. In other words, it's so much easier to help the secondary without addressing it very much than it is to help the O and D lines. If we had a speed rusher opposite Suggs and a healthy Foxworth back in the lineup, I think the secondary would do just fine without Jimmy. Of course we'll never know at this point, but I would find that hard to argue against.

And yes, I know tackle may not be a need for the reasons you mentioned. However, as easy as it is to go out and say that the team has every intention of bringing Gaither back, it is just as easy to say that they don't have that intention, whether it be due to the money we need to pay Ngata and others or something.
[/quote]

You are 100% correct the Ravens could get by without Jimmy Smith. However where you are wrong is the fact that Smith will help the overall defense pass rush included.

Everything you mentioned in your post speaks exactly to my point. [b]"Complete teams winning championships, even if they don't go out and select the best high value player available" [/b] well wouldn't it be safe to say that even though the Ravens didn't select a position of need in the 1st round which would have been pass rush, they could still address that position later in the draft?

Despite all the hype the draft is bigger then just the first round. Another thing I'll point out. Before last season, I can't speak for you, but many of us thought that the secondary was a huge need. Maybe people where screaming for a big physical cornerback. Sean Smith, Kyle Wilson, etc, and everytime Ozzie didn't upgrade that position with a high first round selection, people argued against it, much like you're doing now with the Jimmy Smith selection.

However now you look and people like yourself don't think the CB position is a big need anymore, why? We didn't draft any stud CBs, before tonight only one of our CBs was a Ravens draft pick. So what that means is Ozzie found other ways to improve that area of our defense until he could have the opportunity to get his hands of that elite level CB that everyone was screaming for over the years. Now I'm not saying he knew it would be Jimmy Smith, but he stayed patient over the years. We've been trying to upgrade that CB position since C-Mac left after 08. We tried with Fabian, Foxy, Carr, Webb, and now Wilson, but now of those guys flashed that legit lock down ability, but in the 2011 draft the Ravens believed they found that lock down guy so they took him.

Complete teams don't usually draft for need, and when they do you come away with a Kyle Boller, or Travis Taylor. Does it happen sometimes, sure, sometimes you draft for need and come away with a Joe Flacco. However often times great teams like the Ravens, Patriots, Steelers, Packers and other draft from a value stand point.

If the Ravens don't believe there's a legit guy who could upgrade their pass rush, they probably won't even select a OLB/DE or they'll take a flier on a late round guy. If that happens then Ozzie and company will do what they can to upgrade the pass rush via Free Agency or Trade. Just like Boldin, Mason, and Foxy, just like we attempted to do with Fabian, TJ, and Donte.

Improving your team needs from one year to another is a long process, it's not just the draft and it's certainly not just the 1st round of the draft.

My point with the whole OT thing is we don't know the Ravens mindset on that. We don't know how they feel about Gaither, so we don't know if that is a pressing need. Also, many of these OTs in this years draft aren't much better then Oher as a LT and the RTs aren't much better then Yanda, so how much would they actually improve out team. Just because a position is viewed as a need, and you select a player that plays that position, doesn't mean you've filled that need. At the end of the day those guy have to provide, or at least you have to believe that those guys will add great value to your team.

The same can be said and is true about Jimmy Smith, just because he's projected to be a shutdown corner doesn't mean he will be. However the Ravens felt that he was the player that would provide the most value to our team at that point in the draft and they took him. It's that simple imo.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1304053460' post='673822']
First off, I'm not the least bit surprised at Locker going 8. I personally think he's going to be the best QB out of this entire draft class.

Secondly, nothing surprises me about the draft anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if Torrey was available that late, but all I said was I don't predict it.
[/quote]

I don't know how my words were read, but i wasn't attack you or your comment, just simply asking you questions. You said with Smith being the 3rd rated WR, Baldwin being off the board and the Rams being in need of a speedy WR just as much as we, that you don't see Smith being there. I simply asked if you saw those things happening in the first round. Thats all

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Grapple Raven' timestamp='1304053982' post='673831']
Well a CB isn't going to help keep ya QB upright,and Flacco can't throw if he is lying on the ground,lol! I really hope Jimmy Smith will be worth the pick. It was just torture to sit there tonight and see all that talent just pass us by when we have needs in those areas too... hope there are some diamonds in the rough out there! Looking forward to tomorrow night!!! Go Ravens!!!
[/quote]

That's what being a good/great team year in and year out is about in the draft. Watching great talent pass you by because lesser teams need it more then you. So you either sit there and hope a few of the top guys on your board fall, or you give up a kings ransom for one great player like the Falcons did.

How many great players passed us by the years we got Ed Reed, Todd Heap, Haloti Ngata, Ray Lewis and Ben Grubbs. Looking back years later, how many guys that went before these players would you rather have instead of them right now. Not many i would assume. How many teams do you think are looking at the success of the Ravens in the first round and kick themselves years later because they had the chance to select the same talented players the Ravens did and could have done so with picks ahead of the Ravens?

The Ravens just selected a guy with top 10 talent, a guy who many people believe would have been the best CB in the draft if not for character concerns, and we got him at 27 because he made some mistakes when he was 19 years old.

If Smith turns into the shutdown guy we believe he'll be, years later nobody will care that he wasn't a "need" pick, we'll all just be glad to have him.

[flynismo]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1304048701' post='673669']<br />I was a Jimmy Smith hater, but I guess I can't do that anymore[/quote]

yes you can lol...i'll always be a chris chester and terrance cody hater; it's our god given right to be our own worst critics..

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1304058437' post='673873']<br />That's what being a good/great team year in and year out is about in the draft. Watching great talent pass you by because lesser teams need it more then you. So you either sit there and hope a few of the top guys on your board fall, or you give up a kings ransom for one great player like the Falcons did. <br /><br />How many great players passed us by the years we got Ed Reed, Todd Heap, Haloti Ngata, Ray Lewis and Ben Grubbs. Looking back years later, how many guys that went before these players would you rather have instead of them right now. Not many i would assume. How many teams do you think are looking at the success of the Ravens in the first round and kick themselves years later because they had the chance to select the same talented players the Ravens did and could have done so with picks ahead of the Ravens? <br /><br />The Ravens just selected a guy with top 10 talent, a guy who many people believe would have been the best CB in the draft if not for character concerns, and we got him at 27 because he made some mistakes when he was 19 years old. <br /><br />If Smith turns into the shutdown guy we believe he'll be, years later nobody will care that he wasn't a &quot;need&quot; pick, we'll all just be glad to have him.<br />[/quote]

CB not being a need is a big time misconception. We were 22nd in pass defense last year, this secondary needs all the help it can get.
Especially when we have what, two, CB under contract?

Before anyone gets their panties in a bundle, I realize that the lack of a pass rush did us no favors...but all I have to say is '3rd-and-19'.

[flynismo]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1304052429' post='673794']<br />Foxworth comes back, we have Webb, and most likely out of Wilson and Carr Wilson will be staying a Raven. Now we add Jimmy Smith to our Corner Depth.. awesome.<br /><br />What's more realistic, Smith competing with Foxworth for # 1, or Smith competing with Wilson, and Webb for the # 2 spot on the chart along with the nickel position?<br />[/quote]

this year Smith will fight for #2. Next year the dominance begins.

[flynismo]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1304053068' post='673815']In the playoffs, especially nowadays, if you have a glaring hole, someone will expose it and beat you for it.[/quote]


exactly! Like in the SB, where GB steamrolled over PIT pass rush and exploited their candy secondary!

[52Kia Kaha92]

i could not be happier..i dont even care we missed out on a fourth round pick..we have lots of picks and jimmy Smith is the 8th rated player on my board..i would have been happy if we traded UP for him..to get him at 27 is great..secretly i think ozzie wanted the tradition of us not picking at our original pick to continue ...i love smith and he takes us to a whole new level on defense..the things you can go if you have a guy tht can lockdown the field are great..pagano wants to bring the heat and i feel much better having jimmy smith out there than chris carr or lardarius "i cant cover garbage wideouts when it matters" Webb ( im a big believer in webb btw) ..Smith is my 8th rated player and is the best pure cover conrner in this class..i stated earlier in the year he struggled against the run..after watching a full game of his highlights i am not convinced he is bad, infact i think he is a very willing and good player against it..he goes up and gets amongst it and is a violent player...so physical with people and really does play like a raven.. he is a freakish player with great size and speed..i am so excited about this...!! now to trade up and land Justin houston and this defense is scary!!

[hhlowlow]

He is perfect for the ravens

[wayne]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1304058833' post='673877']
this year Smith will fight for #2. Next year the dominance begins.
[/quote]
Naw, listen to the vid on the home page as Mili already posted on this thread, Pagano literally told him to get ready b/c he will be matched on the #1 Wr every week. Now, common sense tells me hes going to have to earn it but I'm assuming Pagano is speaking in terms of Smith performing like they know he can which they feel he will to earn the #1Cb job.

[gabefergy]

I think Smith will prove pretty quickly that he will be our #1 CB. I hope we re-sign Wilson as well. Maybe Fox can restructure his deal, if not it wouldnt surprise me if we let him go in favor of Wilson. Smith and Wilson are better corners than Foxworth.

[neoi78]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1304061982' post='673897']
I think Smith will prove pretty quickly that he will be our #1 CB. I hope we re-sign Wilson as well. Maybe Fox can restructure his deal, if not it wouldnt surprise me if we let him go in favor of Wilson. Smith and Wilson are better corners than Foxworth.
[/quote]

I agree. I LOVE Wilson. Heart is the one word that comes to mind. Smith/Wilson=beast

[sflegend89]

This pick made the most sense imo.

We bring in the big physical corner we have desperately needed and he's got a set of wheels on him too. He's more agile and fluent than C-Mac, I think his best NFL comparison is Asomugha. They're both 6'2 210lbs, they like to put their hands on guys at the line of scrimmage and QB's stay away from their side of the field.

The way Pagano Welcomed him, it makes you think they know this guy is special. VERY Rarely is a rookie cb get told to get ready to lockdown the other teams best wr. I think a lot of teams slept on Jimmy Smith, I really thought the Eagles would snag him and he'd go on to be the next NFL shutdown corner along side Asante. Man am I happy he fell to us, this is the guy who shuts down Wallace for us. Great value that late in the 1st round, Now we just need a speedy wr, pass rusher, and OL.

[wayne]

[quote name='sflegend89' timestamp='1304064550' post='673914']
This pick made the most sense imo.

We bring in the big physical corner we have desperately needed and he's got a set of wheels on him too. He's more agile and fluent than C-Mac, I think his best NFL comparison is Asomugha. They're both 6'2 210lbs, they like to put their hands on guys at the line of scrimmage and QB's stay away from their side of the field.

The way Pagano Welcomed him, it makes you think they know this guy is special. VERY Rarely is a rookie cb get told to get ready to lockdown the other teams best wr. I think a lot of teams slept on Jimmy Smith, I really thought the Eagles would snag him and he'd go on to be the next NFL shutdown corner along side Asante. Man am I happy he fell to us, [b]this is the guy who shuts down Wallace[/b] for us. Great value that late in the 1st round, Now we just need a speedy wr, pass rusher, and OL.
[/quote]
Personally, I wouldn't want him covering Mike " Go Deep all the time " Wallace for majority of the game, use Smith vs Wr's that do it all, not just the deep ball b/c we have a few other speed cb's for that. If we play the Steelers, it's hard to say who I would want him on so I just say have him playing one side of the field and whoever comes that way is who he will cover but in crucial situations and downs, match him on who you see fit. Now, against a team like Colts or Texans, its a no brainer who I would want him to stick then but don't tired him out to stick people the enitre game who just go deep like Wallace.

[mgridda]

[quote name='63bru' timestamp='1304048527' post='673661']
I'll also go against the grain and say meh to this pick. Jimmy Smith will probably be good in a few years, but I just can't see a way that he makes an immediate impact. At best, he makes either Chris Carr or Josh Wilson expendable. So allow me to conclude with, meh.
[/quote]


You know, I felt the same way until a few hours before the draft where I learned that he only allowed 11 completions in man-to-man coverage (and Colorado reportedly mostly plays man-to-man) over the last two years. Moreover, only 1 of those 11 completions was for a first down.

Jimmy Smith is a once-in-a-decade type player, like Nnamdi Asomugha. He's not like Chris McAlister. Nnamadi is also 6'2". Nnamdi is also 210 lbs. He's an Asomugha clone, but he plays the run like Charles Woodson. The guy is a freak. He's a once in a decade player and we definitely went BPA with this pick. Cornerback was not a need at all. This is the BPA.

And in Ozzie we Trust. Needs can change from week to week. BPA is the way to go. The draft is an opportunity to add good players to your football team (within reason), not to patch up needs.

I am so happy with this pick. Cincinnati drafted AJ Green and have Ochocinco. The Falcons got Julio Jones to complement Roddy White in that high octane Falcons defense. Now the Ravens just injected a major boost to their defense and will also get Sergio Kindle back.

[mgridda]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1304065503' post='673917']
Personally, I wouldn't want him covering Mike " Go Deep all the time " Wallace for majority of the game, use Smith vs Wr's that do it all, not just the deep ball b/c we have a few other speed cb's for that. If we play the Steelers, it's hard to say who I would want him on so I just say have him playing one side of the field and whoever comes that way is who he will cover but in crucial situations and downs, match him on who you see fit. Now, against a team like Colts or Texans, its a no brainer who I would want him to stick then but don't tired him out to stick people the enitre game who just go deep like Wallace.
[/quote]

Josh Wilson is a perfect cover guy for Wallace.

The Steelers don't really have any receivers who can test Jimmy Smith. All that means is Jimmy just shut down one of their options and Ed Reed gets to free lance some more against Big Ben. I bet Ed Reed is really pumped about this pick. Josh Wilson and Chris Carr played great, but they did so within the system. Jimmy is the kind of guy we can leave on an island against Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson jr, Roddy White, Reggie Wayne, Julio Jones, etc and not worry about.

I bet we can see a lot more 8 man boxes and a lot more blitzing from the safeties because of this Jimmy Smith pick. To be honest I want to address the offense (since The Prophet Muhammad Wilkerson is off the board) with our second rounder because I don't see Paea reaching us. He'll probably fall to Denver who will gladly scoop him up.

If we get Torrey Smith and Jimmy Smith we'll have to give them a crime fighting nickname or something. The Smith brothers. One has "character issues" and the other is a "saint." Should get a tv show.