Joe Flacco: Leader Of Men

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1303793457' post='670690']
The interesting thing about his comments to me is, that the same style of offense he seems to be bashing Flacco for, is the same style of offense that made people fall in love with Tom Brady. Now granted Brady did win a SuperBowl or 2 in his first 3 years, but that, play to your defense and running game is how Brady won those rings.

Now i'm not saying Joe is Brady, but that "Flacco offense" that he makes fun out produced a dynasty for the Patriots, so i'll take that.
[/quote]
Good point, while I dont think it was the same extent Brady had Charlie Weiss superior (imo) system to work with. ALOT of people forget how elite the Patriots defense was in the 2003/2004 seasons. 2003 they were #1 in the league in points and yards.

[berad]

All I know is that if you can get Steve Mariucci to twitch his head like that, you know you've done something outlandish. The man is friends with and talks to Brett Favre, frequently...

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1303794485' post='670698']
Good point, while I dont think it was the same extent Brady had Charlie Weiss superior (imo) system to work with. ALOT of people forget how elite the Patriots defense was in the 2003/2004 seasons. 2003 they were #1 in the league in points and yards.
[/quote]

Brady also had a really strong Oline. I don't wanna get into the Cam and Joe talk because I'm in the minority in thinking that the offensive struggles were just as much the players as Cam.

Remember that Brady took over a team that was already expected to be playoff/ super bowl caliber. In his first 3 years, Flacco has been behind a pretty young Oline, who really are learning on the run just like Joe. I mean in 08' I remember Willy Williams and others in the media talking as bad about the Oline as humanly possible. I remember Mike Preston saying it didn't maker if Troy or Kyle started because whoever played behind this line would get killed. However they much like Flacco performed above expectation and from then on the pressure was on them to be great. They went from the absolute worse Oline, trying to protect a rookie QB, to what many fans were calling potentially one of the best Olines in the NFL, protecting a 2nd year QB destined for elite status.

It's so much easier for people to point the finger at not only Joe but any QB, however it takes much more effort to place blame on a Boldin who was mean to be the deciding factor for out Steelers games, and turned about to be just that but in a negative way. It's harder for people to see WRs open down field, but Flacco not having the confidence in his oline to hold the ball that split second longer, or the Oline giving up a sack to take us out of FG range in a 3 point game.

I know we've had much success in the last 3 years, but those NE teams were much better then our Ravens at this point, and it wasn't just Weis vs Cameron.

[Bltravens]

I mean Im perfectly fine with the way Joe plays QB now, we get him a legit vertical threat and we'll be fine. We're not built to go into games and just sling it and frankly Ozzie wouldnt have done his job if we were putting it all on Joe to win games. We win with defense, running the ball, and timely PA.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1303795361' post='670706']
I mean Im perfectly fine with the way Joe plays QB now, we get him a legit vertical threat and we'll be fine. We're not built to go into games and just sling it and frankly Ozzie wouldnt have done his job if we were putting it all on Joe to win games. We win with defense, running the ball, and timely PA.
[/quote]

Yea but the problem with that is that's not Cam Cameron style of offense. Cam is a heavy run, even heavier PA type OC. That's why we tend to see 2 sides to Cam. We see that creative/aggressive guy, then we see that guy who's not sure exactly how to sit on a lead without actually bringing the offense to a dead stop.

Like look at the Jets game, the first game of the season. The Ravens were pretty aggressive all night and attacked the Jets secondary including Reveis. Cam was able to find ways to create mismatches with Boldin and Housh, even though those guys were new. However in the playoffs you would think that Boldin, Housh and Flacco never played together at all. They just didn't look comfortable with the gameplan/play calling. Neither Housh or Boldin seemed to pick the ball up well coming out of Flacco's hand, timing seemed off. They just didn't look like they were on the same page.

I'm probably in the minority here, but i strongly believe that once Ray and Ed leave, mainly Ray, the offense will take off to new heights. I actually think our defense is holding our offense back. The reason i say that is because we play offense like we have a great dominate defense on the other side of the ball. When in reality we have a really strong defense that often times plays off of reputation. Now don't get me wrong we still have a tremendous amount of talent on the defensive side of the ball, but not like in years past. I think once Ray leaves people will stop viewing this defense as dominate, and the offense will start to attacking people for an entire game, and putting up big points. Instead of getting a 13-17 point lead and sitting on it, and trying to allow the defense to close games out.

[mgridda]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1303796632' post='670708']
I'm probably in the minority here, but i strongly believe that once Ray and Ed leave, mainly Ray, the offense will take off to new heights. I actually think our defense is holding our offense back. The reason i say that is because we play offense like we have a great dominate defense on the other side of the ball. When in reality we have a really strong defense that often times plays off of reputation. Now don't get me wrong we still have a tremendous amount of talent on the defensive side of the ball, but not like in years past. I think once Ray leaves people will stop viewing this defense as dominate, and the offense will start to attacking people for an entire game, and putting up big points. Instead of getting a 13-17 point lead and sitting on it, and trying to allow the defense to close games out.
[/quote]

I disagree. The defense is crucial to field position and turnovers which create extra time of possession and opportunities. When Ray leaves Joe Flacco will be the face of the franchise: yes. But, Ed Reed will still be around, Terrell Suggs will still be around, Haloti Ngata will still be around and hopefully Muhammad Wilkerson will still be around >__>...


Personally, I think the absence of players is what hurt Joe the most. We won't get a better offense by losing any one of our playmakers on the team. When we get Jared Gaither healthy and back at LT, then we'll all see. Gaither was the issue with the offense last year, not Cam Cameron, not Joe Flacco. Gaither. Gaither meant Oher went from RT (where he was good) to LT (where he was poor), it meant Yanda moved over to RT (where he was really good) and meant Chris Chester started at RG (where he was poor: almost a bust). It played musical chairs with our entire o-line and the effect is evident in the higher amount of pressures, hurries and sacks Joe saw. It's also evident in Ray Rice's ypc. Like seriously everything falls back on Jared Gaither.

Honestly, it's why we need him to be healthy. I don't know if Carimi, Sherrod or Solder or any other OT are good enough: haven't looked into them enough. I think Carimi would make a good RT. But that pretty much means Gaither is done and we can't focus on our defense with our #1 pick.

Trying to give carries to Rice/McGahee/McClain impedes Joe's progress a little, though. I'd like to see what Joe can do if Rice was injured for a year, or something. If he still has a big year then he'd have proved to a lot of people that he's a #1 QB. It's not like he doesn't throw the ball as much as Big Ben or Tom Brady when they first started. Plus, the Ravens defense has been on a decline since 2006. Hopefully Kruger, Kindle, Kody and #1 2011 NFL Draft pick inject some fresh blood into it.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1303828938' post='670791']
I disagree. The defense is crucial to field position and turnovers which create extra time of possession and opportunities. When Ray leaves Joe Flacco will be the face of the franchise: yes. But, Ed Reed will still be around, Terrell Suggs will still be around, Haloti Ngata will still be around and hopefully Muhammad Wilkerson will still be around >__>...


Personally, I think the absence of players is what hurt Joe the most. We won't get a better offense by losing any one of our playmakers on the team. When we get Jared Gaither healthy and back at LT, then we'll all see. Gaither was the issue with the offense last year, not Cam Cameron, not Joe Flacco. Gaither. Gaither meant Oher went from RT (where he was good) to LT (where he was poor), it meant Yanda moved over to RT (where he was really good) and meant Chris Chester started at RG (where he was poor: almost a bust). It played musical chairs with our entire o-line and the effect is evident in the higher amount of pressures, hurries and sacks Joe saw. It's also evident in Ray Rice's ypc. Like seriously everything falls back on Jared Gaither.

Honestly, it's why we need him to be healthy. I don't know if Carimi, Sherrod or Solder or any other OT are good enough: haven't looked into them enough. I think Carimi would make a good RT. But that pretty much means Gaither is done and we can't focus on our defense with our #1 pick.

Trying to give carries to Rice/McGahee/McClain impedes Joe's progress a little, though. I'd like to see what Joe can do if Rice was injured for a year, or something. If he still has a big year then he'd have proved to a lot of people that he's a #1 QB. It's not like he doesn't throw the ball as much as Big Ben or Tom Brady when they first started. Plus, the Ravens defense has been on a decline since 2006. Hopefully Kruger, Kindle, Kody and #1 2011 NFL Draft pick inject some fresh blood into it.
[/quote]

I didn't say the defense would suck without Ray, if you saw i said we'll still have a tremendous amount of talent on the defensive side of the ball, and i actually think we'll continue to be a top 10 defense without Ray.

What i mean is the mentality of the offense. Think back to the start of the 2009 season. The Ravens looked like one of the best offenses in the NFL at times over the first 6 games. The Ravens averaged 28.4 ppg, Flacco averaged 279 yds, about 2TDs, Flacco averaged 37.5 pass attempts 20.3 completion ppg. Those numbers were putting Flacco on pace for a great season in his second year.

However going into the bye after 6 games we were 3-3 with our season on the line. The coaches decided during the bye week to get back to a more ground and pound style, mistake free offense, and allow our defense to carry a heavy portion of the team.

That style of play actually hurt us against the better teams that year, even the last game against Oak, and in the playoff lost to Indy.

As long as Ray is hear this will always be known as a defense first team and for the most part the coaches will play to that.

I agree with Gaither we missed him a lot, however having Gaither wouldn't have changed the menality of the offense. He would have allowed the offense to execute much better, however they mentality would remain the same. In big games we play close to the vest believing we have a great defense. Instead of putting pressure on teams and keeping your foot on their throats until it's all zeros on the clock.

I just think that'll change once a major defensive guy like Ray leaves. The overall aggressive mentality of the offense.