Top QB List In NFL

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1304335752' post='679672']
No, great players get rings. You're twisting my words. The difference to me between very good and great is winning a championship. So Marino was very good, no doubt. But hardly the best ever. Joe Montana, Brady, etc. are in that elite circle. McNabb is very good. But he's aging, no longer in a system that supports him, and still has never won a Supebowl. Thus, any talk of putting him ahead of Favre and other Superbowl winning quarterbacks is just silly.
I like Vick a lot, but let's wait for him to play more and prove his ability as a consistent passer and runner before we rank him too high.
[/quote]
What if a great player is on a bad team, (like Barry Sanders) because he has not won a ring, he is not great? No logic sorry

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1304316367' post='679631']
Thanks for the laugh man.
[/quote]
Anytime, Ill get mine soon enough.

[berad]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304374619' post='680139']
What if a great player is on a bad team, (like Barry Sanders) because he has not won a ring, he is not great? No logic sorry
[/quote]

Yeah, don't like that argument, either. Great teams earn rings, not just great players. There have been tons of great players to leave the NFL without any jewelery.

[scrock]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1303420526' post='668356']
Haha, I think he meant them ranking "any Cards QB" over Clausen.
[/quote]

i didnt even see that he highlighted that...i forgot all about this topic

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304374769' post='680142']
Anytime, Ill get mine soon enough.
[/quote]

Do you honestly believe those things you wrote?

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1304377701' post='680194']
Do you honestly believe those things you wrote?
[/quote]
Wasnt he one of the "Troy Smith is a baller" guys....if so I think that answers your question.

[lowrider]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1303516596' post='668862']
I think he got ranked high because the team wasnt great before he got there and he made due with a weak WR options...but he didnt its a small sample size, he only played one year and he never won his playoff game.
[/quote]
And the fact Bradford came in with the worst team in the league before and almost took them to a playoff game while being a rookie is pretty impressive. Don't see many rookie qbs doing that. You could say Flacco, Ryan, Big Ben where all exceptions to the rookie qb growing pains, but they all had much better teams than Bradford did. Then again they all played in much better divisions than bradford

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1304378559' post='680205']
Wasnt he one of the "Troy Smith is a baller" guys....if so I think that answers your question.
[/quote]
No he wasn't. Troy smith was alright for what he brought to the team. At this point i would say that he was better than Marc Bulger for us though. Those few trick plays not only made the game fun, but that little wrinkle in the offense made teams game plan against it.

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304374619' post='680139']
What if a great player is on a bad team, (like Barry Sanders) because he has not won a ring, he is not great? No logic sorry
[/quote]


[quote name='berad' timestamp='1304375037' post='680150']
Yeah, don't like that argument, either. Great teams earn rings, not just great players. There have been tons of great players to leave the NFL without any jewelery.
[/quote]

Ok, I will rephrase. Great players on good or better teams get rings. Marino and McNabb were both on teams good enough to support their ability to win a championship. Neither of them did. Neither of them were playing for teams like the Lions or talent devoid teams. If Flacco spends his career here and doesn't win a ring, he'll be considered as good, maybe very good. But not great. Numbers don't mean anything if you can't win in the clutch. That's the difference between very good and great. So both have had good numbers, but I honestly can't consider either of them one of the best of all time. More like one of the best to play within their era.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304413049' post='680415']
No he wasn't. Troy smith was alright for what he brought to the team. At this point i would say that he was better than Marc Bulger for us though. Those few trick plays not only made the game fun, but that little wrinkle in the offense made teams game plan against it.
[/quote]
And we got practice on how to burn timeouts effectively.

Id rather have Bulger as the backup/injury option over T Smith every day of the week!! No question about it!

[3-4ravdef509]

Honestly, I'd enjoy having the Suggs package back now with this Tyrod Taylor. Seeing Flacco go out as Wr....priceless.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1304426978' post='680445']
Honestly, I'd enjoy having the Suggs package back now with this Tyrod Taylor. Seeing Flacco go out as Wr....priceless.
[/quote]
I don't want to be a party pooper here, but I would hate to see this.

#1 Could injure Flacco
#2 Aside from the one play you're referencing, the Suggs Package was a complete waste of time and only caused burned timeout after burned timeout.
#3 Every super bowl winning team of recent (ever, really) has been a pocket passer (please save the remarks about Rodgers and Ben being "scramblers'....they're not, they avoid, but they're not looking to take off) and this is what we have in Flacco.

For the record, though - I will say, from a pure amusement stance, the pass from Smith to Flacco was awesome!

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1304428022' post='680450']
I don't want to be a party pooper here, but I would hate to see this.

#1 Could injure Flacco
#2 Aside from the one play you're referencing, the Suggs Package was a complete waste of time and only caused burned timeout after burned timeout.
#3 Every super bowl winning team of recent (ever, really) has been a pocket passer (please save the remarks about Rodgers and Ben being "scramblers'....they're not, they avoid, but they're not looking to take off) and this is what we have in Flacco.

For the record, though - I will say, from a pure amusement stance, the pass from Smith to Flacco was awesome!
[/quote]

Oh absolutely. I agree. I was just talking from a pure amusement stance, as you said, seeing Flacco catch a sure TD and then fall! lol. I think it'd be useful in certain game situations, like backed up behind the 20 or goal line situations. Definitely not a consistent option, but a wild card to throw in once in a while.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304413049' post='680415']
No he wasn't. Troy smith was alright for what he brought to the team. At this point i would say that he was better than Marc Bulger for us though. Those few trick plays not only made the game fun, but that little wrinkle in the offense made teams game plan against it.
[/quote]
I dont know,Id rather have the ex 2 time Pro Bowler backing up my starting QB than a guy who couldnt throw against the NFC West.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1304438863' post='680542']
I dont know,Id rather have the ex 2 time Pro Bowler backing up my starting QB than a guy who couldnt throw against the NFC West.
[/quote]
Oh let me clarify, I'd rather have Bulger backing up Flacco too, but their is no situation where we can get him on the field. I miss those trick plays they are annoying for the defense.

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304477241' post='681155']
Oh let me clarify, I'd rather have Bulger backing up Flacco too, but their is no situation where we can get him on the field.[b] I miss those trick plays they are annoying for the defense.[/b][/quote]

Here's something we can agree on. Just having it means the other team has to spend time preparing for it, which is to your advantage.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304477241' post='681155']
Oh let me clarify, I'd rather have Bulger backing up Flacco too, but their is no situation where we can get him on the field. I miss those trick plays they are annoying for the defense.
[/quote]
Ya ok that makes sense.

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304316375' post='679632']
He didn't play. Nice try though, game day and practice, two totally different beast.
[/quote]
Vick didn't play [i]much[/i], but you can't use that as one of your arguments when it just isn't true. Vick still got a lot of practice, preseason games etc.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='purple.n.black' timestamp='1304807895' post='683352']
Vick didn't play [i]much[/i], but you can't use that as one of your arguments when it just isn't true. Vick still got a lot of practice, preseason games etc.
[/quote]He played his first year out of jail in a few trick plays, that were awful to say the least. The defense rests your honor.

[berad]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304906832' post='683947']
He played his first year out of jail in a few trick plays, that were awful to say the least. The defense rests your honor.
[/quote]

The receivers and coaches weren't new to him, though, as you claimed. That was my original point.

[scrock]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1304426978' post='680445']
Honestly, I'd enjoy having the Suggs package back now with this Tyrod Taylor. Seeing Flacco go out as Wr....priceless.
[/quote]

The only teams that need to switch up their QBs during games are the teams that dont have a good QB, you don't see Peyton or Tom Brady or Drew Brees being pulled for their backups. Yes, Joe Flacco catching that long pass his rookie year was nice but his job is under center as the starting QB and he is a playmaker.

Tyrod Taylor won't even be the #2 this year, so chances of him doing anything like a 'Suggs' package are slim

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1304922046' post='684022']
The receivers and coaches weren't new to him, though, as you claimed. That was my original point.
[/quote]
How long was he on the team then? 1 and 2 year guys are new to a football team. Stop trying to wiggle out of the discussion. Your wrong! He was new to the team and the players. I would love to see what any other elite QB could do removed from all football for that long. He was new to the coaches, players, and the game of football all together, if you ask me.

[lowrider]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1304428022' post='680450']
I don't want to be a party pooper here, but I would hate to see this.

#1 Could injure Flacco
#2 Aside from the one play you're referencing, the Suggs Package was a complete waste of time and only caused burned timeout after burned timeout.
#3 Every super bowl winning team of recent (ever, really) has been a pocket passer (please save the remarks about Rodgers and Ben being "scramblers'....they're not, they avoid, but they're not looking to take off) and this is what we have in Flacco.

For the record, though - I will say, from a pure amusement stance, the pass from Smith to Flacco was awesome!
[/quote]
You made every point I was going to make. Sometimes I wonder if people really watch games. Because the Suggs package never worked outside the catch Flacco had. It would always be Smith either calling a timeout or running straight into the line for no gain.

[63bru]

[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1305036046' post='684492']
You made every point I was going to make. Sometimes I wonder if people really watch games. Because the Suggs package never worked outside the catch Flacco had. It would always be Smith either calling a timeout or running straight into the line for no gain.
[/quote]
I remember it working more than that, though not necessarily for big plays. I think it served a bigger purpose though than creating big plays. Every time I remember the Suggs package was in a game where we were playing an inferior opponent that was giving us trouble. It seemed like we would use the Suggs package, and regardless of the result, it would energize the offense, and the base offense would start to click. Maybe I'm remembering things wrong, but I think it serves to build a little excitement on the sideline. That's big, regardless of whether it results in a big play for us or just a 2 yard gain.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='63bru' timestamp='1305040253' post='684504']
I remember it working more than that, though not necessarily for big plays. I think it served a bigger purpose though than creating big plays. Every time I remember the Suggs package was in a game where we were playing an inferior opponent that was giving us trouble. It seemed like we would use the Suggs package, and regardless of the result, it would energize the offense, and the base offense would start to click. Maybe I'm remembering things wrong, but I think it serves to build a little excitement on the sideline. That's big, regardless of whether it results in a big play for us or just a 2 yard gain.
[/quote]

It may get some players excited but I think you're seriously exaggerating the impact the Suggs Package had. Outside of the pass to Joe and a nice catch and run by Troy against the Jaguars, there wasn't a single big play that came about because of it.

All one needs to do is take a look at Troy's stats from the '08 season. His 43-yard completion to Joe aside, all of his other completions came in garbage time after Joe had been pulled from the game. He ran the ball a total of 9 times for 24 yards, the longest run being 8 yards and only one of those runs resulting in a first down. To me, those stats don't suggest much energizing went on.

I know I'm not the only one who remembers a few timeouts being wasted when the team tried to run the Suggs Package either.

[berad]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1305033641' post='684476']
How long was he on the team then? 1 and 2 year guys are new to a football team. Stop trying to wiggle out of the discussion. Your wrong! He was new to the team and the players. I would love to see what any other elite QB could do removed from all football for that long. He was new to the coaches, players, and the game of football all together, if you ask me.
[/quote]

Wrong about what? He wasn't new in 2010. He had spent an entire season with these same coaches and players. I don't even know why you're making these excuses for him, he had a good season. Still, he's not a top 2 QB.

[mgridda]

My list is pretty close to yours:

1. P. Manning
2. Brady
3. Rodgers
4. Brees
5. Rivers
6. Roethlisberger
-- DROP OFF --
7. Flacco
8. Vick
9. Ryan
10. Freeman
11. E. Manning
12. Romo
13. Schaub
-- DROP OFF --
14. Orton
15. Garrard
16. Bradford
17. Sanchez
18. Cassel
19. Kitna
20. Campbell
21. Stafford
22. Cutler
23. Hasselbeck
24. Ryan Fitzpatrick
25. Donavon McNabb
26. Carson Palmer
27. Shaun Hill
28. Kerry Collins
29. Colt McCoy
30. Vince Young
31. Brett Favre
32. Alex Smith
33. Chad Henne
34. Derek Anderson
35. Jimmy Clausen

[flynismo]

After the year Brady just had, I dont see how anyone else can be ranked #1.

[mgridda]

Brady threw many short passes in almost a WCO where his primary duty was finding the open man and getting him the ball. He did that very well and is the #2 QB in the NFL, but he didn't have to deal with having as terrible an offensive line as Manning who only had 1 good player (Jeff Saturday) on that entire o-line and he didn't have to deal with losing Dallas Clark.

When Dallas got injured, Jacob Tamme led all receivers in targets afterwards. Manning had to make a lot of difficult throws, had worse receivers and had much less time in the pocket and got hurried and pressured multiple times more than Brady.

Peyton Manning is the best QB in the league.

[63bru]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1305043674' post='684532']
It may get some players excited but I think you're seriously exaggerating the impact the Suggs Package had. Outside of the pass to Joe and a nice catch and run by Troy against the Jaguars, there wasn't a single big play that came about because of it.

All one needs to do is take a look at Troy's stats from the '08 season. His 43-yard completion to Joe aside, all of his other completions came in garbage time after Joe had been pulled from the game. He ran the ball a total of 9 times for 24 yards, the longest run being 8 yards and only one of those runs resulting in a first down. To me, those stats don't suggest much energizing went on.
[b]
I know I'm not the only one who remembers a few timeouts being wasted when the team tried to run the Suggs Package either.[/b]
[/quote]
Wasting timeouts is kind of what we did that year. At any rate, I still think that the Suggs package is a nice way to gather some excitement when we're playing lethargic against an inferior opponent. I wouldn't recommend using it against a good opponent or a good defense, but I think it has its place in the playbook.